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colla tidet
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Posted - 2003.08.08 17:10:00 -
[1]
Edited by: colla tidet on 08/08/2003 17:14:56
Edited by: colla tidet on 08/08/2003 17:13:59
Edited by: colla tidet on 08/08/2003 17:11:57
Did not sleep well last night, so i skipped my coffee this morning, because of this I made a mistake by posting to a topic that was from june. See what happens when u miss your morning drink of the nectur of the gods.
Here is the link
http://myeve.eve-online/ingameboard.asp?a=topic&threadID=65748&page=1
quote:
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My conclusion (however opinionated and subjective it may be) is that CCP has done a few very, very stupid mistakes in the course of implementing their design.
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Cause & Effect = a basic law.
I have stated on several occasion's that the way to solve most problems in eve would be to flick the switch and turn faction/corp. standings on. On one occasion someone has stated that CCP cannot turn this on because the agent system is borked and that most players have spent a majority of the time shooting Npc's at there leisure (not paying attention to who, what, where). This IS a MAJOR problem that needs to be addressed SOON. If some (not sure how much) of the storyline comes from agents, and the system is finally able to be implemented properly, one of a few (will only discuss the main 2) possibilities will have to happen.
1) There will be utter chaos caused by the lack of concern on what people have done to Npc's/Human pc's (who,what, & where).
2) CCP will have to wipe the slate clean and start anew with the faction/corp. standings that people have now before implementing standings.
The BIGGEST exploit in the game right now (and from the beginning) is that there is no effect related to the cause. The exception being the nerfing of items such as the harvester drops on convoy's. If a system was in place to give an effect to the cause there would not be such a problem. Those who chose to become bandits would have an ever increasing problem of getting back to the "choice" hunting grounds for such actions. Thus not to much of a need to completely (maybe to harsh a word) get rid of harvester drops.
If u agree or not, that is not a issue with me. The issue with me is that all gamer's should understand what has happened and is going to happen.
Something is comming to our doorstep... when we answer, it will not be avon nor will it say please.
"Let us have faith that right makes right, and in that faith let us to the end dare to do our duty as we understand it."
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drunkenmaster
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Posted - 2003.08.08 17:55:00 -
[2]
I don't think people would be ready for a faction-enabling.
People would be dying left right and centre, and screaming injustice that an amarrian police officer killed and podded a minmatar, etc. etc.
I'd enjoy it though. Challenges amuse me.
.
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Foomanshoe
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Posted - 2003.08.08 18:00:00 -
[3]
I dont think CCP will even know how to deal with corp/faction standings yet.
Give em time.
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j0sephine
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Posted - 2003.08.08 18:03:00 -
[4]
"I don't think people would be ready for a faction-enabling.
(..)
I'd enjoy it though. Challenges amuse me."
... Well, i can see how learning that all stations in the Venal region suddenly refuse to grant docking permission due to negative Guristas faction could be quite a challenge for the inhabitants.. :s
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drunkenmaster
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Posted - 2003.08.08 18:32:00 -
[5]
 Quote:
"I don't think people would be ready for a faction-enabling.
(..)
I'd enjoy it though. Challenges amuse me."
... Well, i can see how learning that all stations in the Venal region suddenly refuse to grant docking permission due to negative Guristas faction could be quite a challenge for the inhabitants.. :s
I'd have to kill about 3 caldari. This is what disposable frigates were made for. 
The empire will see much blood on this day, the guristas will be very pleased.
And most importantly (for me), I'd be amused.
.
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colla tidet
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Posted - 2003.08.08 18:39:00 -
[6]
Quote:
Something is comming to our doorstep... when we answer, it will not be avon nor will it say please.
Once again i am amazed at the human capacity for understanding...
gist [ jist ]
noun
1. main point: the essential point or meaning of something
"We don't know what he's ill with. It could be a cold, or the black death. Who knows. All we know is that Pann said he's ill and the 'roid respawn problem won't get fixed until he's better,"
as taken from a post"Get well soon lekjart" http://oldforums.eveonline.com/?a=topic&threadID=20096.
Vacation...Sickness...
"Let us have faith that right makes right, and in that faith let us to the end dare to do our duty as we understand it."
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j0sephine
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Posted - 2003.08.08 18:49:00 -
[7]
Edited by: j0sephine on 08/08/2003 18:49:55
"I'd have to kill about 3 caldari. This is what disposable frigates were made for.
The empire will see much blood on this day, the guristas will be very pleased.
And most importantly (for me), I'd be amused."
lol, some of those frigate thingies can be quite pesky :P
But yes, sounds amusing... especially the idea of certain 'peaceful' companies out of sudden murdering innocent denizens of the Caldari State in desperate attempt to kiss up to the Guristas... just imagine the headlines. :s~
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colla tidet
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Posted - 2003.08.08 18:58:00 -
[8]
Let's not forget point number 2 in the above. If CCP has to wipe it clean, then the people in the pirate class will be able to start over...
"Let us have faith that right makes right, and in that faith let us to the end dare to do our duty as we understand it."
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Plasmatique
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Posted - 2003.08.08 19:00:00 -
[9]
Drunken, that would most certainly fix your security rating, but I somehow doubt it would be that easy to fix your faction and corporation ratings.
I can almost hear the cries in the petitions now....
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Proud Owner of a Navy Issue Raven
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j0sephine
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Posted - 2003.08.08 19:05:00 -
[10]
"but I somehow doubt it would be that easy to fix your faction and corporation ratings."
I think it would affect the faction in the desired way -- killing the NPCs decreases Guristas faction and increases Caldari State faction, killing the Caldari should have the reverse effect.
However it takes quite a number of NPCs to kill for any significant change to Caldari faction, so i don't think it'd be enough to shoot just 3 Caldari vessels to get on Guristas' good side.. o.O
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Plasmatique
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Posted - 2003.08.08 19:09:00 -
[11]
Quote:
Let's not forget point number 2 in the above. If CCP has to wipe it clean, then the people in the pirate class will be able to start over...
There's already a bunch of pirates running around with +9.0's and higher. They gonna start killing NPC's to raise it back up?...oh yea, they cant. Because then they wouldnt be able to dock in any stations in Venal.
Faction rating are a good idea when approached logically and methodically. But when they are implemented, its gonna get F'd up and be a gigantic "CF".
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Proud Owner of a Navy Issue Raven
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Plasmatique
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Posted - 2003.08.08 19:13:00 -
[12]
Quote:
"but I somehow doubt it would be that easy to fix your faction and corporation ratings."
I think it would affect the faction in the desired way -- killing the NPCs decreases Guristas faction and increases Caldari State faction, killing the Caldari should have the reverse effect.
However it takes quite a number of NPCs to kill for any significant change to Caldari faction, so i don't think it'd be enough to shoot just 3 Caldari vessels to get on Guristas' good side.. o.O
AND...he's gonna have to kill just Caldari's for this to work.
It's going to be quite the murderous rampage.
I think I'll just make sure my clone is upgraded, undock in an Ibis and PM drunken to tell him where to find me, get it over with sooner
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Proud Owner of a Navy Issue Raven
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drunkenmaster
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Posted - 2003.08.08 19:16:00 -
[13]
A CF on a massive scale.
As for my faction/corp ratings, I could work for federal customs (and kill people) or I could work for Concord (9.7) (and kill people).
You may think me heartless, as I am not normally a killer. But those who are not killers of something will fall.
..
Okay, now I think about it, it would be really awful, especially for the people that will have to be killed so various alliances can stay at home. But I totally believe player stations will be put in before they do this, to avoid the exact CF we are talking about.
But oh! imagine the fun. I missed the last days of beta and the big fights, so I wanna be around for the 'real' round.
.
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colla tidet
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Posted - 2003.08.08 19:24:00 -
[14]
*cough*
The numbers above speak for themselves...
1 or 2 which do u think will happen...
GIST defined above
"Let us have faith that right makes right, and in that faith let us to the end dare to do our duty as we understand it."
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Jericho
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Posted - 2003.08.08 19:28:00 -
[15]
Can I have your stuff?
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colla tidet
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Posted - 2003.08.08 19:32:00 -
[16]
Hold the thought jericho...
"Let us have faith that right makes right, and in that faith let us to the end dare to do our duty as we understand it."
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drunkenmaster
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Posted - 2003.08.08 19:42:00 -
[17]
I think neither, Colla. I'm sure CCP aren't too enthused about having either. I think instead that they will reset either pirate negative factions, or all negative factions.
People have put too much effort into getting the positive ones, whereas negative ratings can be gotten back in mere hours.
I think they will find a 'safe' crossover, rather than just flicking it on. People will freak out. Badly.
.
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colla tidet
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Posted - 2003.08.08 19:57:00 -
[18]
Edited by: colla tidet on 08/08/2003 19:59:43
Ty for your words drunken...what about all the work that was put in before the "MYSTERIOUS" bug that took them down to 2.00
And does not the idea of taking one (standing) down and not the other reflect a touch of cronyism...
GIST defined above
"Let us have faith that right makes right, and in that faith let us to the end dare to do our duty as we understand it."
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Fusco T
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Posted - 2003.08.08 20:03:00 -
[19]
Having factions go live would be awesome. I think I have most of mine in order and would welcome the extra thought processes.
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DJvGalen
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Posted - 2003.08.08 20:12:00 -
[20]
I'd love the idea of factions being turned on, but before I want them to even THINK about turning them on the Agents have to be fixed.
Right now agents are buggered and luckily your faction is returned to 2 and not lower when succesfully doing missions.
I did about 80 Roden shipyards mission and my standing is 2 with them, should be higher cause it was around 2 after the first 10 or 20 missions. I would've done more missions if the stuff agents ask for is not so rare, I think that's related to the trade region buy order which some people labeled as "exploit".
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CCP please fix your patch so I can play with my corpmates again soon. |
j0sephine
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Posted - 2003.08.08 20:28:00 -
[21]
"I did about 80 Roden shipyards mission and my standing is 2 with them, should be higher cause it was around 2 after the first 10 or 20 missions."
The maximum standing you can get is limited by the level of the agent you work for. If the agent is of level 1, they can only get your standings up to 2.0 Lvl.2 allows standings up to 4.0, lvl.3 up to 6.0 and so on.
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colla tidet
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Posted - 2003.08.08 22:04:00 -
[22]
My guess is point 2.
"Let us have faith that right makes right, and in that faith let us to the end dare to do our duty as we understand it."
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colla tidet
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Posted - 2003.08.09 19:41:00 -
[23]
It seems as though i am a little late on my discussion...
(never saw it)
quote:
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The char-specific prerequirements that are being referred to are that the "minimum friendly standing" must be 2 or higher. The agent-specific prerequirements are "about 30% of all non-Jove, 1st level agents, can be acquired via docking".
"Friendly standing" is the maximum of all 9 applicable standing numbers between the two of you as perceived by the agent, i.e. how the agent, his/her corp, and his/her faction feel about you, your corp, and your faction.
...
The plan is that during this month, the "agent ladder" concept dies and is replaced by a standing based system entirely.
The formula hasn't yet been set in stone, but odds are the rules will be roughly on the line of "you need to have 2*(agent level - 1) in 'friendly standing' to be able to get missions from any given agent".
Some balancing and UI improvements to the standing system will be required in relation to that.
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I see some possible problems with this system.
If I remember correctly, early on in the game, it was far too easy to get very high faction ratings. People who've never done an agent mission will be able to almost instantly get a high level agent.
On the other hand, people who've been using the agent system in anticipation of later gains when it was developed have had their faction ratings clipped for quite some time. Someone who's done over a 150 missions through different levels may find themselves a lot worse off because of the bugs in the system in the past (and present).
So what would effectively happen is that those people who've put the most efforts into agents will come off worst, and those who haven't touched them may be rewarded for nothing, a situation that would undoubtably cause quite a lot of upset.
Currently, the system has been a bit too random in its rewards of progression. Because of problems with the missions given out, it was quite possible to work through over 80 level 2 agent missions without progressing getting a level 3 agent, because you kept getting given level 1 agents. On the other hand, I think that some sort of progression based on the work you put into agents is worth having, if you dont limit it by the number of missions done, there is going to ahve to be a seriously close look at what can be done about everyones faction standings.
A solution to that might be to wipe out everyone's corporation and faction standings currently by resetting them to 0 after the clipping bug for standings is fixed, and allow people the time after that but before the new system is introduced to rebuild their standings fairly. I don't particularly like that suggestion, but it's probably better than an unfair system, and since faction standings aren't really used for anything at the moment, wouldn't affect other things too badly.
Redundancy
Polaris Bug Hunter Lead
as taken from the post"Thoughts on proposed
agent standing system";http://oldforums.eveonline.com/?a=topic&threadID=24122&page=1
...... ...
Something is comming to our doorstep... when we answer, it will not be avon nor will it say please.
"Let us have faith that right makes right, and in that faith let us to the end dare to do our duty as we understand it."
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