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Rordan D'Kherr
Imperial Academy Amarr Empire
455
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Posted - 2013.06.24 08:00:00 -
[61] - Quote
Funny to see all the pubbies complaining about the best improvement an MMO has got ever.
Guys, if you are new to the game, remember: There were times when you had 1-2 frames per minute with 300 people on grid. _______________________________________ Don't be scared, because being afk is not a crime. |
Lady Areola Fappington
New Order Logistics CODE.
367
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Posted - 2013.06.24 08:38:00 -
[62] - Quote
Grimpak wrote:
well, the other improvement they had in sight was to implement something akin to Ifiniband to move processing threads about the whole network of processors in the server cluster. you don't need to be a tecnojumbo guy to understand that this bit here is pretty much hi-tech edge that only a handfull of companies have the capability to have it done, if there was anybody that did it.
when they implenented TiDi, it was visible that it was a stopgap so that they could catch some air and develop new ways, including the Infiniband project. Players, as usual, think the system can handle 1 zillion of players, so they try to put 2 zillion players in the same system. so yes, it's no wonder you get max TiDi in the end.
It's honestly rather funny to listen to the Dunning-Kruger know-it-alls screaming "Fix TiDi, Fix lag, I'm not a tech just fix it! More servers more code!" (This of course, not directed at you Mr. Grim, you seem to grasp it.)
If you actually pay attention to the tech world, and MMO gaming in particular, you find out CCP does some groundbreaking things with it's systems. IIRC, CCP has one of the either top 10 or top 25 supercomputers in the world, and Jita lives on hardware originally designed to keep up with high-speed high-volume Wall Street style trading (ironic, huh?).
The problem is us players. Population will always follow lag. Pack 2500 in a system, we'll try putting 3000 in. Get 3000 working smooth, we'll go up to 3500. Don't worry miners, I'm here to help!
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Neuntausend
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
42
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Posted - 2013.06.24 12:28:00 -
[63] - Quote
Rordan D'Kherr wrote:Funny to see all the pubbies complaining about the best improvement an MMO has got ever.
Guys, if you are new to the game, remember: There were times when you had 1-2 frames per minute with 300 people on grid.
Tidi is indeed a good thing. When it lags despite of time running at 10% it still sucks.
TQ is nowhere near top 10, I am certain. In gaming there's nothing like it, but modern supercomputers are way out of TQs reach. |
Muad 'dib
The Imperial Fedaykin Amarrian Commandos
1152
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Posted - 2013.06.24 12:31:00 -
[64] - Quote
I always thought TiDi was a bit of a werid thing to introduce.
Take a fight that lasts 2 hours, with heavy TiDi who knows how long you have to wait before you blown up/win
People have lives and need to eat etc TiDi is very bad for people with specific time windows to play and this makes 0.0 more unattractive. Cosmic signature detected. . . . http://i.imgur.com/Z7NfIS6.jpg I got 99 likes, and this post aint one.
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Neuntausend
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
42
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Posted - 2013.06.24 12:36:00 -
[65] - Quote
Muad 'dib wrote:People have lives and need to eat etc TiDi is very bad for people with specific time windows to play and this makes 0.0 more unattractive.
The same was true before as well. Fights before TiDi could take just as long as you had to wait for sessiontimers for 20 minutes straight, modules fired once and then either never again or you couldn't turn them of for the next 15 minutes. Blobfights don't work well with time restrictions, especially since players will not adapt to your plans as well. |
Sergeant Acht Scultz
School of Applied Knowledge Caldari State
885
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Posted - 2013.06.24 12:50:00 -
[66] - Quote
Muad 'dib wrote:I always thought TiDi was a bit of a werid thing to introduce.
Take a fight that lasts 2 hours, with heavy TiDi who knows how long you have to wait before you blown up/win
People have lives and need to eat etc TiDi is very bad for people with specific time windows to play and this makes 0.0 more unattractive.
When you fleet up for a fight and spend already more than 2 fighting with TiDI just to get at destination, then another 1.5H fighting again with TiDi flowing warp/aling instructions to finally fight for 30min with only 1000 in system sucks.
Last year I've done fights with over 2800 in local, super/titan fleets on grid drones deployed, several support fleets fighting each other, bubbles popping everywhere and was far more playable than these last 600+guys fleets I've been doing lately.
Don't know wtf CCP is doing about reinforcement nodes or the heck they do but it's getting worst, not better. *removed inappropriate ASCII art signature* - CCP Eterne |
Smoking Blunts
ZC Industries Dark Stripes
605
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Posted - 2013.06.24 13:22:00 -
[67] - Quote
Sergeant Acht Scultz wrote:Muad 'dib wrote:I always thought TiDi was a bit of a werid thing to introduce.
Take a fight that lasts 2 hours, with heavy TiDi who knows how long you have to wait before you blown up/win
People have lives and need to eat etc TiDi is very bad for people with specific time windows to play and this makes 0.0 more unattractive. When you fleet up for a fight and spend already more than 2 fighting with TiDI just to get at destination, then another 1.5H fighting again with TiDi flowing warp/aling instructions to finally fight for 30min with only 1000 in system sucks. Last year I've done fights with over 2800 in local, super/titan fleets on grid drones deployed, several support fleets fighting each other, bubbles popping everywhere and was far more playable than these last 600+guys fleets I've been doing lately. Don't know wtf CCP is doing about reinforcement nodes or the heck they do but it's getting worst, not better.
tbh I think the newly introduced lag into TiDi is caused by all the extra fluffy crap they added that cant be turned off. 2000 people jumping into a system scanning for anoms. like wtf were they thinking? OMG when can i get a pic here
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baltec1
Bat Country
7011
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Posted - 2013.06.24 13:27:00 -
[68] - Quote
Sergeant Acht Scultz wrote:Muad 'dib wrote:I always thought TiDi was a bit of a werid thing to introduce.
Take a fight that lasts 2 hours, with heavy TiDi who knows how long you have to wait before you blown up/win
People have lives and need to eat etc TiDi is very bad for people with specific time windows to play and this makes 0.0 more unattractive. When you fleet up for a fight and spend already more than 2 fighting with TiDI just to get at destination, then another 1.5H fighting again with TiDi flowing warp/aling instructions to finally fight for 30min with only 1000 in system sucks. Last year I've done fights with over 2800 in local, super/titan fleets on grid drones deployed, several support fleets fighting each other, bubbles popping everywhere and was far more playable than these last 600+guys fleets I've been doing lately. Don't know wtf CCP is doing about reinforcement nodes or the heck they do but it's getting worst, not better.
Those fights happened on a reinforced node. |
Muad 'dib
The Imperial Fedaykin Amarrian Commandos
1154
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Posted - 2013.06.24 13:35:00 -
[69] - Quote
baltec1 wrote:Sergeant Acht Scultz wrote:Muad 'dib wrote:I always thought TiDi was a bit of a werid thing to introduce.
Take a fight that lasts 2 hours, with heavy TiDi who knows how long you have to wait before you blown up/win
People have lives and need to eat etc TiDi is very bad for people with specific time windows to play and this makes 0.0 more unattractive. When you fleet up for a fight and spend already more than 2 fighting with TiDI just to get at destination, then another 1.5H fighting again with TiDi flowing warp/aling instructions to finally fight for 30min with only 1000 in system sucks. Last year I've done fights with over 2800 in local, super/titan fleets on grid drones deployed, several support fleets fighting each other, bubbles popping everywhere and was far more playable than these last 600+guys fleets I've been doing lately. Don't know wtf CCP is doing about reinforcement nodes or the heck they do but it's getting worst, not better. Those fights happened on a reinforced node.
http://i.imgur.com/A18FbLt.jpg ?
Cosmic signature detected. . . . http://i.imgur.com/Z7NfIS6.jpg I got 99 likes, and this post aint one.
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BoBoZoBo
Paragon Fury Tactical Narcotics Team
253
|
Posted - 2013.06.24 14:59:00 -
[70] - Quote
Really? You don't remember the kind of lag and black screens we had before TiDi was introduced do you?
It's like banging a smoking hot woman and asking CCP to bring that old smelly hag back, but only because you forget how bad it was, or you just were not here to experience it;
TiDi is a fu@king gift. Why don't you go play that other game that lets you fight in 2000 man fleets... Primary Test Subject GÇó SmackTalker Elite |
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Urgg Boolean
Center for Advanced Studies Gallente Federation
352
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Posted - 2013.06.24 16:18:00 -
[71] - Quote
Time dilation is a program to hire older, fatter, slower and burnt out hamsters and simultaneously avoid age-related job discrimination. These hamsters are better off making a living wage compared to being on the dole and dragging down society. We must learn to accept this for the sake geriatric hamsters and society in general. |
Alavaria Fera
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
3731
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Posted - 2013.06.24 16:56:00 -
[72] - Quote
Grimpak wrote:when they implenented TiDi, it was visible that it was a stopgap so that they could catch some air and develop new ways, including the Infiniband project. Players, as usual, think the system can handle 1 zillion of players, so they try to put 2 zillion players in the same system. so yes, it's no wonder you get max TiDi in the end. Of course, we're blobbers. You better count on one-upping the other side until we're all in a TiDi Wonderland. There are no goons. The goons' 0.0 dream is over.
TEST Defence, Please Ignore |
Ruskarn Andedare
Lion Investments
202
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Posted - 2013.06.24 18:02:00 -
[73] - Quote
Smoking Blunts wrote: tbh I think the newly introduced lag into TiDi is caused by all the extra fluffy crap they added that cant be turned off. 2000 people jumping into a system scanning for anoms. like wtf were they thinking?
Surely most of that is client side, the server just has to feed the anom info with the rest of the system data |
Murk Paradox
Red Tsunami The Cursed Few
409
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Posted - 2013.06.24 18:05:00 -
[74] - Quote
Infinity Ziona wrote:Vaerah Vahrokha wrote:Vicar2008 wrote:I really aint wanting to login to this crap. This is all....... It's actually a process akin to how nature works. More grass crops up due to a good season? More herbivores will be able to survive because of that and they'll grow their numbers till they are again at a fine line below starvation. More carnivores will then be able to survive because of more herbivores and they too will push the line between growth and starvation induced "balance". Same for blobsec, the more you allow to play in the same system, the more will join them till the server will (once again) barely manage to work. Double ther server and double the blobbers will come, in a positive feedback process where CCP can't win because regardless of how powerful they make the server, N + 1 blobbers will join in till the server is brought down to its knees. I have suggested to implement some diminishing returns mechanism to keep blobbers within less-than-pathetic amounts but alas, blobbers flamed me. Yup. The pile all your pilots into one system thing is getting old. So old problems return. Needs to be a better system. Hate to say it but I will, the system in WoW in BG where you needed to have multiple groups at different places to cap flags is superior to this pile as many people into one point and lag the node to death EvE system. There are likely many other solutions besides that though.
So you think a 40v40 fight is going to outperform a 700 v 700? Great! You passed basic mathematics.
What if you have every battleground fight in one match, and every person in them had atleast 2-3 pets?
It still wouldn't match the scale we are talking.
But you're right, I too used to miss elementary school when I had to take an important test in college.
Now that we have that out of the way....
TiDi is going to happen. Time slows down when you have congestion on Eve servers. Just like any stretch a freeway in rush hour traffic. Certain chokepoints will move at 30% of what it should.
If you do not like Jita's congestion... move to a different trade hub. You really won;t be losing THAT much money if you think about it. Or atleast, the money you would be spending would be for a greater peace of mind.
TiDi affecting your mining? Find a new region to hope over to. Especially if you are in highsec.
Oh, you're a null entity who can't go on a roam because of TiDi? Dock up or rat for now. Stand down for a good 20 minutes. It'll clear up. (Yes, yes it will. Syndicate was affected by the activity in Fountain, we even roamed through to outer ring. Some bits got laggy and dicey but nothing major for very long).
Yes TiDi is a problem, a nuisance, and a hassle.
But it will happen. "Never rub another man's rhubarb." -Joker in Batman (Jack Nicholson) Just get a catalyst, blow him up and the post in local "Just a friendly reminder that I'm mining here and not you." -Abrazzar
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Murk Paradox
Red Tsunami The Cursed Few
409
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Posted - 2013.06.24 18:12:00 -
[75] - Quote
Alavaria Fera wrote:Pisov viet wrote:Vicar2008 wrote:I really aint wanting to login to this crap. This is all....... Already on the way to fix the issue, then. This is part of a war winning strategy. Imagine shooting structures in TiDi, the joy.
That would actually be fun.
Make bets on the % of shields the structure has left at the next "update". "Never rub another man's rhubarb." -Joker in Batman (Jack Nicholson) Just get a catalyst, blow him up and the post in local "Just a friendly reminder that I'm mining here and not you." -Abrazzar
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Murk Paradox
Red Tsunami The Cursed Few
409
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Posted - 2013.06.24 18:16:00 -
[76] - Quote
Frostys Virpio wrote:Isn't there a paperwork to be done to request a node to be reinforced in advance? If yes, was it filled in due time before the event?
Also, would it be possible for an invasion to happen in ultiple system insetda of all jumping in the same at the same time? I mean by now everybody know it jams after a few hundred. Is it impossible to work around the current limitation since a hard fix probably won't happen soon?
I would assume that something like Fountain should already be filed, and that any CCP employee in any of those corps involved should have made the necessary calls.
Anything less is irresponsible. "Never rub another man's rhubarb." -Joker in Batman (Jack Nicholson) Just get a catalyst, blow him up and the post in local "Just a friendly reminder that I'm mining here and not you." -Abrazzar
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Toshiro Hasegawa
The Circus Corp Nulli Tertius
13
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Posted - 2013.06.24 18:38:00 -
[77] - Quote
lolz me loves da pvp tears .. QQ
moar please ccp |
Vaerah Vahrokha
Vahrokh Consulting
4208
|
Posted - 2013.06.24 18:48:00 -
[78] - Quote
Kharamete wrote: The primary thing being that you do not actually understand is the nature of the problem, which is social rather than technological. CCP can never solve the problem of too many people in the same fight, because as soon as CCP achieve a level of stability at a certain level, then the players bring in even more players until the system once again becomes unstable.
TiDi is a solution to a social problem. Unfortunately it does not act much as a deterrent to the lemming behaviour of the player base that insist on bringing more and more people to a fight. CCP can never engineer away the human element, no matter how much hardware they dedicate to the problem.
Look, overpopulation phenomenon happens in nature. Nature has developed efficient ways to deal with the issue, be it simple starvation due to scarcity of resources to lemmings brute force migrations that result in mass deaths.
In MMOs the most used and efficient way to deal with overpopulation is to place diminishing returns. If benefits from taking in more people would rapidly decrease past a certain thresold, then it'd be useless to farm huge tons of disposable fresh meat to throw to the grinder and the phenomenon would slowly settle down to the last best known balance between numbers and efficiency. Auditing | Collateral holding and insurance | Consulting | PLEX for Good Charity
Twitter channel |
Amarra Mandalin
Red Federation RvB - RED Federation
687
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Posted - 2013.06.24 19:00:00 -
[79] - Quote
Lady Areola Fappington wrote:[quote=Grimpak]
It's honestly rather funny to listen to the Dunning-Kruger know-it-alls screaming "Fix TiDi, Fix lag, I'm not a tech just fix it! More servers more code!" (This of course, not directed at you Mr. Grim, you seem to grasp it.)
If you actually pay attention to the tech world, and MMO gaming in particular, you find out CCP does some groundbreaking things with it's systems. IIRC, CCP has one of the either top 10 or top 25 supercomputers in the world, and Jita lives on hardware originally designed to keep up with high-speed high-volume Wall Street style trading (ironic, huh?).
The problem is us players. Population will always follow lag. Pack 2500 in a system, we'll try putting 3000 in. Get 3000 working smooth, we'll go up to 3500.
One of my beats was soft tech and I have 250+ games, so I have an inkling of what is going on. But if you pay attention to the business world, the customer is always right -- even when they are wrong. They don't care about military grade supercomputers, they care if their dam things work. That is business, that is life. |
Smoking Blunts
ZC Industries Dark Stripes
606
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Posted - 2013.06.24 19:04:00 -
[80] - Quote
Ruskarn Andedare wrote:Smoking Blunts wrote: tbh I think the newly introduced lag into TiDi is caused by all the extra fluffy crap they added that cant be turned off. 2000 people jumping into a system scanning for anoms. like wtf were they thinking?
Surely most of that is client side, the server just has to feed the anom info with the rest of the system data
yeh probably, but before all the pointless fluffy stuff was dumped on us TiDi wasn't this extreme, id just love them to remove what ever has made the game worse to play
pre patch 10% TiDi was not this bad. most people ive spoken agree on this, and this is what needs to be addressed imho OMG when can i get a pic here
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Malcolm Shinhwa
Suns Of Korhal Terran Commonwealth
58
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Posted - 2013.06.24 19:12:00 -
[81] - Quote
DarthNefarius wrote:With the TiDi in HI SEC (especially Jita & Caldari PRIME event ) its showing that EVE is NOT DYING: the opposite EVE is THRIVING!!! What CCP really needs is to account that we may need a new way to account for Jita CAP & live events in HI SEC & especially NULL SEC big battles code wise. Patience is needed & I'm sure CCP is listening & banging thier DEV heads on server TECH that will help alleviate TiDi & other issues
IMHO in the meantime CCP should make Amarr more attractive as a second HUB to relieve the issues that the Jita CAP is presenting lately ( such as adding more gates to Amarr & possibly Dodixie & HEK ) Also for the next Caladri Prime like live event CCP should have multiple systems contingencies to spread out the CAPs for systems
Or maybe just iterate that Launcher one more time. Bet that will fix everything right up! I have 5 different chars that I play. This may be my main, or maybe not. I have no idea. |
Malcolm Shinhwa
Suns Of Korhal Terran Commonwealth
58
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Posted - 2013.06.24 19:19:00 -
[82] - Quote
Joan Greywind wrote:http://www.pcgamer.com/2013/06/15/eve-online/
Please read this link (it was linked on this forum before but can't find it).
You can see that CCP is trying their best (I don't know **** about computer hardware, but if you are using military one of a kind setup I assume that is good), and the problem is much more complicated that it seems.
I always love the "military grade" descriptor. As if that shows something must be really good. It might be good in the one aspect the military requires: reliable. As in, doesn't break. Doesn't mean its fast. Doesn't mean it will even get the job done in the best way. Just that when it is deployed it will last.
When someone says a piece of gear comes from the military, remember one thing: Almost everything in the military is designed and built by the lowest bidder. If you ever get into a military helicopter, please try to put that thought out of your mind.
I have 5 different chars that I play. This may be my main, or maybe not. I have no idea. |
Grimpak
Midnight Elites United Federation of Commerce
941
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Posted - 2013.06.24 20:07:00 -
[83] - Quote
Alavaria Fera wrote:Grimpak wrote:when they implenented TiDi, it was visible that it was a stopgap so that they could catch some air and develop new ways, including the Infiniband project. Players, as usual, think the system can handle 1 zillion of players, so they try to put 2 zillion players in the same system. so yes, it's no wonder you get max TiDi in the end. Of course, we're blobbers. You better count on one-upping the other side until we're all in a TiDi Wonderland. I call it "human nature". if you want to call it "blobbing", then by all means. [img]http://eve-files.com/sig/grimpak[/img]
[quote]The more I know about humans, the more I love animals.[/quote] ain't that right |
Frostys Virpio
Lame Corp Name
505
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Posted - 2013.06.24 20:47:00 -
[84] - Quote
Murk Paradox wrote:Frostys Virpio wrote:Isn't there a paperwork to be done to request a node to be reinforced in advance? If yes, was it filled in due time before the event?
Also, would it be possible for an invasion to happen in ultiple system insetda of all jumping in the same at the same time? I mean by now everybody know it jams after a few hundred. Is it impossible to work around the current limitation since a hard fix probably won't happen soon? I would assume that something like Fountain should already be filed, and that any CCP employee in any of those corps involved should have made the necessary calls. Anything less is irresponsible.
They probably can't reinforce a complete region. Were the paperwork done for the system where the fights happened or not? |
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ISD LackOfFaith
ISD Community Communications Liaisons
532
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Posted - 2013.06.24 22:21:00 -
[85] - Quote
Quote:22. Post constructively.
Negative feedback can be very useful to further improve EVE Online provided that it is presented in a civil and factual manner. All users are encouraged to honestly express their feelings regarding EVE Online and how it can be improved. Posts that are non-constructive, insulting or in breach of the rules will be deleted regardless of how valid the ideas behind them may be. Users are also reminded that posting with a lack of content also constitutes non-constructive posting.
Thread locked. ISD LackOfFaith Lieutenant Community Communication Liaisons (CCLs) Interstellar Services Department |
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