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Meeko Gloom |
Posted - 2005.11.12 16:11:00 -
[31] for the moros did u count the 35 or soon to be 5 hvy drones ________________________________________________ Pls Dont Flame Me Cuz I DONT Give A **** Demons of Razgis |
Meeko Gloom The Collective Against ALL Authorities |
Posted - 2005.11.12 16:11:00 -
[32] for the moros did u count the 35 or soon to be 5 hvy drones -------------------------- Guns dont Kill People Drones Do |
Toshiro Khan |
Posted - 2005.11.12 17:25:00 -
[33] Well... having faced the dreads just before their releace on SiSi.. they do indeed do a lot of damage per volly rather then having a high DPS. two examples would be the pheonix obliterating my mega in a single volly (3 torps) and seeing a naglfar getting a wreck of over 30k on a tanked raven.. effectivly popping it in a single shot. admittedly they was in siege mode at the time, but i have yet to see a gank-a-geddon reach wrecking hits that high.. or pop a BS in 1 volly. |
Toshiro Khan Gallente |
Posted - 2005.11.12 17:25:00 -
[34] Well... having faced the dreads just before their releace on SiSi.. they do indeed do a lot of damage per volly rather then having a high DPS. two examples would be the pheonix obliterating my mega in a single volly (3 torps) and seeing a naglfar getting a wreck of over 30k on a tanked raven.. effectivly popping it in a single shot. admittedly they was in siege mode at the time, but i have yet to see a gank-a-geddon reach wrecking hits that high.. or pop a BS in 1 volly. |
j0sephine |
Posted - 2005.11.12 17:53:00 -
[35] "Well, if not for the sig radius issues with towers the Phoenix is more damaging than all but the Naglfar. Using raw DPS number for the guns ignores the fact that missiles always hit but that 3 of the variable damage results for guns are 0 damage. This means that all calculated gun DPS values should be reduced 37.5% to get comparable values to missiles." Since when turrets are missing nearly 40% of shots against target that sits still within the gun's optimal? o.O (this also presumes no shots are better than 'normal', which would offset possible damage loss from the 'scratches' and 'light hits'...) |
j0sephine Caldari Reikoku Band of Brothers |
Posted - 2005.11.12 17:53:00 -
[36] "Well, if not for the sig radius issues with towers the Phoenix is more damaging than all but the Naglfar. Using raw DPS number for the guns ignores the fact that missiles always hit but that 3 of the variable damage results for guns are 0 damage. This means that all calculated gun DPS values should be reduced 37.5% to get comparable values to missiles." Since when turrets are missing nearly 40% of shots against target that sits still within the gun's optimal? o.O (this also presumes no shots are better than 'normal', which would offset possible damage loss from the 'scratches' and 'light hits'...) |
Harry Voyager |
Posted - 2005.11.12 18:16:00 -
[37] There is a damage calculator in the Player Guide on this site, that takes into account sig radius and tracking issues. It is trivially easy to verify that at optimal ranges, guns do close to 90% of their maximum damage, even to small targets, and it takes very specific circumstances for a smaller target to be able to evade even heavy gunfire. That being said, Dreadnaughts can't kill Dreadnaughts, in their current state. I think that speaks loudly to the issues with them, at the moment. Harry Voyager |
Harry Voyager Obscurity LLC |
Posted - 2005.11.12 18:16:00 -
[38] There is a damage calculator in the Player Guide on this site, that takes into account sig radius and tracking issues. It is trivially easy to verify that at optimal ranges, guns do close to 90% of their maximum damage, even to small targets, and it takes very specific circumstances for a smaller target to be able to evade even heavy gunfire. That being said, Dreadnaughts can't kill Dreadnaughts, in their current state. I think that speaks loudly to the issues with them, at the moment. Harry Voyager |
Hoozin |
Posted - 2005.11.12 18:27:00 -
[39]Originally by: Meeko Gloom Originally by: aeti That help? --------------------------------- |
Hoozin Grumpy Old Farts Gruntfuttocks |
Posted - 2005.11.12 18:27:00 -
[40]Originally by: Meeko Gloom Originally by: aeti That help? --------------------------------- |
Antic |
Posted - 2005.11.12 18:42:00 -
[41] is this taking into account the sig radious damage reduction to PoS that Citadel torps gets currently due to PoS borked Sig radius? |
Antic Caldari Swedish Aerospace Inc |
Posted - 2005.11.12 18:42:00 -
[42] is this taking into account the sig radious damage reduction to PoS that Citadel torps gets currently due to PoS borked Sig radius? |
j0sephine |
Posted - 2005.11.12 18:47:00 -
[43] "is this taking into account the sig radious damage reduction to PoS that Citadel torps gets currently due to PoS borked Sig radius?" Nope, that's calculations of damage when shooting the large (1000m signature) POS, for both missiles and guns alike. |
j0sephine Caldari Reikoku Band of Brothers |
Posted - 2005.11.12 18:47:00 -
[44] "is this taking into account the sig radious damage reduction to PoS that Citadel torps gets currently due to PoS borked Sig radius?" Nope, that's calculations of damage when shooting the large (1000m signature) POS, for both missiles and guns alike. |
Sarmaul |
Posted - 2005.11.12 19:31:00 -
[45]Originally by: aeti put it in seige mode, and you can multiply all those by 5. and OMG, a minmatar ship comes at the top of a damage dealing list. I'm so glad I've recently leart to love autocannons again :) Originally by: Chowdown |
Sarmaul 0utbreak |
Posted - 2005.11.12 19:31:00 -
[46]Originally by: aeti put it in seige mode, and you can multiply all those by 5. and OMG, a minmatar ship comes at the top of a damage dealing list. I'm so glad I've recently leart to love autocannons again :) |
j0sephine |
Posted - 2005.11.12 19:42:00 -
[47] "put it in seige mode, and you can multiply all those by 5." These numbers are siege mode... ^^ |
j0sephine Caldari Reikoku Band of Brothers |
Posted - 2005.11.12 19:42:00 -
[48] "put it in seige mode, and you can multiply all those by 5." These numbers are siege mode... ^^ |
aeti |
Posted - 2005.11.12 19:56:00 -
[49] turns out meri may have slightly overestimated the geddon dps, should be around 1200 talking about the moros and , after the patch it will be able to deploy 5 sentry drones which will have the range to hit through the shield, so lots more damamge for them with that crazy bonus I may have made a mistake with working these numbers out, so if somebody could check them it would be ace oh and to the person that says that a geddon would be useless, when actually attacking a pos with a large number of people, you find that you tend to only get 1 gun shooting at you every few mins (the fire is spread out), and by the time the next shot hits you, the people you are working with will have fixed you up np, so damage > tanking |
aeti Band of Brothers |
Posted - 2005.11.12 19:56:00 -
[50] turns out meri may have slightly overestimated the geddon dps, should be around 1200 talking about the moros and , after the patch it will be able to deploy 5 sentry drones which will have the range to hit through the shield, so lots more damamge for them with that crazy bonus I may have made a mistake with working these numbers out, so if somebody could check them it would be ace oh and to the person that says that a geddon would be useless, when actually attacking a pos with a large number of people, you find that you tend to only get 1 gun shooting at you every few mins (the fire is spread out), and by the time the next shot hits you, the people you are working with will have fixed you up np, so damage > tanking |
ArcticWolf |
Posted - 2005.11.12 20:38:00 -
[51] Edited by: ArcticWolf on 12/11/2005 20:38:02 The dreadnaught DPS outside of seige mode is way too low (vs battleships, i realise uour post is about POS), i did the figures in the first post i made stating 132 DPS, not by using the guns stats themselves, but doing extensive testing vs battleships, stationary and moving, to find diffrences, then averaged out the normal hit data. All dreadnaught skills at that date were lv 3... in siege mode that means i would do about 660 dps vs battleships. For fun i went to test server and fit a gank setup, with the mid slots 2 webbers and 2 target painters, used the close range guns with EMP and thermal, then went into seige mode. As a result of my gank setup, i had the cap to run my rep nonstop in seige mode for about 2 mins max. I could tank only 12 battleships before i started loosing structure. Because of this gank setup i had no hardeners, just the rep. I did win the battle yes, but on tranquility who will fight a dread with 12 battleships? And who would take a dread vs 12 and not have any hardeners? I did the same battle more or less, with a more sustainable tank and 2 hardeners, with this i was barley able to kill the battleships and stood a higher chance of dieing due to reinforcments could come in. oh heres my link http://oldforums.eveonline.com/?a=topic&threadID=241653 |
ArcticWolf |
Posted - 2005.11.12 20:38:00 -
[52] Edited by: ArcticWolf on 12/11/2005 20:38:02 The dreadnaught DPS outside of seige mode is way too low (vs battleships, i realise uour post is about POS), i did the figures in the first post i made stating 132 DPS, not by using the guns stats themselves, but doing extensive testing vs battleships, stationary and moving, to find diffrences, then averaged out the normal hit data. All dreadnaught skills at that date were lv 3... in siege mode that means i would do about 660 dps vs battleships. For fun i went to test server and fit a gank setup, with the mid slots 2 webbers and 2 target painters, used the close range guns with EMP and thermal, then went into seige mode. As a result of my gank setup, i had the cap to run my rep nonstop in seige mode for about 2 mins max. I could tank only 12 battleships before i started loosing structure. Because of this gank setup i had no hardeners, just the rep. I did win the battle yes, but on tranquility who will fight a dread with 12 battleships? And who would take a dread vs 12 and not have any hardeners? I did the same battle more or less, with a more sustainable tank and 2 hardeners, with this i was barley able to kill the battleships and stood a higher chance of dieing due to reinforcments could come in. oh heres my link http://oldforums.eveonline.com/?a=topic&threadID=241653 --- I'm going to relate every post I make to Force Recon Ships being bugged. Force Recon Ships Bugged |
Tobiaz |
Posted - 2005.11.12 22:05:00 -
[53]Originally by: Tovarishch I wouldn't know, but what I do know is that if you mention that in the Stations, Starbases and Outposts forum, you better have a fire extinguisher ready. Who put those rats in the fridge?! |
Tobiaz Spacerats |
Posted - 2005.11.12 22:05:00 -
[54]Originally by: Tovarishch I wouldn't know, but what I do know is that if you mention that in the Stations, Starbases and Outposts forum, you better have a fire extinguisher ready. |
MOS DEF |
Posted - 2005.11.13 10:52:00 -
[55] I think they need a boost myself but the threadstarters comparison is just a bad joke. You compare them to a fully heatsinked armageddon that has nothing to tank at all. |
MOS DEF 0utbreak |
Posted - 2005.11.13 10:52:00 -
[56] I think they need a boost myself but the threadstarters comparison is just a bad joke. You compare them to a fully heatsinked armageddon that has nothing to tank at all. |
F'nog |
Posted - 2005.11.13 11:45:00 -
[57] I think Dreads should have a low DPS but a high alpha strike. So they should be able to inflict a great deal of damage in one shot that renders tanking ineffective, but not do as much damage over time compared to their size as other ship types. So if you had a gank ship setup you could do somewhat close (but probably less than now, which RMR should fix) to the same damage as a gank ship over time, but each shot should so overwhelm you that you either die, warp out, or the support fleet can finish you off. So, in siege mode, the Dread can tank like nobody's business, but do less damage to a moving ship, or do a lot of damage to a moving ship but be unable to tank to its maximum ability. Thus against a POS it's a great weapon, as it can absorb the damage it sustains without too much worry and still take it down more quickly than a reasonably-sized fleet. But against other ships it can really hurt them but need to be defensive so that it doesn't get ganked quickly. This has a nice balance that it has the choice of going against POSes with a good chance of success if the pilot is smart (and unsupported by other dreads) or be able to take out enemy fleets so long as it is well defended. Right now it seems to be able to do neither, which is a real shame. But what do I know, I'm enebriated and tired, and may be completely wrong. Sig modified due to xenophobic comments -Iacon |
F'nog Amarr Celestial Horizon Corp. Valainaloce |
Posted - 2005.11.13 11:45:00 -
[58] I think Dreads should have a low DPS but a high alpha strike. So they should be able to inflict a great deal of damage in one shot that renders tanking ineffective, but not do as much damage over time compared to their size as other ship types. So if you had a gank ship setup you could do somewhat close (but probably less than now, which RMR should fix) to the same damage as a gank ship over time, but each shot should so overwhelm you that you either die, warp out, or the support fleet can finish you off. So, in siege mode, the Dread can tank like nobody's business, but do less damage to a moving ship, or do a lot of damage to a moving ship but be unable to tank to its maximum ability. Thus against a POS it's a great weapon, as it can absorb the damage it sustains without too much worry and still take it down more quickly than a reasonably-sized fleet. But against other ships it can really hurt them but need to be defensive so that it doesn't get ganked quickly. This has a nice balance that it has the choice of going against POSes with a good chance of success if the pilot is smart (and unsupported by other dreads) or be able to take out enemy fleets so long as it is well defended. Right now it seems to be able to do neither, which is a real shame. But what do I know, I'm enebriated and tired, and may be completely wrong. I used to get It. Then It changed. Now I don't even know what It is. |
Ithildin |
Posted - 2005.11.13 12:13:00 -
[59] I assume those numbers on the dreads are without damage mods? A Pulsegeddon does about 405 dps before damage mods, using Megapulse II and Antimatter ammunitions with Large Energy Turret V, Large Pulse Laser V, Rapid Fire V, Surgical Strike V, and Amarr Battleship V. Then again, a dreadnought needs to sustain it's tank for quite a while which means it won't be able to fit a gank fitting (the Revelation, for example, has really bad capacitor) I wish there were more fun skills with Memory as primary. Poor Intaki combat people with low perception... |
Ithildin Gallente The Corporation Cruel Intentions |
Posted - 2005.11.13 12:13:00 -
[60] I assume those numbers on the dreads are without damage mods? A Pulsegeddon does about 405 dps before damage mods, using Megapulse II and Antimatter ammunitions with Large Energy Turret V, Large Pulse Laser V, Rapid Fire V, Surgical Strike V, and Amarr Battleship V. Then again, a dreadnought needs to sustain it's tank for quite a while which means it won't be able to fit a gank fitting (the Revelation, for example, has really bad capacitor) - EVE is sick. |
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