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Nyancat Audeles
Center for Advanced Studies Gallente Federation
297
|
Posted - 2013.06.16 13:35:00 -
[1] - Quote
With the upcoming T3 "rebalance" (read: nerf), I am wondering why CCP did not make any distinctions between the Tengu, Proteus, and Legion. The Legion is obviously the most underpowered of the T3's for many tasks. Does CCP realize this?
I can only hope CCP acknowledges that EVE is not "Tengus Online" but that other T3's exist too, which don't confide to the overpowered status of some other T3's. Don't base assumptions of all T3's off one T3, otherwise you'll make all but one T3 useless.
Also, just saying - "generalizing" a T3 - making it so a T3 can be fitted like a HAC but never perform as good as one, or be fitted like a recon but never perform as good as one - will make a T3 absolutely useless. T3's should be generalized in a way that a combination of certain subsystems can make it VERY powerful in one role, and weak or nonexistant in others; or it could be a jack of all trades, but master of none.
I seriously hope CCP reads this thread instead of taking a giant hammer and slamming all T3's in one blow. I hope they considerer individual T3's seperately. The Tengu is arguably overpowered for missions, but the Legion is not; nerfing both in the same way would mean that the Legion would be absolutely useless and the Tengu might still be useful, maintaining the imbalance. |
Benny Ohu
Chaotic Tranquility Casoff
1143
|
Posted - 2013.06.16 13:41:00 -
[2] - Quote
I don't know anything about T3s, but I also don't see cause for concern. CCP's been very good with balancing different ships in the same type/tier separately from each other so far. There's no need to worry. |
Destination SkillQueue
Are We There Yet
5201
|
Posted - 2013.06.16 13:44:00 -
[3] - Quote
The problem here seems to be, that instead of taking what CCP actually said, you substituted it with your own words and then started to see problems with your replacement words. For example CCP is talking about rebalancing, so there is really no need to make distinctions, since rebalancing can include both nerfs and buffs. Generalizing T3s also doesn't mean specialization, but only worse. It means multiple profiencies at the same time, which is impossible for specialized ships, but each individual profiency will remain below what a specialized ship can do in that individual area. |
ENTRACK Voidborn
Center for Advanced Studies Gallente Federation
1
|
Posted - 2013.06.16 13:45:00 -
[4] - Quote
I fully support Nyancat.
whats the point of having a ship you almost need a billion isk just to fit and lose SP when destroyed when you could get a T2 wich is a lot cheaper to buy and fit and outperforms the T3.
it would make T3 the worst investment you could make since you got the risk of losing SP besides just your ship |
Khadi Nakrar
Imperial Shipment Amarr Empire
2
|
Posted - 2013.06.16 13:46:00 -
[5] - Quote
Well i hope they will change the friggin subsystems to make some sense, for the legion augmented defense you need shield operation at lvl 3, its a bloody armor subsytem...... |
Icarus Able
Pheonix Corp Selectus
25
|
Posted - 2013.06.16 13:49:00 -
[6] - Quote
Had a quick look and im lazy anyone feel like linking the details? |
Alphea Abbra
Grim Determination Nulli Secunda
268
|
Posted - 2013.06.16 13:52:00 -
[7] - Quote
ENTRACK Voidborn wrote:I fully support Nyancat.
whats the point of having a ship you almost need a billion isk just to fit and lose SP when destroyed when you could get a T2 wich is a lot cheaper to buy and fit and outperforms the T3.
it would make T3 the worst investment you could make since you got the risk of losing SP besides just your ship But can you have 3 T2 cruisers, a T2 battlecruiser, a T1 battlecruiser and a T1 battleship capabilities for a billion? No?
Then your T3 is cheaper than the specialised roles.
For the Op, I'd just like to see where CCP said that. After seeing Ytterbium, Fozzie and Rise going through the T1 subcapitals, I'm fairly confident in their general abilities. Give them ideas, discuss the changes they propose, try it out on SiSi, enjoy results.
Sounds alright to me. |
Tiber Ibis
Republic Military School Minmatar Republic
26
|
Posted - 2013.06.16 13:57:00 -
[8] - Quote
What is the OP actually referring to? Is there actually some factual basis to back up the OPs whinging, or is it simply unsubstantiated whinging as usual? |
ENTRACK Voidborn
Center for Advanced Studies Gallente Federation
2
|
Posted - 2013.06.16 14:02:00 -
[9] - Quote
Alphea Abbra wrote:ENTRACK Voidborn wrote:I fully support Nyancat.
whats the point of having a ship you almost need a billion isk just to fit and lose SP when destroyed when you could get a T2 wich is a lot cheaper to buy and fit and outperforms the T3.
it would make T3 the worst investment you could make since you got the risk of losing SP besides just your ship But can you have 3 T2 cruisers, a T2 battlecruiser, a T1 battlecruiser and a T1 battleship capabilities for a billion? No? Then your T3 is cheaper than the specialised roles. For the Op, I'd just like to see where CCP said that. After seeing Ytterbium, Fozzie and Rise going through the T1 subcapitals, I'm fairly confident in their general abilities. Give them ideas, discuss the changes they propose, try it out on SiSi, enjoy results. Sounds alright to me.
it cost almost a billion for a single role true you could use modules for the other roles but the same goes for multiple T2 ships. the T3's wouldn't be as cost effecient as T2 would be. |
Felicity Love
STARKRAFT Joint Venture Conglomerate
685
|
Posted - 2013.06.16 14:24:00 -
[10] - Quote
Just fly GNOSIS... no real skills needed, but if you have the skills they can be tweaked into some very solid fits and they are an order of magnitude cheaper than a T3.
I love T3's... but right now they desperately need some Fozzie luvin'.
Proud Beta Tester for "Bumping Uglies for Dummies" |
|
Sanya Chan
Red Federation RvB - RED Federation
15
|
Posted - 2013.06.16 14:28:00 -
[11] - Quote
ENTRACK Voidborn wrote:Alphea Abbra wrote:ENTRACK Voidborn wrote:I fully support Nyancat.
whats the point of having a ship you almost need a billion isk just to fit and lose SP when destroyed when you could get a T2 wich is a lot cheaper to buy and fit and outperforms the T3.
it would make T3 the worst investment you could make since you got the risk of losing SP besides just your ship But can you have 3 T2 cruisers, a T2 battlecruiser, a T1 battlecruiser and a T1 battleship capabilities for a billion? No? Then your T3 is cheaper than the specialised roles. For the Op, I'd just like to see where CCP said that. After seeing Ytterbium, Fozzie and Rise going through the T1 subcapitals, I'm fairly confident in their general abilities. Give them ideas, discuss the changes they propose, try it out on SiSi, enjoy results. Sounds alright to me. it cost almost a billion for a single role true you could use modules for the other roles but the same goes for multiple T2 ships. the T3's wouldn't be as cost effecient as T2 would be.
cost is not a balancing factor deal with it |
Bolow Santosi
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
116
|
Posted - 2013.06.16 14:34:00 -
[12] - Quote
ENTRACK Voidborn wrote: it cost almost a billion for a single role true you could use modules for the other roles but the same goes for multiple T2 ships. the T3's wouldn't be as cost effecient as T2 would be.
T3's don't cost almost a billion. They cost the same or slightly less than most faction battleships, with a better tank, far better resists, all on a cruiser sized hull. They also make the best boosters by giving better bonuses, being nigh uncatchable and requiring 1bil isk worth of implants in a covops to have a chance at probing them down. All on a shorter training cycle than it is to get into a tech2 equivalent.
If you can't see how all of that might be just a teeny tiny bit broken you're either stupid or blind. |
Domanique Altares
Rifterlings Point Blank Alliance
338
|
Posted - 2013.06.16 14:38:00 -
[13] - Quote
ENTRACK Voidborn wrote: it cost almost a billion for a single role true you could use modules for the other roles but the same goes for multiple T2 ships. the T3's wouldn't be as cost effecient as T2 would be.
It costs well under a billion for a single role. But if you want to pay almost a billion, forward me your list of materials, I will happily sell them to you.
Meantime, go ahead and pack up your extra T2 ships and stick them in the cargo hold of the first one for easy transport to your next area of choice.
Oh, wait... Rifterlings Corporation is now recruiting pilots for faction warfare solo & small gang frigate PvP. Visit our website at www.rifterlings.com or join our in game channel weflyrifters to speak to a recruiter. |
Nyancat Audeles
Center for Advanced Studies Gallente Federation
298
|
Posted - 2013.06.16 14:38:00 -
[14] - Quote
Sanya Chan wrote:ENTRACK Voidborn wrote:Alphea Abbra wrote:ENTRACK Voidborn wrote:I fully support Nyancat.
whats the point of having a ship you almost need a billion isk just to fit and lose SP when destroyed when you could get a T2 wich is a lot cheaper to buy and fit and outperforms the T3.
it would make T3 the worst investment you could make since you got the risk of losing SP besides just your ship But can you have 3 T2 cruisers, a T2 battlecruiser, a T1 battlecruiser and a T1 battleship capabilities for a billion? No? Then your T3 is cheaper than the specialised roles. For the Op, I'd just like to see where CCP said that. After seeing Ytterbium, Fozzie and Rise going through the T1 subcapitals, I'm fairly confident in their general abilities. Give them ideas, discuss the changes they propose, try it out on SiSi, enjoy results. Sounds alright to me. it cost almost a billion for a single role true you could use modules for the other roles but the same goes for multiple T2 ships. the T3's wouldn't be as cost effecient as T2 would be. cost is not a balancing factor deal with it
Cost is not a balancing factor? What?
Then that must be totally why CCP increased BS mineral requirements, specifically stating so the price goes up by 40M ISK. It also must be why CCP lowered LP prices on the Navy Battlecruisers?
Cost IS a balancing factor. Deal with it.
|
Nyancat Audeles
Center for Advanced Studies Gallente Federation
298
|
Posted - 2013.06.16 14:40:00 -
[15] - Quote
Domanique Altares wrote:ENTRACK Voidborn wrote: it cost almost a billion for a single role true you could use modules for the other roles but the same goes for multiple T2 ships. the T3's wouldn't be as cost effecient as T2 would be.
It costs well under a billion for a single role. But if you want to pay almost a billion, forward me your list of materials, I will happily sell them to you. Meantime, go ahead and pack up your extra T2 ships and stick them in the cargo hold of the first one for easy transport to your next area of choice. Oh, wait... I have not met a single T3 pilot who actually carries around subsystems in their cargo hold.
Now if CCP made it so T3's could actually change subsystems in space in exchange for compensation in other areas, that would be neat... |
Sergeant Acht Scultz
School of Applied Knowledge Caldari State
830
|
Posted - 2013.06.16 14:41:00 -
[16] - Quote
Nyancat Audeles wrote:With the upcoming T3 "rebalance" (read: nerf), I am wondering why CCP did not make any distinctions between the Tengu, Proteus, and Legion. The Legion is obviously the most underpowered of the T3's for many tasks. Does CCP realize this?
I can only hope CCP acknowledges that EVE is not "Tengus Online" but that other T3's exist too, which don't confide to the overpowered status of some other T3's. Don't base assumptions of all T3's off one T3, otherwise you'll make all but one T3 useless.
Also, just saying - "generalizing" a T3 - making it so a T3 can be fitted like a HAC but never perform as good as one, or be fitted like a recon but never perform as good as one - will make a T3 absolutely useless. T3's should be generalized in a way that a combination of certain subsystems can make it VERY powerful in one role, and weak or nonexistant in others; or it could be a jack of all trades, but master of none.
I seriously hope CCP reads this thread instead of taking a giant hammer and slamming all T3's in one blow. I hope they considerer individual T3's seperately. The Tengu is arguably overpowered for missions, but the Legion is not; nerfing both in the same way would mean that the Legion would be absolutely useless and the Tengu might still be useful, maintaining the imbalance.
Lets forget for a second the Command Subsystem that shouldn't even exist in the first place.
Then lets put aside the simple fact HACs are simply bad.
Lets then talk about "versatility" and advantages for using such ships with the cost and risks involved.
1-Tengu: versatility means something when it comes to dps roles with missiles and exploration, for everything else it's just plain bad
2-Loki: the second most versatile T3 boat imho, natural Tengu predator, strong recon, decent dps, overall good
3-Proteus: huge tank but reduced mobility, lacks 1 mid slot, awesome point range making it an awesome recon while still having the highest dps of all in this role but in HAC role is terrible, med rails are terrible and ranges you can hit with blasters+null are far under regular engagement envelope (25km) after TE nerf than other T3 in HAC version.
4-Legion: best version imho atm is the HAM one with huge tank and you can perma run local rep if not under neuts, a good engagement envelope with javelins, dps bonus could get a bit of love Laser sub didn't got better but with TE nerf and other weapons changes makes it less bad of them all, still in need of a lot of love. Overall a good ship but lacks a role where it shines other than the stupid command sub.
Imho these ships are already awesome to have, they have their weaknesses and their strong points, yes I think they need a lot of love and thinking after HACs and other T2 ships revamp but we're not there yet so lets not start finding problems for something not on the table yet. *removed inappropriate ASCII art signature* - CCP Eterne |
Nyancat Audeles
Center for Advanced Studies Gallente Federation
298
|
Posted - 2013.06.16 14:42:00 -
[17] - Quote
Bolow Santosi wrote:ENTRACK Voidborn wrote: it cost almost a billion for a single role true you could use modules for the other roles but the same goes for multiple T2 ships. the T3's wouldn't be as cost effecient as T2 would be.
T3's don't cost almost a billion. They cost the same or slightly less than most faction battleships, with a better tank, far better resists, all on a cruiser sized hull. They also make the best boosters by giving better bonuses, being nigh uncatchable and requiring 1bil isk worth of implants in a covops to have a chance at probing them down. All on a shorter training cycle than it is to get into a tech2 equivalent. If you can't see how all of that might be just a teeny tiny bit broken you're either stupid or blind. You leave out the part where faction battleships have better DPS, and more buffer tank.
A well fitted T3 will often cost around a billion ISK. I agree that T3 boosts and some of the other aspects need some nerfing, but I think T3's are fine with tank and DPS right now. |
Domanique Altares
Rifterlings Point Blank Alliance
338
|
Posted - 2013.06.16 14:50:00 -
[18] - Quote
Nyancat Audeles wrote:Domanique Altares wrote:ENTRACK Voidborn wrote: it cost almost a billion for a single role true you could use modules for the other roles but the same goes for multiple T2 ships. the T3's wouldn't be as cost effecient as T2 would be.
It costs well under a billion for a single role. But if you want to pay almost a billion, forward me your list of materials, I will happily sell them to you. Meantime, go ahead and pack up your extra T2 ships and stick them in the cargo hold of the first one for easy transport to your next area of choice. Oh, wait... I have not met a single T3 pilot who actually carries around subsystems in their cargo hold. Now if CCP made it so T3's could actually change subsystems in space in exchange for compensation in other areas, that would be neat...
I see it all the time. It's the easiest way to move them station to station. Surely you don't suggest that someone hire a freighter/JF just to move a few extra subsystems? Rifterlings Corporation is now recruiting pilots for faction warfare solo & small gang frigate PvP. Visit our website at www.rifterlings.com or join our in game channel weflyrifters to speak to a recruiter. |
Beekeeper Bob
Beekeepers Anonymous
666
|
Posted - 2013.06.16 14:50:00 -
[19] - Quote
Benny Ohu wrote:I don't know anything about T3s, but I also don't see cause for concern. CCP's been very good with balancing different ships in the same type/tier separately from each other so far. There's no need to worry.
What game have you been playing?
CCP...good with balancing, now I have seen it all....
I too am excited about trading playability for more lag and shiny pictures.....:( Petition for a Minimum bounty of 10 mil. Prevent useless bounties!
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Bolow Santosi
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
116
|
Posted - 2013.06.16 14:53:00 -
[20] - Quote
Nyancat Audeles wrote: You leave out the part where faction battleships have better DPS, and more buffer tank.
A well fitted T3 will often cost around a billion ISK. I agree that T3 boosts and some of the other aspects need some nerfing, but I think T3's are fine with tank and DPS right now.
Faction battleships have better DPS with enormous sigs that make them extremely vulnerable to bombers unless you're running an armor setup.
Just looking at the Tengu and Tempest Fleet Issue fits we're using right now, The Tengu has more buffer, more resists and over 70,000 more EHP. All on a hull that takes significantly less time to train into than a T2 equivalent. Also most Tech3's will run you 600mil'ish, with a few minor exceptions, especially if you're using them as armor tanked recon ships in a fleet.
Their DPS is fine, hell the Legion could use a decent bump in the DPS department. But the Tank and training requirements need to be adjusted. |
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Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
14877
|
Posted - 2013.06.16 14:56:00 -
[21] - Quote
Nyancat Audeles wrote:Cost is not a balancing factor? What? Which part is causing you problems? Cost is not a balancing factor. High cost does not balance out high performance; low cost does not balance out low performance. If something is good, it doesn't matter how much it costs because money is trivial to come by GÇö people will get it and ignore the cheaper and worse stuff.
Quote:Then that must be totally why CCP increased BS mineral requirements No. The reason they increased BS mineral requirements was to get rid of the silly tiering structure GÇö one of the components being that certain ships were easier to build for no good reason.
Quote:It also must be why CCP lowered LP prices on the Navy Battlecruisers? No. The reason they did that was to increase availability. Cost is a result, not a factor in anything.
Quote:Also, just saying - "generalizing" a T3 - making it so a T3 can be fitted like a HAC but never perform as good as one, or be fitted like a recon but never perform as good as one - will make a T3 absolutely useless. No, it will make them balanced. No cruiser should be as good as, or better than, the HAC in doing the HAC's role.
Quote:What is the OP actually referring to? Is there actually some factual basis to back up the OPs whinging, or is it simply unsubstantiated whinging as usual? Nothing. He's just misread a few dev statements and invented some particular doom that is (not really) coming our way that he desperately wants to avoidGǪ GÇ£If you're not willing to fight for what you have in GëívGëí you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.GÇ¥
Get a good start: newbie skill plan 2.0. |
Sergeant Acht Scultz
School of Applied Knowledge Caldari State
830
|
Posted - 2013.06.16 15:01:00 -
[22] - Quote
Nyancat Audeles wrote:A well fitted T3 will often cost around a billion ISK. I agree that T3 boosts and some of the other aspects need some nerfing, but I think T3's are fine with tank and DPS right now.
[Tengu, Cheapo T3] Ballistic Control System II Ballistic Control System II Ballistic Control System II Ballistic Control System II
10MN Afterburner II Pithi B-Type Small Shield Booster Large Shield Extender II EM Ward Field II Adaptive Invulnerability Field II 'Copasetic' Particle Field Acceleration
Heavy Assault Missile Launcher II, Scourge Rage Heavy Assault Missile Heavy Assault Missile Launcher II, Scourge Rage Heavy Assault Missile Heavy Assault Missile Launcher II, Scourge Rage Heavy Assault Missile Heavy Assault Missile Launcher II, Scourge Rage Heavy Assault Missile Heavy Assault Missile Launcher II, Scourge Rage Heavy Assault Missile Heavy Assault Missile Launcher II, Scourge Rage Heavy Assault Missile
Medium Ancillary Current Router I Medium Hydraulic Bay Thrusters I Medium Hydraulic Bay Thrusters I
Tengu Defensive - Amplification Node Tengu Electronics - Dissolution Sequencer Tengu Engineering - Augmented Capacitor Reservoir Tengu Offensive - Accelerated Ejection Bay Tengu Propulsion - Fuel Catalyst
886 DPS at 39.2KM with Rage Kin
590 DPS at 59.2Km with Kin Javelin
754 DPS at 39.5KM with Kin CN Scourge
708 DPS at 39.2Km with Rage EM/Thermal/Explosive DMG types
472 DPS at 59.2KM With Javelins EM/Thermal/Explosive DMG types
603 DPS at 39.5KM with CN EM/Thermal/Explosive DMG types
Notice T1 rigs, no implants, no combat boosters taken in consideration
750 Million Isk average price, we're far behind the 1B mark considering the single cost of a B-Type Small shield booster is already around 150M *removed inappropriate ASCII art signature* - CCP Eterne |
Domanique Altares
Rifterlings Point Blank Alliance
338
|
Posted - 2013.06.16 15:06:00 -
[23] - Quote
Sergeant Acht Scultz wrote:Nyancat Audeles wrote:A well fitted T3 will often cost around a billion ISK. I agree that T3 boosts and some of the other aspects need some nerfing, but I think T3's are fine with tank and DPS right now. 750 Million Isk average price, we're far behind the 1B mark considering the single cost of a B-Type Small shield booster is already around 150M
You missed the 'well fitted' part.
Apparently you aren't yet aware that T3s simply cannot function properly without hundreds of millions worth of ISK in faction and deadspace mods, and T2 rigs.
OP and other sycophants will be along to correct you shortly. Rifterlings Corporation is now recruiting pilots for faction warfare solo & small gang frigate PvP. Visit our website at www.rifterlings.com or join our in game channel weflyrifters to speak to a recruiter. |
Jarod Garamonde
Action Bastards
272
|
Posted - 2013.06.16 15:12:00 -
[24] - Quote
I could have sworn that the whole point of a T3 was that it's over-powered.... that's supposed what justifies buying a Cruiser that costs almost as much (when fully fitted) as a (naked) carrier..... "you can identify eve players by looking at their cars. Since they don't drive what they can't afford to lose."-á --áBienator II |
Bolow Santosi
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
116
|
Posted - 2013.06.16 15:16:00 -
[25] - Quote
Jarod Garamonde wrote:I could have sworn that the whole point of a T3 was that it's over-powered.... that's supposed what justifies buying a Cruiser that costs almost as much (when fully fitted) as a (naked) carrier.....
Except it costs significantly less than a Carrier hull when fully fitted, unless you're stuffing it full of T2 rigs and deadspace mods. Which aren't needed at all except for a few fits where you need the CPU (Legion) or using it as an armor tanked recon for fleets (Proteus, Loki). |
Sergeant Acht Scultz
School of Applied Knowledge Caldari State
830
|
Posted - 2013.06.16 15:23:00 -
[26] - Quote
Domanique Altares wrote:Sergeant Acht Scultz wrote:Nyancat Audeles wrote:A well fitted T3 will often cost around a billion ISK. I agree that T3 boosts and some of the other aspects need some nerfing, but I think T3's are fine with tank and DPS right now. 750 Million Isk average price, we're far behind the 1B mark considering the single cost of a B-Type Small shield booster is already around 150M You missed the 'well fitted' part. Apparently you aren't yet aware that T3s simply cannot function properly without hundreds of millions worth of ISK in faction and deadspace mods, and T2 rigs. OP and other sycophants will be along to correct you shortly.
Ho I stand corrected and address my self in the following snowflake fit:
[Tengu, Special Snowflake] Estamel's Modified Ballistic Control System Estamel's Modified Ballistic Control System Estamel's Modified Ballistic Control System Estamel's Modified Ballistic Control System
Corelum A-Type 10MN Afterburner Estamel's Modified Shield Boost Amplifier Pithi A-Type Small Shield Booster Caldari Navy Large Shield Extender Estamel's Modified EM Ward Field Estamel's Modified Adaptive Invulnerability Field
Caldari Navy Heavy Assault Missile Launcher, Caldari Navy Scourge Heavy Assault Missile Caldari Navy Heavy Assault Missile Launcher, Caldari Navy Scourge Heavy Assault Missile Caldari Navy Heavy Assault Missile Launcher, Caldari Navy Scourge Heavy Assault Missile Caldari Navy Heavy Assault Missile Launcher, Caldari Navy Scourge Heavy Assault Missile Caldari Navy Heavy Assault Missile Launcher, Caldari Navy Scourge Heavy Assault Missile Caldari Navy Heavy Assault Missile Launcher, Caldari Navy Scourge Heavy Assault Missile
Medium Hydraulic Bay Thrusters II Medium Hydraulic Bay Thrusters II Medium Rocket Fuel Cache Partition I
Tengu Defensive - Amplification Node Tengu Electronics - Dissolution Sequencer Tengu Engineering - Augmented Capacitor Reservoir Tengu Offensive - Accelerated Ejection Bay Tengu Propulsion - Fuel Catalyst
990 DPS with no heat yadaya full expensive pirate implants yadaya +OGB etc etc, sry, next time I'll wipe my self before posting
*removed inappropriate ASCII art signature* - CCP Eterne |
Nyancat Audeles
Center for Advanced Studies Gallente Federation
300
|
Posted - 2013.06.16 15:39:00 -
[27] - Quote
Bolow Santosi wrote:Nyancat Audeles wrote: You leave out the part where faction battleships have better DPS, and more buffer tank.
A well fitted T3 will often cost around a billion ISK. I agree that T3 boosts and some of the other aspects need some nerfing, but I think T3's are fine with tank and DPS right now.
Faction battleships have better DPS with enormous sigs that make them extremely vulnerable to bombers unless you're running an armor setup. Just looking at the Tengu and Tempest Fleet Issue fits we're using right now, The Tengu has more buffer, more resists and over 70,000 more EHP. All on a hull that takes significantly less time to train into than a T2 equivalent. Also most Tech3's will run you 600mil'ish, with a few minor exceptions, mostly if you're using them as armor tanked recon ships in a fleet. Their DPS is fine, hell the Legion could use a decent bump in the DPS department. But the Tank and training requirements need to be adjusted.
I don't really fly shield, so you probably know more about shield than I do.
However, I do agree on training time. Tech 3 should take longer to train, and training should be the sum of the parts (of the specialized roles).
From what I've heard, the Tengu does have insane shield buffer. But the Proteus and Legion have decent buffer - not overpowered, but in between a well fit BS and BC. This brings me back to my point - balance the T3's individually, instead of a 1-change-fits-all solution.
I mostly agree with you. It's just the fact that CCP could take another one-change-fits-all solution like they did with the resist nerfs (which wasn't necessarily "bad", but it might have been better if the changes were centered around something like tech level). |
Domanique Altares
Rifterlings Point Blank Alliance
338
|
Posted - 2013.06.16 15:45:00 -
[28] - Quote
Sergeant Acht Scultz wrote:Domanique Altares wrote:Sergeant Acht Scultz wrote:Nyancat Audeles wrote:A well fitted T3 will often cost around a billion ISK. I agree that T3 boosts and some of the other aspects need some nerfing, but I think T3's are fine with tank and DPS right now. 750 Million Isk average price, we're far behind the 1B mark considering the single cost of a B-Type Small shield booster is already around 150M You missed the 'well fitted' part. Apparently you aren't yet aware that T3s simply cannot function properly without hundreds of millions worth of ISK in faction and deadspace mods, and T2 rigs. OP and other sycophants will be along to correct you shortly. Ho I stand corrected and address my self in the following snowflake fit: [Tengu, Special Snowflake] Estamel's Modified Ballistic Control System Estamel's Modified Ballistic Control System Estamel's Modified Ballistic Control System Estamel's Modified Ballistic Control System Corelum A-Type 10MN Afterburner Estamel's Modified Shield Boost Amplifier Pithi A-Type Small Shield Booster Caldari Navy Large Shield Extender Estamel's Modified EM Ward Field Estamel's Modified Adaptive Invulnerability Field Caldari Navy Heavy Assault Missile Launcher, Caldari Navy Scourge Heavy Assault Missile Caldari Navy Heavy Assault Missile Launcher, Caldari Navy Scourge Heavy Assault Missile Caldari Navy Heavy Assault Missile Launcher, Caldari Navy Scourge Heavy Assault Missile Caldari Navy Heavy Assault Missile Launcher, Caldari Navy Scourge Heavy Assault Missile Caldari Navy Heavy Assault Missile Launcher, Caldari Navy Scourge Heavy Assault Missile Caldari Navy Heavy Assault Missile Launcher, Caldari Navy Scourge Heavy Assault Missile Medium Hydraulic Bay Thrusters II Medium Hydraulic Bay Thrusters II Medium Rocket Fuel Cache Partition I Tengu Defensive - Amplification Node Tengu Electronics - Dissolution Sequencer Tengu Engineering - Augmented Capacitor Reservoir Tengu Offensive - Accelerated Ejection Bay Tengu Propulsion - Fuel Catalyst 990 DPS with no heat yadaya full expensive pirate implants yadaya +OGB etc etc, sry, next time I'll wipe my self before posting
This is a much better Tengu fit, more in line with the ideals of costing more than a Faction Battleship.
There really is no reason that T3 should cost less than billions and billions to fit. Cost is a balance factor, and the ship is too OP for regular modules. Rifterlings Corporation is now recruiting pilots for faction warfare solo & small gang frigate PvP. Visit our website at www.rifterlings.com or join our in game channel weflyrifters to speak to a recruiter. |
Nyancat Audeles
Center for Advanced Studies Gallente Federation
300
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Posted - 2013.06.16 15:51:00 -
[29] - Quote
Domanique Altares wrote:Sergeant Acht Scultz wrote:Domanique Altares wrote:Sergeant Acht Scultz wrote:Nyancat Audeles wrote:A well fitted T3 will often cost around a billion ISK. I agree that T3 boosts and some of the other aspects need some nerfing, but I think T3's are fine with tank and DPS right now. 750 Million Isk average price, we're far behind the 1B mark considering the single cost of a B-Type Small shield booster is already around 150M You missed the 'well fitted' part. Apparently you aren't yet aware that T3s simply cannot function properly without hundreds of millions worth of ISK in faction and deadspace mods, and T2 rigs. OP and other sycophants will be along to correct you shortly. Ho I stand corrected and address my self in the following snowflake fit: [Tengu, Special Snowflake] Estamel's Modified Ballistic Control System Estamel's Modified Ballistic Control System Estamel's Modified Ballistic Control System Estamel's Modified Ballistic Control System Corelum A-Type 10MN Afterburner Estamel's Modified Shield Boost Amplifier Pithi A-Type Small Shield Booster Caldari Navy Large Shield Extender Estamel's Modified EM Ward Field Estamel's Modified Adaptive Invulnerability Field Caldari Navy Heavy Assault Missile Launcher, Caldari Navy Scourge Heavy Assault Missile Caldari Navy Heavy Assault Missile Launcher, Caldari Navy Scourge Heavy Assault Missile Caldari Navy Heavy Assault Missile Launcher, Caldari Navy Scourge Heavy Assault Missile Caldari Navy Heavy Assault Missile Launcher, Caldari Navy Scourge Heavy Assault Missile Caldari Navy Heavy Assault Missile Launcher, Caldari Navy Scourge Heavy Assault Missile Caldari Navy Heavy Assault Missile Launcher, Caldari Navy Scourge Heavy Assault Missile Medium Hydraulic Bay Thrusters II Medium Hydraulic Bay Thrusters II Medium Rocket Fuel Cache Partition I Tengu Defensive - Amplification Node Tengu Electronics - Dissolution Sequencer Tengu Engineering - Augmented Capacitor Reservoir Tengu Offensive - Accelerated Ejection Bay Tengu Propulsion - Fuel Catalyst 990 DPS with no heat yadaya full expensive pirate implants yadaya +OGB etc etc, sry, next time I'll wipe my self before posting This is a much better Tengu fit, more in line with the ideals of costing more than a Faction Battleship. There really is no reason that T3 should cost less than billions and billions to fit. Cost is a balance factor, and the ship is too OP for regular modules.
While "billions and billions" seems a bit much, I agree that T3's in their current form could cost a bit more to balance for their capabilities. This might cause a decline in the amount of exploration T3's, though, which I'm not sure if CCP wants... |
Ariel Dawn
F9X
981
|
Posted - 2013.06.16 16:03:00 -
[30] - Quote
Are you seriously PRE-COMPLAINING about the incoming balance changes that have yet to be actually discussed in any significant detail? You're already mad about the non-existent slight to Legions versus the other T3s?
My hands are pretty small so I don't think they're sufficient enough to provide a large enough facepalm to cover the amount of face-palming required. We need Shaquil O'Neal up in this joint.
EVE community, never change. |
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