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BUYING PLEX FOR SKILL POINTS

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millsy4606 Combined Imperial Fleet JIHADASQUAD 3	Posted - 2013.06.23 10:31:00 - [1] - Quote Ive been pondering for a few months now why CCP has not introduced some sort of PLEX for SP trading. I hate waiting for LVL 5 skills that take 30+ days and wish their was a way I could cut that time in half buy spending some hard earned cash! Now some will already say well this is pay-2-win, not in my eyes! SP ok gives you some advantages in what you can fly and kit you can use, but its pilot skills and the fittings you use on your ships that is a deciding factor. Being that you can buy PLEX for ISK to buy faction/officer mods/ships anyways that is pay-2-win in my eyes! Hate fighting against 2003 players who have a marked advantage on what they can fly against me and use just because they have been playing the game 5 years longer than I have, why should I be punished for that and their should be some way to level out the playing field.
Jack Miton Aperture Harmonics K162 2038	Posted - 2013.06.23 10:47:00 - [2] - Quote oh **** off...
millsy4606 Combined Imperial Fleet JIHADASQUAD 3	Posted - 2013.06.23 10:48:00 - [3] - Quote Jack Miton wrote: oh **** off... clearly a hater, and why is that?
Elena Thiesant Sun Micro Systems 421	Posted - 2013.06.23 10:57:00 - [4] - Quote Oh look. this thread again. Let me paraphrase... "The older players have too much of an advantage from their higher skill points, so let's create a mechanism whereby you can buy SP for ISK, that should given those older players, who have a higher ISK generation ability from those higher skill points and who can afford to blow several billion ISK on PLEX without problem, the chance to get even further ahead of newer players and give themselves even more of an advantage." Sounds like an excellent plan, those older players will really appreciate the ability to get even more of an advantage than they already have.... p.s. There's already a PLEX for SP feature. It's called the Character Bazaar.
millsy4606 Combined Imperial Fleet JIHADASQUAD 3	Posted - 2013.06.23 11:02:00 - [5] - Quote so what's stopping older players amassing that ISK then buying a character of the bazaar?
Elena Thiesant Sun Micro Systems 421	Posted - 2013.06.23 11:03:00 - [6] - Quote Nothing, and many do.
millsy4606 Combined Imperial Fleet JIHADASQUAD 3	Posted - 2013.06.23 11:09:00 - [7] - Quote Elena Thiesant wrote: Nothing, and many do. so your last comment seems invalid then
Elena Thiesant Sun Micro Systems 421	Posted - 2013.06.23 11:15:00 - [8] - Quote Why? If you want to buy 'SP' for ISK, that place is the character bazaar. It already exists, you can go there and spend however much ISK you want to get a character that's as skilled as you like. You may, with enough ISK, even be able to buy one of those 2003 characters that have all that advantage. The fact that older players as well as newer players can use the character bazaar doesn't change that.
millsy4606 Combined Imperial Fleet JIHADASQUAD 3	Posted - 2013.06.23 11:23:00 - [9] - Quote And I would do that but, I happen to like Millsy4606 own identity his kill board ratings the character name etc, I don't really want to change all of that personal identity, for a character that although fits my SP needs for someone that's named ilike2spooge and is a female with big ****!
Derath Ellecon Washburne Holdings Situation: Normal 1464	Posted - 2013.06.23 12:49:00 - [10] - Quote millsy4606 wrote: And I would do that but, I happen to like Millsy4606 own identity his kill board ratings the character name etc, I don't really want to change all of that personal identity, for a character that although fits my SP needs for someone that's named ilike2spooge and is a female with big ****! That's your choice. But you could also take your hard earned cash and buy plex to then use to buy another toon with more SP if you choose to. But what you are asking for is essentially pay to win, which would suck.
millsy4606 Combined Imperial Fleet JIHADASQUAD 3	Posted - 2013.06.23 13:12:00 - [11] - Quote pay to win is already out there, buy plex to buy new character- pay to win. buy plex to buy faction mods/ships - pay to win i just want to buy plex to add some skill points so i don't have to wait 30 god damn days!
Derath Ellecon Washburne Holdings Situation: Normal 1464	Posted - 2013.06.23 13:17:00 - [12] - Quote millsy4606 wrote: pay to win is already out there, buy plex to buy new character- pay to win. buy plex to buy faction mods/ships - pay to win i just want to buy plex to add some skill points so i don't have to wait 30 god damn days! But it's not. Those other characters you may buy were trained the long hard way just like you do. There was no shortcut used to create those characters. Yes it seems like a minor difference but it is in fact a key difference. Buying faction mods/ships is not pay to win either. Keep trying though.
millsy4606 Combined Imperial Fleet JIHADASQUAD 3	Posted - 2013.06.23 13:29:00 - [13] - Quote Derath Ellecon wrote: millsy4606 wrote: pay to win is already out there, buy plex to buy new character- pay to win. buy plex to buy faction mods/ships - pay to win i just want to buy plex to add some skill points so i don't have to wait 30 god damn days! But it's not. Those other characters you may buy were trained the long hard way just like you do. There was no shortcut used to create those characters. Yes it seems like a minor difference but it is in fact a key difference. Buying faction mods/ships is not pay to win either. Keep trying though. but buying SP is pay to win?
Derath Ellecon Washburne Holdings Situation: Normal 1464	Posted - 2013.06.23 13:51:00 - [14] - Quote millsy4606 wrote: Derath Ellecon wrote: millsy4606 wrote: pay to win is already out there, buy plex to buy new character- pay to win. buy plex to buy faction mods/ships - pay to win i just want to buy plex to add some skill points so i don't have to wait 30 god damn days! But it's not. Those other characters you may buy were trained the long hard way just like you do. There was no shortcut used to create those characters. Yes it seems like a minor difference but it is in fact a key difference. Buying faction mods/ships is not pay to win either. Keep trying though. but buying SP is pay to win? The difference is if you are buying a toon with say 150 million SP, that toon got those 150mil SP the same way you get yours, through many years of training. Yes you may be able to shortcut the process by buying said toon, but it only works if someone who invested the time to train that toon is willing to sell. That is wholly different from having the ability to purchase SP immediately. If you can't see the difference, then there really isn't much else that can be said to make you understand how bad of an idea this is.
millsy4606 Combined Imperial Fleet JIHADASQUAD 3	Posted - 2013.06.23 13:57:00 - [15] - Quote no i can see the difference, but i don't see with why it would be a problem. if i could create a character and pay a few plexes to get him up to lets say a 6 month old toon. why would that be a problem. now i could buy said character from bazaar as mentioned but it wouldn't be my character you know what i mean.
Zhilia Mann Tide Way Out Productions 1321	Posted - 2013.06.23 14:04:00 - [16] - Quote millsy4606 wrote: so what's stopping older players amassing that ISK then buying a character of the bazaar? Older players have less incentive to do so because they already have more sp on an existing character and there's no way to artificially inflate that number. Except, you just proposed a way. Sp enters the game at a steady(ish) rate as a direct proportion to the number of active accounts. It only accumulates in critical mass on individual players over time. Devaluing that by encouraging additional player investment is indeed play to win and is antithetical to the core of Eve's advancement scheme.
millsy4606 Combined Imperial Fleet JIHADASQUAD 3	Posted - 2013.06.23 14:38:00 - [17] - Quote Zhilia Mann wrote: millsy4606 wrote: so what's stopping older players amassing that ISK then buying a character of the bazaar? Older players have less incentive to do so because they already have more sp on an existing character and there's no way to artificially inflate that number. Except, you just proposed a way. Sp enters the game at a steady(ish) rate as a direct proportion to the number of active accounts. It only accumulates in critical mass on individual players over time. Devaluing that by encouraging additional player investment is indeed play to win and is antithetical to the core of Eve's advancement scheme. so what your saying is I should just buy a 6th month old toon of the Bazaar because that's not by- passing eves advancement scheme at all?
Zor'katar Matari Recreation 91	Posted - 2013.06.23 14:44:00 - [18] - Quote millsy4606 wrote: so what your saying is I should just buy a 6th month old toon of the Bazaar because that's not by- passing eves advancement scheme at all? Correct. Someone put in the time to skill that character. You're paying him for the service. SPs were never generated out of thin air.
digitalwanderer DF0 incorporated 193	Posted - 2013.06.23 14:50:00 - [19] - Quote 2003 toon here with 208 million SP and already on the downhill slide in terms of training skills that i actually have an interest in maxing them out as it is, and now you're proposing a procedure that will make hitting that proverbial brick wall even faster still for everyone, including the early players of the game? I have enough to train till i hit 250 million SP, which puts that mark less than 2 years away for me, and given the slow pace that CCP introduces content for the old players of the game that increases the depth of the gameplay, even if at crazy skill requirements and huge cost isk wise like tech 3 battlecruisers or Tech 3 battleships or tech 2 dreads and carriers and super carriers here, or even T2 capital turrets and launchers( just naming examples here), rather than making the game wider in terms of activities and professions with relatively easy skills to train( we have enough of that).....i'd take on those challenges in a heartbeat, but thaat's just me. It's getting pretty boring when the game itself has gotten stale and repetitive for that portion of the player base, and there's nothing morre to strive for like there was in the early years, so many quit out of sheer boredom or just log in and out to switch whatever skills they're training ATM.
Zhilia Mann Tide Way Out Productions 1321	Posted - 2013.06.23 14:54:00 - [20] - Quote millsy4606 wrote: Zhilia Mann wrote: Older players have less incentive to do so because they already have more sp on an existing character and there's no way to artificially inflate that number. Except, you just proposed a way. Sp enters the game at a steady(ish) rate as a direct proportion to the number of active accounts. It only accumulates in critical mass on individual players over time. Devaluing that by encouraging additional player investment is indeed play to win and is antithetical to the core of Eve's advancement scheme. so what your saying is I should just buy a 6th month old toon of the Bazaar because that's not by- passing eves advancement scheme at all? I'm not sure how you got that out of what I said at all. In fact, I wouldn't recommend that new players buy through their first six months; that's a pretty major learning curve they'd be missing out on. Hell, you wouldn't even properly know what you were looking for in a character for sale. No, what I'm saying is that direct conversion of money into SP is bad because without the time component SP becomes devalued. I'm further saying that SP allocation patterns are such that the maximum value per SP can generally be extracted at a point somewhere between 5mil SP and 50mil SP and that giving anyone the ability to pay for direct allocation of that SP without elapsed time would more or less ruin the game by introducing a very direct pay to win scheme that bypasses character development time. Oh, and I'm further saying that under your scheme a player with 100mil SP would have the in-game financial resources to purchase SP at a very high rate -- a rate that would actually increase the SP gap between old and new players.
millsy4606 Combined Imperial Fleet JIHADASQUAD 3	Posted - 2013.06.23 17:04:00 - [21] - Quote from a 2003 player makes sense what your saying, to the 2013 player who wants to compete against that 2003 player doesn't seem fair. maybe a fine balance of once per month or limited to 1 plex, stop the people spamming maybe implemented
RavenPaine RaVeN Alliance 431	Posted - 2013.06.23 17:23:00 - [22] - Quote @ Millsy Your character is 5 years old. You have put in the time and effort for 5 YEARS to create him. Also the money. You have stated that you like your character just fine. Why would you want to add a mechanic that will devalue your own character? Because that's what it would do. Newbs with a decent job (or allowance) would be able to out skill you in a matter of seconds. I am surprised that a 5 year old character with pvp experience has this attitude tbh. I know that you already know, SP does not = instant win. I know that you have been aware of level V skills for 5 years. I know that you should have a great character sheet already.
millsy4606 Combined Imperial Fleet JIHADASQUAD 3	Posted - 2013.06.23 18:21:00 - [23] - Quote RavenPaine wrote: @ Millsy Your character is 5 years old. You have put in the time and effort for 5 YEARS to create him. Also the money. You have stated that you like your character just fine. Why would you want to add a mechanic that will devalue your own character? Because that's what it would do. Newbs with a decent job (or allowance) would be able to out skill you in a matter of seconds. I am surprised that a 5 year old character with pvp experience has this attitude tbh. I know that you already know, SP does not = instant win. I know that you have been aware of level V skills for 5 years. I know that you should have a great character sheet already. ive had a number of friends who have liked the game now and have left because of this issue, and id like to have them back. ive also started training an alt of a 3rd account who I want to have in an arazu, looking at skill sheet from scratch gonna take me 3 months maybe bit more and TBH I really cant be bothered to wait that long. I can just buy an alt of the bazzar yea fine ok, but like my previous posts I want it to be my guy with my name, not some ******** name like my JF character I brought called hippydude or my mining alts like approach gate!
Zhilia Mann Tide Way Out Productions 1323	Posted - 2013.06.23 19:27:00 - [24] - Quote On new player retention: I get that. It's a legitimate concern. This isn't the way to solve it. On training a recon alt: seriously? You can't wait three months? I've had a damn alt cooking for six months already and she won't be done for another 18. And yes, that's also my third account. Patience. Three months is nothing.
IIshira School of Applied Knowledge Caldari State 119	Posted - 2013.06.23 19:57:00 - [25] - Quote This is just another troll post. CCP will never do this unless they realize the game is dying and they want to get some fast cash right before it does.
millsy4606 Combined Imperial Fleet JIHADASQUAD 3	Posted - 2013.06.23 20:22:00 - [26] - Quote IIshira wrote: This is just another troll post. CCP will never do this unless they realize the game is dying and they want to get some fast cash right before it does. which may be sooner than you think
Velarra 246	Posted - 2013.06.23 21:29:00 - [27] - Quote I'm reminded of going to a shop and picking up a single player, open world game (that is played purely offline). say an early version of Elder scrolls, or Frontier or something similar. The game is played for a while but it takes a long time to get anywhere. Perhaps there are some entertaining elements but they're far and fleeting. So i dial up my ISP or check out the files section of my local BBS. When the modem squelch has finished and Mosaic or my usenet client have been pulled up i start looking for "Trainers". I may even go looking for a resident memory editor. The download takes 20 minutes. Anyway. I install the trainer or fiddle around with the memory editor and before you know it i'm able to do anything i want in the game. Instead of playing for 40..50.. 60+ hours i can cut that down by an easy factor of 10. Hacks are awesome \o/ ... Except there's a minor problem. It gets boring, it's all over too quickly, everything starts to feel meaningless and eventually empty. You end up killing the entertainment value of your game. If you could buy vast sums of SP overnight, to do exactly what you want to with, you'd get the same result.
Derath Ellecon Washburne Holdings Situation: Normal 1465	Posted - 2013.06.23 21:42:00 - [28] - Quote millsy4606 wrote: IIshira wrote: This is just another troll post. CCP will never do this unless they realize the game is dying and they want to get some fast cash right before it does. which may be sooner than you think Yea right. Eve subs have had healthy growth for pretty much all of its life.
digitalwanderer DF0 incorporated 193	Posted - 2013.06.23 22:02:00 - [29] - Quote millsy4606 wrote: from a 2003 player makes sense what your saying, to the 2013 player who wants to compete against that 2003 player doesn't seem fair. maybe a fine balance of once per month or limited to 1 plex, stop the people spamming maybe implemented You do realise that the 2003 player may be in a titan or super carrier and that you and all your alts wouldn't be effective in taking it down.....The drawback is that the 2003 player is stuck Inside that 30 to 100 billion ship for the rest of his life since it can't dock and allow the same player to fly other ships for some variety of the eve experience. It forced those to get another account for the last several years, which i'm sure CCP is pleased with the extra revenue that generates, but not pleasing for those reaching the end game in terms of piloting ships, and eve is above all else a ship based game.
Zor'katar Matari Recreation 92	Posted - 2013.06.24 03:44:00 - [30] - Quote millsy4606 wrote: ive had a number of friends who have liked the game now and have left because of this issue, I've heard this claim a lot lately. The "skill wall" is a convenient excuse, but I'd wager if they'd have been shown some of the things they could do just fine with low SP, they might have been more inclined to stick around. It's a perception problem more than anything else... someone gets told they need to play for over a year before they can do anything, and of course it would put them off. Problem is, that's not actually true except for a few "end game" things like capitals.

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