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Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 3 post(s) |

RAW23
150
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Posted - 2013.06.14 13:07:00 -
[1] - Quote
Alexander wulfgard wrote:With the recent development and expansions of EVE I believe its time to take the step to create a better capital market. Creation of a "risk free" rate. In order to value all other financial products in Eve, a risk free rate is essential. The major and minor factions all pay ISK to players via missions & bounty prizes and they receive ISK via transaction taxes, skill books etc. However they are running a deficit which is covered by "printing" ISK and hence increasing the money supply. Instead of printing ISK, CCP can create a risk free rate by selling bonds through EVE market (at NPC bank stations) to cover the defecit. I suggest 3 types of bonds: 1 week, 1mth and 3mth bonds, which are sold every Sunday. All bonds will have a notional of 10mio ISK and the rate determined by selling price. Players can enter market orders at fx 99.00 which means that the player pay 9.9mio for the bond and receive 10mio at maturity. CCP start filling highest bids first and fill them until the deficit have been covered. If rates get to high or market orders cannot cover the deficit , CCP central bank will buy the outstanding bonds by printing. To make the system more realistic and incorporated with EVE universe the current currency ISK which is completely unrealistic need to be replaced. ( https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=2974285#post2974285 ) Instead of 1 currency (ISK) , 4 new currencies wud need to be created , each printed and regulated by the major factions: Caldari yen -Ñ , Gallente Mark , Minmatar pund -ú and Amarr franc Géú. We need these changes to create a free banking system and later a efficient stock & bond market. I will create another thread on these topics later.
a) This would create an extra isk faucet.
b) Lots of other issues but I'll sum up by saying: What the hell are you thinking?!
The idea of introducing a risk and effort free way of making money that will also serve as an isk faucet (and which also depends on the introduction of four new currencies) must be one of the most spectacularly bad ideas I have seen floated on this forum. Ever.
Edit - Apologies for the overly harsh initial reaction. I think the reason your suggestion struck me as staggeringly bad is because you didnGÇÖt actually outline any possible positive effect of your suggested changes. I guess there might be some potential payoff but the idea of risk free bonds by itself is appalling. If there is some payoff it will need to be pretty significant in order to counteract this. There are two types of EVE player:
those who believe there are two types of EVE player and those who do not. |

RAW23
150
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Posted - 2013.06.14 13:39:00 -
[2] - Quote
Alexander wulfgard wrote:RAW23 you have no substance behind what you are saying. The only thing you can say, is that its a bad idea. If you have no arguements please remove your post and refrain from participate in the future.
One topic you raise (without any substance) is that you are affraid that players receive a return on an investment. I dont see your point in that, its a principle derrived from RL economics and a compensation for not having access to your money in a period of time. Yes people get a return but as the money is not availeble for them inflation will go lower. Also people generally invest their money into ships and equipment which might give them a return. This will just be an alternative.
Finally, It will put pressure on the State (CCP) to get a balanced fiscal policy in EVE and not running large defecits forever.
You haven't suggested any substantial end result at all other than some nebulous 'free banking system' and 'an efficient stock and bond market' with no indication of what you actually mean by these. So, the goal of your proposal is not at all apparent; all we have are a bunch of radical changes with no real motivation for them. The fundamental change GÇô risk free bonds GÇô is one that I find completely abhorrent and not at all in keeping with the spirit of the game. The giveaway is in the phrase GÇÿrisk freeGÇÖ, a phrase that is not at all at home in a game in which the central ethos is that actions have consequences and that nothing is perfectly safe. What you are proposing is a completely safe CCP backed form of investment. But not only does CCP secure the investment, they will also pay the interest on it, introducing new sources of isk to an economy that is already overflowing with it. So, removal of risk and the introduction of an isk faucet with no indication of why this might be useful. The idea of introducing currencies has certain merits and has been discussed a great deal on this forum but it does not depend on your central idea and so can be left aside.
So, I say again, these are awful ideas unless you can show that they will lead to some spectacular addition to the game that could not otherwise be achieved and this is something you have not done.
Quote: If you have no arguements please remove your post and refrain from participate in the future.
I think you can probably guess my answer to this request.  There are two types of EVE player:
those who believe there are two types of EVE player and those who do not. |

RAW23
150
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Posted - 2013.06.14 13:47:00 -
[3] - Quote
Alexander wulfgard wrote:
One topic you raise (without any substance) is that you are affraid that players receive a return on an investment. I dont see your point in that, its a principle derrived from RL economics and a compensation for not having access to your money in a period of time.
The objection is that they get a risk-free return, not just some return.
Quote: Yes people get a return but as the money is not availeble for them inflation will go lower.
This shows that you have little idea about the quantity of idle isk in eve. Providing new investment opportunities for isk that would, in most cases, be sitting idle anyway, will not decrease inflation.
Quote: Also people generally invest their money into ships and equipment which might give them a return. This will just be an alternative.
Investing in ships and equipment has risks. The value of your investment may go up or down and it takes skill to gauge the likely trajectories of the market. What you are suggesting is not comparable at all, since there will be no risk of loss and no skill involved.
Quote: Finally, It will put pressure on the State (CCP) to get a balanced fiscal policy in EVE and not running large defecits forever.
No. What you are suggesting is based on a baffling conflation of CCP with the fictional states in eve. The only thing your suggestion will do is introduce another way for players to receive isk from CCP. It will not, in any way shape or form balance anyone's budget because ... and this is amazing stuff ... the NPCs will not be making money from any invested isk. It will simply sit idle outside the game economy for a while and then be returned with interest. What you are suggesting will actually exacerbate the problem you want to solve. There are two types of EVE player:
those who believe there are two types of EVE player and those who do not. |

RAW23
150
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Posted - 2013.06.14 14:14:00 -
[4] - Quote
Alexander wulfgard wrote:
Let me outline the end goal first: In the future I would like to see player owned factories, banks, research facilities, universities etc. all build on RL principles.
Have you played eve? We have all those things.
Quote: These instituions will give players in EVE more choices and be the foundations for PVE wars over real assets not just ganking and griefing. These institutions would have to be so expensive to build and maintain that you would have to go to the capital markets in order to secure the funds needed.
errr ... ???
Quote: The foundation for capital markets go back to the most basics cost of capital and hence the need for a "risk free " benchmark.
Why? We have capital markets already in eve and just as in the real world they don't depend on a risk free benchmark that is secured by god.
Quote: Its true that Investors in state backed assets will receive a return and it will be a cash flow stream into the EVE economy. However as CCP now will have to balance the books it would properly have to create other income streams elsewhere to offset this.
No no no ... You are confusing ingame stories with game mechanics. CCP doesn't have to 'balance the books' of ingame entities.
Quote: Finally a risk free assets proberly will not yield that much that you will see a spike in inflation based on this. The liquidity they drain from the system will properly be more inflation dampening if anything.
What are your grounds for this claim? From my experience of the eve capital markets there are vast quantities of excess isk in the game doing nothing and earning nothing. Providing a venue for this isk to earn money will not take any money out of the active economy. It will just sit idle in a different location while at the same time also creating new streams of isk into the economy.
There are two types of EVE player:
those who believe there are two types of EVE player and those who do not. |

RAW23
150
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Posted - 2013.06.14 14:50:00 -
[5] - Quote
At this point IGÇÖm just going to back slowly out of the thread and leave you and your ideas together.
As Caleb said in your previous thread, you are somehow managing to confuse ingame lore and game mechanics and you show little evidence of any practical experience in eve's capital markets.
I don't think it's really worth discussing these ideas any further. There are two types of EVE player:
those who believe there are two types of EVE player and those who do not. |

RAW23
151
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Posted - 2013.06.14 15:15:00 -
[6] - Quote
Zaxix wrote:posting in a uniquely garbled MD troll thread. I can't believe you got taken in, Raw.
I did wonder if it was a troll but his posting history starts with him floating similar ideas in F&I and I'm generally sympathetic to people posting in a second language. Sometimes what looks like muck turns up brass. Other times it's just muck all the way down.
Also, I may be a bit out of practice.  There are two types of EVE player:
those who believe there are two types of EVE player and those who do not. |

RAW23
154
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Posted - 2013.06.15 09:49:00 -
[7] - Quote
Vaerah Vahrokha wrote: ... and Minmatar Drachmas (duct tape held together republic).
That's cold, man.
Greek air conditioning
There are two types of EVE player:
those who believe there are two types of EVE player and those who do not. |

RAW23
154
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Posted - 2013.06.15 11:36:00 -
[8] - Quote
Alexander wulfgard wrote:I am not going to comment on some peoples hash statements like: "get out" or "this is a weird thing". If they do not have any real arguments I will only hope they will stay away from this thread in the future.
You clearly have as little experience of eve's forums as you do of its economy.
There are two types of EVE player:
those who believe there are two types of EVE player and those who do not. |

RAW23
154
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Posted - 2013.06.15 12:25:00 -
[9] - Quote
Alexander wulfgard wrote:RAW23 your posts show that you as a person have very limited personal qualities and no qualifications. This is properly due to your young age. I suggest that we speak again once you at least have a high school diploma - So contact me again in 6 years time.

Thanks. I've been having a rough day and I really needed that. There are two types of EVE player:
those who believe there are two types of EVE player and those who do not. |

RAW23
158
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Posted - 2013.06.17 20:21:00 -
[10] - Quote
Lady Molefield wrote:Joan Greywind wrote: The risk free rate in EVE is the inflation rate, we already have one. Best statement in the whole thread. Also for those interpreting "risk free" as literally risk free... it's a financial term for a theoretical rate. Even IRL the risk free rate is not risk free.
The only significant risk in investing is that of a scam and he wants to remove this risk and have the bonds secured by god (CCP). The risk of FX fluctuations and inflation are completely trivial by comparison. There are two types of EVE player:
those who believe there are two types of EVE player and those who do not. |

RAW23
735
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Posted - 2014.03.08 22:34:00 -
[11] - Quote
ISD Cura Ursus wrote:OK thread was locked for cleaning, and I want to make a couple of points clear:
1. The whole thread was read by me. 2. I deleted a couple of posts that were beyond a reasonable discourse. 3. Please do not use the moderation system as a way to squash arguments.
That being said, be civil and this thread will stay unlocked.
This thread is nine months old  There are two types of EVE player:
those who believe there are two types of EVE player and those who do not. |

RAW23
735
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Posted - 2014.03.09 18:08:00 -
[12] - Quote
Far Wanderer wrote:RAW23 wrote:This thread is nine months old  ...and it's still being linked to, which means new readers had to slog through post after post of major jerk factor in order to read anything useful.
Who on earth is still linking to this thread? It is one of the most terrible ever to have appeared on MD. There are two types of EVE player:
those who believe there are two types of EVE player and those who do not. |

RAW23
737
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Posted - 2014.03.09 20:19:00 -
[13] - Quote
Far Wanderer wrote:RAW23 wrote:Far Wanderer wrote:RAW23 wrote:This thread is nine months old  ...and it's still being linked to, which means new readers had to slog through post after post of major jerk factor in order to read anything useful.  Who on earth is still linking to this thread? Who cares?
I do. You said people were still linking to it and I'm interested in who is crazy enough to find this to be a valid topic of conversation nine months later.
HTFU hardly seems applicable here.
As to GTFO - no, why on earth would I do that.
And why are you so upset? There are two types of EVE player:
those who believe there are two types of EVE player and those who do not. |

RAW23
738
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Posted - 2014.03.10 15:59:00 -
[14] - Quote
Far Wanderer wrote:RAW23 wrote:Ah - I see you are a veritable fountain of terrible ideas that demand unnecessary CCP interference in the game. I fully understand your attraction to this thread now. Laying out bait to get the thread closed, eh? Bye bye now. 
I really don't care if the thread stays open or closed. It is the home for many terrible arguments but that doesn't seem a reason to close it. It is still beyond me why an ISD would reopen it nine months after it initially closed though and your explanation that it is still frequently linked to hasn't been substantiated yet.
By the way, if you are intent on avoiding the kind of exchanges that lead to threads being locked, might I suggested you leave your 'HTFUs' and 'GTFOs' at home? There are two types of EVE player:
those who believe there are two types of EVE player and those who do not. |
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