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Alexander McKeon
Ekchuah's Shrine Comporium Kill It With Fire
10
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Posted - 2013.06.07 11:18:00 -
[1] - Quote
After our corp recently did a round of capital escalations to finish the current crop of sites, we got our hacking ships to crack some radar cans and get loot out. The hacking mini-game, even for those in the corp with level V skills & T2 mods was a major pain; we had six people hacking the cans at two sites, and that bit of can-cracking took longer than fully clearing six sites, including the sub-battleship junk. When K-space hacking sites have a handful of cans per site, and wormhole ones have upwards of twenty, the additional time sink caused by having to play the minigame is just silly. It would have been more ISK-efficient to hop in RR tengus and run a site in our static & buy the loot required for T3 production.
Lastly, what is up with carbon, hydrogen batteries & other pointless wastes of volume / time? We shouldn't have to bother with that, just give us the old radar can loot where everything at least had a use. |
Borlag Crendraven
Future Corps Sleeper Social Club
364
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Posted - 2013.06.07 11:20:00 -
[2] - Quote
Just use cargo scanners to see which cans are worthwile, you can skip all the junk that way. |
Alexander McKeon
Ekchuah's Shrine Comporium Kill It With Fire
10
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Posted - 2013.06.07 12:01:00 -
[3] - Quote
Oh believe me, we've already retro-fitted all our ships with cargo scanners to avoid the crap, but my point is that the crap shouldn't be there in the first place, and the greatly increased time per can to crack it is rather irritating. Catching the scattered bits & bobs wasn't bad though with a group. |
Terrorfrodo
Renegade Hobbits for Mordor
487
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Posted - 2013.06.07 13:31:00 -
[4] - Quote
They didn't reduce the number of cans? Meh! . |
MisterAl tt1
Pretenders Inc W-Space
110
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Posted - 2013.06.07 13:31:00 -
[5] - Quote
Spent one and a half hour to make a data site from the beginning to the end (WH C6). Which is somewhat between 2 to 3 times longer then it used to need. That game can be fine in null or high, with no rats there. But in wormholes we need to first clear the site, that means we have a fleet (I don't count octopus-farming).
For us it looked like after the site is cleared, 3 "hackers" go "playing", each followed by a group of 3 to be able to catch all the containers. As a result we cannot go to farm next site, and most of the fleet have to either sit under FF or wait for the magical "CATCH IT!" command. Not really worth the time, nor it is interesting to just sit and wait. |
Mr Kidd
Center for Advanced Studies Gallente Federation
1155
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Posted - 2013.06.07 15:00:00 -
[6] - Quote
Can't say I didn't see this coming... HTFU!...for the children! |
Tinu Moorhsum
Random Events
212
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Posted - 2013.06.07 15:34:00 -
[7] - Quote
Alexander McKeon wrote:After our corp recently did a round of capital escalations to finish the current crop of sites,
Er... don't run them then?
In the higher level wormholes the isk is already insane. It seems a little odd to be moaning about this.
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Faye Fantastic
NorCorp Enterprise No Holes Barred
5
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Posted - 2013.06.07 17:03:00 -
[8] - Quote
Tinu Moorhsum wrote:
Er... don't run them then?
In the higher level wormholes the isk is already insane. It seems a little odd to be moaning about this.
I think (and hope) the idea behind this was to make the whole hacking / analyzing more engaging rather than having a module cycle.
So they made a clickfest instead (yay for PI anno 2011). So I tried it; the first time it was cool. It was new and fresh. 2nd time.. well ok. 3rd time I got annoyed with it. I looked at my overview.. 12 cans to go. Now I am not saying it was especially interesting before, but now it is a tedious clickfest that doesnt require any more brain actictiy than before.
I could maybe accept it if we're talking 5-ish cans / site (like k-space) but having to do 10-15? on several sites? That just aint that much fun.
And for someone engaged in the T3 production being forced into this? Well, let's just say this isn't my idea of fun and engaging.
That is my opinion anyways. (I know others who think it is the greatest invention since the internet, and peace be with them. I am happy they got what they wanted, it is just not for me) |
Chris Winter
Zephyr Corp V.A.S.T.
125
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Posted - 2013.06.07 17:18:00 -
[9] - Quote
If I wanted to play a roguelike, I'd go download and play a roguelike.
If I wanted to quickly click on things flying past me, I'd pull out a phone or tablet for some casual twitch gaming.
I don't want to do either of those things. I want to play internet spaceships. |
Kalel Nimrott
EG CORP Mass Overload
297
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Posted - 2013.06.07 18:03:00 -
[10] - Quote
This system just f@cked with us solo ninja farmers. Job well done. But I cant complain, I only farmed some days a week to pay for my two accounts and ships. But its cool as long as I can adapt to this. |
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Uejene
Aries Group Pride Before Fall
0
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Posted - 2013.06.07 18:39:00 -
[11] - Quote
Last night my Alliance ran 2 Data Sites. I knew that it was going to be a pain to hack all the cans but we did it anyways on the first Data Site. Hour later all 20 cans were hacked and looted. And we moved on to hack second Data Site. We were stoked that we got a Talacon Battleship Wreck to salvage (Where you get t3 Hull prints). Talacon Battleship Wrecks is normally big money because we use for t3 production. When we went to salvage wreck salvaging did not work on it we had to analyze it to open. I analyzed the wreck and we got nothing but trash like carbon. In a c5 where are we suppose to get hull prints now? |
Kalel Nimrott
EG CORP Mass Overload
298
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Posted - 2013.06.07 19:46:00 -
[12] - Quote
Kalel Nimrott wrote:This system just f@cked with us solo ninja farmers. Job well done. But I cant complain, I only farmed some days a week to pay for my two accounts and ships. But its cool as long as I can adapt to this.
I would also like to add to this that day trippers are f@ck if they go alone and not multibox a little more than they do now. Nice! |
D'Angelo Barksdale
He's got a pineapple on his head
4
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Posted - 2013.06.08 07:42:00 -
[13] - Quote
Kalel Nimrott wrote:Kalel Nimrott wrote:This system just f@cked with us solo ninja farmers. Job well done. But I cant complain, I only farmed some days a week to pay for my two accounts and ships. But its cool as long as I can adapt to this. I would also like to add to this that day trippers are f@ck if they go alone and not multibox a little more than they do now. Nice!
ninja farming is bad mkay! |
Kalel Nimrott
EG CORP Mass Overload
298
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Posted - 2013.06.08 10:28:00 -
[14] - Quote
And after I spent two hours in a relic site I just figured out how to do them.... in a falcon with no specialized rigs and archeology to level 4. Back? |
Godfrey Silvarna
Frozen Dawn Inc Arctic Light
80
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Posted - 2013.06.08 12:31:00 -
[15] - Quote
Uejene wrote:Last night my Alliance ran 2 Data Sites. I knew that it was going to be a pain to hack all the cans but we did it anyways on the first Data Site. Hour later all 20 cans were hacked and looted. And we moved on to hack second Data Site. We were stoked that we got a Talacon Battleship Wreck to salvage (Where you get t3 Hull prints). Talacon Battleship Wrecks is normally big money because we use for t3 production. When we went to salvage wreck salvaging did not work on it we had to analyze it to open. I analyzed the wreck and we got nothing but trash like carbon. In a c5 where are we suppose to get hull prints now? Well, this is interesting.
Do any others have similar observations? |
Resilan Bearcat
Fighting Carebears
8
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Posted - 2013.06.08 12:46:00 -
[16] - Quote
We ran a relic site in a C5 last night. It took us 10-15 minutes to escalate the site and kill everything but the trigger in the first wave. At that point, we brought in a falcon to jam the trigger and a hacker to hack the cans and 2 additional looters to grab the spew containers.
It took almost an hour to hack all 10 cans in the site and the total reward from the cans was just over 350M ISK. The general consensus was that this was an extremely boring hour for everyone except maybe the hacker. We had no way of following his progress in the game until he would announce the spew was coming. Bottom line, the hacking was not worth the effort even for a group that does T3 production.
The current hacking game is a single player mini-game. The design concept of spewing containers to encourage and promote cooperation is a very poor concept. If you want to encourage cooperation, make the hacking game support multiple players. There is nothing engaging or rewarding about sitting next to a can waiting for containers to come flying out.
Given the current design of the hacking game, sleepers should be removed from data and relic sites in wormholes. The loot reward should be adjusted to reflect that it is intended for 1-2 players instead of groups.
Question: We ran the Forgotten Core Data Field which does not have the mechanic where sleepers spawn after the 2nd or 3rd container is hacked. Does anyone know if that mechanic still exist? If so, that is absolutely stupid as you will lose whatever was in that container when the sleepers spawn. |
Kalel Nimrott
EG CORP Mass Overload
298
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Posted - 2013.06.08 13:40:00 -
[17] - Quote
Resilan Bearcat wrote:We ran a relic site in a C5 last night. It took us 10-15 minutes to escalate the site and kill everything but the trigger in the first wave. At that point, we brought in a falcon to jam the trigger and a hacker to hack the cans and 2 additional looters to grab the spew containers.
It took almost an hour to hack all 10 cans in the site and the total reward from the cans was just over 350M ISK. The general consensus was that this was an extremely boring hour for everyone except maybe the hacker. We had no way of following his progress in the game until he would announce the spew was coming. Bottom line, the hacking was not worth the effort even for a group that does T3 production.
The current hacking game is a single player mini-game. The design concept of spewing containers to encourage and promote cooperation is a very poor concept. If you want to encourage cooperation, make the hacking game support multiple players. There is nothing engaging or rewarding about sitting next to a can waiting for containers to come flying out.
Given the current design of the hacking game, sleepers should be removed from data and relic sites in wormholes. The loot reward should be adjusted to reflect that it is intended for 1-2 players instead of groups.
Question: We ran the Forgotten Core Data Field which does not have the mechanic where sleepers spawn after the 2nd or 3rd container is hacked. Does anyone know if that mechanic still exist? If so, that is absolutely stupid as you will lose whatever was in that container when the sleepers spawn.
Dont do that, please. Keep that in empire. |
Nykr
The Last Call.
9
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Posted - 2013.06.08 17:03:00 -
[18] - Quote
Alexander McKeon wrote: It would have been more ISK-efficient to hop in RR tengus and run a site in our static & buy the loot required for T3 production.
And then here everyone does that. There is no supply and a lot more damand then before. Price skyrockets and it is suddenly worth doing it. Now everyone starts hacking again and supply goes up. And demand goes down. This will even out at a point where there is enough people that find it worthwile to run the sites. And there are enough buyers for the specific price.
And suddenly the economy has adapted, like magic. |
Svodola Darkfury
Heaven's End League of Infamy
192
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Posted - 2013.06.08 20:31:00 -
[19] - Quote
Godfrey Silvarna wrote:Uejene wrote:Last night my Alliance ran 2 Data Sites. I knew that it was going to be a pain to hack all the cans but we did it anyways on the first Data Site. Hour later all 20 cans were hacked and looted. And we moved on to hack second Data Site. We were stoked that we got a Talacon Battleship Wreck to salvage (Where you get t3 Hull prints). Talacon Battleship Wrecks is normally big money because we use for t3 production. When we went to salvage wreck salvaging did not work on it we had to analyze it to open. I analyzed the wreck and we got nothing but trash like carbon. In a c5 where are we suppose to get hull prints now? Well, this is interesting. Do any others have similar observations?
They drop from the cans. I addressed this question a couple weeks ago and we actually received a Dev response about it.
To the above post: that's like saying the drone poo nerf made mining more interesting. It made mining more PROFITABLE, perhaps, but definitely not more interesting. This is first and foremost a GAME, it's not supposed to be horribly tedious. Farming is one thing, trying to hack ONE site and taking an hour and a half is ridiculous.
Svo. CEO of Heaven's End; Seller of Wormholes. |
Mr Kidd
Center for Advanced Studies Gallente Federation
1159
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Posted - 2013.06.09 03:41:00 -
[20] - Quote
Nykr wrote:Alexander McKeon wrote: It would have been more ISK-efficient to hop in RR tengus and run a site in our static & buy the loot required for T3 production.
And then here everyone does that. There is no supply and a lot more damand then before. Price skyrockets and it is suddenly worth doing it. Now everyone starts hacking again and supply goes up. And demand goes down. This will even out at a point where there is enough people that find it worthwile to run the sites. And there are enough buyers for the specific price. And suddenly the economy has adapted, like magic.
In a perfect economy, yes.
But this Eve. It's neither perfect nor real. Way too many players undercut the worth of their own time considering data/relic/sleeper loot "free". Otherwise, you wouldn't have a subsystem set for a particular T3 hull requiring you to produce the one profitable subsystem in the set at a loss when you factor in failure to reverse engineer and uncertainty of which subsystem bpc you'll produce. Typically, you'll have one maybe two subsystems in a set that's profitable only offset by the other two that aren't profitable. There are many examples in T3 production where a subsystem is cheaper to buy than the cost of the components to produce it. That's not even considering time and hassle.
So, please, tell us again how crap loot in data/relic sites are going to be worth doing?
You have to realize that many of these guys that have run data/relic sites are living in c5 territory. For the effort and manpower they're going to be better off running anoms. Data/Relic sites will never be worth the effort in the current state unless everyone here is willing and able to pay essentially the same price for a T3 as they would a Vindicator. T3's are soon to be nerfed. My bet is we're looking at the end of T3's as we know it and this is CCP's introduction to such a concept. HTFU!...for the children! |
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Ferna Akai
Delete Inc. Enigma Project
2
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Posted - 2013.06.10 03:47:00 -
[21] - Quote
We have similar troubles with the new hacking.
The Minigame is TO Random based, Better ship/skill/mods let you hack more effective but not faster. Also why have the loot eject?? This makes that we have to change alot of things in the way things role. With result that T3 prices will increase. I'm not against mixing the hacking up. But the Hacking game has to be balanced to it's rewards in my Opinion.
One last note on the ejection of the loot, once your invertory is full you can't collect any more and the loot goes Poof. This really annoys me! As the covert ops get bonussed your cargo bay is rather small. Combine that with the change to the talocan containers you waste ISK easily.
Also why did the requirements for the talocan containers change? As they used to be salvaging which made sence. A broken battleship, probably best to Salvage it right?
I think in a good attempt to create something fun, CCP created quite an annoyance for WH dwellers and explorers. |
Sandslinger
NorCorp Enterprise No Holes Barred
88
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Posted - 2013.06.10 20:11:00 -
[22] - Quote
Faye Fantastic wrote:Tinu Moorhsum wrote:
Er... don't run them then?
In the higher level wormholes the isk is already insane. It seems a little odd to be moaning about this.
I think (and hope) the idea behind this was to make the whole hacking / analyzing more engaging rather than having a module cycle. So they made a clickfest instead (yay for PI anno 2011). So I tried it; the first time it was cool. It was new and fresh. 2nd time.. well ok. 3rd time I got annoyed with it. I looked at my overview.. 12 cans to go. Now I am not saying it was especially interesting before, but now it is a tedious clickfest that doesnt require any more brain actictiy than before. I could maybe accept it if we're talking 5-ish cans / site (like k-space) but having to do 10-15? on several sites? That just aint that much fun. And for someone engaged in the T3 production being forced into this? Well, let's just say this isn't my idea of fun and engaging. That is my opinion anyways. (I know others who think it is the greatest invention since the internet, and peace be with them. I am happy they got what they wanted, it is just not for me)
This about sums it up, any minigame regardless of how much fun it is in the beginning just becomes a mindless incredibly booring game.
If they really wanted to make it more interesting then they could at least just make it ONE can and ONE game that several people could co-operate to solve with some REAL challenge involved.
because as it is I didn't bother my bum to read any guides on this game I just randomly clicked on 3 minigames learned the rules and mastered the incredibly simple yet insanely clickfesty game they have made.
CCP not learning how to make things enjoyable still.
As to the isk argument that is the dumbest thing I have seen all day on EVE O(which does say alot) The intention of a game is for it to be fun. The idea isn't that the stuff that makes no isk should be fun while stuff that makes Isk should be booring. It should ALL be fun this is what we pay for. and this new minigame is NOT fun that is the one thing our incredibly argumentative alliance has ALL been able to agree on for once, not a single voice of dissent to be heard.
Be more fun if the game was some type of desktop defenders tbh, might as well be. |
chris elliot
EG CORP Mass Overload
181
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Posted - 2013.06.10 23:14:00 -
[23] - Quote
Don't worry. After Ytterbium is done making T3's useless in a few months you wont have to worry about hacking cans because it will no longer be worth anything.
Problem solved :) |
Elle Lau
Lead Farmers Kill It With Fire
6
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Posted - 2013.06.11 03:05:00 -
[24] - Quote
Having tried hisec/lowsec and also WH space Data & Relic analyzing I have to say that CCP have really screwed everyone over here. Sure I get a little kick out of the meta game but there is no reason why I would keep doing it because you get nothing from the cans.
They say they increased the amount in each can so that even if you only get half of the mini-cans on your own you will still get equal to what you got pre-patch. It couldn't be further from the truth.
There is no way I would waste time sitting at 0 playing a mini game all the while waiting to get ganked, all for the chance of getting some metal scraps .. it's just not worth it and people will soon learn this. Watch T3 prices go through the roof. This I believe is the real reason why this has been introduced in the first place.
If not, CCP have some fixing to do. |
chris elliot
EG CORP Mass Overload
181
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Posted - 2013.06.11 06:09:00 -
[25] - Quote
Elle Lau wrote:Having tried hisec/lowsec and also WH space Data & Relic analyzing I have to say that CCP have really screwed everyone over here. Sure I get a little kick out of the meta game but there is no reason why I would keep doing it because you get nothing from the cans.
They say they increased the amount in each can so that even if you only get half of the mini-cans on your own you will still get equal to what you got pre-patch. It couldn't be further from the truth.
There is no way I would waste time sitting at 0 playing a mini game all the while waiting to get ganked, all for the chance of getting some metal scraps .. it's just not worth it and people will soon learn this. Watch T3 prices go through the roof. This I believe is the real reason why this has been introduced in the first place.
If not, CCP have some fixing to do.
https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=3174514#post3174514
You should probably peruse over there and see what the resident clown is proposing to do before you speculate anything other than prices going through the floor. |
Doukyou
Deafening Silence Syndiate In Umbra Mortis
8
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Posted - 2013.06.13 06:28:00 -
[26] - Quote
Yeah this change has totally ruined one of my favorite parts of the game. I like the fact that you can scan the cans to find out what is in them. I hate the fact that you can't get all the ejected cans by yourself. You need at least 2 or 3 people to guarantee you get what you scanned down in the can.
I agree the meta game sucks ballz. Total waste of time. I already have the skills to do this at the highest level possible with a T3. And even I loose a can from time to time. This may entertain a retard3d monkey for hours on end, but the average player will loose interest quickly.
This is something they could have done sooo much with. Instead they took a integral part of the game and totally took all the fun out of it. Your manual scanner probe skills meant something, you positioned the probes in your best way you could as fast as you could, then you got to a site before someone else. The competition was getting to a can first then watching someone hack a can you already hacked, just to get nothing. Now both using scanner probes and getting to a can first means NOTHING.
I give the new data and relic sites a ONE on a 1 to 10 scale. This is a totally fail in my book. In the end it is just one more reason to leave the game.
Thanks a lot CCP Fozzie |
Terrorfrodo
Renegade Hobbits for Mordor
488
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Posted - 2013.06.13 08:17:00 -
[27] - Quote
The game is not only luck, although I also think the random part is too big; if I get 4 restoration nodes right at the start and find no utilities, I simply have no chance to win.
CCP said it's just a beginning though and they want te refine it. With a few tweaks the hacking game can become really fun. I find it kind of okay even now, my biggest gripe is that there are way too many containers in the sites. I'm okay with doing the hacking game three times per site, but not 12 or 20 times, that becomes really tedious. . |
Kalel Nimrott
EG CORP Mass Overload
303
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Posted - 2013.06.13 10:34:00 -
[28] - Quote
Im going back to gas mining. |
Nathan Jameson
Grumpy Bastards Mass Overload
1328
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Posted - 2013.06.14 04:51:00 -
[29] - Quote
Devs have confirmed a new gas mining "minigame" where harvesters have to move their cursor quickly back and forth over the screen (ala touch phone games) to collect all the fullerite "coin" containers before they disappear. Points can be won to use in upgrades to harvester collection area and rare C320/C540 drops. http://www.TalocanUnited.com |
chris elliot
EG CORP Mass Overload
185
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Posted - 2013.06.14 05:38:00 -
[30] - Quote
Nathan Jameson wrote:Devs have confirmed a new gas mining "minigame" where harvesters have to move their cursor quickly back and forth over the screen (ala touch phone games) to collect all the fullerite "coin" containers before they disappear. Points can be won to use in upgrades to harvester collection area and rare C320/C540 drops.
Aaaaand I'll just run incursions. F8ck that noise. |
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