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Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 2 post(s) |

MachZERO
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Posted - 2005.11.26 09:54:00 -
[1]
Someone please give me a REAL example of how the selling of time cards for isk has impacted your personal gameplay in eve. And I mean REAL... not some made up hypothetical bull$hit that involves e-bay and a make believe far far away reality but something that has happened to you personally in eve due to time card sells...
When a time card was sold did your ship blow up?? Did your drones turn on you?
I'm waiting....
Nothing...
Except maybe some poor guy got to play eve for a few more months while he's between jobs...
And that guy/gal that works 6 days a week can sell a time card to the guy above and enjoy gate camping in a kitted BS instead of a BC for that one day that they can play eve for more than 1 hour...
Anyone that signs this is living in a vacuum...
time cards = real income for ccp...
Which = more "yardware" and content for us...
There are ppl that play eve but have full time jobs so they only get to play eve on the weekends...
There are ppl that play eve 24/7 and either don't have jobs or are going to school so money is tight...
Naturally, the ppl that play eve 24/7 have more isk than those with jobs...
And naturally the ppl with busy full-time jobs have more RL money than the 24/7's do...
This is a way to "even" it out...
There is basically a swap of time (isk) for RL money (time-card) in a way that both parties are happy with the outcome...
And because more players = more player created content in the form of wars and other player interaction we all win in the end...
But most of you can't see past your own noses...
Definately NOT signed
And before you economic geniuses hit me with the "But inflation is gonna be crazzy!! OMG!!"
The price of all the minerals have gone down steadily since the Cold War "spike". (3+ isk per trit anyone?? remember that? it's back to below 2 now.. and zyd is ungodly cheap as well.)
Everything in Eve except for faction gear and some of the T2 ships/modules is pegged to the value of the minerals that make them...
So where is this imaginary inflation?
Here's reality.. and you won't like it...
Time card selling hurts no one except the ignorant... --------------------------------------------- "Rang Rang" --------------------------------------------- |

MachZERO
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Posted - 2005.11.26 12:56:00 -
[2]
Originally by: ChainyMcSmoke
I mean how many people do you think are just going to sit idly by and watch others make billions of isk off this and not say to themselves "Hey, I want in on this as well" and before you know it an otherwise well intentioned loophole from the devs becomes the ONLY way to actually play the game.
And this is where supply and demand will kick in. When alot of people start selling the cards they will eventually dry up the demand for such cards. Which means fewer people will be buying time cards with isk because they now have a years worth of time cards. And now that fewer people are buying and more people are selling the price in isk for these cards will plummet. Why? It's simple. No one is buying and everyone is selling. Eventually the two will level out just like prices for products in real life. This is simple economics. Supply.. and Demand...
Originally by: ChainyMcSmoke Another question is it seems that the original good intentions of the devs to bring the game to people whom might not otherwise be able to afford membership is going to in the end screw them over the most. I mean you will have the ability to play now but when everything costs 12,000% more because of inflation(and oh it will happen) why would you want to...nuff said.
wts 1 unit of bantam ....12billion isk or best offer
... the pure at heart and hard working players want to ban timecards to keep this game and everything about it sincere.
Where do you all keep getting these crystal balls that see so deep into the future that you are dead certain that time card sales will lead to inflation? Where's your proof for these claims? Are they even based on any tangible evidence within Eve? It's just basically pure speculation and nothing more.
And there seems to be this mass histeria that some omnipotent presense is gonna own all the isk in eve and corner every market and all of eve will have to bow before his godliness. What drugs are you paranoid ass people taking? Do you actually think that CCP is going to stand by and let a single person/character dictate to the server? For that matter do you think that the major Corporations and alliances will stand for it? The paranioa of the few is creating histeria of the masses.
It amazes me also how alot of the posts in this thread just say "signed" and nothing more. As if a bunch of sheep to the slaughter they blindly agree to the original posters plea without a moment of thought.
As for the guy that made 4 billion isk in a single day selling these cards (if he actually exists), hell, I aplaude you for using your brain and finding an easier way to becoming a multi-billionaire in eve. You my friend are a true capitalist and will fit nicely into Eve's cut-throat economy and culture. --------------------------------------------- "Rang Rang" --------------------------------------------- |

MachZERO
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Posted - 2005.11.26 14:07:00 -
[3]
Originally by: Dark Shikari
Originally by: Kcel Chim
Originally by: Dark Shikari But we do. Competition is how EVE works. When people come onto the market buying things with huge amounts of money that they just pulled out of their ass, it hurts everyone else.
That you are bothered shows how hard you struggle to gather money. As for the "huge amounts of money", that money existed already and for you it makes no difference if the guy who buys the gc or the one who sells it reinvests it into the market. The isk process is closed which means that the gc seller is not printing new isk but only trading an item (which will not influence the game bar activating an account out of game) for ingame currency which already exists.
What they do is gather ISK from everyone else, putting it all in one wallet.
I will link you to a post of mine a while back that explains a bit how this can cause problems.
Damn Dark... Pretty soon you are going to run out of people to quote and have to start quoteing yourself.
I've personally washed my hands of this little issue cause I know now that CCP is aware of it and will either give it a thumbs up.. or thumbs down.. But don't think for a second that the financial department of CCP won't get a word in edge wise. I bet if they comb over the past few months data that time card sales will have contributed a nice sum towards keeping the servers running and RMR on schedule.
Keep that in mind. Good luck with your Crusade.
They often do more harm than good...
--------------------------------------------- "Rang Rang" --------------------------------------------- |

MachZERO
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Posted - 2005.11.26 14:40:00 -
[4]
not the SoE example.. lol
EQ2 was and is at best a mediocre game that was thrown together to try and ride the EQ wave of sucess. It failed because it now has compitition where as before EQ had UO to compete with. It also was released to some very "blah" reviews from actual gamers on the net and word of mouth did alot to destroy that game. I'll agree that the selling of in game items for RL money was a contributor to this but it was by NO means the ONLY reason why that game ultimately failed when compared to EQ's sucess.
Where do you get the 300 mil X 70k subscribers from?? All 3 of my accounts are paid up in 6 month intervals via VISA so you can subtract me, my 3 accounts and the thousands of other users that prepay their accounts up to a year from those exagerated numbers.
This whole issue is about to get the nerf bat from hell...
 --------------------------------------------- "Rang Rang" --------------------------------------------- |

MachZERO
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Posted - 2005.11.26 15:04:00 -
[5]
Originally by: Dark Shikari Edited by: Dark Shikari on 26/11/2005 14:43:10
Originally by: Rod Blaine Not realistic, as explained by CCP.
I never saw this "explanation." I don't see why it isn't realistic. In a sting operation, you automatically get every single person who has ever transacted with the character.
If not a sting operation, just search for large numbers of round-sized donations.
You gonna divvy up the thousands of dollars to pull this "easy" sting operation off?
I'm sure CCP could use the extra cash.
And what do you do when that module you got off escrow can be traced back to an e-bayer? What then? Or the BS you purchased was built by someone that happened to e-bay 30k megacyte cause he has no access to 0.0 to mine it himself?
Then these rules would also aply to you. But then I'm guessing that none of this should apply to you. Right?
Only those evil doing time card sellers.
You really don't need an explanation when it is truly common sense. Time cards make more money for CCP than those of us that prepay for 6 months to a year using our VISA's or the PayByCash option. We get huge discounts for paying up 6 months instead of paying monthly. Where do you think that diference is made up? Time Cards and monthly payments.
Search for round sized donations.. LOL My old corp would be screwed then. We always got round sized donations for our half of freighter builds in the range of 1 to 2 billion isk. And I'm sure many others would be screwed as well. Everyone starts sending 101 million isk. Then what? We start searching for all transactions over 100 million? People send it in multiple 90 million isk lots. As you can see this will never end. --------------------------------------------- "Rang Rang" --------------------------------------------- |

MachZERO
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Posted - 2005.11.26 15:26:00 -
[6]
Time for possible solutions:
I'll start off... ------------------- CCP SUSPENDS all GTC sales starting either Dec 1st or Jan 1st to allow all current auctions to end.
CCP could then setup a website to monitor and track all GTC sales to prevent abuse of this service by putting restrictions on how many cards are sold to and from each account on a per month or weekly basis. -------------------
They would also have to ban trial accounts from the site but hey... it's a start.. right?
Regulation is probably the only true answer to this and even IT isn't pretty.
--------------------------------------------- "Rang Rang" --------------------------------------------- |

MachZERO
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Posted - 2005.11.26 16:06:00 -
[7]
Quote: I was delimiting the maximum (70k suscribers+300mil) and the minimum (no additional ISK 'created' for this GTC-ing). We are obviously somewhere in between. This is basic math. The question is where. Thanks for "contributing" by stating that we will never have to calculate with 70k estimated accounts, rather with 69994 (adding mine too) estimated accounts. This has really brought us nearer to the truth
Quote: For those that didn't get it: I'm trying to say that there most probably _will_ be some kind of inflation since most "players who can finally join the game because of ISK-payed-GTCs instead of real money" will _have_ to make 300m ISK somehow, and I have a feeling that a big amount of it will be made by agent missions/mining which "creates" ISK as it's not gained through trade with other players. On the other hand I'm a player who pays real money and for weeks I am nowhere near 50m ISK "coming out of the NPC part of the game", as I don't have to waste 300m. So, who is more prone to creating more "new" ISK? ISK-GTC-based player or suscription/paypal/whatever RL money player? Will they also destroy more ingame ISK? The rich guys who traded the GTC with them will(by blowing up ships where you lose more value than you get from insurance?), but they will already have accelerated the inflation process since their bids raised the puts but the destruction of the ship didn't lower it, therefore making more people jump on the bandwagon (also known as vicious circle) and trying to make more money for those expensive items
Ahhh.. ok.. I see what you are getting at now. Just wasn't as clear in your first post.
And you are right. As we've seen something similar to this when EXODUS came out with the lvl 4 agents. More isk in eve meant insanely priced items. But that was also due to the crazy demand for ravens (to run those missions), T2 modules, faction gear (namely seige launchers), Implants and the introduction of many new toys. This also had a "spill-over" effect into everything else. And it wasn't until way after COLD WAR that we saw any real signs of stability.
So in the end you bring up an excellent point. It's a bit to the extreme in my opinion and I feel that Eve, being the size that it is and the general remoteness of the regions, will absorb any negative inflationary effects of GTC saleing.
(But before anyone points the smoking gun at EXODUS and says, "You wanna go back to that? That's exactly how it will be!", The EXODUS inflation was more complex than just more isk being dumped into the eve economy. The demand for battleships and modules skyrocketed due to the insane initial loss of ships to lvl 4 missions. Barges were new and no one could "ultra-mine" yet to keep up with the manufacturing demand. Manufacturers couldn't keep up with ship losses. It was a nasty repeating cycle for a while.) --------------------------------------------- "Rang Rang" --------------------------------------------- |
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