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Author |
Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 3 post(s) |
Nevyn Auscent
Broke Sauce
304
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Posted - 2013.06.21 07:37:00 -
[31] - Quote
Flagging everyone as suspect has other bad effects in that it completely messes with Logi pilots due to the way the flags propagate & constantly renew on the logi, meaning that it weights heavily in favour of DPS pilots just after shiny killboards rather than people RP'ing and trying to be serious. So there is no ideal tool that solves all issues. A 'Fleet' sized limited engagement tool could work. As it would allow sides to engage each other without weird suspect flags popping up for repping the lawful navy of the area. But thats about the 'best' tool I can envisage, and even that has it's own issues. |
Derin Phobos
Sky Fighters Mass Overload
24
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Posted - 2013.06.21 07:56:00 -
[32] - Quote
Nevyn Auscent wrote:Flagging everyone as suspect has other bad effects in that it completely messes with Logi pilots due to the way the flags propagate & constantly renew on the logi, meaning that it weights heavily in favour of DPS pilots just after shiny killboards rather than people RP'ing and trying to be serious. So there is no ideal tool that solves all issues. A 'Fleet' sized limited engagement tool could work. As it would allow sides to engage each other without weird suspect flags popping up for repping the lawful navy of the area. But thats about the 'best' tool I can envisage, and even that has it's own issues.
Universal flags seemed to work well enough for Colelie. |
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CCP Falcon
3239
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Posted - 2013.06.21 09:53:00 -
[33] - Quote
Derin Phobos wrote:Nevyn Auscent wrote:Flagging everyone as suspect has other bad effects in that it completely messes with Logi pilots due to the way the flags propagate & constantly renew on the logi, meaning that it weights heavily in favour of DPS pilots just after shiny killboards rather than people RP'ing and trying to be serious. So there is no ideal tool that solves all issues. A 'Fleet' sized limited engagement tool could work. As it would allow sides to engage each other without weird suspect flags popping up for repping the lawful navy of the area. But thats about the 'best' tool I can envisage, and even that has it's own issues. Universal flags seemed to work well enough for Colelie.
Actually, they worked pretty badly and I had a number of people contact me to complain that, and ask why the Federation Navy were flagged in their own space.
There are arguments both ways, and there are pros and cons to both ways of doing things.
The most sensible thing to do is to go with what makes the most sense in terms of backstory as a compromise, because regardless of how we decide to flag, there'll always be complaints from at least one group involved.
CCP Falcon -á || -á EVE Community Team -á || -á EVE Illuminati -á || -á Live Events Organizer
@CCP_Falcon -á || -á-á@EVE_LiveEvents |
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CCP Falcon
3239
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Posted - 2013.06.21 09:54:00 -
[34] - Quote
John Caligan wrote:Bullshit. If corporate bellends like Microsoft can decide to remove the DRM in the XBone that they said they "couldn't just flip a switch and turn off DRM", then SURELY you guys can figure out some way to vary system sec statuses.
You're incorrect, and please keep bad language off the forums.
CCP Falcon -á || -á EVE Community Team -á || -á EVE Illuminati -á || -á Live Events Organizer
@CCP_Falcon -á || -á-á@EVE_LiveEvents |
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Xindi Kraid
The Night Wardens Viro Mors Non Est
567
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Posted - 2013.06.21 11:56:00 -
[35] - Quote
CCP Falcon wrote:Derin Phobos wrote:Nevyn Auscent wrote:Flagging everyone as suspect has other bad effects in that it completely messes with Logi pilots due to the way the flags propagate & constantly renew on the logi, meaning that it weights heavily in favour of DPS pilots just after shiny killboards rather than people RP'ing and trying to be serious. So there is no ideal tool that solves all issues. A 'Fleet' sized limited engagement tool could work. As it would allow sides to engage each other without weird suspect flags popping up for repping the lawful navy of the area. But thats about the 'best' tool I can envisage, and even that has it's own issues. Universal flags seemed to work well enough for Colelie. Actually, they worked pretty badly and I had a number of people contact me to complain that, and ask why the Federation Navy were flagged in their own space. See that's exactly why I suggested temporarily turning off CONCORD with the in-universe justification that they were overwhelmed. the DED is supposed to maintain law and order, and have hundreds of systems to patrol, most of the time they don't have to deal with more than one or two capsuleers who need concorded, so I can't see how they'd be able to handle hundreds in a system shooting everyone during live events. They've also shown a historical ineptitude at actually keeping the peace (and in fact can be bribed to war including the fact that despite their original function being to maintain peace between the empires, they officially sanctioned wars between THEM with the establishment of their militias. |
Samira Kernher
Praetorian Auxiliary Force Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris
227
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Posted - 2013.06.21 12:03:00 -
[36] - Quote
There's really no good reason why you should railroad people in a sandbox game by only flagging one side. In this case, the lore should take a backseat to the players. Sure, CONCORD might be supporting one side, but that doesn't mean that the other side should be prevented from participating because of it. |
Jowen Datloran
Science and Trade Institute Caldari State
540
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Posted - 2013.06.21 12:22:00 -
[37] - Quote
CCP Falcon wrote: Actually, they worked pretty badly and I had a number of people contact me to complain that, and ask why the Federation Navy were flagged in their own space.
Too easy.
I would need some real good argumentation to accept that two way flagging works badly. As I see it, it only benefits risk adverse players* and making the outcome of the fight predetermined.
*: Despicable Care Bears Mr. Science & Trade Institute, EVE Online Lorebook-á |
Jowen Datloran
Science and Trade Institute Caldari State
540
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Posted - 2013.06.21 12:23:00 -
[38] - Quote
Double post Mr. Science & Trade Institute, EVE Online Lorebook-á |
Derin Phobos
Sky Fighters Mass Overload
25
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Posted - 2013.06.21 16:26:00 -
[39] - Quote
CCP Falcon wrote:Derin Phobos wrote:Nevyn Auscent wrote:Flagging everyone as suspect has other bad effects in that it completely messes with Logi pilots due to the way the flags propagate & constantly renew on the logi, meaning that it weights heavily in favour of DPS pilots just after shiny killboards rather than people RP'ing and trying to be serious. So there is no ideal tool that solves all issues. A 'Fleet' sized limited engagement tool could work. As it would allow sides to engage each other without weird suspect flags popping up for repping the lawful navy of the area. But thats about the 'best' tool I can envisage, and even that has it's own issues. Universal flags seemed to work well enough for Colelie. Actually, they worked pretty badly and I had a number of people contact me to complain that, and ask why the Federation Navy were flagged in their own space. There are arguments both ways, and there are pros and cons to both ways of doing things. The most sensible thing to do is to go with what makes the most sense in terms of backstory as a compromise, because regardless of how we decide to flag, there'll always be complaints from at least one group involved.
Well, you know what they say: you can please some of the people all the time, or all the people some of the time, but you can't please all the people all the time. ;)
If it really boils down to a lore vs. mechanics argument (I.e. it's against lore to be flagged in your own system, but that's currently the most expedient way to allow full participation) then I'd argue in favor of mechanics for now until another tool can be found accomplishes the goal. You can always finagle a lore reason: "Inside contact", "[Faction] did not have the correct beacons," [Illicit faction] baited with with a can filled with a single unit of trit," "Ill-timed coffee spill in the server room." It's not ideal, but it would be a stopgap until better mechanics can be put in place to support the event.
But please, please do not railroad the events. The whole purpose of these is to make it feel like we are interacting with and changing the NPC world around us, something we don't often get to do. |
Aynen
Federal Guard and Recon Corporation
19
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Posted - 2013.06.21 17:59:00 -
[40] - Quote
One thing that really helped in making the incursion events feel less 'on rails' was that the method of interacting wasn't only shooting things. ECM and ECCM on large collidable structures (the wormholes) ment flagging wasn't needed. I think the same general principal could be used in the current events, if we can find a way to interact with the story that doesn't rely on shooting. Had we known what would happen in Haatomo a bit earlier it might have proven to be an option to unload militants into the station. One type in support of Heth, the other type to oppose him. The event actors could keep tabs on how many militants of each type are unloaded in the station and use that to flavor the story. The players can then among themselves find ways of interacting with each other. (for instance by bumping militant-carrying ships away from the station) Technically we could have already done this, had we come up with the idea quick enough, but you increase the odds of this happening by creating more awareness of what is going to happen long before it does. Some plot twists will of course be unsuited for this, but for many other events this could work. It's worked before. |
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Gorion Wassenar
Stimulus Rote Kapelle
67
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Posted - 2013.06.22 00:46:00 -
[41] - Quote
(sigh)
Wish I could have even gone. Damn timezones.... |
Denver Zariel
PO-TAY-TOES Miners Lounge Alliance
1
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Posted - 2013.09.10 18:44:00 -
[42] - Quote
Odd, I live and mine in haatomo... I haven't heard anything interesting other than some corp full of alts keeps eating all the roids. |
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