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Elaine Shandrate
Luna Decrescentia Celeris
3
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Posted - 2013.06.13 16:39:00 -
[31] - Quote
Aracno't wrote:
SERIOUSLY CCP WHY **** UP WHAT WAS GREAT
It only got better. Compare it to this and tell me things got worse.
They have made alterations, yes. They are still iterating over stuff, sure. But worse? More of the real unknown and real exploration then... but if you ask me i prefer the current system over any older. |
Aracno't
Kenshin. Against ALL Authorities
17
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Posted - 2013.06.14 06:34:00 -
[32] - Quote
l0rd carlos wrote:Aracno't wrote:l0rd carlos wrote:Quote:first strike is our scan strength has dropped making it harder for us to find stuff It looks like i found a person who is even more bad at math than i am before: base * 1.50 now: base * 1.25 * 1.25 So the scan strength increased with the patch. I also have All V skills + virture and i don't regret it. my scan strength before patch was 136.3 after patch it is 131.1 Do you have All V skills? Also the Astrometric skill so you could launch 8 probes before the patch? EDIT: If i rembember correctly they change something with the stagging of the rigs.
yes i did all to level 5 as well as 2 t1 rigs |
Aracno't
Kenshin. Against ALL Authorities
17
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Posted - 2013.06.14 06:36:00 -
[33] - Quote
l0rd carlos wrote:I don't know how exactly the spawn mechanic works, but i guess we can all agree that DT has nothing to do with it.
The last thing i have heard is that sites spawn in the same region again after 4h. Where those numbers come from and if they are correct, i don't know. I would not count on it.
I have the _feeling_ that i find better sites in busy lowsec systems compared to almost dead lowsec systems. But i did not measure it, it's just a feeling.
basicly as soon as a site is done it re spawns some where else in that region well that was before the patch ill have to check if its changed |
Llyona
Sleepless Escorts
23
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Posted - 2013.06.14 06:43:00 -
[34] - Quote
Damn I love all the kbear tears I've been reading!
This new system is great and I for one fully support it. It removed a lot of the mundane bullshit that was completely unnecessary, such as spamming F1 and having to manually move the probes into their initial formation. My scanning time has gone down from 15 minutes to 5, which I think is great. In fact, more of my members are actually scanning down chains now, since it's a lot more intuitive. If that's not rewarding and epic, I don't know what is.
Oh and that isk/hr you were making in kspace was **** anyway. EVE is an illness, for which there is no cure. |
Stetson Eagle
ROC Academy The ROC
43
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Posted - 2013.06.14 07:15:00 -
[35] - Quote
Bad Luck; Don't Care |
dexington
Dexington Corporation
652
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Posted - 2013.06.14 07:55:00 -
[36] - Quote
Llyona wrote:Damn I love all the kbear tears I've been reading!
I love the clueless posts from wbears. I'm a relatively respectable citizen. Multiple felon perhaps, but certainly not dangerous. |
Llyona
Sleepless Escorts
23
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Posted - 2013.06.14 08:51:00 -
[37] - Quote
dexington wrote:Llyona wrote:Damn I love all the kbear tears I've been reading! I love the clueless posts from wbears.
That makes two of us. Bears are always a great source of fuel, regardless the space they live in.
EVE is an illness, for which there is no cure. |
Brainless Bimbo
Pator Tech School Minmatar Republic
63
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Posted - 2013.06.14 10:27:00 -
[38] - Quote
I love all the thank god no more spamming F1 to launch probes....
...considering they could be launched by mouse click as well, all we have replaced is 8 keyboard strokes with what 30 or so mouse clicks and associated twitch type movements....
The super probe makes it possible to get a hit @ 100% in 3 scans (skilled players did it in between 3 and 5 before), so it takes no player skill at all, great for those who have no spacial awareness and limited computational capacity.
The game-play in exploration went from Chess to Chequers, same board, but the depth of thought required, well nuff said.. I got probes from the Rookie-á tutorial, they are indestructible, unforgettable and will never need to be replaced, but maybe i will eventually upgrade them to Sisters that are also unforgettable, indestructible and will never need to be replaced. CCP-¦s New Motto: Shiny over Substance |
l0rd carlos
Friends Of Harassment
478
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Posted - 2013.06.14 10:51:00 -
[39] - Quote
Brainless Bimbo wrote:I love all the thank god no more spamming F1 to launch probes....
...considering they could be launched by mouse click as well, . That is true, spam 8 mouse clicks. Not any better.
Brainless Bimbo wrote: all we have replaced is 8 keyboard strokes with what 30 or so mouse clicks and associated twitch type movements....
No, the 8 clicks have been replaced by 1 click. All the shift and Alt dragging hassle comes after the launching and that also has been minimized and replaced by easy left mouse clicks.
Brainless Bimbo wrote: The game-play in exploration went from Chess to Chequers, same board, but the depth of thought required, well nuff said..
What depth was there before that has been removed? German blog about smallscale lowsec pvp: http://friendsofharassment.wordpress.com |
Substantia Nigra
Polaris Rising Gentlemen's Agreement
1131
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Posted - 2013.06.15 04:33:00 -
[40] - Quote
I do not like new-scanning. It's significantly slower to find a sig because it prevents me from using efficient 8-probe methodologies. I guess I am almost a 'vet' by now. Hopefully not too bitter and managing to help more than I hinder. Our pirate epic arc completion packages really are very good: https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=12973&find=unread |
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Vladimir Norkoff
Income Redistribution Service
187
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Posted - 2013.06.15 07:28:00 -
[41] - Quote
l0rd carlos wrote:What depth was there before that has been removed? Well pre-Odyssey you had to have the wherewithal to actually get your probeboat and go out and check to see if there was anything to be found. Nowdays the game grabs your face and rubs your nose in the site screaming "HERE!!! SCAN HERE!!!". So there is that. Otherwise, the new system does require a bit more thought and effort than the old click-n-wait.
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Ireland VonVicious
Vicious Trading Company
158
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Posted - 2013.06.15 08:29:00 -
[42] - Quote
OP should have been a ninja back when they changed the scanning system the first time and made it much harder.
Never before or since did they **** a niche group of players like they did on that one. (( Unless you count those who now get less sp per hour due to the removal of learning skills ))
Scanning use to be far easier. You could scan every mission runner down in a system in a couple secs and pick who to go after based on what ship they were flying.
They made it way to hard to scan wrecking the isk per hour made off it.
Now they finally tried to fix it and went too far back to the easy side of things.
I'm sure every last one of them would change places with you.
I consider it better now then it was before the recent updates even though they went a little too far.
BEST UPDATE EVER! |
l0rd carlos
Friends Of Harassment
478
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Posted - 2013.06.15 09:51:00 -
[43] - Quote
Vladimir Norkoff wrote:l0rd carlos wrote:What depth was there before that has been removed? Well pre-Odyssey you had to have the wherewithal to actually get your probeboat and go out and check to see if there was anything to be found. That is not a deep mechanic nor does it require skill. German blog about smallscale lowsec pvp: http://friendsofharassment.wordpress.com |
Robert Caldera
Caldera Trading and Investment
591
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Posted - 2013.06.15 12:35:00 -
[44] - Quote
l0rd carlos wrote: That is not a deep mechanic nor does it require skill.
at least it was deeper than it is now. |
Yang Baili
New Eden's Logistic Incorporated
0
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Posted - 2013.06.15 18:39:00 -
[45] - Quote
Went through about 40 low sec systems yesterday and found 8 Data/Relic sites. 7 of them are already visited by other explorers who cargo scan, pick valuable stuffs, and then leave the site. The only unvisited Data site yield like 20 mil isk. Well, that's 4 hours of low sec scan for 20 mil isk - 5 mil/hour.
I hope I simply had a bad luck. Otherwise I really have to switch my career. I really like exploration but 5 mil/hour is simply pathetic. |
l0rd carlos
Friends Of Harassment
479
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Posted - 2013.06.15 18:49:00 -
[46] - Quote
Yang Baili wrote: I hope I simply had a bad luck. Otherwise I really have to switch my career. I really like exploration but 5 mil/hour is simply pathetic.
I logged on, wanted to make screenshot about scanning and found a tengu in a 5/10 DED complex. Killed it, lotted 280mil BPC. Finished the DED compelx and looted again ~300mil.
So i got allmost 600mil in ~15 Minutes.
Sometimes you are lucky, sometimes you are not. German blog about smallscale lowsec pvp: http://friendsofharassment.wordpress.com |
Yang Baili
New Eden's Logistic Incorporated
0
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Posted - 2013.06.15 19:05:00 -
[47] - Quote
l0rd carlos wrote:Yang Baili wrote: I hope I simply had a bad luck. Otherwise I really have to switch my career. I really like exploration but 5 mil/hour is simply pathetic.
I logged on, wanted to make screenshot about scanning and found a tengu in a 5/10 DED complex. Killed it, lotted 280mil BPC. Finished the DED compelx and looted again ~300mil. So i got allmost 600mil in ~15 Minutes. Sometimes you are lucky, sometimes you are not.
Nice. I cleared 6/10 Crimson Hand Supply Depot couple days ago and got 500 mil worth drops. Some complexes are definitely worth if you are lucky to find them. Data/Relic sites, however, aren't worth trying anymore. |
Mia Lang
Department of Planetary Services SOLAR FEDERATION ALLIANCE
6
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Posted - 2013.06.16 01:02:00 -
[48] - Quote
Vladimir Norkoff wrote:Aracno't wrote:first strike is our scan strength has dropped making it harder for us to find stuff second strike now that its so easy to scan everyone is out there scanning Wait, wut? So it's harder, but it's so easy everyone is doing it? .... ok Aracno't wrote:...due to all the site being found as soon as they spawn, before the patch you might scan down 3 or 4 systems before you found something now you lucky to find anything after spending a day going from system to system. Then you are doing it wrong. Aracno't wrote:i spent moths training up my scanning skills to level 5 so i could use all 8 probes and use them well, now all i have to do i spend a week training to get the same result, scan ships are now next to use less because you can now get the great scan strength from a bs fit with the moduals which means that. which means all us player who have spend months traing for the right ships and skills have been told bad luck don't care errr.... With level V skills you'll still find stuff faster than a 3 week noob, and you'll have cargo scanned and cleared half the site before they even arrive. 'Course that's given you are doing it right which... well.... see above. And scan strength ships also get bonuses to Analyzers, so you can cruise thru the tier 1 data/relic sites one-shoting firewalls and never taking damage. Again, do it right. I agree it's been dumbed down so that any monkey can go "exploring". Though that's not even the right word for it. It's hardly exploration when you have a big glowing red ball on your map saying "goodies here! probe now!". There's alot of other stuff to complain about (like the lack of decent strategy in the mini-game, or the pointless loot spew), but not really what the OP is hitting at.
I'll give you my useless exploration tengu if you write some more stories VladGÖÑ |
Traska Gannel
ROC Academy The ROC
11
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Posted - 2013.06.16 01:19:00 -
[49] - Quote
The biggest objection I have to the new scanning system is the placement of scanable objects into the scanning window when you jump into the system.
I like the changes to probe formations, skills, probe deployment, single click adjustment of the probe formations ... but it seems to me that the initial signatures should be found by scanning with probes and not displayed on the system scanner when you jump in - though the new system is much faster - it just feels like the skill required to do it well has dropped significantly. |
Mnemosyne Gloob
Acerbus Vindictum Stealth Wear Inc.
108
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Posted - 2013.06.16 01:30:00 -
[50] - Quote
Traska Gannel wrote:The biggest objection I have to the new scanning system is the placement of scanable objects into the scanning window when you jump into the system.
I like the changes to probe formations, skills, probe deployment, single click adjustment of the probe formations ... but it seems to me that the initial signatures should be found by scanning with probes and not displayed on the system scanner when you jump in - though the new system is much faster - it just feels like the skill required to do it well has dropped significantly.
I agree. People without a probe launcher should not see signatures. I don't know why it was made that way. |
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Vladimir Norkoff
Income Redistribution Service
188
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Posted - 2013.06.16 02:02:00 -
[51] - Quote
Mnemosyne Gloob wrote:I agree. People without a probe launcher should not see signatures. I don't know why it was made that way. errr.... So that people who have never done "exploration" before will be inspired to give it a shot? It seems pretty friggin' obvious. I'm not a particularly big fan of it either, but I understand why CCP did it.
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Inserith Peon
Peon's Ironic Scanning Service
2
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Posted - 2013.06.16 15:32:00 -
[52] - Quote
Just came back to the game after a long break. Haven't tried the new mechanics out yet, still asset organising, but the first thing that jumps out at you is the overlay that announces un-scanned sites. I have no problem with regular anomalies being shown that way now, but profession sites shown that way is nonsense. Part of the fun was finding something no-one else had found, that's been completely taken away.
I like many of the other changes, ship spinning is back for example :), but not convinced by the sites overlay. Hopefully, once the stampede dies down a bit, we might see some rebalancing. |
Blue Absinthe
Wardec U
6
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Posted - 2013.06.16 17:24:00 -
[53] - Quote
The changes are good. Most the of the making it easier was just fixing UI issues not the actual scanning (it's not like the shape to put the probes in was any great secret). Also the red blobs are great, it's a way to tell people who didn't know about exploration that there's stuff out there.
The worst thing about exploration still remains and has been compounded by more people now doing exploration - if you are not an experienced player with a ton of SP then you will almost certainly be overtaken and have the site that you've been patiently clearly ninja'd by someone in a FOTM ship blitzing the site. They need to change the system in two ways:
1) The loot and escalation should be based on overall participation in the site (ie no last second ninjas). 2) The number of sites needs to scale with the number of people on the server. It's almost not worth bothering with exploration when there's 40k+ people online and there's no reason why exploration shouldn't be scalable with the number of players. |
DeMichael Crimson
Republic University Minmatar Republic
8356
|
Posted - 2013.06.16 21:24:00 -
[54] - Quote
Heh, what a bunch of jokes posting here saying exploration is great now due to CCP's easy mode changes.
DMC |
Ark Katar
Blackland Incorporated
0
|
Posted - 2013.06.16 22:34:00 -
[55] - Quote
Ehhh, it happens.
I spent 1.2m sp on Planetary management back in the day.
Then that went to suck and stayed there forever.
Probably the same with scanning. :( |
Daniel Plain
Science and Trade Institute Caldari State
1206
|
Posted - 2013.06.16 23:17:00 -
[56] - Quote
l0rd carlos wrote:Vladimir Norkoff wrote:l0rd carlos wrote:What depth was there before that has been removed? Well pre-Odyssey you had to have the wherewithal to actually get your probeboat and go out and check to see if there was anything to be found. That is not a deep mechanic nor does it require skill. i disagree. if you are to include knowledge about the game into the definition of 'skill', the old system did in fact require more skill. as for depth: a system where you have more meaningful choices is by definition the deeper one. chess is deeper then checkers because the amount of valid moves and winning strategies is significantly higher. the new system killed the probeboat 'move' without any compensation to speak of and is therefore objectively more shallow.
"I don't troll, I just give overly blunt responses that annoy people who are wrong but don't want to admit it. It's not my fault that people have sensitive feelings" -MXZF |
Xylorn Hasher
Sumiyoshi-Kai
111
|
Posted - 2013.06.17 08:28:00 -
[57] - Quote
l0rd carlos wrote:I don't know how exactly the spawn mechanic works, but i guess we can all agree that DT has nothing to do with it.
The last thing i have heard is that sites spawn in the same region again after 4h. Where those numbers come from and if they are correct, i don't know. I would not count on it.
I have the _feeling_ that i find better sites in busy lowsec systems compared to almost dead lowsec systems. But i did not measure it, it's just a feeling.
As a long time Pirate - Explorer who made over 40 Bil ISK in lowsec exploration in last 2 years I have to say I don't like new Exploration system.
CCP changed all things in the subject:
- spawning system, - type of sites that spawn, - spawn rates.
Now how new system works?
- New sites spawn in realtime, not after 2 hours like before.
There is total max ammount of sites that can spawn in constellation. How big is this number? I dont know, but once site is done by player, new one spawn immediately in random system in same constelation, so you can probe the whole system and have a few new sites a few minutes later cuz someone did a few sites elseware.
- type of sites.
Here is a big nerf CCP did on purpose:
Before Odyssey lowsec was a gold mine when it comes to ISK making from Exploration. System was fair. If you had balls to risk your pimped ship you were able to make 1-2 Bills every week with relatively small effort by running 4/10 and 5/10 DED plexes and Radar sites when there was nothing better. Average radar were worth 20 - 30 mil ISK each after all. DED plexes were common thing I did 2-3 every week just in my area.
Exploration after Odyssey.
Now there is plenty of Data and Relic sites in each lowsec system. When I say plenty I mean 3 to 5 sites of that type in every system you will pass through. Might sounds good but it isn't. Really. Data sites are crappy. Running them takes alot more time and rewards are joke. Maybe 3 to 5m ISK each. Relic sites seems to be better. They have far better rewards, but are a bit harder to scan too. 10 - 30m ISK on average.
DED plexes becomes very rare now in general with some exeptions.
3/10 - they quite common, but only in Drone version. Thing is Drone version of this plex has NO REWARDS AT ALL. At least i never found anything faction on them.
4/10 seems to spawn very rarely in lowsec but quite offten in hisec. Best plex ever. If you found one - its like 300m ISK will land in your wallet in next 10 minutes - at least, more often is 500-600m as the drop rate was very good! After Odyssey this plex is like Yeti on Sahara. If you found one you dang lucky guy.
5/10 - I always called them BIg Lottery plex. Its has 3 or more pockets, Heavy DPS and webs. Its time consuming to run and can be hard but rewards can be also huge. Most I have found were faction loot worth ~1.6 Bill ISK on a single site. Drop ratios are terribad on it. You can run 6 plexes in a row and find nothing or it can make you a billionare in 30 minutes.
- spawn rates
All changed in this compared to pre Odyssey.
- Data, Relics are very common. There is at least a few of them in every lowsec system. rewards are poor, not worth the time IMO. I use them only to hunt ppl who come to run them.
- DED plexes became very rare. Before Odyssey I was doing at least 3 of 4/10 or 5/10 plexes per week. After Odyssey Im able to find 1 plex in 2 weeks...
Summary.
New Exploration system is designed for new players. However low skills entry point translates directly to low rewards that can be gained from it. While it can be OK for Hisec exploration - low risk, low ISK, it's definitly not right for lowec exploration where risk is always high. For now Odyssey is a big nerf for lowsec inhabitants IMO. While there is alot more opportunities to find a fight, ISK making is dead.
Clarification: All above is written from my point of view. Like I said on start exploration in lowsec made me a multi billionare in relatively short time. While you can think 20m ISK is a good profit for you for 20 minutes of work, for me its 100m+ or I wont touch it even with a stick.
All my posts are made shortly after Marihuana-áconsumption. |
Mnemosyne Gloob
Acerbus Vindictum Stealth Wear Inc.
113
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Posted - 2013.06.17 11:06:00 -
[58] - Quote
Xylorn Hasher wrote:CCP changed all things in the subject:
- spawning system, - type of sites that spawn, - spawn rates.
That's assumption. Just because everyone and their dog went out in frigates doing the new relic/data sites does not mean that anything has changed with the spawning of sites. Relic/Data sites are just cycling much faster and as such appear more often. |
Signal11th
The Retirement Club
1044
|
Posted - 2013.06.17 11:27:00 -
[59] - Quote
I must admit when I looked at the new scanning interface it just seemed to me to be more of a hassle to scan now. I used to be able to scan down using 4 or 8 probes quite quickly now its all over the place and seems to take me ages just to line the bloody things up correctly.
I heard sometime ago that you could preset formations in it but that doesn;t seem to be the case or did I imagine this whilst drunk one night? God Said "Come Forth and receive eternal life!" I came fifth and won a toaster. |
Ylariana
School of Applied Knowledge Caldari State
37
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Posted - 2013.06.17 12:58:00 -
[60] - Quote
Vladimir Norkoff wrote:Mnemosyne Gloob wrote:I agree. People without a probe launcher should not see signatures. I don't know why it was made that way. errr.... So that people who have never done "exploration" before will be inspired to give it a shot? It seems pretty friggin' obvious. I'm not a particularly big fan of it either, but I understand why CCP did it.
Having Anoms visible would make sense, those were locatable without specialist modules anyway. Having Sigs that were only visible following a Probe Sweep show up automatically without launching even 1 probe makes no sense at all.
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