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NickWest
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Posted - 2005.11.15 00:30:00 -
[61]
Good, instas were imbalancing. Perhaps now I can make some $ running escort for people.
This will force many people to change how they play but I think overall it will be for the better as it will make several professions more viable (priates, escorts)
As for skills, don't make a skill that allows you to warp closer. What's the point with a skill that EVERYONE will train?
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Baldour Ngarr
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Posted - 2005.11.15 00:38:00 -
[62]
For crying out loud.
99.95% of jumps, or more, do NOT involve anybody at the gate trying to gank you. Why in the name of Jove are you making all of those jumps take so much longer?
Deducting hours' worth of playing time by slowing down travel is NOT making the game more playable.
Celt Corp - members of ISS |
Franky B
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Posted - 2005.11.15 00:40:00 -
[63]
 Originally by: Baldour Ngarr
For crying out loud.
99.95% of jumps, or more, do NOT involve anybody at the gate trying to gank you. Why in the name of Jove are you making all of those jumps take so much longer?
Deducting hours' worth of playing time by slowing down travel is NOT making the game more playable.
yea, but for quite a few players out there in alliances or in combat situations (of where there are quite a few). most of their time does involve 0.0 gate running
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Baldour Ngarr
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Posted - 2005.11.15 00:43:00 -
[64]
Originally by: Franky B
Originally by: Baldour Ngarr
For crying out loud.
99.95% of jumps, or more, do NOT involve anybody at the gate trying to gank you. Why in the name of Jove are you making all of those jumps take so much longer?
Deducting hours' worth of playing time by slowing down travel is NOT making the game more playable.
yea, but for quite a few players out there in alliances or in combat situations (of where there are quite a few). most of their time does involve 0.0 gate running
And you think that wrecking the game for 12,000 empire dwellers is justified to keep 200 0.0 players on their toes? Get a grip.
Warp to 0km should be accurate 100% of the time, unless there's some reason for it not to be (ie. enemy at the gates.)
Celt Corp - members of ISS |
Sarleena
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Posted - 2005.11.15 00:45:00 -
[65]
Is the autopilot now set to use the warp to 0km instead of the warp to 15km point? Or do you have to warp to 0km manually, with the autopilot still using the 15km warp point?
Life should NOT be a journey to the grave with the intention of arriving safely in an attractive and well preserved body, but rather to skid in sideways, champagne in one hand, strawberries in the oth |
BookMarkKing
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Posted - 2005.11.15 00:54:00 -
[66]
:0
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Corvus Dove
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Posted - 2005.11.15 00:54:00 -
[67]
Originally by: Baldour Ngarr
Originally by: Franky B
Originally by: Baldour Ngarr
For crying out loud.
99.95% of jumps, or more, do NOT involve anybody at the gate trying to gank you. Why in the name of Jove are you making all of those jumps take so much longer?
Deducting hours' worth of playing time by slowing down travel is NOT making the game more playable.
yea, but for quite a few players out there in alliances or in combat situations (of where there are quite a few). most of their time does involve 0.0 gate running
And you think that wrecking the game for 12,000 empire dwellers is justified to keep 200 0.0 players on their toes? Get a grip.
Warp to 0km should be accurate 100% of the time, unless there's some reason for it not to be (ie. enemy at the gates.)
You're forgetting that 100% of your high-end mins for building your precious barges require running gates in 0.0 and low-sec. So you'll have time to make a sandwich while you do safe-space jumps, who cares (I don't insta safe space anyway, I watch Adult Swim). This will give pirates more targets, which means more ISK spent, while still tons of ships will make it through just fine, which means more high-end mins on the market, which will deflate the market and make your ships CHEAPER TO BUILD, and therefore cheaper to buy. Especially when your low-sec and no-sec brothers start losing them.
Stop thinking about how this will affect you personally and start thinking about what it will do for EVE.
The more CCP uses modules to resolve balance issues instead of systemwide rules, the more control CCP will have over how EVE works. CCP, please keep this in mind before swinging the nerfbat. |
aeti
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Posted - 2005.11.15 00:58:00 -
[68]
in fact, after some thinking this will change nothing
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Aitrus
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Posted - 2005.11.15 00:59:00 -
[69]
Originally by: Baldour Ngarr
And you think that wrecking the game for 12,000 empire dwellers is justified to keep 200 0.0 players on their toes? Get a grip.
Warp to 0km should be accurate 100% of the time, unless there's some reason for it not to be (ie. enemy at the gates.)
First off, there are a heck of alot more than 200 people in 0.0
Secondly, if the server database gets unclogged of the thousands of BM's people have it'll be worth the minor inconvience of not landing on top of the gate 100% of the time.
Travel w/o bookmarks will be faster with this change than it is now w/o bookmarks. Besides, insta'ing everywhere is a friggin pain in the butt. Having auto-pilot work almost as well will be a nice change.
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Aitrus
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Posted - 2005.11.15 01:00:00 -
[70]
Originally by: BookMarkKing
:0
Too late to ask for a refund?
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sonofollo
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Posted - 2005.11.15 01:01:00 -
[71]
thats what elite mining barges (t2 barges will be for - higher speed - hgiher armour plating and shielding - higher cargo capacity.)
I can see a move back towards 0.0 apoc and megathon mining platforms - mining barges should be able to be stored inside industrials and deployed in space ? - the jump clone could allow a corp mate to haul out an industrial then u pod jump to his mobile clone platform on his industrial jump in youre mining barge and undock (ok silly idea but could be done with dreads etc) and the warp in to 0m so far ive noticed usually puts u within 3-5km of the gate so with escorts not much of a jump in terms of getting to the gate anyway. And if its nerfed that u have a longer range set youre instas to say 4-7km and that way when u jump ot the gate u have a better chance of being closer
Im assuming this warp to 0m CCP will have an even point somehwere between 0 and 15km namley 7.5km (with a jump range to gate of 2.5km) im sure setting instas between the 5-9km range will result in ebing able to land much closer to the gate more often
Common insta makers and others adapt instead of a 15km bookmark othe side of the gate reduce it to the 5-9km mark.
Hence u overcome the new alterations
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Rocius
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Posted - 2005.11.15 01:02:00 -
[72]
Is it just me or no? I have not gone to Sisi, but I read that the max warp in is now 70km. Is that true? I keep hearing about the 0km warp in points, but what about the long range ones? Yeah yeah, I know, this has nothing to do with traveling, but its still a BM thing too. Alot of long range people are gonna get screwed if there is no long range warp in points.
Dont take your gaming too serious ! |
sonofollo
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Posted - 2005.11.15 01:03:00 -
[73]
insta bookmarks will remain even with the 0km option in place simply make youre instas in the 5km - 9km range warp in at 0m on the insta and u should be able to get close to the gate as i would say the average warp in point on 0km on a random basis will be somewhere in the order of 5-10km out (any closer and u can probably make it to the gate) any further out and it favours pirates to much and open to CCP nerf.
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sonofollo
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Posted - 2005.11.15 01:04:00 -
[74]
no 100km remains on SISI the new ones are 0m and 10km
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Corvus Dove
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Posted - 2005.11.15 01:05:00 -
[75]
Originally by: sonofollo
thats what elite mining barges (t2 barges will be for - higher speed - hgiher armour plating and shielding - higher cargo capacity.)
I can see a move back towards 0.0 apoc and megathon mining platforms - mining barges should be able to be stored inside industrials and deployed in space ? - the jump clone could allow a corp mate to haul out an industrial then u pod jump to his mobile clone platform on his industrial jump in youre mining barge and undock (ok silly idea but could be done with dreads etc) and the warp in to 0m so far ive noticed usually puts u within 3-5km of the gate so with escorts not much of a jump in terms of getting to the gate anyway. And if its nerfed that u have a longer range set youre instas to say 4-7km and that way when u jump ot the gate u have a better chance of being closer
Im assuming this warp to 0m CCP will have an even point somehwere between 0 and 15km namley 7.5km (with a jump range to gate of 2.5km) im sure setting instas between the 5-9km range will result in ebing able to land much closer to the gate more often
Common insta makers and others adapt instead of a 15km bookmark othe side of the gate reduce it to the 5-9km mark.
Hence u overcome the new alterations
Unless they do it in a +/- fashion. It might be so that when you say warp to 0km (better to say "Warp Buffer Setting 0km"), you come out 5-9km on the OTHER SIDE of the insta....in which case you'd now be up to 18km from the gate.
The "uber" setting would be 10km from target and then hope and pray.
The more CCP uses modules to resolve balance issues instead of systemwide rules, the more control CCP will have over how EVE works. CCP, please keep this in mind before swinging the nerfbat. |
Baldour Ngarr
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Posted - 2005.11.15 01:08:00 -
[76]
Originally by: Corvus Dove
Stop thinking about how this will affect you personally and start thinking about what it will do for EVE.
I'm telling you what it will do for EVE. The vast majority of players are in high-sec empire, and will be majorly ticked off. Adding in pointless travel time is NOT making the game more fun, in any way, shape or form.
And secondly, giving pirates more targets is irrelevant to my argument. I'm talking about what should happen if pirates aren't there. Pirates that aren't there don't care how many targets they get. 
Celt Corp - members of ISS |
Franky B
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Posted - 2005.11.15 01:11:00 -
[77]
Edited by: Franky B on 15/11/2005 01:11:40
Originally by: Baldour Ngarr
And you think that wrecking the game for 12,000 empire dwellers is justified to keep 200 0.0 players on their toes? Get a grip.
Warp to 0km should be accurate 100% of the time, unless there's some reason for it not to be (ie. enemy at the gates.)
considering that the 5 vs PA fleet battle numbered 300 odd people alone on 1 engagement and G vs SA fielded 150+ players on 1 day (leaving out a whole buttload of alliances here btw) there would be at least 800 odd very active solo accounts. dont forget that quite a few empire accounts are mining alts, scout alts, MACRO MINERS. and those proper active empire members also included mercenary coalition, empire wars...
yea
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BookMarkKing
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Posted - 2005.11.15 01:12:00 -
[78]
Originally by: Aitrus
Originally by: BookMarkKing
:0
Too late to ask for a refund?
Well you can ask  . Anyway ive spent all me isk on stabs FTW!
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sonofollo
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Posted - 2005.11.15 01:12:00 -
[79]
i think my post was misinterpreted
when setting an insta say gate to gate right u come in and then from the point of the first gate go 15km the other side of the gate (the random warp in point will be coming into the BM) so 18km the other side wont happen unless youre coming from the other side.
Warp in from point A - 15km from gate - Point B is gate - point C is hte other far side of the gate
U fly towards point c and at 15km drop a can set a bookmark lined up with point a showing the other side of point b
all u need to do now is fly 5-9km towards point c drop a can set an insta
Now from point a warp towards point C BM (which is 5-9km the other side of point b being the gate)
random warp in point might put u a couple of km the other side of the gate but not 18km most likley u will if the insta is good bounce into the gate and be on top of it or be 4-6 km this side of point b on the point a side of the gate.
Those that know how instas really work will figure this out
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sonofollo
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Posted - 2005.11.15 01:16:00 -
[80]
this seems to be a favourable balance to be honest. U will sitll be able to warp in closer to the gate most of the time.
Fit some stealth moduels when in travel mode will reduce radius - i can see more ABs and MWDs being fitted to combat setups.
But CCP is just testing this idea and the reduction in lag has to be a more favourable side effect but ..... setting an insta 5-9km from the gate will probably negate the warp in (u can still warp 0m from insta bookmarks on SISI) so if that is left as is the average warp in opint would stand to be at 7.5km from gate. So if youre insta is set the other side of the gate around that range combined with the 2.5km circle to jump around the gate the above 5-9km insta warp in (warp in at 0m though) will still land u closer to the gate
Instas will need to be totally remapped though once RMR is in but i think bookmark sets can still be usuable but a little bit more random but will be of some use for long range travel.
As for the resulting lag should be less but instas arent being totally nerfed - my posts are showing how u can adapt straight away to these changes and not be totally exposed to priates
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Franky B
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Posted - 2005.11.15 01:17:00 -
[81]
I see it as a good thing because its only a minor inconveience to travel time (if it lands you at 5 odd km from the gate (hell, you can even autopilot now!)) while on the other side (combat wise) its a massive change and will really shake things up a bit for the better :P
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Corvus Dove
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Posted - 2005.11.15 01:19:00 -
[82]
Originally by: Baldour Ngarr
Originally by: Corvus Dove
Stop thinking about how this will affect you personally and start thinking about what it will do for EVE.
I'm telling you what it will do for EVE. The vast majority of players are in high-sec empire, and will be majorly ticked off. Adding in pointless travel time is NOT making the game more fun, in any way, shape or form.
And secondly, giving pirates more targets is irrelevant to my argument. I'm talking about what should happen if pirates aren't there. Pirates that aren't there don't care how many targets they get.
You have to understand that the big issue with a game this size isn't how to GET players interested. It's how to keep them that way.
It doesn't matter who you are, carebear or pirate, merc or merchant, you're going to get tired of just mining and insta-ing random **** around space. It may take a while, but it happens. In the meantime, that boredom is indirectly affecting the fun of everyone else.
So you have to take from the carebears and give to the PvPers sometimes, and vice versa. Way too much was given to the carebears for a long time, and the result is a broken, inflated market. Additionally, a lot of old pirate players have vacationed or left EVE due to a lack of anything to do. Finally, there's a point where you nerf so much you actually step away from the vision that became the game, and I think CCP is hitting that point.
So now they're trying to put it back. Many people here now travel without instas. Many people here now traveled before anyone figured out how to insta. The safety provided by an insta is also a contributing factor to problems with the market.
Noone's going to up and quit EVE, except maybe a handful of silly upstarts who will probably grow up a bit later and come back to the game (trust me dude, it happens to all of us, once you're here you never leave forever). Not only that, but this is the prime time to nerf instas: an influx of players from SWG being b0rked all to hell. People who never used instas won't whine about a lack of instas. Additionally, the proximity to a gate for a 0km jump (0-9km)is still shorter than coming in at 15km, and since jump can be triggered at about 5km, that adds maybe 5 minutes to a 25-jump trip. That's if you drop out at 9km EVERY TIME, which you won't. There's a roughly 50% chance you'll insta on freekin autopilot.
This is the best concept to happen to EVE, and if you stow it for a minute and adapt to it, you'll see exactly what I mean. If your real gripe is that now you might get popped when trying to travel in unsafe space, I'll make sure I'm the one that does it, because that's silly. If you're worried about travel times, you won't feel it.
The more CCP uses modules to resolve balance issues instead of systemwide rules, the more control CCP will have over how EVE works. CCP, please keep this in mind before swinging the nerfbat. |
aeti
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Posted - 2005.11.15 01:20:00 -
[83]
you realise you can set your default warp distance from 0-100km now?
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Clutch Cargo
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Posted - 2005.11.15 01:22:00 -
[84]
Edited by: Clutch Cargo on 15/11/2005 01:26:16
Truth is CCP doesn't really care about anything any of us have to say. They seem to have a plan (whether we like it or not) and they are going to implement that plan no matter what. There has only been one time I have seen them respond in any constructive manner to player complaints and that was when they put arming times on missiles/torps. In retrospect I think I would rather have that than this business of doing 5 dmg to frigs...but that's another thread.
Travel in this game sucks, instas or not. As stated in another post here 99% of travel is safe, whether in empire or 0.0. Only a precious few systems are camped and the nerf will only really effect grief in those systems. What it will do is make travelling the other 99% of systems slower.
Why not make the "warp to 0" actually get you to 0?
I hate new skills (another thread) but what I would like to see is a skill/mod that allows you jump (without gates) to systems within a certain radius of where you are. That would solve the idiotic travel times and distances and remove the need for instas.
EDIT: The law of unintended consequences
I can't really respond fully to the post by Corvus Dove but I can say for sure that if I am trying to get 5k zydrine through a camped system and I have a % chance that I am going to land 15k from the gate, I'm not going. This nerf is not "giving anything back" to PVP'er, it simply adds grief to a small % of systems.
The unintended consequence of this is that carebears simply will not go into 0.0. It's not just the cargo they risk, it's the head full of implants etc. They worked too hard to get all that to risk losing it on some randomness in travel. This will further thwart CCP's desire to move people out of empire.
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sonofollo
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Posted - 2005.11.15 01:23:00 -
[85]
well it might result in players making less travel or using alts to shift goods.
NPC players might be forced to join a player corp even if for simple escort protection
Player couriers are ones taht will get a boost out of this if players have slightly more travel time and want to move assets they can create the player mission set approriptate colleteral to cover the cost of the items and get someone else to move it (i normally pay 20,000 ISK per jump or 30,000 ISK in low sec) most of the professional moving corps that take these player created courier missions use scouts or work as a team anyway.
ANd resetting youre instas to account for a 0km random warp in point by setting at 5-9km on the far side of the gate from where youre coming from and then warping into 0m should speed up times and im guessing autopilot will work on this cutting down autopilot travel times as well if u dont use instas at the moment.
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Franky B
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Posted - 2005.11.15 01:32:00 -
[86]
Originally by: Clutch Cargo
Edited by: Clutch Cargo on 15/11/2005 01:26:16
Truth is CCP doesn't really care about anything any of us have to say. They seem to have a plan (whether we like it or not) and they are going to implement that plan no matter what. There has only been one time I have seen them respond in any constructive manner to player complaints and that was when they put arming times on missiles/torps. In retrospect I think I would rather have that than this business of doing 5 dmg to frigs...but that's another thread.
Travel in this game sucks, instas or not. As stated in another post here 99% of travel is safe, whether in empire or 0.0. Only a precious few systems are camped and the nerf will only really effect grief in those systems. What it will do is make travelling the other 99% of systems slower.
Why not make the "warp to 0" actually get you to 0?
I hate new skills (another thread) but what I would like to see is a skill/mod that allows you jump (without gates) to systems within a certain radius of where you are. That would solve the idiotic travel times and distances and remove the need for instas.
EDIT: The law of unintended consequences
I can't really respond fully to the post by Corvus Dove but I can say for sure that if I am trying to get 5k zydrine through a camped system and I have a % chance that I am going to land 15k from the gate, I'm not going. This nerf is not "giving anything back" to PVP'er, it simply adds grief to a small % of systems.
The unintended consequence of this is that carebears simply will not go into 0.0. It's not just the cargo they risk, it's the head full of implants etc. They worked too hard to get all that to risk losing it on some randomness in travel. This will further thwart CCP's desire to move people out of empire.
i dont see how 99% of travel is safe when more than 50% of eve is 0.0 space... and just because your system is empty doesnt mean its safe. you can get jumped from another gate, 0.0 BS rats etc.
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Clutch Cargo
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Posted - 2005.11.15 01:36:00 -
[87]
Quote:
i dont see how 99% of travel is safe when more than 50% of eve is 0.0 space... and just because your system is empty doesnt mean its safe. you can get jumped from another gate, 0.0 BS rats etc.
I was referring to travel only. Look at the map, most 0.0 systems are empty. My use of the word "safe" is only in the context of gate camps/populated systems and travel.
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sonofollo
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Posted - 2005.11.15 01:37:00 -
[88]
on the whole things are safe mining barges arent meant to be travelling alone in 0.0 anyway they should have an escort - heck they can be stored at POSes and used in system anyway.
it does raises some deep space and gate issues but overall its a reasonable change. in 0.0 space u will end up using the new t2 mining barges anyway that are coming in RMR or is that Kali not sure yet they are faster - can fit an AB that works - cargo space and armour and shield are much higher
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Fellhand
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Posted - 2005.11.15 01:50:00 -
[89]
Ok, so the insta-nerf is in but it's not as bad as I was expecting. Decent chance of landing within 5km and (presumably) modules/skills to make it more accurate? Not as good as instas but I can live with it.
I'll still be suspending my account but nothing to do with the insta-nerf,just burned out and need a break.
_______________________________________________
There is no such thing as too much cynicism
Flame me if you wish, I laugh with scorn at threats...
Beware of geeks bearing gifs
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Franky B
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Posted - 2005.11.15 02:21:00 -
[90]
Originally by: Clutch Cargo
Quote:
i dont see how 99% of travel is safe when more than 50% of eve is 0.0 space... and just because your system is empty doesnt mean its safe. you can get jumped from another gate, 0.0 BS rats etc.
I was referring to travel only. Look at the map, most 0.0 systems are empty. My use of the word "safe" is only in the context of gate camps/populated systems and travel.
thats the thing, most systems are empty... but there never is a guarantee ever since CCP used the average over 30 minutes of pilots in space, you'll never know whos in the next system. get complacent and you're toast.
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