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Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 2 post(s) |
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Oveur
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Posted - 2005.11.09 09:35:00 -
[31]
Originally by: ArchenTheGreat
Originally by: Oveur Lets not go overboard and do something that potentially hurts or annoys thousands of people which it's not supposed to affect. Forcing players out of an NPC corp would do exactly that.
Rethink this so the action would only affect people that macro-mine, that's the real difficult part.
Did you consider using tools such as PunkBuster?
PunkBuster would help, if everyone was modifying the client. Most people are using a very simple mouse macro.
Senior Producer EVE Online
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Boonaki
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Posted - 2005.11.09 10:06:00 -
[32]
How about player driven volenteers such as ISD to look into macro-miners. Anyone with a cov ops could warp in undected and check it out. It's pretty easy to spot a macro miner operation. Train the volenteers on how to spot them, maybe give them a few tools that couldn't be abused. Report findings to the over worked GM's, they do a 2 minute investigation vs 30+ minutes and ban their accounts, block their IP (not 100% effective but hey) and ban their credit card.
Fear the Ibis of doom. |
Boonaki
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Posted - 2005.11.09 10:07:00 -
[33]
We need a player driven anti-macro miner channel. Sponsored by CCP so people actually use it. Fear the Ibis of doom. |
ArchenTheGreat
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Posted - 2005.11.09 11:02:00 -
[34]
Edited by: ArchenTheGreat on 09/11/2005 11:03:26
Originally by: Oveur
Originally by: ArchenTheGreat
Originally by: Oveur Lets not go overboard and do something that potentially hurts or annoys thousands of people which it's not supposed to affect. Forcing players out of an NPC corp would do exactly that.
Rethink this so the action would only affect people that macro-mine, that's the real difficult part.
Did you consider using tools such as PunkBuster?
PunkBuster would help, if everyone was modifying the client. Most people are using a very simple mouse macro.
As far as I know PunkBuster checks system memory for most common makro programs too. So it fails only when someone uses program not known to PunkBuster authors.
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Phyo
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Posted - 2005.11.13 22:28:00 -
[35]
This idea should not be on page 5, so bumped
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Mas Sacre
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Posted - 2005.11.14 06:09:00 -
[36]
imo they should hunt down all macro-******* and ban them...they bring eve in disbalance!! ****faces who are too lazy to play...don't play!!!!
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TotensBurntCorpse
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Posted - 2005.11.14 12:53:00 -
[37]
I have another suggestion...
Why not limit trial accounts to Frigates only. No industrials, no retrievers (yes i have seen a macro group this weekend in retrievers, and yes they were petitioned), no cruisers.
its a TRIAL not a full game go. sure it limits what can be done but i have seem MANY macros flying ospreys within the trial period.
MAKE MACROING WITH TRIALS UNPROFITABLE. Ie make the macroers PAY TO PLAY !!!!
Now again I have seen macros in everything from industrials, to frigs, to cruisers, to barges to battleships.
How much are we really hurting players if they get booted from the NPC corps after a set time or set number of skill points.
I for one think the War Dec NPC corp idea is perfect.
1) limit the trial account to frigates 2) make the time/sps NPC corp to get booted to 3) limit the trial account to 7 days (ie you have to remake the character every 7 days to continue your "trial" aka macro freebie account) 4) make a nuisince rat for highest security space that SPECIFIALLY interferes with mining (an energy vampire or neutrializer rat) TotensBurntCorpse Likes EVE, Starfleet Command Series, Earth & Beyond, Anything Battlefield, MOHAA, Call of Duty.
Dislikes Not much. |
Galifardeua
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Posted - 2005.11.14 12:58:00 -
[38]
Originally by: TotensBurntCorpse 3) limit the trial account to 7 days (ie you have to remake the character every 7 days to continue your "trial" aka macro freebie account)
This would stop people from joining. A week is too little fo some people to try the game.
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FireFoxx80
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Posted - 2005.11.14 15:16:00 -
[39]
Could try limiting what trial accounts could do, kinda like lock them into a permanent tutorial or something.
Though as a trial user, this would **** me off.
23? # Missile Tool # ex: P-TMC : USAC |
Dray
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Posted - 2005.11.14 15:39:00 -
[40]
Sooner or later this was always going to be a problem, what i would like to know without naming characters or corps, just how many have been banned, the impression im getting is a few bans but lots of petitions.
Bottom line for me is that you knew that this would happen and seem to have let to much time go by with to little preperation.
Any comments from CCP on this?
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Qinoly
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Posted - 2005.11.14 16:08:00 -
[41]
Since yesterday afternoon around 16.00 hours gametime, a group of ~25 macro'ers has been emptying belts in :
Adia Shabura Nahdoman Nifshed
And probably other systems while I was asleep.
I woke up, logged on.. Surprise.. they are still at it. Number of petitions from me : THREE What I heard from other ppl petitioning : another 10 filed a report.
Oveur, they are still at it. Why doesn't a GM respond to this. Its outrageous.
Give the players the means to take this on, a solution was given. Ask the player base what they think about that idea.
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TheRev
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Posted - 2005.11.14 16:21:00 -
[42]
I see nothing at all wrong with Qinoly's initial idea.Noobiecorps are used more as hiding places for those with something to fear (be it from scamming,ore-thievery,war,macro-mining etc) than they are used for new players to learn the ropes.
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Nyphur
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Posted - 2005.11.14 16:40:00 -
[43]
Edited by: Nyphur on 14/11/2005 16:48:32
Originally by: Oveur PunkBuster would help, if everyone was modifying the client. Most people are using a very simple mouse macro.
Can Eve not distinguish between genuine mouse movement and something inserted into the mousebuffer? Isn't there some way to gain top level access to the mousebuffer or something?
I've left a few ideas strewn about the boards. Here they are: http://oldforums.eveonline.com/?a=topic&threadID=247638&page=1#15 - That would probably be the easiest to implement but if the ore were distinguishable from the rubbish rock too easilly, say by contrast or colour, it would be possible to build a program to do it. I think the best option is to keep the veins a similar colour to the normal rock such that the variation in hue and colour across the normal rock and the ore overlap (that way a macro would be confused and mine a lot of normal crap) but they would be instantly recognisable to players since the veins would follow smaller lines. A computer can't readilly detect a vein in rock without using pattern-matching, which isn't viable for macroing in a game since it's incredibly difficult to implement and get right, it's very CPU intensive and the pattern can be tweaked now and then just to screw over anyone who managed to implement it properly. An option to pick a different area of rock would also help.
Also, some crazy ideas here: http://oldforums.eveonline.com/?a=topic&threadID=246448&page=1#16 - Worth a read, I suppose.
Anything that makes macroing no longer viable is the key. The trick is to make mining more interactive and enjoyable at the same time. Either system would help that but I'm very much in favour of my first idea up there with the veins in the rock. I do plan to make my own MMO (a fantasy based one) and that will definitely be how I'll be implementing mining. Eve would do well to consider it.
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BIRDofPREY
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Posted - 2005.11.15 03:06:00 -
[44]
1) this needs a bump..
2) Yesterday, we ID'd a Macro Miner in Shabura. I was amazed when a dozen players from all over domain came running to "exercise some frontier justice" on this creep.
I was so plainly obvious that they were macro mining. 5 haulers and 5 mining barges on charcters created within hours of each other. Then they would not respond to convo's or didn't speak english.
I sat next to three Omens today, piloted by characters less than 4 days old. All of them were grinding away. I moved up in a HAC, jettisons a single round of hybrid ammo and moved all the ore from their jet can to mine. No response at all... A real player would have been sreaming bloody murder in the local... This guy just kept filling up his jet can, not even noticing me...
I destroyed the jet can I created and sent 20k of pyro to the Gods of EVE...
If CCP is not careful, EVE is going to go the way of UO... nothing but bots running around ruining the game. I'll do everything I can to prevent this, as I have above. I would think even a warning to the offending players from the right person would have some effect...
Your 650mm Artillery Cannon I perfectly strikes Serpentis Guard, wrecking for 340.0 damage |
Lady Abaris
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Posted - 2005.11.15 13:10:00 -
[45]
How about removing the ability to pilot barges from pilots in newb on npc corps? I know this would effect some genuine players so probably won't pass Oveurs test but worth considering for the greater good I think. |
Sethon
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Posted - 2005.11.15 13:32:00 -
[46]
The problem with bouncing people from the NAP corp is that you'll get some wanna-be pirates coming alone, and war decing because "They are macro-miners" When they may have no proof at all.
A thought. Why not, rather than NPC corps, have joining a corporation part of your character creation. Corps will have to expound on the Description more, and corps can be organized by category of what they do. A new character then reads the description after finding the corp under the organized list, and decides...
THoughts anyone?
Seth |
10 Bears
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Posted - 2005.11.15 13:36:00 -
[47]
Originally by: Sethon The problem with bouncing people from the NAP corp is that you'll get some wanna-be pirates coming alone, and war decing because "They are macro-miners" When they may have no proof at all.
A thought. Why not, rather than NPC corps, have joining a corporation part of your character creation. Corps will have to expound on the Description more, and corps can be organized by category of what they do. A new character then reads the description after finding the corp under the organized list, and decides...
THoughts anyone?
Seth
Bleech!
Think of your corp over run with alts, greifer, thieves, and spies...
And what happens to the character when you give them the boot...
Your 280mm Howitzer Artillery II perfectly strikes Serpentis Defender, wrecking for 230.4 damage. |
Butter Dog
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Posted - 2005.11.15 13:42:00 -
[48]
I do agree with the idea of entering a short code, or PIN, whenever you jettison a can. It would take 2 seconds.
An image comes up on screen, asking you to copy the 'security number' for your jetcan. You enter this 4 digit number, it takes 1 second, and your can pops out.
These anti-macro tactics are already used on many websites, as I'm sure we are all aware.
This will stop macrominers dead in their tracks, or at most limit them to 1 hour of mining at a time. It will also not impact on other players at all, unless you consider taking two seconds to enter a 4-digit code too much of a hassle. I don't. Two seconds per jetcan? No problem.
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Captain Burgers
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Posted - 2005.11.15 16:30:00 -
[49]
Originally by: Qinoly
9 barges, 3 indy's, ferox and moa Stripping whole systems.
That's not a macro mine, that's a well organized corp mine.
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Captain Burgers
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Posted - 2005.11.15 16:37:00 -
[50]
how about if you've pulled in a set ammount of ore in a set time frame (say at 50,000 ore units for an hour) then a window pops up asking you to put in the characters depicted in an image. If done, you're flagged as accomplishing that and it's not done for say another 2 hours.
And to prevent the macro'er from just docking, make it for the hour, not for a constant hour in a belt...
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Qinoly
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Posted - 2005.11.16 02:25:00 -
[51]
Quote: That's not a macro mine, that's a well organized corp mine.
Ye sure, and if you bounce them around with a bumpageddon, they don't complain. If you empty their cans into your own can, they don't complain. If you convo them, you don't get an answer ever.
Well organised eh ?
I know perfectly well how a bigger mining op is run. Those were operated by code.
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Transom
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Posted - 2005.11.16 02:55:00 -
[52]
Can somebody explain how eight 3 day old characters, all created at same time, living in same npc corp, can mine in Omen cruisers? I mean is it even possible to be in a cruiser in 3 days? So if a trial account is 14 days that gives this tribe 11 days of cruiser mining?
On the other hand I'm pretty sure the barge/ferox/mark v crew working the region is also macroing, I can only guess E-bay is to blame. As Quin says who would sit in their barge and not complain when you bump them around and thieve/blow up their ore?
I used to hate ore thieves and now I'm one of them. I feel like Robin Hood when I do it. I took some ore from a can and the guy said no. That was it. Nothing else. Took all his ore from all the belts he was working. He moved on.
We do have tools right now. Ore thieving. Bump and grind. Pinning ships to rocks so rats can kill them. None of it is friendly nor very effective. I don't think these help make eve a better place, although we are building a community of macro busters in domain so maybe that is good.
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Transom
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Posted - 2005.11.16 03:11:00 -
[53]
Edited by: Transom on 16/11/2005 03:13:40 Edited by: Transom on 16/11/2005 03:13:15 hahahahaha pin them poke them bump them theive them hahaha
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Transom
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Posted - 2005.11.16 03:15:00 -
[54]
Sorry Oveur but I have to disagree.
What better way to make the miners/industrials make friends with pvpers than to force the miners and builders into real corps? Doesn't that build the community? If a miner corp teams up with a PvP corp what sort of pirates are going after them? Organized ones, not sociopath middle schoolers. Also, btw, some of those pirate corps have npc miners suppling them too...
I am not sure when the NPC boot should come but come it should. Do I hear 3 months or 5 mil sp?
I also like the idea that trial accounts be limited to frigs. 3 day old players mining in cruisers just can't be possible. That said I would note I was a pretty capable miner with my 2 miner II merlin back when I was training learning skills. Maybe no tech 2 equipment should be used by trial players either.
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sonofollo
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Posted - 2005.11.16 03:34:00 -
[55]
a) limit trial accoutns to frigates b) allow players to remain in a newbie corp for 1 month .... after which time each additional month they play eve up to 6 months where it peters out add a 15% tax on missions and rat kills
2nd month 15% corp tax 3rd month 30% corp tax 4th month 45% corp tax 5th month 60% corp tax 6th month 75% corp tax
Now for players being kicked out of established corps or simply leaving for another corp the same above could apply this would force all players into at least training level 1 of corparation skills and creating their own corp (im sure a lot of little 1 man corps could be easy enough)
Heck even alt spys and alt scouts could be put into another corp i mean it only costs 1.5 million to create a corp and after that its basically free if u dont have any offices (players can more than afford that after 1 month but the NPC tax wouldnt start to bite until after 3 months)
Just some ideas to play with and then een if the MMs had their own corp a war dec could be forthcoming
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TotensBurntCorpse
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Posted - 2005.11.17 22:14:00 -
[56]
Originally by: Galifardeua
Originally by: TotensBurntCorpse 3) limit the trial account to 7 days (ie you have to remake the character every 7 days to continue your "trial" aka macro freebie account)
This would stop people from joining. A week is too little fo some people to try the game.
I would disagree as most ppl that i run into on the noob channel where one of my characters is located finds for the most part players love or hate eve within 2-3 days.
I have a character in a noob corp since it was created which is almost a year now. This character is not an alt but an account that i play daily on one of my computers, so its not a random view i have found this since the character was created.
14 days is when ppl whine about actually having to PAY to PLAY. Well within 7 days they know if they want to continue or not. Actually within the 7 days they realize that they have screwed up thier attributes to the point of trashing the character and remaking them against all the advice myself and others give them in the noob channel. TotensBurntCorpse Likes EVE, Starfleet Command Series, Earth & Beyond, Anything Battlefield, MOHAA, Call of Duty.
Dislikes Not much. |
TotensBurntCorpse
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Posted - 2005.11.17 22:18:00 -
[57]
Originally by: Captain Burgers
Originally by: Qinoly
9 barges, 3 indy's, ferox and moa Stripping whole systems.
That's not a macro mine, that's a well organized corp mine.
No not when all the "tells" highlight them as macros. Dont forget macroing doesnt mean all ships are macros, i mean there is no macro for hauling that i am aware of, and in less than 0.9 u need someone to fly cap. TotensBurntCorpse Likes EVE, Starfleet Command Series, Earth & Beyond, Anything Battlefield, MOHAA, Call of Duty.
Dislikes Not much. |
Binary Mind
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Posted - 2005.11.18 12:25:00 -
[58]
Edited by: Binary Mind on 18/11/2005 12:26:01 perhaps banning isn't enough to make macro users fear...
can't you add "and we'll come to you and brake your legs" to the EULA?
that's free holidays for you CCP guys
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Maltus
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Posted - 2005.11.19 05:47:00 -
[59]
What really burns me is that after over a year of not playing macro miners is still an issue when the solution is very simple and I'll explain how to get around it. Remove the option to play in window mode and as soon as the play hits alt tab to switch to another program force a kill on the process in this case eve.exe This will prevent them from creating the macros. The only thing these macroers are doing is making it very hard for new people to start out. It's taking alot of searching for ore these days I go to one belt and it's not just one type of ore gone but all the ore is gone then I go to another belt and it's gone. So I mustered up about 1 mil got me destroyer with little skills and went to a .7 system well I was lucky to even get to mine 1st all those dam secure containers next the rats keep pestering me well obviously they are just to strong I'm setup to mine not fight. Well the only thing these macro miners are doing is in the end hurting new potential players. Trust me it's very discouraging to only be able to make about 100k in about 1hr because the greedy need to cheat.
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Aeaus
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Posted - 2005.11.19 07:11:00 -
[60]
Right, and for people like me that run two accounts on one machine (two monitors) and do other work while playing eve; well I'd be screwed then, no?
Best Solution: Dedicated anti-macro GM group. Dedicated macro petition category. Programming anti-macro programs are a waste of time; a GM can do the job much more effectively.
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