What kills me about the explor changes is that it was completely unnecessary. They broke what did not need fixing.

We're revisiting the loot but a lot of this is due to the sheer increase in number of people using the feature. Six times more people doing it makes a huge supply side change! The data and relic sites in particular are seeing a awful lot of visitors. Things will obviously adjust as people drift off to other things and in part the depressed prices for the loot will help with that as it will move on those who are just taking part in the immediate gold rush post changes.

We're revisiting the loot but a lot of this is due to the sheer increase in number of people using the feature. Six times more people doing it makes a huge supply side change! The data and relic sites in particular are seeing a awful lot of visitors. Things will obviously adjust as people drift off to other things and in part the depressed prices for the loot will help with that as it will move on those who are just taking part in the immediate gold rush post changes.

We're revisiting the loot but a lot of this is due to the sheer increase in number of people using the feature. Six times more people doing it makes a huge supply side change! The data and relic sites in particular are seeing a awful lot of visitors. Things will obviously adjust as people drift off to other things and in part the depressed prices for the loot will help with that as it will move on those who are just taking part in the immediate gold rush post changes.

If lots of people are doing it, that's a successful expansion.
Of course, there's always going to be someone like you who cries about everything.

But, there's no expansion to be seen here, it's just an altered way of doing things the easiest
possible way.

But, there's no expansion to be seen here, it's just an altered way of doing things the easiest
possible way.

I would add a higher barrier for entry in another way.
I dont know what but im not paid to come up with ideas. im just a forumite.

I'm not complaining, I used to have to risk a tengu to make 100 mill a hour, now I use a 2 mill fit heron and make double that from a decent site.

anybody who ran the sites last week, before the weekend, needs to run them again. Try tonight. Sites that last week were putting good isk out are diluted now since the value of items crashed.

I put a lot of though, skill training and effort as well as real life money and in game isk into being able to run these sites Pre-Oddysey. Now all that effort seems a little wasted and look at all the problems CCP is going to have work through. Ugh, what a mess

Nope, not where I am.


You should try harder.

Nope, not where I am.


You should try harder.

anybody who ran the sites last week, before the weekend, needs to run them again. Try tonight. Sites that last week were putting good isk out are diluted now since the value of items crashed.

What items are you relying on that unchanged income on? I can see the low chance/low quantity items being largely unaffected, since they are either rare or exploration provides only a small fraction of the overall pool for some items. Things like faction/deadspace items and salvage should keep their value. Other items coming directly from exploration seem to be pretty clearly tanking at a fast pace. Decryptors naturally being hit the hardest having lost more then half their value already in a matter of just a few days with prices continuing to drop.

I'm sure deadspace items are going to tank soon as well. Before the update ded sites were hidden along with normal combat sites.Now those are filtered out . I've quit playing because the amount of time it now takes to find a site is unreal. Everyone is scanning and guess where ded site are. They ruined this game.

I see absolutely no problem here. It used to be hard and loot value was higher, now exploration is a 'starter' profession and almost as easy as mining and so get what you deserve i.e. 1-2 mil decryptors. There were prosoped a bunch of idiotic ideas like:
-adding faction modes. That would simply crash their prices as well as even more players will start exploring
-adding specialization skills. The game is already full of unnecessary SP requirements that players have to grind.
-adding rats. Kind of to promote dual-boxing, right?

Easy mode = trash loot. Fair?

I see absolutely no problem here. It used to be hard and loot value was higher, now exploration is a 'starter' profession and almost as easy as mining and so get what you deserve i.e. 1-2 mil decryptors. There were prosoped a bunch of idiotic ideas like:
-adding faction modes. That would simply crash their prices as well as even more players will start exploring
-adding specialization skills. The game is already full of unnecessary SP requirements that players have to grind.
-adding rats. Kind of to promote dual-boxing, right?

Easy mode = trash loot. Fair?

P.S. It probably will settle at some point. Inventors might decide that decryptors now are worthy for modules as well. Now demand don't seem to be too elastic (but give it a time).

I spent a good amount of time doing exploration since odyssey dropped and i've been tripping over DED sites left and right. Consider leaving high sec.

That's the catch.
JF, Black Ops and Marauder.

Anything else you don't need a decryptor. The meta base will get the copy. Anything else, you are competing with T2 BPO's and nothing will break the advantage.

Just did a relic site in low, got a bunch of trade goods (worth functionally nothing) and yes I grabbed 5 spew cans from each of the "relics." In the past doing an archaeology or salvage site in low was worth at least a couple of million between bounties and the salvage. No way is this worth risking a buzzard plus fit plus my clone.

Look who didn't bother to read anything before whining, guys. Look.

It's this guy.

Blaming someone because they don't know or use the cargo scanner method is dumb.

He was just doing the site as it was intended.

Implying that using a cargo scanner to scan cargo is unintended?

Considering the ability to do so didn't happen until the day before release, I would say no.

We're revisiting the loot but a lot of this is due to the sheer increase in number of people using the feature. Six times more people doing it makes a huge supply side change! The data and relic sites in particular are seeing a awful lot of visitors. Things will obviously adjust as people drift off to other things and in part the depressed prices for the loot will help with that as it will move on those who are just taking part in the immediate gold rush post changes.

Look who didn't bother to read anything before whining, guys. Look.

It's this guy.

Always a pleasure to be attacked by a forum troll for not being up to date on undocumented "features" of a brand new expansion.

Back to your bridge, the grownups would like to actually discuss this messed up system.

The only idiotic thing is your incoherent and condescending babbling. It was harder because of rats and higher skill barrier. Now that's suddenly idiotic? But the easy mode is idiotic too and people deserve getting crap loot, right? Gotcha.
How about some constructive comments instead.

No, next you will dumb down invention. Then the market can really crash.

Hey, how about an invention mini game! You can even have beakers and stuff!

CCP's goal is to nerf your isk so they buff their cash. OP doesn't understand this?

We're revisiting the loot but a lot of this is due to the sheer increase in number of people using the feature. Six times more people doing it makes a huge supply side change! The data and relic sites in particular are seeing a awful lot of visitors. Things will obviously adjust as people drift off to other things and in part the depressed prices for the loot will help with that as it will move on those who are just taking part in the immediate gold rush post changes.

Changing loot tables will not accomplish anything becuase it will not adress the issue you have created.

"Exploration" is to much hello kitty level now.

We're revisiting the loot but a lot of this is due to the sheer increase in number of people using the feature. Six times more people doing it makes a huge supply side change! The data and relic sites in particular are seeing a awful lot of visitors. Things will obviously adjust as people drift off to other things and in part the depressed prices for the loot will help with that as it will move on those who are just taking part in the immediate gold rush post changes.

That's the catch.
JF, Black Ops and Marauder.

Anything else you don't need a decryptor. The meta base will get the copy. Anything else, you are competing with T2 BPO's and nothing will break the advantage.

Guess that explains why the smart rich guys holding T2 BPO's were dumping them like mad a couple weeks before Odyssey was released.

Invention costs are becoming a joke, T2 raw material costs have taken a massive dump.
The payback period on T2 BPO's just doubled.

It's pretty well documented by now, and you're not discussing, is the thing.

Your post was a whine post, and it wasn't even a moderately legitimate whine post because you hadn't actually bothered to educate yourself on the workings of the system first. It was an ignorant whine post.

Please, tell me what you imagine that could possibly contribute to a discussion.

Maybe the concept of data means nothing to you. I have been doing exploration since you had to use different probes for different types of sites. I did exploration in the new system the way the feature was described. I got crap results. That is what the average user of this feature can expect.

Also even after using the cargo scanner on several hi sec relic sites I still got next to nothing for the effort. The amount of salvage was miniscule and the other stuff remains trade goods that are effectively valueless.

Sisi

How about this: low the loot drops in high sec, where these sites can be farmed without risk, and increase the loot drop in low/null, where there is risk.

Maybe the concept of data means nothing to you.

I have been doing exploration since you had to use different probes for different types of sites.

I did exploration in the new system the way the feature was described. I got crap results. That is what the average user of this feature can expect.

Also even after using the cargo scanner on several hi sec relic sites I still got next to nothing for the effort. The amount of salvage was miniscule and the other stuff remains trade goods that are effectively valueless.

I'd like to note that WH Data/Relic sites still have their rats, just saying. consistency?

We're revisiting the loot but a lot of this is due to the sheer increase in number of people using the feature. Six times more people doing it makes a huge supply side change! The data and relic sites in particular are seeing a awful lot of visitors. Things will obviously adjust as people drift off to other things and in part the depressed prices for the loot will help with that as it will move on those who are just taking part in the immediate gold rush post changes.

Which really aught to have been factored into the decision process when planning this fuster cluck of a change, don't you think ?
Unless of course the original intention was to put a bullet through the skull of this particular element of the game so that you could then push something to replace it with as being a "major improvement to the current situation" even though it would have been seen as a detrimental change to Pre 04/06/2013.......

WH Data/Relic sites are in WHs.

It's intentional.

No, you cannot have combat-free sleeper loot.

Prices are falling and falling and falling...
Why? Easy to answer: Absolute risk-free money gaining mechanic, everybody - even a 5-day-rookie - can make billions with a simple t1-frigate. Nothing to invest here, nothing to loose here. Just flying and collecting the money...

The old system maybe was a bit... bad... but it had some important factors;
- risk
- investement
- risk through investment
- more time consuming

You had to kill npc's and risk your ship - just get them back and the system is fine. Not as many as before but enough to force people in better sites to use better ships and risk them.
The exploration system in its current state doesnt scale well, no risk in every site, regardless of its quality, in every system in new eden - except for the loot!

We need the risk back guys! Thats all! No T1-Frig billionaires in 0.0-Space anymore pls!

WH Data/Relic sites are in WHs.

It's intentional.

No, you cannot have combat-free sleeper loot.

Prices are falling and falling and falling...
Why? Easy to answer: Absolute risk-free money gaining mechanic, everybody - even a 5-day-rookie - can make billions with a simple t1-frigate. Nothing to invest here, nothing to loose here. Just flying and collecting the money...

The old system maybe was a bit... bad... but it had some important factors;
- risk
- investement
- risk through investment
- more time consuming

You had to kill npc's and risk your ship - just get them back and the system is fine. Not as many as before but enough to force people in better sites to use better ships and risk them.
The exploration system in its current state doesnt scale well, no risk in every site, regardless of its quality, in every system in new eden - except for the loot!

We need the risk back guys! Thats all! No T1-Frig billionaires in 0.0-Space anymore pls!

We need the risk back. Some kind of penalty for failing at the first hacking attempt. NPC-Spawn, 2.-Try-Timer, anything.
Right now the low risk low income consequence is okay, but somehow you need to make the high-SP-Players happy, too.

We need the risk back. Some kind of penalty for failing at the first hacking attempt. NPC-Spawn, 2.-Try-Timer, anything.
Right now the low risk low income consequence is okay, but somehow you need to make the high-SP-Players happy, too.

How about:

If you fail the 2nd attempt you have 3 seconds before it explodes.

On explosion a 'bomb trap' goes off that does x damage depending on difficulty of the sight at a range of 8km.

Level 4/5 sites should do enough Dmg to 1 shot an UN-tanked frig.

Level 6/7 sites should do enough dmg to 1 shot an un-tanked cruiser.

All else should do enough to one shot an un-tanked BC.


Yes, do this :D

Well prices for Data sites loots already crashed hard.

Atm, i think the problem is that making people able to do this sites with a scrub frig which costs something like 2 millions even fitted is a mistake.

Yes it allows even noobs to come in low sec and do this sites, but at what price?

1.) There is no risk to do this sites
2.) If everyone do this sites which nearly no one made before the price will stay low, and so the interest in doing this sites will be hugely lowered. I dont think an equilibrium will be reached, i mean i dont think prices will go hugely up again. Even before the patch the loots from this sites where kinda hard to sell. What would mean that its the whole invention process that would need a relook at.
3.) It cuts off rewards for everyone, the guy doing the site will have scrub loot with his scrub frig, the pirate chasing the explorers will have scrub targets.

So yeah, basicly this system bring no risk and so no worthy reward for everyone.

I think a way to solve the problem would be to put again npcs in the sites to force people to bring explorers ships AND combat ships (teamwork, wasnt it the goal of the mini containers?)

And so increase the risk and difficulty of the sites.

Having the cake and eat it breaks the game for everyone.

What about you just go to WH and enjoy rats there.

What about you just stay in high sec and enjoy non risk plexs/missions?

20 legion + 5 guardian snuff box blob fleet only captures trash frigs recently? hahaha.
It was already risk free for u and u are disappointed cos now it is risk free for every1.
Just unsub, noone cares.

I Just came back from a long break mostly because I saw the changes in exploration. After getting out there in high/low/null and scanning I can honestly say that the system was improved by leaps and bounds.

Seriously, the sites used to be lack luster overall -- most of the time it was just a change of pace from the anoms/DED sites and you really only cleared the data/hacking sites in order to get other anoms to spawn.

What was the worst were those damn cans that always refused to bust open, leaving you with your modules on for over 5 minutes failing over and over.

Now, with that said....

Can you guys stop whining??!?!?!

This happens every time a major change is implemented!!!! It's not some new concept. Remember PI? All those materials crashed hard because of the influx of people. It's fine now.

Give it time.

The overall thing to take away from the situation is that an ASPECT OF THE GAME WAS IMPROVED!!

Stop acting like a member of CCP came into your house, kicked your dog, and slept with your girlfriend.

Time will not bring back shiny tengus in this plexs. Nor decent prices for Data/Relic sites loots.

An aspect of the game has not been improved, but it has been changed with good things, and bad things, as usual with CCP.
Get a brain, and stop being a ccp fangirl.

Off topic: you see that even in fail fit trash frigs it is possible to demonstrate an amazing ISK efficiency?

You still can find tengus in WHs. Try it

Off topic: you see that even in fail fit trash frigs it is possible to demonstrate an amazing ISK efficiency?

As i already said, you still can stay in high sec for non risk scrub stuff, gtfo. (And for what you say about wh, i already do it, if it can make you happy. Oddly there is way more **** frigs doing data/relic sites in low sec than tengus doing plexs in whs, why? Hmmmmmm riskyrisky.)
Also, having an "amazing isk efficiency" is really easy when you dont take any risk and doesnt mean you're any good. You sir are a scrublord.

are you saying it's easier to catch invisible T2 ships than invisible T3 ships?

are you saying it's easier to catch invisible T2 ships than invisible T3 ships?

What about you just go to WH and enjoy rats there.

Please tell us what your agenda is regarding the topic. I only see non-constructive babbling from you.

Agenda is very simple: you stop whining about rats.

Anyone who cries about cheap decryptors needs to use them first.

They want to make ISK from their loot?
I want to actually have a snowballs chance in hell of saving ISK when I invent and produce my own ships. It doesn't work out that way though.

Nope, not where I am.


You should try harder.