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Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 1 post(s) |
Crazyfist
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Posted - 2005.11.09 13:49:00 -
[1]
as a startnote, this post is not intended to be completely serious, and i just thought it could be a good topic to discuss.
we all know EvE is a game, a very addictive game, but still a game. But are there aspects in eve that can be related to real life, for example the destruction of other players ships. if i destroy a raven for example, if i wait at a gate and blow it up so i can take the resulting can of modules, does that have any connetations for a religious person here?
i mean, that person may have worked for weeks to get that raven, and as an analogy to real life, he could have saved up for ages to buy a new DVD player, and then i go and steal it, to sell it for cash, is that somewhat like killing a hard worked for ship so i can profit from the modules.
does anyone reading this, who is religious, would they not pvp becuase of any moral implications?
none of these are my specific viewpoints, so dont call me a carebear ect. perosnally i have been a pirate, and intend to do it this time again (this is my second time in eve)
just thought this might be fun to discuss.
regards, Fist
'What we do in EvE, Echoes In Eternity' |
Jenny Spitfire
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Posted - 2005.11.09 13:51:00 -
[2]
Edited by: Jenny Spitfire on 09/11/2005 13:51:45
Well, I am doing it because others have done so on me. Best is, you are a completely new player, you will need to die a few times or perhaps need to be podded a few times as well. Then, you will turn bitter, sour and dark. Only then, a true killer you be.  
Kill or be killed!
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RecruitMe@NOINT! |
Dionysus Davinci
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Posted - 2005.11.09 13:52:00 -
[3]
Edited by: Dionysus Davinci on 09/11/2005 13:52:42
Well, I sure do hope fake murder doesn't count as real murder or I will be getting that special place and hell. Also, so would my victims for cloaning and playing god 
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Famine Aligher'ri
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Posted - 2005.11.09 14:00:00 -
[4]
Well like you said EVE is just a game. Nothing is real and you're playing a ROLE in game. All roles are pretty much accepted by CCP and looked at as your TRADE. CCP has denounced any LEVEL GRIND and accepted there is a ISK GRIND. Pirates exploit this and cause more players to have a harder time ISK GRINDING. For the most part it is very disrespectful to other players and upsets people EVEN if it is just a GAME. Players come here to have fun and to do something they feel they accomplished (Buying a shiny new Raven) and then someone like me destroys it for fun or isk. Which is very upsetting to the player itself. Some don't really consider it because most people want to use the word "pwned" yet me personally I still consider it very bad yet still do it. Because it's just a GAME.
My religious background is Jewish and yeah really has nothing to do with the GAME accept for the fact it is addictive and would be wrong for me to play heh.
-Famine Aligher'ri, of The Aligher'ri
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Nicholai Pestot
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Posted - 2005.11.09 15:27:00 -
[5]
An interesting question, but i ask you this..
Is it morally wrong to shoot someone in UT 2005 or Battlefield 2? No, because that is part of the game.It would, infact, be morally and socially questionable for the other person to complain because they were shot (see:-sore looser)
In the same way having your assets blown up is part of the game you are playing in eve.You play EvE in the knowledge that at any time any asset you currently control can be destroyed.Vengance and such in-game is fine, but attaching any deep out of game feeling off loss to this is once again morally and socially questionable.
Additionally the assets in eve do not belong to you, they belong to CCP and CCP have no problem with these assets being destroyed.
If you borrowed a pen after spending days bugging the owner to lend it to you and,after you using it for a few hours at the behest of the pens owner, a third party destroyed that pen, would they be morally wrong?
No, the pen is not yours, you have no claim over it despite how long you devoted to borrowing that pen.
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I have supped the milk of human kindness, and discovered i am lactose intolerant |
Jamius
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Posted - 2005.11.09 16:54:00 -
[6]
I don't consider this a religious debate but a moral one yes. Just wanted to be clear on that as I consider myself totally athiest.
There is a fact in Eve that no other game I have played in is true. You have to work real real hard to get stuff that you use. From the travelling to the learning to the planning - it all takes 1 thing - time and lots of it. You lose it and it's gone forever or until you work for it again. No save points, nothing, just an in-sufficient insurance payout and the losing party having thier nights gaming ruined as they had planned it.
It is this effort that relates to the bad feeling pirates create when they pop someones ship and cost them several days work. And I think the bad feelings are warranted too. Within reason of course.
I do not care if it is in a game or not. It is real genuine effort and that's what counts. The "it's only a game" excuse really bugs me - it is lame and I am tired of hearing it.
For the record I am a pirate now after being well against it. How do I live with myself when I too think that when I pop someones barge it could really have ruined thier night?
Well the game itself with it's bugs resulting in losses backed up by, in many cases, a totally unnaceptable petition procedure means that by playing the game itself you are likely to take far more losses due to bugs than any pirate player.
I became a pirate due to getting totally sh!t on by the game itself, not anyone playing it. I just stopped caring as many at CCP obviously do and I ain't trying to be decent in a game that will inherantly be indecent to you by it's nature and blemishes.
So for me, by definition, if you play Eve you must be happy to accept losing lots and lots of stuff and having lots and lots of your time wasted as it will happen. How is up to the care you take.
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Jenny Spitfire
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Posted - 2005.11.09 17:12:00 -
[7]
TBH, from experience, every loss will hurt a lot in Eve until you reach a point where your ISKs is roughly 100M, then losing wont be that hard. First 6 months of Eve is hell, at least for me.
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RecruitMe@NOINT! |
Lardarz B'stard
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Posted - 2005.11.09 17:20:00 -
[8]
This is a game as you rightly point out, therefore you can do whatever you like without fear of divine retribution. I have wrestled with the moral consequences of killing other characters and robbing their stuff cheap off escrow etc etc and discovered them to be non-existant. Do unto others as you would have them do unto you does not apply in virtual space.
I don't recall "thou shalt not attack thine virtual enemy's virtual battleship with thine virtual cannons of doom" being one of the ten commandments for example. Said enemy's battleship is most likely insured, albeit with virtual wealth, anyway.
As long as you are not putting down the player-behind-the-character's religious beliefs in chat channels etc then all is good. There is no such thing as a virtual version of real life religion. Any religion your character follows in Eve is likely to be entirely made up, so you shouldn't feel bad about doing anything.
To suggest that there are any moral implications of Eve in real life is like saying that people who racially abuse Minmatar characters purely because they look stupid, smell bad and make ships out of rubbish is a racist in real life.
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Lexa A
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Posted - 2005.11.09 17:26:00 -
[9]
yar i know people that feel bad the first few times but in the end its fun being evil
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Jamius
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Posted - 2005.11.09 17:36:00 -
[10]
 Originally by: Lardarz B'stard
To suggest that there are any moral implications of Eve in real life is like saying that people who racially abuse Minmatar characters purely because they look stupid, smell bad and make ships out of rubbish is a racist in real life.
I disagree - there are moral implications for a person with a sense of what it takes to do anything in this game and that has a sense of decency.
Can everyone here honestly say they do not feel bad at all when having fun at others expense. Doing so is not a moral thing, within a game or not. That is what you do when you attack and destroy a ship that you know fine well will never beat you. You prey on the weak and innocent - it's a fact.
I do it and every time I pop a ship that can't or won't fight back I feel no joy whatsoever. The stalk is fun but it's real fights where the buzz is.
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Ephrim
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Posted - 2005.11.09 18:03:00 -
[11]
Great topic!
I've been playing on-line games since I was dialing up to my local BBS on my 2400 baud modem. And one thing that I've found to be absolutely true is that the anonymity of the internet (and the games thereon) truly bring out the innermost, basic character of a person.
To say "this is just a game - morality does not apply" is bogus. By virtue of the fact that your actions [i]affect other people directly [/i, everything you do here a moral decision. You may choose to disbelieve it, or to minimize it, but it makes it no less true (and the your decision is itself a reflection of one's moral character).
I'm not saying that someone who is a pirate in-game would kill and steal outside of the game. But I would say that they are more likely to do so than someone who doesn't pirate. What makes pirating in EVE common is that it is actually legal and expected in some areas of the game; in fact, a large part of the economy of the game is based on the assumption of PvP pirating. So I feel that folks who have a loose sense of morality and don't mind profiting from other's misery will do so when they opportunity arises. It is only that, in real life, the opportunity to do so with litle or no chance of retribution rarely occurs that holds these people in check.
See: any "third world" country.
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Dionysus Davinci
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Posted - 2005.11.09 18:07:00 -
[12]
Edited by: Dionysus Davinci on 09/11/2005 18:11:12
Originally by: Jamius
Can everyone here honestly say they do not feel bad at all when having fun at others expense.
Nope. It actually makes it more fun, simple because it means they are taking a game way to seriously.
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Lardarz B'stard
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Posted - 2005.11.09 18:15:00 -
[13]
Originally by: Dionysus Davinci
Edited by: Dionysus Davinci on 09/11/2005 18:11:12
Originally by: Jamius
Can everyone here honestly say they do not feel bad at all when having fun at others expense.
Nope. It actually makes it more fun, simple because it means they are taking a game way to seriously.
You do, like maybe once or twice, the first time someone loses something because of your actions. This doesn't stop you doing it again, and I don't feel bad when people do it to me, either.
Proud member of the 70-odd thousand |
Thomas Torquemada
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Posted - 2005.11.09 18:24:00 -
[14]
Edited by: Thomas Torquemada on 09/11/2005 18:24:37
Personally i think you read the recent dev report on the forced corp name change and have decided to post this totally pointless topic.
That or your totally off the mark and are actually serious, if so what exactly does theft have to do with religion in any way shape or form....
Nothing.
I blow stuff up because i enjoy it and mining is boring, i do what i want, others do what they want, simple as...
UPC - PVP'ers Good and Bad, How Do You Want Peace?
Through Talk Or In A Casket? We Decide!
Peace My Brothers... |
Pa1nbringr
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Posted - 2005.11.09 18:26:00 -
[15]
when i go to church im hungover and i just act like im praying the whole time but im really asleep, but if im not asleep im hungover and finding all the hot chicks there and i imagine what they look like naked, so no religion has no damn influence over me 
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JoCool
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Posted - 2005.11.09 19:56:00 -
[16]
Most players in EVE are christians, so Allah thinks it's fine to *****and hunt them down
allah akbarr allah akbahr
_______________________________________________________________________
Trey Azagthoth > Youre my idol Jocool. I wanna be like Jocool jr. or Jocool the sequel!
Oveur > ohnoes jocool |
vecdran
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Posted - 2005.11.09 20:16:00 -
[17]
Originally by: JoCool
Most players in EVE are christians, so Allah thinks it's fine to *****and hunt them down
allah akbarr allah akbahr
Wow, what an intelligent post.
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Crazyfist
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Posted - 2005.11.09 20:21:00 -
[18]
thankyou for the (serious) replies to this.
id like to point out, the points in my first post arent any of my own viewpoints, i was just fielding some views.
i can see both points of the argument. - and yes, i suppose this apply more to 'morals' than religion.
'What we do in EvE, Echoes In Eternity' |
Slink Grinsdikild
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Posted - 2005.11.09 20:24:00 -
[19]
Originally by: Dionysus Davinci
Originally by: Jamius
Can everyone here honestly say they do not feel bad at all when having fun at others expense.
Nope. It actually makes it more fun, simple because it means they are taking a game way to seriously.
Exactly, and you don't have to be a pirate to feel that way. I like EVE, but I havn't got issues about it.. unlike some. Sometimes I come across people that I just want to grab by the short and curlies and shout at the top of my voice "ITS ONLY A BUNCH OF PIXELS!"
Seriously, calm down people. 
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Grehb
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Posted - 2005.11.09 21:51:00 -
[20]
when it's time to fight, fight - don't pray.
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Cummilla
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Posted - 2005.11.09 22:32:00 -
[21]
Originally by: Pa1nbringr
when i go to church im hungover and i just act like im praying the whole time but im really asleep, but if im not asleep im hungover and finding all the hot chicks there and i imagine what they look like naked, so no religion has no damn influence over me
ROFL
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Trey Azagthoth
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Posted - 2005.11.10 03:06:00 -
[22]
Destroy the infidels! Seriously though, organized religion sucks, I dont need to talk to god through someone else...
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Razner Cerizo
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Posted - 2005.11.10 03:20:00 -
[23]
I burn all heretics who do not give worship to Shinni Isque, my money god.
GIVE RAZNER AN OFFERING, OR BE BURNED FOR YOUR TRANSGRESSIONS.
_____________
VHI - Yes, we are belt pirates.
No, we wont make stuff for you :( |
Grankor
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Posted - 2005.11.10 06:35:00 -
[24]
In general, I stopped killing miners/noobs/and haulers in low sec, cause its more devistating to them than it is beneficial to me. Its much more of a challenge to kill another pirate, or pvp'er.
Now, anyone KOS...I dont care if they are flying a nun home, I'll pod both of them.
And of course, the occasional bug up my ass that causes me to kill at will..
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Razner Cerizo
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Posted - 2005.11.10 06:54:00 -
[25]
I love how when you made that post, your latest kill is an Iteron.
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VHI - Yes, we are belt pirates.
No, we wont make stuff for you :( |
Grankor
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Posted - 2005.11.10 08:22:00 -
[26]
Originally by: Razner Cerizo
I love how when you made that post, your latest kill is an Iteron.
Thats why I use words like 'generally'
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Razner Cerizo
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Posted - 2005.11.10 08:39:00 -
[27]
You are such a tricky beast, you.
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VHI - Yes, we are belt pirates.
No, we wont make stuff for you :( |
TuRtLe HeAd
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Posted - 2005.11.10 09:12:00 -
[28]
I do it in game, because out of game its against the law. And I'd end up in jail. The relation between RL and GAme is pretty similar, There is lawless zones in the world where Murder,Theft, Naughty stuff go unnoticed, Just as there is 0.4 >
no religion involved at all. I Just want the kill mail and the Cargo.
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"Its not Feasible to Dismiss an Idea because of lag" |
Mnengli Noiliffe
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Posted - 2005.11.10 09:52:00 -
[29]
in 1st action shooters, the amount of work destroyed by fragging is negligable. In addition, shooters' only possible interaction is fragging.
Contrary, in EVE, the destroyed amount of work is huge, it's weeks and months of work. In addition, gameplay allows for many other in game activities.
Therefore, it is incorrect to compare EVE fragging with 1st person shooter's fragging.
In other words, real life analogue of comparing EVE killing with FPS killing is comparing robbery and property destruction (I would add murder but you can't really die in EVE) with shooting people while playing paintball.
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Gonada
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Posted - 2005.11.10 12:10:00 -
[30]
arghh ~! please keep your religous beliefs to yourself.
devs should nip this thread in the bud
-Baby can you dig your man-
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