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Alexander McKeon
Ekchuah's Shrine Comporium Kill It With Fire
10
|
Posted - 2013.06.07 11:18:00 -
[1] - Quote
After our corp recently did a round of capital escalations to finish the current crop of sites, we got our hacking ships to crack some radar cans and get loot out. The hacking mini-game, even for those in the corp with level V skills & T2 mods was a major pain; we had six people hacking the cans at two sites, and that bit of can-cracking took longer than fully clearing six sites, including the sub-battleship junk. When K-space hacking sites have a handful of cans per site, and wormhole ones have upwards of twenty, the additional time sink caused by having to play the minigame is just silly. It would have been more ISK-efficient to hop in RR tengus and run a site in our static & buy the loot required for T3 production.
Lastly, what is up with carbon, hydrogen batteries & other pointless wastes of volume / time? We shouldn't have to bother with that, just give us the old radar can loot where everything at least had a use. |
Borlag Crendraven
Future Corps Sleeper Social Club
364
|
Posted - 2013.06.07 11:20:00 -
[2] - Quote
Just use cargo scanners to see which cans are worthwile, you can skip all the junk that way. |
Alexander McKeon
Ekchuah's Shrine Comporium Kill It With Fire
10
|
Posted - 2013.06.07 12:01:00 -
[3] - Quote
Oh believe me, we've already retro-fitted all our ships with cargo scanners to avoid the crap, but my point is that the crap shouldn't be there in the first place, and the greatly increased time per can to crack it is rather irritating. Catching the scattered bits & bobs wasn't bad though with a group. |
Terrorfrodo
Renegade Hobbits for Mordor
487
|
Posted - 2013.06.07 13:31:00 -
[4] - Quote
They didn't reduce the number of cans? Meh! . |
MisterAl tt1
Pretenders Inc W-Space
110
|
Posted - 2013.06.07 13:31:00 -
[5] - Quote
Spent one and a half hour to make a data site from the beginning to the end (WH C6). Which is somewhat between 2 to 3 times longer then it used to need. That game can be fine in null or high, with no rats there. But in wormholes we need to first clear the site, that means we have a fleet (I don't count octopus-farming).
For us it looked like after the site is cleared, 3 "hackers" go "playing", each followed by a group of 3 to be able to catch all the containers. As a result we cannot go to farm next site, and most of the fleet have to either sit under FF or wait for the magical "CATCH IT!" command. Not really worth the time, nor it is interesting to just sit and wait. |
Mr Kidd
Center for Advanced Studies Gallente Federation
1155
|
Posted - 2013.06.07 15:00:00 -
[6] - Quote
Can't say I didn't see this coming... HTFU!...for the children! |
Tinu Moorhsum
Random Events
212
|
Posted - 2013.06.07 15:34:00 -
[7] - Quote
Alexander McKeon wrote:After our corp recently did a round of capital escalations to finish the current crop of sites,
Er... don't run them then?
In the higher level wormholes the isk is already insane. It seems a little odd to be moaning about this.
|
Faye Fantastic
NorCorp Enterprise No Holes Barred
5
|
Posted - 2013.06.07 17:03:00 -
[8] - Quote
Tinu Moorhsum wrote:
Er... don't run them then?
In the higher level wormholes the isk is already insane. It seems a little odd to be moaning about this.
I think (and hope) the idea behind this was to make the whole hacking / analyzing more engaging rather than having a module cycle.
So they made a clickfest instead (yay for PI anno 2011). So I tried it; the first time it was cool. It was new and fresh. 2nd time.. well ok. 3rd time I got annoyed with it. I looked at my overview.. 12 cans to go. Now I am not saying it was especially interesting before, but now it is a tedious clickfest that doesnt require any more brain actictiy than before.
I could maybe accept it if we're talking 5-ish cans / site (like k-space) but having to do 10-15? on several sites? That just aint that much fun.
And for someone engaged in the T3 production being forced into this? Well, let's just say this isn't my idea of fun and engaging.
That is my opinion anyways. (I know others who think it is the greatest invention since the internet, and peace be with them. I am happy they got what they wanted, it is just not for me) |
Chris Winter
Zephyr Corp V.A.S.T.
125
|
Posted - 2013.06.07 17:18:00 -
[9] - Quote
If I wanted to play a roguelike, I'd go download and play a roguelike.
If I wanted to quickly click on things flying past me, I'd pull out a phone or tablet for some casual twitch gaming.
I don't want to do either of those things. I want to play internet spaceships. |
Kalel Nimrott
EG CORP Mass Overload
297
|
Posted - 2013.06.07 18:03:00 -
[10] - Quote
This system just f@cked with us solo ninja farmers. Job well done. But I cant complain, I only farmed some days a week to pay for my two accounts and ships. But its cool as long as I can adapt to this. |
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Uejene
Aries Group Pride Before Fall
0
|
Posted - 2013.06.07 18:39:00 -
[11] - Quote
Last night my Alliance ran 2 Data Sites. I knew that it was going to be a pain to hack all the cans but we did it anyways on the first Data Site. Hour later all 20 cans were hacked and looted. And we moved on to hack second Data Site. We were stoked that we got a Talacon Battleship Wreck to salvage (Where you get t3 Hull prints). Talacon Battleship Wrecks is normally big money because we use for t3 production. When we went to salvage wreck salvaging did not work on it we had to analyze it to open. I analyzed the wreck and we got nothing but trash like carbon. In a c5 where are we suppose to get hull prints now? |
Kalel Nimrott
EG CORP Mass Overload
298
|
Posted - 2013.06.07 19:46:00 -
[12] - Quote
Kalel Nimrott wrote:This system just f@cked with us solo ninja farmers. Job well done. But I cant complain, I only farmed some days a week to pay for my two accounts and ships. But its cool as long as I can adapt to this.
I would also like to add to this that day trippers are f@ck if they go alone and not multibox a little more than they do now. Nice! |
D'Angelo Barksdale
He's got a pineapple on his head
4
|
Posted - 2013.06.08 07:42:00 -
[13] - Quote
Kalel Nimrott wrote:Kalel Nimrott wrote:This system just f@cked with us solo ninja farmers. Job well done. But I cant complain, I only farmed some days a week to pay for my two accounts and ships. But its cool as long as I can adapt to this. I would also like to add to this that day trippers are f@ck if they go alone and not multibox a little more than they do now. Nice!
ninja farming is bad mkay! |
Kalel Nimrott
EG CORP Mass Overload
298
|
Posted - 2013.06.08 10:28:00 -
[14] - Quote
And after I spent two hours in a relic site I just figured out how to do them.... in a falcon with no specialized rigs and archeology to level 4. Back? |
Godfrey Silvarna
Frozen Dawn Inc Arctic Light
80
|
Posted - 2013.06.08 12:31:00 -
[15] - Quote
Uejene wrote:Last night my Alliance ran 2 Data Sites. I knew that it was going to be a pain to hack all the cans but we did it anyways on the first Data Site. Hour later all 20 cans were hacked and looted. And we moved on to hack second Data Site. We were stoked that we got a Talacon Battleship Wreck to salvage (Where you get t3 Hull prints). Talacon Battleship Wrecks is normally big money because we use for t3 production. When we went to salvage wreck salvaging did not work on it we had to analyze it to open. I analyzed the wreck and we got nothing but trash like carbon. In a c5 where are we suppose to get hull prints now? Well, this is interesting.
Do any others have similar observations? |
Resilan Bearcat
Fighting Carebears
8
|
Posted - 2013.06.08 12:46:00 -
[16] - Quote
We ran a relic site in a C5 last night. It took us 10-15 minutes to escalate the site and kill everything but the trigger in the first wave. At that point, we brought in a falcon to jam the trigger and a hacker to hack the cans and 2 additional looters to grab the spew containers.
It took almost an hour to hack all 10 cans in the site and the total reward from the cans was just over 350M ISK. The general consensus was that this was an extremely boring hour for everyone except maybe the hacker. We had no way of following his progress in the game until he would announce the spew was coming. Bottom line, the hacking was not worth the effort even for a group that does T3 production.
The current hacking game is a single player mini-game. The design concept of spewing containers to encourage and promote cooperation is a very poor concept. If you want to encourage cooperation, make the hacking game support multiple players. There is nothing engaging or rewarding about sitting next to a can waiting for containers to come flying out.
Given the current design of the hacking game, sleepers should be removed from data and relic sites in wormholes. The loot reward should be adjusted to reflect that it is intended for 1-2 players instead of groups.
Question: We ran the Forgotten Core Data Field which does not have the mechanic where sleepers spawn after the 2nd or 3rd container is hacked. Does anyone know if that mechanic still exist? If so, that is absolutely stupid as you will lose whatever was in that container when the sleepers spawn. |
Kalel Nimrott
EG CORP Mass Overload
298
|
Posted - 2013.06.08 13:40:00 -
[17] - Quote
Resilan Bearcat wrote:We ran a relic site in a C5 last night. It took us 10-15 minutes to escalate the site and kill everything but the trigger in the first wave. At that point, we brought in a falcon to jam the trigger and a hacker to hack the cans and 2 additional looters to grab the spew containers.
It took almost an hour to hack all 10 cans in the site and the total reward from the cans was just over 350M ISK. The general consensus was that this was an extremely boring hour for everyone except maybe the hacker. We had no way of following his progress in the game until he would announce the spew was coming. Bottom line, the hacking was not worth the effort even for a group that does T3 production.
The current hacking game is a single player mini-game. The design concept of spewing containers to encourage and promote cooperation is a very poor concept. If you want to encourage cooperation, make the hacking game support multiple players. There is nothing engaging or rewarding about sitting next to a can waiting for containers to come flying out.
Given the current design of the hacking game, sleepers should be removed from data and relic sites in wormholes. The loot reward should be adjusted to reflect that it is intended for 1-2 players instead of groups.
Question: We ran the Forgotten Core Data Field which does not have the mechanic where sleepers spawn after the 2nd or 3rd container is hacked. Does anyone know if that mechanic still exist? If so, that is absolutely stupid as you will lose whatever was in that container when the sleepers spawn.
Dont do that, please. Keep that in empire. |
Nykr
The Last Call.
9
|
Posted - 2013.06.08 17:03:00 -
[18] - Quote
Alexander McKeon wrote: It would have been more ISK-efficient to hop in RR tengus and run a site in our static & buy the loot required for T3 production.
And then here everyone does that. There is no supply and a lot more damand then before. Price skyrockets and it is suddenly worth doing it. Now everyone starts hacking again and supply goes up. And demand goes down. This will even out at a point where there is enough people that find it worthwile to run the sites. And there are enough buyers for the specific price.
And suddenly the economy has adapted, like magic. |
Svodola Darkfury
Heaven's End League of Infamy
192
|
Posted - 2013.06.08 20:31:00 -
[19] - Quote
Godfrey Silvarna wrote:Uejene wrote:Last night my Alliance ran 2 Data Sites. I knew that it was going to be a pain to hack all the cans but we did it anyways on the first Data Site. Hour later all 20 cans were hacked and looted. And we moved on to hack second Data Site. We were stoked that we got a Talacon Battleship Wreck to salvage (Where you get t3 Hull prints). Talacon Battleship Wrecks is normally big money because we use for t3 production. When we went to salvage wreck salvaging did not work on it we had to analyze it to open. I analyzed the wreck and we got nothing but trash like carbon. In a c5 where are we suppose to get hull prints now? Well, this is interesting. Do any others have similar observations?
They drop from the cans. I addressed this question a couple weeks ago and we actually received a Dev response about it.
To the above post: that's like saying the drone poo nerf made mining more interesting. It made mining more PROFITABLE, perhaps, but definitely not more interesting. This is first and foremost a GAME, it's not supposed to be horribly tedious. Farming is one thing, trying to hack ONE site and taking an hour and a half is ridiculous.
Svo. CEO of Heaven's End; Seller of Wormholes. |
Mr Kidd
Center for Advanced Studies Gallente Federation
1159
|
Posted - 2013.06.09 03:41:00 -
[20] - Quote
Nykr wrote:Alexander McKeon wrote: It would have been more ISK-efficient to hop in RR tengus and run a site in our static & buy the loot required for T3 production.
And then here everyone does that. There is no supply and a lot more damand then before. Price skyrockets and it is suddenly worth doing it. Now everyone starts hacking again and supply goes up. And demand goes down. This will even out at a point where there is enough people that find it worthwile to run the sites. And there are enough buyers for the specific price. And suddenly the economy has adapted, like magic.
In a perfect economy, yes.
But this Eve. It's neither perfect nor real. Way too many players undercut the worth of their own time considering data/relic/sleeper loot "free". Otherwise, you wouldn't have a subsystem set for a particular T3 hull requiring you to produce the one profitable subsystem in the set at a loss when you factor in failure to reverse engineer and uncertainty of which subsystem bpc you'll produce. Typically, you'll have one maybe two subsystems in a set that's profitable only offset by the other two that aren't profitable. There are many examples in T3 production where a subsystem is cheaper to buy than the cost of the components to produce it. That's not even considering time and hassle.
So, please, tell us again how crap loot in data/relic sites are going to be worth doing?
You have to realize that many of these guys that have run data/relic sites are living in c5 territory. For the effort and manpower they're going to be better off running anoms. Data/Relic sites will never be worth the effort in the current state unless everyone here is willing and able to pay essentially the same price for a T3 as they would a Vindicator. T3's are soon to be nerfed. My bet is we're looking at the end of T3's as we know it and this is CCP's introduction to such a concept. HTFU!...for the children! |
|
Ferna Akai
Delete Inc. Enigma Project
2
|
Posted - 2013.06.10 03:47:00 -
[21] - Quote
We have similar troubles with the new hacking.
The Minigame is TO Random based, Better ship/skill/mods let you hack more effective but not faster. Also why have the loot eject?? This makes that we have to change alot of things in the way things role. With result that T3 prices will increase. I'm not against mixing the hacking up. But the Hacking game has to be balanced to it's rewards in my Opinion.
One last note on the ejection of the loot, once your invertory is full you can't collect any more and the loot goes Poof. This really annoys me! As the covert ops get bonussed your cargo bay is rather small. Combine that with the change to the talocan containers you waste ISK easily.
Also why did the requirements for the talocan containers change? As they used to be salvaging which made sence. A broken battleship, probably best to Salvage it right?
I think in a good attempt to create something fun, CCP created quite an annoyance for WH dwellers and explorers. |
Sandslinger
NorCorp Enterprise No Holes Barred
88
|
Posted - 2013.06.10 20:11:00 -
[22] - Quote
Faye Fantastic wrote:Tinu Moorhsum wrote:
Er... don't run them then?
In the higher level wormholes the isk is already insane. It seems a little odd to be moaning about this.
I think (and hope) the idea behind this was to make the whole hacking / analyzing more engaging rather than having a module cycle. So they made a clickfest instead (yay for PI anno 2011). So I tried it; the first time it was cool. It was new and fresh. 2nd time.. well ok. 3rd time I got annoyed with it. I looked at my overview.. 12 cans to go. Now I am not saying it was especially interesting before, but now it is a tedious clickfest that doesnt require any more brain actictiy than before. I could maybe accept it if we're talking 5-ish cans / site (like k-space) but having to do 10-15? on several sites? That just aint that much fun. And for someone engaged in the T3 production being forced into this? Well, let's just say this isn't my idea of fun and engaging. That is my opinion anyways. (I know others who think it is the greatest invention since the internet, and peace be with them. I am happy they got what they wanted, it is just not for me)
This about sums it up, any minigame regardless of how much fun it is in the beginning just becomes a mindless incredibly booring game.
If they really wanted to make it more interesting then they could at least just make it ONE can and ONE game that several people could co-operate to solve with some REAL challenge involved.
because as it is I didn't bother my bum to read any guides on this game I just randomly clicked on 3 minigames learned the rules and mastered the incredibly simple yet insanely clickfesty game they have made.
CCP not learning how to make things enjoyable still.
As to the isk argument that is the dumbest thing I have seen all day on EVE O(which does say alot) The intention of a game is for it to be fun. The idea isn't that the stuff that makes no isk should be fun while stuff that makes Isk should be booring. It should ALL be fun this is what we pay for. and this new minigame is NOT fun that is the one thing our incredibly argumentative alliance has ALL been able to agree on for once, not a single voice of dissent to be heard.
Be more fun if the game was some type of desktop defenders tbh, might as well be. |
chris elliot
EG CORP Mass Overload
181
|
Posted - 2013.06.10 23:14:00 -
[23] - Quote
Don't worry. After Ytterbium is done making T3's useless in a few months you wont have to worry about hacking cans because it will no longer be worth anything.
Problem solved :) |
Elle Lau
Lead Farmers Kill It With Fire
6
|
Posted - 2013.06.11 03:05:00 -
[24] - Quote
Having tried hisec/lowsec and also WH space Data & Relic analyzing I have to say that CCP have really screwed everyone over here. Sure I get a little kick out of the meta game but there is no reason why I would keep doing it because you get nothing from the cans.
They say they increased the amount in each can so that even if you only get half of the mini-cans on your own you will still get equal to what you got pre-patch. It couldn't be further from the truth.
There is no way I would waste time sitting at 0 playing a mini game all the while waiting to get ganked, all for the chance of getting some metal scraps .. it's just not worth it and people will soon learn this. Watch T3 prices go through the roof. This I believe is the real reason why this has been introduced in the first place.
If not, CCP have some fixing to do. |
chris elliot
EG CORP Mass Overload
181
|
Posted - 2013.06.11 06:09:00 -
[25] - Quote
Elle Lau wrote:Having tried hisec/lowsec and also WH space Data & Relic analyzing I have to say that CCP have really screwed everyone over here. Sure I get a little kick out of the meta game but there is no reason why I would keep doing it because you get nothing from the cans.
They say they increased the amount in each can so that even if you only get half of the mini-cans on your own you will still get equal to what you got pre-patch. It couldn't be further from the truth.
There is no way I would waste time sitting at 0 playing a mini game all the while waiting to get ganked, all for the chance of getting some metal scraps .. it's just not worth it and people will soon learn this. Watch T3 prices go through the roof. This I believe is the real reason why this has been introduced in the first place.
If not, CCP have some fixing to do.
https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=3174514#post3174514
You should probably peruse over there and see what the resident clown is proposing to do before you speculate anything other than prices going through the floor. |
Doukyou
Deafening Silence Syndiate In Umbra Mortis
8
|
Posted - 2013.06.13 06:28:00 -
[26] - Quote
Yeah this change has totally ruined one of my favorite parts of the game. I like the fact that you can scan the cans to find out what is in them. I hate the fact that you can't get all the ejected cans by yourself. You need at least 2 or 3 people to guarantee you get what you scanned down in the can.
I agree the meta game sucks ballz. Total waste of time. I already have the skills to do this at the highest level possible with a T3. And even I loose a can from time to time. This may entertain a retard3d monkey for hours on end, but the average player will loose interest quickly.
This is something they could have done sooo much with. Instead they took a integral part of the game and totally took all the fun out of it. Your manual scanner probe skills meant something, you positioned the probes in your best way you could as fast as you could, then you got to a site before someone else. The competition was getting to a can first then watching someone hack a can you already hacked, just to get nothing. Now both using scanner probes and getting to a can first means NOTHING.
I give the new data and relic sites a ONE on a 1 to 10 scale. This is a totally fail in my book. In the end it is just one more reason to leave the game.
Thanks a lot CCP Fozzie |
Terrorfrodo
Renegade Hobbits for Mordor
488
|
Posted - 2013.06.13 08:17:00 -
[27] - Quote
The game is not only luck, although I also think the random part is too big; if I get 4 restoration nodes right at the start and find no utilities, I simply have no chance to win.
CCP said it's just a beginning though and they want te refine it. With a few tweaks the hacking game can become really fun. I find it kind of okay even now, my biggest gripe is that there are way too many containers in the sites. I'm okay with doing the hacking game three times per site, but not 12 or 20 times, that becomes really tedious. . |
Kalel Nimrott
EG CORP Mass Overload
303
|
Posted - 2013.06.13 10:34:00 -
[28] - Quote
Im going back to gas mining. |
Nathan Jameson
Grumpy Bastards Mass Overload
1328
|
Posted - 2013.06.14 04:51:00 -
[29] - Quote
Devs have confirmed a new gas mining "minigame" where harvesters have to move their cursor quickly back and forth over the screen (ala touch phone games) to collect all the fullerite "coin" containers before they disappear. Points can be won to use in upgrades to harvester collection area and rare C320/C540 drops. http://www.TalocanUnited.com |
chris elliot
EG CORP Mass Overload
185
|
Posted - 2013.06.14 05:38:00 -
[30] - Quote
Nathan Jameson wrote:Devs have confirmed a new gas mining "minigame" where harvesters have to move their cursor quickly back and forth over the screen (ala touch phone games) to collect all the fullerite "coin" containers before they disappear. Points can be won to use in upgrades to harvester collection area and rare C320/C540 drops.
Aaaaand I'll just run incursions. F8ck that noise. |
|
Nathan Jameson
Grumpy Bastards Mass Overload
1330
|
Posted - 2013.06.14 08:29:00 -
[31] - Quote
chris elliot wrote:Aaaaand I'll just run incursions. F8ck that noise.
Did I just successfully troll you? http://www.TalocanUnited.com |
Vivian Marcos
Grumpy Bastards Mass Overload
3
|
Posted - 2013.06.14 10:17:00 -
[32] - Quote
Nathan Jameson wrote:Devs have confirmed a new gas mining "minigame" where harvesters have to move their cursor quickly back and forth over the screen (ala touch phone games) to collect all the fullerite "coin" containers before they disappear. Points can be won to use in upgrades to harvester collection area and rare C320/C540 drops.
That made my day ;D
And also to the whole hackking mini game thing, in general it isnt just click buttons until things happen, if you want to do it faster it takes a bit more strategy..... My loki does it slower than my friend does it in a drake, I stink. (to make mention a corpy in a legion does it faster than us both combined but still)
Hey sky, get back to work! U 2 cips.... |
chris elliot
EG CORP Mass Overload
187
|
Posted - 2013.06.14 15:02:00 -
[33] - Quote
Nathan Jameson wrote:chris elliot wrote:Aaaaand I'll just run incursions. F8ck that noise. Did I just successfully troll you?
Given how terrible some of the devposts have been lately that actually seemed highly plausible. |
Matthias Vilmet
Parallax Shift The Periphery
16
|
Posted - 2013.06.14 18:30:00 -
[34] - Quote
I like the minigame. I wish it was harder... maybe like having an antivirus chasing you through the areas you have already unlocked? When it catches you, your virus health begins ticking away.
As it is now, I have no chance of failing. |
Aderoth Anstian
Heaven's End League of Infamy
0
|
Posted - 2013.06.14 18:55:00 -
[35] - Quote
Personal opinion is the mini-game is easy. mittani.com has a good tips/tricks article that will reduce the amount of time needed to hack/analyze. If it's taking an hour and a half to clear all the cans then you are doing it wrong.
themittani.com hacking guide |
Grunanca
Sickology
7
|
Posted - 2013.06.14 19:22:00 -
[36] - Quote
In my opinion, its all good to have the mini game. But OMG the can spewing thing completely ruins it. I did a c3 site solo just some minutes ago. Took me 25 min to clear rats, for about 70 mil worth of loot. Then I started hacking which took 35 min. If it hadnt been for a 15 mil drop in the last can, I only would have made 5 mil in 30 min. Thats not even worth the risk of sitting there open for ganks from other players. Make it back to lootable cans, but keep the minigame, its kinda okay... |
Rena Senn
Resurrection Ventures Un.Bound
30
|
Posted - 2013.06.14 19:36:00 -
[37] - Quote
Nykr wrote:Alexander McKeon wrote: It would have been more ISK-efficient to hop in RR tengus and run a site in our static & buy the loot required for T3 production.
And then here everyone does that. There is no supply and a lot more damand then before. Price skyrockets and it is suddenly worth doing it. Now everyone starts hacking again and supply goes up. And demand goes down. This will even out at a point where there is enough people that find it worthwile to run the sites. And there are enough buyers for the specific price. And suddenly the economy has adapted, like magic.
Financial incentives should not be a justification for bad game design. If the new cans always dropped T2 BPOs but could only be opened after twelve hours of orbiting and key mashing, people would still do it for the ISK even though the experience itself would be terrible.
The hacking phase of the old w-space sites was boring, but at least it was brief and could be handled by a few or even just one person. Making the new sites even more tedious group affairs where most people have nothing to do but sit and wait makes this a step backwards to the wormhole gameplay experience. |
Trinkets friend
Minmatar-Amarr Man-Boy Love Association
1024
|
Posted - 2013.06.15 06:18:00 -
[38] - Quote
Wow, I opened the mittani.com link and my eyes glazed over. Seriously, if you care enough about being leet that you need to bust viruses and **** faster than anyone else, just write a damn bot for it already. otherwise, this is just punishment meted out to people who should be humping roids to drive down the price of trit so I can buy my Naglfar cheaper. Indigently pwning indifferently. Some sucker buy me a Naglfar. http://www.localectomy.blogspot.com.au
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DrBmN
Axial tilt
10
|
Posted - 2013.06.15 07:25:00 -
[39] - Quote
Uejene wrote:Talacon Battleship Wrecks is normally big money because we use for t3 production. When we went to salvage wreck salvaging did not work on it we had to analyze it to open. I analyzed the wreck and we got nothing but trash like carbon. In a c5 where are we suppose to get hull prints now?
no more salvaging the talocan wreck?? :(
|
Bloody Wench
545
|
Posted - 2013.06.15 17:43:00 -
[40] - Quote
Got to do a Radar tonight for the first time since the patch.
It will be the last I do as well.
The mini game is complete garbage.
Having to do it a dozen times per site? No thanks.
Having just one can with all the sites loot in it I might consider, but even so, not likely.
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Svodola Darkfury
Heaven's End League of Infamy
195
|
Posted - 2013.06.16 21:09:00 -
[41] - Quote
Bloody Wench wrote:Got to do a Radar tonight for the first time since the patch.
It will be the last I do as well.
The mini game is complete garbage.
Having to do it a dozen times per site? No thanks.
Having just one can with all the sites loot in it I might consider, but even so, not likely.
I found the Mag Sites to be HUGELY valuable given the new loot drop rates, but yes, the Radars were complete garbage. 650 mil from a mag site's cans, ~40 mil from two different Radar Sites cans. le Sigh.
Svo. CEO of Heaven's End; Seller of Wormholes. |
James Arget
Future Corps Sleeper Social Club
130
|
Posted - 2013.06.16 23:51:00 -
[42] - Quote
Yep. The number of cans is a bit ridiculous.
The design was that a single person couldn't nab all the cans, which is fine and all, but it falls apart when you realize your wingman can't help you do the hacking and is there solely to sit around and wait for you to finish. James Arget for CSM 8! Wormholes and the Player Perspective
http://csm.fcftw.org |
Kalel Nimrott
EG CORP Mass Overload
304
|
Posted - 2013.06.17 00:28:00 -
[43] - Quote
Besides, you mostly grab garbage in the cans. |
Herman Menderchuck
AscendoTech Research and Development
0
|
Posted - 2013.06.17 01:02:00 -
[44] - Quote
Why not just unlock loot via the mini-game? Hackers still have to pick and choose what loot to go after, but once you unlock a can on the hack board, it stays in space for a bit. Hackers wouldn't be able to get all the loot due to limited coherence. Get rid of the stoopid grabby game. |
Derath Ellecon
Washburne Holdings Situation: Normal
1450
|
Posted - 2013.06.17 05:52:00 -
[45] - Quote
OMG
So i just did my first C4 relic and data sites. All i can say is screw that.
First off my hacker toon has max skills, T2 analyzers and rigs, and I failed hacking too many times. So random with luck it seems.
I finally gave up after my wrist gave out, started getting carpel tunnel. |
Terrorfrodo
Renegade Hobbits for Mordor
489
|
Posted - 2013.06.17 11:40:00 -
[46] - Quote
I did a few c5 mags since the patch and they are still extremely profitable. I did them solo, but if I was in a group, I would just do those sites first and have the group move on to anoms while 1-2 hackers (or one guy and his alt) finish the cans.
I dislike the loot spew mechanic. Mostly because it is so damn difficult to pick a particular can until they have moved a lot, and then they are already starting to disintegrate.
Still, even though I could not grab everything, I got more out of a site than on average before Odyssey. Since the loot was always very very random I cannot say yet how much the average has gone up, but I feel it has gone up.
I know that most of the relic/data sites in w-space are worthless... basically all of the data sites anywhere and most of the relic sites in c1-4. That sucks, but has nothing to do with the new system, those sites were always worthless.
The ISK/hour however has definitely gone down because the hacking and travelling between cans takes so much longer. You need to put your hacker and your alt in a perfect position now to get the most loot, instead of just start the hacking from 6k away. I cannot complain though because the ISK/hour was insanely good before and is now merely very good.
Doing the sites felt a lot more exciting than before. The hacking game takes a lot of time and a bit of concentration, so you have to sit there exposed for quite a while. Watching for new sigs and hitting d-scan as often as possible while still progressing with the hacking. I haven't felt so thrilled while doing pve ever before.
As for the difficulty, I did the site with an unbonused hacker ship with T2 analyzer and 1x T2 rig and finished 80% of the cans on first try, nearly all the rest on second try. And I don't even feel I use the best approach yet. So if you constantly fail with good skills, it's not the game, it's you. Try harder. . |
Britta Nolen
Science and Trade Institute Caldari State
32
|
Posted - 2013.06.17 12:03:00 -
[47] - Quote
The new site mechanics are only better in low/null due to removal of npc's.
Also, for those that say it's ez mode. Wait until you run into multiple restorations. My record so far is three times in one hack. |
Derath Ellecon
Washburne Holdings Situation: Normal
1450
|
Posted - 2013.06.17 12:26:00 -
[48] - Quote
Terrorfrodo wrote: As for the difficulty, I did the site with an unbonused hacker ship with T2 analyzer and 1x T2 rig and finished 80% of the cans on first try, nearly all the rest on second try. And I don't even feel I use the best approach yet. So if you constantly fail with good skills, it's not the game, it's you. Try harder.
Yea right.
When I can run into 3 restoration nodes within the first 5 clicks I dont see that as not trying hard enough. Just as dumb luck. And that's the annoying part. Too much of the minigame is dumb luck.
|
Indo Nira
DEEP-SPACE CO-OP LTD Polarized.
76
|
Posted - 2013.06.17 12:43:00 -
[49] - Quote
Derath Ellecon wrote:Terrorfrodo wrote: As for the difficulty, I did the site with an unbonused hacker ship with T2 analyzer and 1x T2 rig and finished 80% of the cans on first try, nearly all the rest on second try. And I don't even feel I use the best approach yet. So if you constantly fail with good skills, it's not the game, it's you. Try harder.
Yea right. When I can run into 3 restoration nodes within the first 5 clicks I dont see that as not trying hard enough. Just as dumb luck. And that's the annoying part. Too much of the minigame is dumb luck.
rng is rng. just like with nanoribbons. now try harder |
Matthias Vilmet
Parallax Shift The Periphery
17
|
Posted - 2013.06.17 14:14:00 -
[50] - Quote
Derath Ellecon wrote:OMG
So i just did my first C4 relic and data sites. All i can say is screw that.
First off my hacker toon has max skills, T2 analyzers and rigs, and I failed hacking too many times. So random with luck it seems.
I finally gave up after my wrist gave out, started getting carpel tunnel.
Why would you have wrist problems? were you somehow forced to click really fast? I have a t2 analyzer, Hacking 5, and I am in my hacking Helios (I believe I have hacking Rigs)..... I cannot fail the games.I don't even know what to do with the helpful nodes they provide.
Your argument is invalid. |
|
Derath Ellecon
Washburne Holdings Situation: Normal
1450
|
Posted - 2013.06.17 15:02:00 -
[51] - Quote
Matthias Vilmet wrote:Derath Ellecon wrote:OMG
So i just did my first C4 relic and data sites. All i can say is screw that.
First off my hacker toon has max skills, T2 analyzers and rigs, and I failed hacking too many times. So random with luck it seems.
I finally gave up after my wrist gave out, started getting carpel tunnel. Why would you have wrist problems? were you somehow forced to click really fast? I have a t2 analyzer, Hacking 5, and I am in my hacking Helios (I believe I have hacking Rigs)..... I cannot fail the games.I don't even know what to do with the helpful nodes they provide. Your argument is invalid.
Yes I completely suck. I don't even know how I've managed this long in EVE.
I did have a bit better luck this morning. Fewer reinforcement nodes, more helpful nodes.
Minigame still sucks overall |
Daniel Plain
Science and Trade Institute Caldari State
1208
|
Posted - 2013.06.17 15:34:00 -
[52] - Quote
trying the hacking minigame for the first time i felt like i just arrived at a theoretical physics conference to find out that the main speaker is sarah palin.
"I don't troll, I just give overly blunt responses that annoy people who are wrong but don't want to admit it. It's not my fault that people have sensitive feelings" -MXZF |
GoMg JoeE2
Green-Core I -1.0 I
0
|
Posted - 2013.06.17 18:19:00 -
[53] - Quote
Good Grief! I used to run c2/3 sites solo. Loved em as I could get good salvage then get some decent loot from the cans. Now I run em solo and get crap for salvage and even worse crap for loot. Takes me 5 times longer to hack a can (I have L5 skills and bonused ship and rigs and T2 mods on alt's) than it did. WH life just got crappier.
|
Johnson 1044
Johnson Organic Produce
20
|
Posted - 2013.06.20 17:34:00 -
[54] - Quote
Sadly, just about everything related to exploration in Odyssey stinks. Pretty major failure when this whole expansion was about exploration. |
Srensis
Hard Knocks Inc.
0
|
Posted - 2013.06.20 22:55:00 -
[55] - Quote
While i do like earning 500+ mil per site, usually upwards of 800, I hate the new game. Also usually able to get it on first/second try, still tedious and doesn't have an "eve feel" to it. It's also easy to grab all the containers with only yourself and an alt. |
Kalel Nimrott
EG CORP Mass Overload
309
|
Posted - 2013.06.21 02:44:00 -
[56] - Quote
Its minesweepers in space! |
Dex DelaVenuto
Sky Templars
10
|
Posted - 2013.06.21 05:49:00 -
[57] - Quote
You scanned a crap and cracked the crap ended up with more crap. And I'm gonna crack. |
Hiljah
Out of Aces
0
|
Posted - 2013.06.24 18:37:00 -
[58] - Quote
Did a radar site. I won't do it again. Only a class 2. Even if I wanted to spend the time, I can grab 20% of the loot at most. These sites are only for four man gangs? |
Kalel Nimrott
EG CORP Mass Overload
313
|
Posted - 2013.06.24 19:22:00 -
[59] - Quote
Day trippers are so screw....
|
Hiljah
Out of Aces
0
|
Posted - 2013.06.24 19:51:00 -
[60] - Quote
Kalel Nimrott wrote:Day trippers are so screw....
Let's say I was 6 jumps from home instead of 24, and it was a class 3, and I felt like getting my dedicated scanner... Can a frig grab all the loot? AB or MWD? Would a short range aoe tractor be too much to ask for? |
|
chris elliot
EG CORP Mass Overload
193
|
Posted - 2013.06.24 20:13:00 -
[61] - Quote
You already have a short range tractor beam. |
Hiljah
Out of Aces
0
|
Posted - 2013.06.24 20:31:00 -
[62] - Quote
chris elliot wrote:You already have a short range tractor beam. I'm really hoping you name all your ships "obvious". |
Phaderift
Sky Fighters Mass Overload
28
|
Posted - 2013.06.24 20:57:00 -
[63] - Quote
Hiljah wrote:chris elliot wrote:You already have a short range tractor beam. I'm really hoping you name all your ships "obvious".
confirmed all his ships are named obvious |
Hiljah
Out of Aces
0
|
Posted - 2013.06.24 21:07:00 -
[64] - Quote
Hiljah wrote:chris elliot wrote:You already have a short range tractor beam. I'm really hoping you name all your ships "obvious". I'm sorry, that was uncalled for. Maybe you were trying to be helpful but don't read so good. Where is the button I press to get all the ejected loot? I tried to find it on your mom, that was really gross. |
Hank Budsprout
Terror Swarm
3
|
Posted - 2013.07.31 17:18:00 -
[65] - Quote
Wow the Eve forum community has to be the most whiney, bitchy, dissatisfied flailing panzies I've ever seen. You all must go through so much tissue on a regular basis. I read these posts in a wetsuit to not get drenched by the ocean of tears. |
Freddie Merrcury
Axiom Inc.
4
|
Posted - 2013.07.31 17:27:00 -
[66] - Quote
Hank Budsprout wrote:Wow the Eve forum community has to be the most whiney, bitchy, dissatisfied flailing panzies I've ever seen. You all must go through so much tissue on a regular basis. I read these posts in a wetsuit to not get drenched by the ocean of tears. Look mom, im shitposting.
I too like to complain about people being unsatisfied by a negative change to their method of gameplay.
I been kicked out of better homes than this. |
Elemental Order
The Dark Space Initiative Scary Wormhole People
19
|
Posted - 2013.08.02 05:24:00 -
[67] - Quote
Hank Budsprout wrote:Wow the Eve forum community has to be the most whiney, bitchy, dissatisfied flailing panzies I've ever seen. You all must go through so much tissue on a regular basis. I read these posts in a wetsuit to not get drenched by the ocean of tears.
I intend to penetrate said wetsuit. |
Kalel Nimrott
EG CORP Mass Overload
355
|
Posted - 2013.08.02 10:39:00 -
[68] - Quote
Hiljah wrote:Hiljah wrote:chris elliot wrote:You already have a short range tractor beam. I'm really hoping you name all your ships "obvious". I'm sorry, that was uncalled for. Maybe you were trying to be helpful but don't read so good. Where is the button I press to get all the ejected loot? I tried to find it on your mom, that was really gross.
I actually gave you an honest answer, but you are a f@cktard. Go hide in your moms hole. |
SidtheKid100
Pitchfork Militia Catastrophic Uprising
29
|
Posted - 2013.08.06 11:55:00 -
[69] - Quote
I'm waiting for an ISD to show up soon...
As a returning WH'er who recently(read: post-odyssey) did a few relic/data sites in a C3, I can't be arsed about the 'efficiency' or the isk/hour factor of running said sites. I just like playing that damn mini-game.
I can understand that for people not hacking the cans, it would be insanely boring. I'm going to second the idea quoted below. It should be implemented, no way should all the other people who are required to effectively gather all the loot cans have to sit on their hands while the hacker (me) gets all the fun.
Resilan Bearcat wrote: ... The current hacking game is a single player mini-game. The design concept of spewing containers to encourage and promote cooperation is a very poor concept. If you want to encourage cooperation, make the hacking game support multiple players. There is nothing engaging or rewarding about sitting next to a can waiting for containers to come flying out. ...
I don't always post on the forums, but when I do, I prefer posting with my main. |
Riel Saigo
Science and Trade Institute Caldari State
7
|
Posted - 2013.08.09 22:36:00 -
[70] - Quote
Though my profile says one year - I've only been playing a couple months. Did some relic/data site-running in highsec for a while, and now I've recently moved into lowsec to do the same thing. Noob observations:
I think the little mini-game where you click on stuff is good. It's mildly annoying, but in a way I'm OK with (and is sort of fun, in its way). And it gets easier to play when you've skilled up. So I'm fine with this. It also gives unfriendlies more time to gank you while you're being inattentive - which is a good thing for Eve.
But I really don't like how all the cannisters shoot off into space and you have to go clicking on them to pull them in. That's just annoying, and in a way I'm not OK with. I'd rather just receive my loot distribution after the min-game, and move on.
Or alternatively, reduce the ejected cannisters to four in number and each of them shoot off different ways, such that you're only likely to get one of them and you have to pick. Make one of the cannisters awesome loot, two of them "nothing special" loot, and one of them "fairly crappy" loot. And without a cargo scanner, they all look the same. But with one they are color-coded for quality.
Just an idea.
Honestly though, I don't like the chase-the-loot-and-get-carbon-and-batteries game much. |
|
Vassal Zeren
Uncontrollable Innovations
68
|
Posted - 2013.08.09 23:17:00 -
[71] - Quote
If they just reduce the amount of cans per site and increase the amount of loot proportionately there would be no problem. Say no more than 5 cans. A bad analogy is like a leaky screwdriver. |
exxon halliburton
i'm from the government and i'm here to help
2
|
Posted - 2013.09.03 00:00:00 -
[72] - Quote
confirming can spew is crap |
Indira Himesama
Andorianisches Bergbaukonsortium
5
|
Posted - 2013.09.03 13:22:00 -
[73] - Quote
From experience form C2 wormwhole data and relics sites I'd summeries that main loot is what remains after doing the pew pew. I mean that stuff you take out of sleepers cold burned up tentacles via your salvaging ship and not that 99% random crap from the containers. Last number I remember from yesterdays relic site:
28,1 mio ISK from looting and salvaging wracks. 2,4 mio ISK from analyzing and looting 8* containers as 2 persons.
I felt more rewarded for killing that (relatively) hard wave of 2 battleships than for MWDing after all that containers, especially since grapping them and clicking your scanner is something really stressfull... at least more than watching 2 armor bars and waiting for either switching target or warp out while watching the scanner.
So I want to add the argument that the risk + time vs. reward opening these containers seem to be most of the time not in best balance. Though the site itself is profitable as whole. But I could imagine just leaving these containers decay and move to the next site will increase the ISK/time. And I kind of thought the sleepers are meant to force you to bring some pew pew power in the site instead of these guards being the "main dish" themselves. :) I kind of feel trolled by the sleepers. :D
*: +/- 2... I never actually counted them. :) De Kus
Love hurts, love strengthens... |
Darkward
DW Industries
2
|
Posted - 2013.10.04 21:33:00 -
[74] - Quote
1st I feel like an ape in the apollo program 2nd I feel like a baby trying to catch butterflies 3rd I feel stupid in doing it |
ahnara adeit
Wargasam
0
|
Posted - 2013.12.10 16:55:00 -
[75] - Quote
Alexander McKeon wrote:After our corp recently did a round of capital escalations to finish the current crop of sites, we got our hacking ships to crack some radar cans and get loot out. The hacking mini-game, even for those in the corp with level V skills & T2 mods was a major pain; we had six people hacking the cans at two sites, and that bit of can-cracking took longer than fully clearing six sites, including the sub-battleship junk. When K-space hacking sites have a handful of cans per site, and wormhole ones have upwards of twenty, the additional time sink caused by having to play the minigame is just silly. It would have been more ISK-efficient to hop in RR tengus and run a site in our static & buy the loot required for T3 production.
Lastly, what is up with carbon, hydrogen batteries & other pointless wastes of volume / time? We shouldn't have to bother with that, just give us the old radar can loot where everything at least had a use.
/facepalm... how? it takes me on average 15-30 seconds to clear one of the minigames and only two people to pick up all the cans (if you want the junk to) or if i scan it i can pass on the junk and get all the good loot, so lets say 30 sec per can to hack, 30 sec to loot the minis (that part is total BS btw, we passed the minigame give me the damn loot) and travel time between hacks is dependent on distance (changes every site) and your max speed, lets say it takes two min to get between hacks and there is fifteen cans, that is still less than one hour to do a large site. oh and i forgot to mention im not even close to all lvl 5 skills.... |
Havoc Zealot
Sky Fighters
62
|
Posted - 2013.12.10 18:36:00 -
[76] - Quote
HOLY NECRO BATMAN!
this thread is old |
Borsek
A.A.A Ragnarok.
60
|
Posted - 2013.12.10 20:21:00 -
[77] - Quote
Since you already necroed, I'll add my 2 cents... it seems data sites either got easier, or people got better at this. I average around 30 cans hacked per hour, so it would take two proficient hackers less than 15 mins to clear a huge site. I often finish before the can pickers approach the container, so I don't really have an issue with it. The spawn containers are annoying though, that's the worst mechanic ever, and the only co-operation it promotes is dual boxing. |
Soldarius
Deadman W0nderland Test Alliance Please Ignore
404
|
Posted - 2013.12.11 15:23:00 -
[78] - Quote
I am concerned that there is more isk in the salvage and loot than in the site itself. Perhaps CCP should consider removing the rats from w-space data/relic sites and put them into combat plexes like in k-space. Free Ripley Weaver! |
Riel Saigo
The Nommo Insurance Fraud.
65
|
Posted - 2013.12.11 16:24:00 -
[79] - Quote
I'd rather see a nerf to the economics of exploration than the economics of wormhole space. |
Stan Durden
Traverse Holdings Setting The Universe on Fire
3
|
Posted - 2013.12.11 17:51:00 -
[80] - Quote
To fix the hacking mini-game could we please have something requiring logic, reasoning, or quick thinking and not just luck. I am serious when I say that I would have more fun playing minesweeper then the hacking mini game. There are plenty of mini games all over the internet that are fun to play because they engage your mind and make you think. It could be a think fast or think hard, either way it needs to be more then simply random with only a few limited ways to increase odds of success.
I don't know what the point of the can spew was but it needs to stop. If you need to eject the loot from the can so the despawn can trigger then put it out into a standard jetcan. The current system is terrible. |
|
Derek Nahrnid
The Four Kings
0
|
Posted - 2013.12.21 04:21:00 -
[81] - Quote
I believe that most of the people complaining that the new minigame issue is difficult/taking too long are doing them in WH space. But I have a hunch that those people who are saying the minigame is easy are playing it in high or low sec. Yes, the minigame is very easy here in hisec, even somewhat engaging for some. I can see that, but I've also tried null and there is a difference with a luck factor involved as you get to more and more difficult sites. Due to the sleepers present in WH space, I'm under the impression that those sites can't be solo'd...someone please correct me if I'm wrong there. Yet those claiming this is easy seem to be soloing or +1 for the purpose of looting the cans... |
ExookiZ
The Dark Space Initiative Scary Wormhole People
113
|
Posted - 2013.12.22 15:00:00 -
[82] - Quote
the cans should explode if you fail the can twice, just like everywhere else. I dont understand why CCP made WH sites easy mode
The over saturation of the loot gained from data/relic sites has caused most of the loot to be not even worth the time doing. The Wormhole Kid |
Suomi Khan
The Scope Gallente Federation
10
|
Posted - 2013.12.23 01:27:00 -
[83] - Quote
Derek Nahrnid wrote: Due to the sleepers present in WH space, I'm under the impression that those sites can't be solo'd...someone please correct me if I'm wrong there. . You can solo some of them to a point where you can hack the can's without trouble from the sleepers as long as you have an alt. The game itself is easy with good skills, but the mini-game is so booring and time consuming that I would rather play facebook games..
Whoever approved to put the mini-game into EVE should consider if he/she is working for the right company tbh. Who knows, King might be hireing, one thing is clear, that mini-game has nothing to do in EVE. |
Bibosikus
End-of-Line
170
|
Posted - 2013.12.24 17:22:00 -
[84] - Quote
Perhaps Eve Online should be rebadged as Eve OnMine-sweeper..
(+1 for hating the minigame. Pointless and repetitive with no challenge).
The box said "Requires Windows-á2000 or better", so I installed Linux. |
Yampasi
you're doing it wrong
4
|
Posted - 2014.01.01 10:39:00 -
[85] - Quote
bump.
i thought killing the rats that are guarding the loot was the boring bit...
actually getting to the relic loot is mind numbingly boring, irritating and time consuming. thanks! |
Yampasi
you're doing it wrong
4
|
Posted - 2014.01.01 10:46:00 -
[86] - Quote
ahhh!
just spent 20 mins trying to hack ONE can. finally pop it open. then a new wave of rats spawn and kill me! amazing!! i look forward to doing this again.... |
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