I decide to use my Proteus alt to scout and provide max sensor strength bonus to help me from being jammed. I'm wandering around low sec and spot a drake. Setup to bonus and jump in my Brutix and go for him. My mid slots is a micro warp drive, scram and two OVERLOADED eccm modules and I have that new Gallente sensor strength skill at max.

132 sensor strength.

Drake launches five light ECM drones. I get one cycle of antimatter off and I'm jammed... for two back to back 20 second cycles. So with no way to apply any meaningful damage, much less hold tackle; I die to the Drake.

I come back with yet another Brutix two days later, attack a Cyclone. Out come the ECM dines when he starts to bleed armor. I get jammed and he warp away to a pos.

You know, I don't really mind being jammed by a blackbird or other ECM specialized ship, but these ******* ECM drones need to be removed from the damn game already.

I decide to use my Proteus alt to scout and provide max sensor strength bonus to help me from being jammed. I'm wandering around low sec and spot a drake. Setup to bonus and jump in my Brutix and go for him. My mid slots is a micro warp drive, scram and two OVERLOADED eccm modules and I have that new Gallente sensor strength skill at max.

132 sensor strength.

Drake launches five light ECM drones. I get one cycle of antimatter off and I'm jammed... for two back to back 20 second cycles. So with no way to apply any meaningful damage, much less hold tackle; I die to the Drake.

I come back with yet another Brutix two days later, attack a Cyclone. Out come the ECM dines when he starts to bleed armor. I get jammed and he warp away to a pos.

You know, I don't really mind being jammed by a blackbird or other ECM specialized ship, but these ******* ECM drones need to be removed from the damn game already.

Tears, glorious tears.....

I understand the frustration, I've been there.

Its well known ECM drones should more or less be completely removed from the game, the way they are now. Old and repeating subject in the forums. Generally speaking CCP know but they just couldn't care less... However, CCP_Rise may be able to change that in the future, as he always talked about how overall terrible ECM drones are to Eve as a game entirely, in his streams :-)

Try the sensor strength implants, they help. The lowgrade set only costs like 40mil total, and you'll feel a great difference vs ECM drones (won't do you that much good vs Falcons though).

132 sensor strength. . . .Drake launches five light ECM drones. I'm jammed . . . attack a Cyclone. Out come the ECM dines when he starts to bleed armor. I get jammed . . .

Then again the other night I put ECM drones on a dramiel 10 or 12 times and didn't get a single jam.

It's almost like random occurences aren't predictable

If it is such a great mechanic

18% chance, so it's not exactly out of the ordinaryGǪ

Can we see the math on that?

Chance to jam = 1 - (1 - Jam Strength / Sensor Strength)^Jammers

That's the formula I've always thought was correct.

1-(1-1/132)^5 = approximately .037 or 3.7 percent.

It's correct, but your result is for one drone, not for all five. You've missed the ^5 part.

5/132 = 0.03788 / 3.8% for a single drone.
1-0.03788 = 0.9621 / 96.2% for the ship to not be locked by one drone
0.9621Gü¦ = 0.8243 / 82.4% for the ship to not be locked by five of them.
1-0.8243 = 0.1757 / 17.6% for the drones to get a successful jam.

Can we see the math on that?

Chance to jam = 1 - (1 - Jam Strength / Sensor Strength)^Jammers

That's the formula I've always thought was correct.

1-(1-1/132)^5 = approximately .037 or 3.7 percent.

That being said, I can understand the OP's frustration at getting jammed by ecm drones so often.

I like ECM drones. But actually I think that when they jam the other guy, your lock on the target should automatically break as well. That would make them fairer.

Actually, ECM drones are seriously underpowered compared to actual ECM modules. Unlike regular ECM, there is (to the best of my knowledge) not a single module, skill or implant that can boost the power of an ECM drone (even the ECM drone skill only adds range to drones, which is very misleading). Regular ECM, on the other hand... can be boosted in all sorts of ways. It can also be countered in all sorts of ways too, and those counters work on drones just as well as anything else.

So it's not the ECM drones that need to be nerfed (if anything, they need to be buffed) - it's the ECM rules as a whole that needs changing. It's an all-or-nothing system, with a flat 20 second timer slapped on arbitrarily. It's silly and, by EvE standards, far too simple.

What I propose to ECM as a whole: Change the system so that ECM is rolled per weapon system. So if someone has eight turrets and you try to ECM them, your ECM makes eight rolls - one against each turret. If you've got a 25% chance then you will probably jam two of their turrets per cycle. A jammed turret cannot fire for one cycle, but the rest operate normally.

In this way ECM now becomes comparable to other EWAR methods such as SD and TD. It will be far more effective at weakening targets but won't likely result in total shut down. Remember, rolling against eight turrets means you're getting eight rolls - so you're actually eight times as likely to score an ECM "hit" ... but that hit won't mean as much as it used to. ECM now becomes something that works on a gradient instead of coin flip "no effect vs total shutdown" like it is now.

Actually, ECM drones are seriously underpowered compared to actual ECM modules. Unlike regular ECM, there is (to the best of my knowledge) not a single module, skill or implant that can boost the power of an ECM drone (even the ECM drone skill only adds range to drones, which is very misleading). Regular ECM, on the other hand... can be boosted in all sorts of ways. It can also be countered in all sorts of ways too, and those counters work on drones just as well as anything else.

So it's not the ECM drones that need to be nerfed (if anything, they need to be buffed) - it's the ECM rules as a whole that needs changing. It's an all-or-nothing system, with a flat 20 second timer slapped on arbitrarily. It's silly and, by EvE standards, far too simple.

What I propose to ECM as a whole: Change the system so that ECM is rolled per weapon system. So if someone has eight turrets and you try to ECM them, your ECM makes eight rolls - one against each turret. If you've got a 25% chance then you will probably jam two of their turrets per cycle. A jammed turret cannot fire for one cycle, but the rest operate normally.

In this way ECM now becomes comparable to other EWAR methods such as SD and TD. It will be far more effective at weakening targets but won't likely result in total shut down. Remember, rolling against eight turrets means you're getting eight rolls - so you're actually eight times as likely to score an ECM "hit" ... but that hit won't mean as much as it used to. ECM now becomes something that works on a gradient instead of coin flip "no effect vs total shutdown" like it is now.

oh look, another whine about rng being random.

No it's not. It's like an other way of achieving the goal of a tracking disruptor.

In this way ECM now becomes comparable to other EWAR methods such as SD and TD.

I understand the concept of smartbombs to kill the ECM drones, but I do high sec wars as well and you can't really use those there.

It is just a shame that the only real counter is using the very same broken mechanic. I'm curious why CCP insists on keeping the anti-fun mechanic the way it is.

Anyways, only two weeks before Caldari cruiser five on my alt and he will be flying a falcon constantly. I plan on perma jamming everyone, even if they stood no chance at all, just to rub in how messed up the mechanic is.

Its well known ECM drones should more or less be completely removed from the game

I understand the concept of smartbombs to kill the ECM drones, but I do high sec wars as well and you can't really use those there.

It is just a shame that the only real counter is using the very same broken mechanic. I'm curious why CCP insists on keeping the anti-fun mechanic the way it is.

Anyways, only two weeks before Caldari cruiser five on my alt and he will be flying a falcon constantly. I plan on perma jamming everyone, even if they stood no chance at all, just to rub in how messed up the mechanic is.

He makes valid points. Boosting / overloaded dual ECCM vs a couple thousand isk worth of drones. Need to learn when a post is a valid post vs when its just whining and you'll be a gun poster like me.

Actually, ECM drones are seriously underpowered compared to actual ECM modules.

Not really. You can recall your drones and send them out after a failed jam. Also, though the ECM drones have a low strength, each individual drone has a chance to jam. It's that 5 chances that makes them strong.

Wouldn't be nearly so bad if the duration wasn't as long.

CCP broke random() function. Oh no they didn't.

What would really help would be to change the duration from a static 20 sec jam time to a 20sec * change to jam time. So if you had a 3% chance to be jammed, if you were successfully jammed it would last 0.6 seconds. That way if you do spend a billion isk on countering ECM you will feel the effects jammed or not. With enough Sensor strength ECM will just be a target breaker.

This.

Not really. You can recall your drones and send them out after a failed jam. Also, though the ECM drones have a low strength, each individual drone has a chance to jam. It's that 5 chances that makes them strong.

Wouldn't be nearly so bad if the duration wasn't as long.

No you can't. I take it you haven't actually played EVE since... 2011, was it, when they removed that? Try it now and you will get no jams, ever.

One way I've found to beat ECM drones is to orbit your target at about 30km with your MWD on and going at about 5000m/s. Then they don't catch up.
Alternatively bring smartbomb. I used a smartbomb Sleipnir at one time to great effect. It's a shame CCP decided that having two utility highs on things isn't good anymore - smartbomb/neut was a nice combo.
Drone vs drone doesn't work, the ECM drones won't die fast enough as there's 5 of them.
If you're in a frigate you can, theoretically, destroy them all with guns in the 20 second grace period after they engage you.

If you don't have a frigate, a very fast kiting ship, or a utility high... not much you can do. Your ship is obsolete for solo.

Personal attack post has been deleted.

RULE 4. Personal attacks are prohibited.

When will this be fixed?

Magic 8 ball says:

"I'm not a EVE Online developer.".

Fixed your post.

I grow tired of players tossing around that phrase as if they designed the game themselves.

have you ever heard the phrase "if you can't beat em, join em"?

oh look, another whine about rng being random.

When will this be fixed?

ECM. When it misses, nobody remembers. When it works, nobody forgets.

Actually, ECM drones are seriously underpowered compared to actual ECM modules. Unlike regular ECM, there is (to the best of my knowledge) not a single module, skill or implant that can boost the power of an ECM drone (even the ECM drone skill only adds range to drones, which is very misleading). Regular ECM, on the other hand... can be boosted in all sorts of ways. It can also be countered in all sorts of ways too, and those counters work on drones just as well as anything else.

So it's not the ECM drones that need to be nerfed (if anything, they need to be buffed) - it's the ECM rules as a whole that needs changing. It's an all-or-nothing system, with a flat 20 second timer slapped on arbitrarily. It's silly and, by EvE standards, far too simple.

What I propose to ECM as a whole: Change the system so that ECM is rolled per weapon system. So if someone has eight turrets and you try to ECM them, your ECM makes eight rolls - one against each turret. If you've got a 25% chance then you will probably jam two of their turrets per cycle. A jammed turret cannot fire for one cycle, but the rest operate normally.

In this way ECM now becomes comparable to other EWAR methods such as SD and TD. It will be far more effective at weakening targets but won't likely result in total shut down. Remember, rolling against eight turrets means you're getting eight rolls - so you're actually eight times as likely to score an ECM "hit" ... but that hit won't mean as much as it used to. ECM now becomes something that works on a gradient instead of coin flip "no effect vs total shutdown" like it is now.

Can we see the math on that?

Chance to jam = 1 - (1 - Jam Strength / Sensor Strength)^Jammers

That's the formula I've always thought was correct.

1-(1-1/132)^5 = approximately .037 or 3.7 percent.

That being said, I can understand the OP's frustration at getting jammed by ecm drones so often.

Then again the other night I put ECM drones on a dramiel 10 or 12 times and didn't get a single jam.

It's almost like random occurences aren't predictable