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Tau Cabalander
Retirement Retreat
Working Stiffs
1915
   |
Posted - 2013.06.10 17:16:00 -
[31] - Quote
Has anybody yet asked, why?
Jita already runs on its own server, so moving it isn't useful. |
Vincenzo Arbosa
Badabing Salvage Corp
14
|
Posted - 2013.06.10 17:35:00 -
[32] - Quote
I would be opposed to any additional links making the universe any smaller or more GÇÿaccessibleGÇÖ than it already is, including the Hek -> Rens suggestion above. If demand is high enough to move certain goods to other regions, it will happen organically. Eventually a player base will not spend 300% markup on goods and someone will decide to increase the supply, these sorts of things will accumulate with time, and new markets will sprout, and eventually perhaps a new hub. I donGÇÖt want anything forced in this game though, as it kills that potential for gamesmanship in the markets. Let it happen as it will happen. If Jita access continues to be an issue, increase server capacity there, or watch as the surrounding systems slowly become more and more active.
You shoot em, we loot em.. that's mother truckinGÇÖ right
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JuyLTDAC7fE
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_oz3RpU45_E
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Kara Books
Deal with IT.
647
|
Posted - 2013.06.10 17:47:00 -
[33] - Quote
I was drunk when I wrote this |
Esyavore Lando
Talu Shaya
Talu Shaya Empire
6
|
Posted - 2013.06.10 18:37:00 -
[34] - Quote
I checked the low sec access of New Caldari . Its slighly better than Jita.
New Caldari - Aurohunen : 3 Jumps (Jita 4 )
New Caldari - Pakkonen: 4 Jumps (Jita 4 )
New Caldari - Tama: 4 Jumps (Jita 4 )
New Caldari - Jan: 4 Jumps (Jita 5 )
New Caldari - Mara: 4 Jumps (Jita 5 )
New Caldari Passari: 5 Jumps (Jita 5)
New Caldari - Maila (Forge) 9 Jumps (Jita 10)
Some demand is already there. Today I sold an item for 54 million in New Caldari which costed 25 in Jita at the time. I guess because of traffic jam.
Also I checked the area around Kaaputenen but didnt find a satisfying place. |
Apelacja
Gods products
26
|
Posted - 2013.06.10 19:04:00 -
[35] - Quote
2 jita`s will be ok imo. One can have higher prices however CCP would need to add jump gates to the new system.
And of coz it will have to be in forge anyway.
But....but tbh, even jtia lack many of needed items especially after weekend. Problem is that u have to many bots macroes running in jita and AFK ppl and logistic become to painfull right now. |
Esyavore Lando
Talu Shaya
Talu Shaya Empire
6
|
Posted - 2013.06.10 19:08:00 -
[36] - Quote
I dont expect CCP to change anything but server capacity if needed. This endeavor should be player driven, not imposed by CCP. |
Adunh Slavy
939
|
Posted - 2013.06.10 19:37:00 -
[37] - Quote
You can trade in Jita, with out having to go into Jita ya know. |
Samroski
Games Inc.
The Night Crew Alliance
247
|
Posted - 2013.06.11 05:38:00 -
[38] - Quote
Esyavore Lando wrote:I checked the low sec access of New Caldari . Its slighly better than Jita.
New Caldari - Aurohunen : 3 Jumps (Jita 4 )
New Caldari - Pakkonen: 4 Jumps (Jita 4 )
New Caldari - Tama: 4 Jumps (Jita 4 )
New Caldari - Jan: 4 Jumps (Jita 5 )
New Caldari - Mara: 4 Jumps (Jita 5 )
New Caldari Passari: 5 Jumps (Jita 5)
New Caldari - Maila (Forge) 9 Jumps (Jita 10)
Some demand is already there. Today I sold an item for 54 million in New Caldari which costed 25 in Jita at the time. I guess because of traffic jam.
Also I checked the area around Kaaputenen but didnt find a satisfying place.
So is New Caldari one jump further away when coming from Amarr or Gallente space? Does one have to pass through Jita to get to New Caldari?
I do not think it is a good idea to bank on not being able to get into Jita, or logging in alts into Jita to block it up. The new hub should attract customers without relying entirely on the traffic jam. Yes, certainly take advantage of the jam to establish the hub, but the jam may not last long, if CCP have any sense.
Why don't we just dump lots of stuff in New Caldari and see if it sells? Which station to use?
Also: another place one jump from Jita which is reasonably well established is Soebeski. The Caldari Navy station there has a pretty active market, though it is in Lonetrek. There's usually a jam there as well, as people use this route to get to Jita from much of Caldari space.
Any colour you like. |
Grozen
Titan Core
11
|
Posted - 2013.06.11 06:31:00 -
[39] - Quote
This is not possible to do because to move jita you need the biggest ISK holders in eve to cooperate and it will still cost hundreds of trillions Just by taking the taxes into account.Last I heard not many have several hundred trillion to trow away.
knowledge is power. |
SJ Astralana
Syncore
0
|
Posted - 2013.06.11 08:54:00 -
[40] - Quote
One simple long-overdue game mechanic could solve the congestion problem. As office rents are now demand-driven, if production slots received the same mechanic, costs would naturally drop the farther you get from the established hubs. Even though my production model would have to adapt, I still would support this change for the overall good and fairness of the game. |
Jori McKie
Friends Of Harassment
74
|
Posted - 2013.06.11 09:35:00 -
[41] - Quote
SJ Astralana wrote:One simple long-overdue game mechanic could solve the congestion problem. As office rents are now demand-driven, if production slots received the same mechanic, costs would naturally drop the farther you get from the established hubs. Even though my production model would have to adapt, I still would support this change for the overall good and fairness of the game.
I didn't know that. Yesterday i somehow clicked on the office thingie and i'm pretty sure it showed 1.6b per 30days in Jita for an Office. Bug, whatever i wasn't that interested but your comment explains a lot and some corps will burn a lot of cash just by not knowing. |
Oska Rus
Free Ice Cream People
14
|
Posted - 2013.06.11 14:21:00 -
[42] - Quote
lets try to put it in numbers:
market manipulation in jita of one comodity requires trilion+ isk. multiply it by 8500 and youl end in tens of quadrilions at least.
also market manipulation of one comodity in jita requires tens of manhours a month multiplyed by 8500 youll end in hundreds of thousands manhours a month. one player can have output about 50 manhours a month that makes thousands players.
so if you dont have:
1) 10 000 000 000 000 000 isk in your pocket
2) 2000 players dedicated to this cause
you are only bulshitting on forums lol. |
Samroski
Games Inc.
The Night Crew Alliance
247
|
Posted - 2013.06.11 15:10:00 -
[43] - Quote
There is a lot of negativity in this thread, and that's totally understandable. What OP suggests is next to impossible. Plus the fact that apparently previous efforts (and discussions) at establishing hubs have met with failure.
Even though the figures quoted above are in all likelihood reflective of the reality, I love fantasizing and experimentation. I've got stockpiles of all kinds of stuff at Jita rotting away, which I may just all dump at New Caldari or wherever. Taxes and fees may be an issue in the greater scheme of things, but somehow they don't bother me.
Like all such projects, a critical mass needs to be achieved, and then the process becomes self-sustaining. What exactly the critical mass is, I have little idea, but it is likely to be a fraction of the total assets currently at Jita. 30%? less? more
Any colour you like. |
Solaris Ecladia
High Flyers
Ex Cinere Scriptor
78
|
Posted - 2013.06.11 16:02:00 -
[44] - Quote
The last time i remember the biggest trade hub moving (Yulai), is when CCP decided to remove some gates or something odd like that. Dont really remember too long ago. But I willing to bet if it werent for that, youd have a "Lets move Yulai!" thread here instead. |
Lady Molefield
Burpies Incorporated
0
|
Posted - 2013.06.11 16:07:00 -
[45] - Quote
Jita is the hub for reasons beyond just "hey, let's all sell in Jita." It's driven by the eve-economy just like Amarr and Rens are, it's just better. There is a huge amount of space that Jita services because of the logistic capabilities afforded by JFs and nothing will change that (aside from moving space or gates).
OP, to accomplish what you want to accomplish, in my opinion the evaluation is this:
-How much do you need to discount your sell orders to attract people 1 jump from Jita?
-How much do you need to increase your buy orders to attract sellers 1 jump from Jita?
-Do you even need to discount/increase? Is there a point where buyers will pay more to avoid Jita? Sellers to pay less?
-If so, how much more or less?
For example, will a freighter who foolishly filled up with 100bil of all the things want to sit on a traffic controlled gate? How much will they discount their goods to avoid that gate?
Market mechanics still drive where/if the hub can spillover. There is pressure to sell outside of Jita, and that pressure is growing with the lower pop cap, so by all means, go try to capitalize on it. Train up margin trading and put up buy/sell orders 1 jump out and see how it falls out. |
Grozen
Titan Core
11
|
Posted - 2013.06.11 16:11:00 -
[46] - Quote
Samroski wrote:There is a lot of negativity in this thread, and that's totally understandable. What OP suggests is next to impossible. Plus the fact that apparently previous efforts (and discussions) at establishing hubs have met with failure.
Even though the figures quoted above are in all likelihood reflective of the reality, I love fantasizing and experimentation. I've got stockpiles of all kinds of stuff at Jita rotting away, which I may just all dump at New Caldari or wherever. Taxes and fees may be an issue in the greater scheme of things, but somehow they don't bother me.
Like all such projects, a critical mass needs to be achieved, and then the process becomes self-sustaining. What exactly the critical mass is, I have little idea, but it is likely to be a fraction of the total assets currently at Jita. 30%? less? more
There is no negativity just simply facts, the money and human power required is out of our reach.The only cheaper way for this to happen would be if there is burn jita events 24/7 for several months without break and the whole operation will still cost trillions for the entity that tries to do that.Do we have an alliance willing to do that this is what you should ask yourself.
knowledge is power. |
Samroski
Games Inc.
The Night Crew Alliance
247
|
Posted - 2013.06.11 16:19:00 -
[47] - Quote
Grozen wrote:
There is no negativity just simply facts, the money and human power required is out of our reach.The only cheaper way for this to happen would be if there is burn jita events 24/7 for several months without break and the whole operation will still cost trillions for the entity that tries to do that.Do we have an alliance willing to do that this is what you should ask yourself.
So you're saying that only the goons can do it, and even they don't want to?
btw I agree with you. Am getting more and more depressed with every nail in the coffin...
Any colour you like. |
Esyavore Lando
Talu Shaya
Talu Shaya Empire
6
|
Posted - 2013.06.11 17:50:00 -
[48] - Quote
Samroski wrote:So is New Caldari one jump further away when coming from Amarr or Gallente space? Does one have to pass through Jita to get to New Caldari?
No its the same distance because you are going through Nyabainen from Jita and New Caldari. You dont have to pass through Jita. You can look it up on dotlan. New Caldari is very well connected to Caldari space because its their capital system.
Samroski wrote:
Why don't we just dump lots of stuff in New Caldari and see if it sells? Which station to use?
As I wrote in my first post I still favor New Caldari II (Matias) Station. And you are welcome to dump there. I will do that until someone comes up with a better place. Its not a loss because you can do profit there already.
Samroski wrote:
Also: another place one jump from Jita which is reasonably well established is Soebeski. The Caldari Navy station there has a pretty active market, though it is in Lonetrek. There's usually a jam there as well, as people use this route to get to Jita from much of Caldari space.
I mentioned that before: if you have a place outside forge, customers of jita will not notice better orders at another place because they dont see it. There must be a visible comparison in the market window. |
Esyavore Lando
Talu Shaya
Talu Shaya Empire
6
|
Posted - 2013.06.11 18:16:00 -
[49] - Quote
Oska Rus wrote:lets try to put it in numbers:
market manipulation in jita of one comodity requires trilion+ isk. multiply it by 8500 and youl end in tens of quadrilions at least.
lets put some detail and real numbers to it. They are still high but not trillions for one comodity:
my source of data: http://eve-marketdata.com/ and eve central
Jita sell orders: 102 252
Isk in all sell orders: about 29 trillion isk
if you divide that by 8500 you get about 3.4 billion on one comodity average.
Some have more, like Adaptive Invulnerability Field II wit about 40 billion.
But some then have "only" a few hundred million.
I know thats still a lot of isk, but as Samroski said, you maybe dont have to cover the same amount at the new hub to get the rest following.
|
Untanas Volmyr
Running with Knives
Nexus Fleet
15
|
Posted - 2013.06.11 18:27:00 -
[50] - Quote
Next expansion - Jita gets sucked into a wormhole. What if? |
Esyavore Lando
Talu Shaya
Talu Shaya Empire
6
|
Posted - 2013.06.11 18:33:00 -
[51] - Quote
Lady Molefield wrote:Jita is the hub for reasons beyond just "hey, let's all sell in Jita." It's driven by the eve-economy just like Amarr and Rens are, it's just better. There is a huge amount of space that Jita services because of the logistic capabilities afforded by JFs and nothing will change that (aside from moving space or gates)..
As New Caldari is closer to lowsec, JFs would, depending on direction, have to make 1 jump less or same distance. The only aspect I see Jita better in, is the number of stations for production in Jita system itself. But if you count in all stations within 1 jump, New Caldari has more. So tell me what on Jita is better than New Caldari II besides the players.
Lady Molefield wrote:
OP, to accomplish what you want to accomplish, in my opinion the evaluation is this:
-How much do you need to discount your sell orders to attract people 1 jump from Jita?
-How much do you need to increase your buy orders to attract sellers 1 jump from Jita?
-Do you even need to discount/increase? Is there a point where buyers will pay more to avoid Jita? Sellers to pay less?
-If so, how much more or less?
For example, will a freighter who foolishly filled up with 100bil of all the things want to sit on a traffic controlled gate? How much will they discount their goods to avoid that gate?
Market mechanics still drive where/if the hub can spillover. There is pressure to sell outside of Jita, and that pressure is growing with the lower pop cap, so by all means, go try to capitalize on it. Train up margin trading and put up buy/sell orders 1 jump out and see how it falls out.
You are right with these thoughts. And I am already trading In New Caldari. My experience so far is, that there is profit to be made. You can sell even higher than Jita right now. I cant keep up with production. |
Victoria Sin
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
264
|
Posted - 2013.06.11 18:35:00 -
[52] - Quote
I have absolutely NO IDEA why you want to move Jita. Most producers don't produce at Jita. A lot of buyers don't live in or close to Jita. People just head there for a well optimised price. It could be anywhere. Nobody cares!
Stop thinking about solutions to problems that don't exist. |
Esyavore Lando
Talu Shaya
Talu Shaya Empire
6
|
Posted - 2013.06.11 18:59:00 -
[53] - Quote
Victoria Sin wrote:Most producers don't produce at Jita.
there are 946 Manufacture Slots producing right now 1 Jump around Jita in Forge alone. And way more if you go 2 or 3 Jumps.
Victoria Sin wrote:A lot of buyers don't live in or close to Jita. People just head there for a well optimised price. It could be anywhere. Nobody cares!
I care. Everytime I arrive at Jita I think: man is this ugly!
On the other hand if you warp in from Nyabainen to New Caldari II you arrive at the undock side of the station. Imagine ships passing each other in opposite directions while docking and undocking. In the background a giant populated temperate planet. That has so much more style. |
Victoria Sin
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
265
|
Posted - 2013.06.11 19:05:00 -
[54] - Quote
Esyavore Lando wrote:
there are 946 Manufacture Slots producing right now 1 Jump around Jita in Forge alone. And way more if you go 2 or 3 Jumps.
Yea. That's a small proportion of the number of sellers who produce stuff and move it to Jita to sell it.
Esyavore Lando wrote:
I care. Everytime I arrive at Jita I think: man is this ugly!
So, campaign for CCP to pimp Jita?
|
Syrk
Project Cerberus
Caldari State Capturing
8
|
Posted - 2013.06.11 21:22:00 -
[55] - Quote
Victoria Sin wrote:
So, campaign for CCP to pimp Jita?
That actually would make a lot of sense, considering how much cash flow goes through there. The tax dollars should be going to something. Shovel ready!  |
Samroski
Games Inc.
The Night Crew Alliance
248
|
Posted - 2013.06.11 22:43:00 -
[56] - Quote
Victoria Sin wrote:Esyavore Lando wrote:
there are 946 Manufacture Slots producing right now 1 Jump around Jita in Forge alone. And way more if you go 2 or 3 Jumps.
Yea. That's a small proportion of the number of sellers who produce stuff and move it to Jita to sell it. Esyavore Lando wrote:
I care. Everytime I arrive at Jita I think: man is this ugly!
So, campaign for CCP to pimp Jita?
This is a more realistic goal, even though chances of success are still negligible.
Lets ask for a lava moon, and 5k cap, to be increased to 10k over 5 years.
How about some lap dancers for the traders rotting away in their quarters? Only at Jita.
Any colour you like. |
Slothook
Higher Than Everest
Black Legion.
6
|
Posted - 2013.06.11 23:55:00 -
[57] - Quote
My wife made me move our front door by 6 inches to the right once so the front of the house 'looked more even'. Took a week to do - before I started I had the same arguments with her, ultimately she won - The only way you will get a trade hub moved / new one developed is either you put a bunch of women in charge of the operation (and they are in short supply in this game)- or get CCP to reduce the taxes of the existing trade hubs, adding a couple of extra trade hubs, again with reduced taxes into the mix, thus drawing players to them who want to save a penny or two.
Personally, I'm sorry to say, but I don't think you have a chance. trade hubs morph and develop over time and do so through natural processes, it isn't something you can engineer to happen in a week, month or probably even a year.
I wish you luck, but note you are not the first to try / suggest this and I am sure you wont be the last. |
Diomedes Calypso
Aetolian Armada
86
|
Posted - 2013.06.12 03:12:00 -
[58] - Quote
Slothook wrote:My wife made me move our front door by 6 inches to the right once so the front of the house 'looked more even'. Took a week to do - before I started I had the same arguments with her, ultimately she won - The only way you will get a trade hub moved / new one developed is either you put a bunch of women in charge of the operation (and they are in short supply in this game)- or get CCP..... t.
I love this new tack of direction to the discussion
OP.. I think you just got called a woman for wanting to move Jita one jump to the left...
... and taking the idea one step further.
Pimp out Jita and let's Party
Quote:It's just a jump to the left
And then a step to the right
With your hands on your hips
You bring your knees in tight
But it's the pelvic thrust
That really drives you insane
Let's do the Time Warp again
Let's do the Time Warp again
|
Diomedes Calypso
Aetolian Armada
86
|
Posted - 2013.06.12 03:13:00 -
[59] - Quote
Slothook wrote:My wife made me move our front door by 6 inches to the right once so the front of the house 'looked more even'. Took a week to do - before I started I had the same arguments with her, ultimately she won - The only way you will get a trade hub moved / new one developed is either you put a bunch of women in charge of the operation (and they are in short supply in this game)- or get CCP..... t.
I love this new tack of direction to the discussion
OP.. I think you just got called a woman for wanting to move Jita one jump to the left...
... and taking the idea one step further.
Pimp out Jita and let's Party
Quote:It's just a jump to the left
And then a step to the right
With your hands on your hips
You bring your knees in tight
But it's the pelvic thrust
That really drives you insane
Let's do the Time Warp again
Let's do the Time Warp again
|
Gypsio III
Questionable Ethics.
Ministry of Inappropriate Footwork
749
|
Posted - 2013.06.12 10:27:00 -
[60] - Quote
Ban freighters and JFs from highsec, and watch Jita die.
Hmmm, might need to nerf the Orca's cargo too.  |
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