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T2 Ammo on sisi

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Ysolde Xen	Posted - 2005.11.27 11:01:00 - [31] Originally by: Testy Mctest Yes, Minmatar have lost their explosive damage and multi damage type advantages. But we also get a little more of a boost from this ammo as it stands now than everyone else does, being as our highest damage type ammo was previously lower than everyone elses (EMP had 44 base damage, antimatter and multifreqency have 48). We are also getting great variation in our Ammo here, namely blatant anti-shield ammo in Shock and Storm. Shock is longer range than our usual EMP, too. And it does some explosive damage. I'll wait to see how these pan out before I get the Minmatar whine brigade on the move. They are on test server, afterall. EMP ammo already does Em and a little Exp... It's thermal that it lacked. Em and Therm are the ultimate shield-eaters. But I'm not really sure why the limitations of lasers and hybrids have been removed (as far as damage types go) leaving the projectile advantage significantly reduced. Along with combat now taking longer due to improved tanking etc, and the fact that minmatar ships are being slowed down and have never been good tankers in the first place (there's very little in the way of capacitor tweaking in Mk2 so tanking is still limited) - well I'm finding it hard to see where our ships can compete...
Testy Mctest	Posted - 2005.11.27 11:37:00 - [32] Originally by: Ysolde Xen But I'm not really sure why the limitations of lasers and hybrids have been removed (as far as damage types go) leaving the projectile advantage significantly reduced. Along with combat now taking longer due to improved tanking etc, and the fact that minmatar ships are being slowed down and have never been good tankers in the first place (there's very little in the way of capacitor tweaking in Mk2 so tanking is still limited) - well I'm finding it hard to see where our ships can compete... You're evidently not understanding the bigger picture. Whilst they have been given another damage type each, we have been given two very focused ammo types; anti shield (with some exp, which was what I was saying before), and anti armour. We've gained as much as Amarr/Gallente have here. Also, look at the Amarrian ammo; their similar classes of T2 ammo are in some cases worse than the equivalent Min/Gal ones. What I'd like to know, though, is if the misc bonuses on these ammo types stack. If they do, then Quake ammo is particularly awesome....+30% cap recharge, -90% speed. Tempest in siege mode. I'd also like to make the point that I hope the Devs arent using T2 ammo to balance the disparity between the weapon classes at the moment. The right tweaks could balance T2 weapons, but that's not fair on people who dont have T2 guns yet. Balance needs to be from the ground up, not just at the top. I assume these ammo types will translate down to M and S too, since they do have the L designator. Would be nice to see a Claw with Hail S :P
Ysolde Xen	Posted - 2005.11.27 13:34:00 - [33] Sitting on SiSi now looking at the T2 proj ammos. For the artillery we have: Mega-armour damage, ship-gimping (Quake) Moderate shield damage, moderate stats (Shock) Moderate armour damage, very long range (Tremor) Sooo... without anything like as long a range as the Tremor for shield damage (and bearing in mind swapping ammo types in proj takes 10 seconds so isn't often viable except in prolonged battle for a Shock-swap-Quake tactic), I can't see much use for it. I also wonder why they've chosen to split up the ammos between the gun subtypes. Removes some of the choice options. For autocannons we have: Shield damage for next to no ship changes (Storm) All-out Exp armour damage, short range (Hail) Middle ground armour damage, good range (Barrage) Again a Hail-swap-Storm combo looks good on paper with Barrage being a bit of a puzzle because it out-ranges the Hail and won't do much vs shields. Personally I'd rather fill some ACs with Quake and arties with Storm but the choice limitations are a shame.
Keta Min	Posted - 2005.11.27 14:26:00 - [34] Originally by: Testy Mctest Originally by: Ysolde Xen But I'm not really sure why the limitations of lasers and hybrids have been removed (as far as damage types go) leaving the projectile advantage significantly reduced. Along with combat now taking longer due to improved tanking etc, and the fact that minmatar ships are being slowed down and have never been good tankers in the first place (there's very little in the way of capacitor tweaking in Mk2 so tanking is still limited) - well I'm finding it hard to see where our ships can compete... You're evidently not understanding the bigger picture. Whilst they have been given another damage type each, we have been given two very focused ammo types; anti shield (with some exp, which was what I was saying before), and anti armour. We've gained as much as Amarr/Gallente have here. Also, look at the Amarrian ammo; their similar classes of T2 ammo are in some cases worse than the equivalent Min/Gal ones. What I'd like to know, though, is if the misc bonuses on these ammo types stack. If they do, then Quake ammo is particularly awesome....+30% cap recharge, -90% speed. Tempest in siege mode. I'd also like to make the point that I hope the Devs arent using T2 ammo to balance the disparity between the weapon classes at the moment. The right tweaks could balance T2 weapons, but that's not fair on people who dont have T2 guns yet. Balance needs to be from the ground up, not just at the top. I assume these ammo types will translate down to M and S too, since they do have the L designator. Would be nice to see a Claw with Hail S :P sure hope the tracking penalty is per turret then.
Tjakka	Posted - 2005.11.27 14:50:00 - [35] So if i get it right a gankeddon can stip the shields with Conflagation then insta reload to Blaze and pound the **** outta his armor? rofl must be a joke and i dont worry about exp dam on hybrids cos you pound the armor tanks anyway the emp ammo only helps killing those ravens now
Diana Merris	Posted - 2005.11.27 15:35:00 - [36] I think people are mistaking the cap recharge percent. This is almost certainly cap recharge time which means it takes longer to recharge; that makes it a penalty.
Destructor1792	Posted - 2005.11.27 18:23:00 - [37] Just a quicky as no-one seems to have brought this up yet... Do you require any additional skills to use T2 ammo? Abviously a T2 gun would help but are there any other requirements?? Could always log onto the test server and look, but got no HD space left & I'm a lazy git!! ROFL ______________________________________ something, something, something swiggly goes here apparently --and the computer says... "NO"--
LWMaverick	Posted - 2005.11.28 00:19:00 - [38] Originally by: Destructor1792 Edited by: Destructor1792 on 27/11/2005 18:29:03 Just a quicky as no-one seems to have brought this up yet... Do you require any additional skills to use T2 ammo? Abviously a T2 gun would help but are there any other requirements?? Could always log onto the test server and look, but got no HD space left & I'm a lazy git!! ROFL I'm thick.. just noticed no extra tab for skill requirements!!! Duh!! lol But any idea if CCP are thinking of making additional skills a must to be able to use them? MY EYES!!!! Dont think there will be any required skills for t2 ammo... but take in mind that t2 ammo ONLY works with t2 guns. /Mav With great power, comes great responsibility.
Ecnav	Posted - 2005.11.28 00:25:00 - [39] Explosive damage on lasers...... HOW THE HELL IS THAT POSSIBLE!!!
Deja Thoris	Posted - 2005.11.28 00:35:00 - [40] Originally by: LWMaverick Originally by: Destructor1792 Edited by: Destructor1792 on 27/11/2005 18:29:03 Just a quicky as no-one seems to have brought this up yet... Do you require any additional skills to use T2 ammo? Abviously a T2 gun would help but are there any other requirements?? Could always log onto the test server and look, but got no HD space left & I'm a lazy git!! ROFL I'm thick.. just noticed no extra tab for skill requirements!!! Duh!! lol But any idea if CCP are thinking of making additional skills a must to be able to use them? MY EYES!!!! Dont think there will be any required skills for t2 ammo... but take in mind that t2 ammo ONLY works with t2 guns. /Mav Lol, a whole post in bold is "tech2 forum ammo" Destroys eyes in one volley
Woopie	Posted - 2005.11.28 00:52:00 - [41] Originally by: Ecnav Explosive damage on lasers...... HOW THE HELL IS THAT POSSIBLE!!! I believe an amarrian scientist accidentally stumbled up on this tech when studding unexplained and troublesome eggsplosion effect...
Archonon	Posted - 2005.11.28 03:58:00 - [42] wtf !!!! where are my missiles II ???? _______________________ Lokan > fire Lokan > what's up with section 13? Lokan > they flaming us on the forums
Arti K	Posted - 2005.11.28 05:50:00 - [43] So like... They're making a tanking boost in the patch, and then an ammo boost to completely nullify their tanking boost and make amarr another 2 steps ahead of everyone else again? Did I catch the gist of it?
LWMaverick	Posted - 2005.11.28 07:21:00 - [44] Originally by: Arti K So like... They're making a tanking boost in the patch, and then an ammo boost to completely nullify their tanking boost and make amarr another 2 steps ahead of everyone else again? Did I catch the gist of it? huh? Look at facts again, its not only in favor of laser users... Imagine a tempest with Quake ammo, or the ridicouless long range ammo with decent damage for hybrid users and so on... Imo its just fine. And no its not because im just amarr user.. im a user of everything else than minmatar ships and weapons. /Mav With great power, comes great responsibility.
Ithildin	Posted - 2005.11.28 07:33:00 - [45] I wonder why they've made these viewable on test server... They did these ammo concepts about 3 or 4 weeks prior to Castor release and have since more or less scrapped the idea (as far as the Gallente and Amarrian damage types are concerned at least). According to themselves, though I cannot be arsed to dig through 40-60 pages of forum topics. So. When are these forums going live in game?
Alkad Mzu	Posted - 2005.11.28 08:55:00 - [46] Oh now I get it, ranting is typed in Bold while sense is made in Italics ;) Thank you for pointing this out Ithildin, hopefully we can get a dev to elaborate a little on the topic, yes? Will sing for funny sig
Spurgo	Posted - 2005.11.28 09:03:00 - [47] Mmmm do i miss something? On the server test i cannot find and tech2 ammos, r those ammo already implemented on test server? tnx
Valpo'rae	Posted - 2005.11.28 10:04:00 - [48] Edited by: Valpo''rae on 28/11/2005 10:11:12 I'm sorry, but lasers get explosive dmg but hybrids (which actually fire a magnetically accelerated solid projectile btw) don't? Yeah, sure, that makes perfect sense... Can I get some of what the devs are smoking? This is just about the most ludicrous thing I've ever seen in 2 years of EVE... I know they (I think they're called developers, or something) are 'logically' challenged, but FFS!!! Do they take a short bus to work in Iceland? The sh!t will definately hit the fan if t2 ammo makes it live in its current state; at least for hybrid users. I'd say we're getting pretty well shafted in that we are now the only ones UNABLE to deal decent amounts of explosive. Oh wait, I'm sure 5 berserkers will make up for that... NOT! --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
LWMaverick	Posted - 2005.11.28 10:37:00 - [49] OMFG YES... whine some more This thread still has a lot to look up to, especially if you like at the amount of whine in 90% of all other threads!! Gimme a W ... H ... I ... N ... E /Mav And yes, im crazy.. dont ask With great power, comes great responsibility.
Jaketh Ivanes	Posted - 2005.11.28 11:09:00 - [50] Hmm.. can someone tell me why t2 projectiles only fint in hybrid weapons (according to the description)
Rex Martell	Posted - 2005.11.28 11:23:00 - [51] Originally by: Ecnav Explosive damage on lasers...... HOW THE HELL IS THAT POSSIBLE!!! Lightning is one example. Massive ammount of pure electric energy can cause normally inert materials to explode. clutching straws here "The object of war is not to die for your corp, but to make the other b@##@#d die for his"
Cerberal	Posted - 2005.11.28 11:33:00 - [52] Mmm, shock ammo with every possible damage i could want. (I think i must hoard BPO's for these ammo types and sell them for rediculously overpriced amounts)
LWMaverick	Posted - 2005.11.28 11:35:00 - [53] Originally by: Ecnav Explosive damage on lasers...... HOW THE HELL IS THAT POSSIBLE!!! Quote from the crystal that does EXPLOSIVE DAMAGE!!111: This frequency modulation crystal uses a modified microwave crystal coupled with a relatively low energy electron beam generator to alter the electric charge of molecules causing them to violently break apart. /Mav With great power, comes great responsibility.
Sky Hunter	Posted - 2005.11.28 11:43:00 - [54] lol! Amarr and explosive dmg....looks like we will have a game with 'all in one', looks like in few more patches we wont even care what race to train as everything will be 100% same Also what are those bonuses to cap/tracking? Where in the universe did you seen a 'bullet' that gives your rifle more rate of fire?? I mean thats really useless....better yet give more skills and not slap bonuses onto ammo.... -=-
LWMaverick	Posted - 2005.11.28 11:52:00 - [55] Originally by: Sky Hunter lol! Amarr and explosive dmg....looks like we will have a game with 'all in one', looks like in few more patches we wont even care what race to train as everything will be 100% same Your joking right? There is usually penalities by using t2 ammo, and it can only be used in t2 guns. I think its cool, make ships even more versatile.. and btw, the crystals will proberbly cost ****loads of isk! With great power, comes great responsibility.
Sky Hunter	Posted - 2005.11.28 12:02:00 - [56] Edited by: Sky Hunter on 28/11/2005 12:02:21 Originally by: LWMaverick Originally by: Sky Hunter lol! Amarr and explosive dmg....looks like we will have a game with 'all in one', looks like in few more patches we wont even care what race to train as everything will be 100% same Your joking right? There is usually penalities by using t2 ammo, and it can only be used in t2 guns. I think its cool, make ships even more versatile.. and btw, the crystals will proberbly cost **loads of isk! Point is that now 'racial damage' system is screwed. Look yourself, heres 'race damage' table: Amarr( Attacking with EM+Thermal ) >> Minmatar( Countering ) Minmatar( Attacking with Kinetic + Explosive ) >> Amarr( Countering ) Caldari( Attacking with Kinetic + Thermal ) >> Gallente ( Countering ) Gallente ( Attacking with Thermal + Kinetic ) >> Caldari ( Countering ) This is how it looks now in terms of T2 ships. Now what we will see if laser gets explosive dmg? Amarr( Attacking with EM+Thermal+Explosive) >> Minmatar ( Cant Counter** ). Now basicly why not add +10-20% Explosive to all Minmatar T2 ship resistances? Since now basicly all Amarr pilots will fly with explosive dmg...whats the point? Apoc vs Tempest both have explosive dmg and only amount of armor and quality of repper will decide wich tank will fall faster? Dont forget that Amarr got their +10% against explosive+kinetic even on T1 ships same as Minmatar got on EM+Thermal. So now basicly Apoc will have 60% with one hardener and Minmatar will have 50%. And we will see that laser will deal more explosive dmg on the ship that meant to be dealing explosive dmg! not fair imo. Another thing is that i dont like the current direction of 'yay all-arounders', remember that good amount of pilots especially pvp pilots specialize in something and therefore making ships even more same is a definatly bad step. -=-
LWMaverick	Posted - 2005.11.28 12:08:00 - [57] Sry.. but i still dont agree with you. With great power, comes great responsibility.
Simon Illian	Posted - 2005.11.28 12:13:00 - [58] asking for a whine ... it's not agains rules ??? t2 ammos is like T2 ship .... wait to see them on TQ. [Eve Tool for the mass]
Omatje	Posted - 2005.11.28 12:15:00 - [59] Hail hail! happy hobbit from the sunny south
Stro3der	Posted - 2005.11.28 14:53:00 - [60] Would have thought that seeing as blasters fire the ammo from a particle accelerator there would be a large amount of thermal with some EM and a bit of explosive (especially in antimatter ammo). Railguns would have huge kinetic damage with a bit of thermal damage for when the slug melts, but theres nothing to say that u cant fill a railgun slug with plutonium or something else to give explosive damage. Projectiles should also have a larger kinetic damage and thermal, but with different coatings/heads for explosive/EM/thermal/kinetic damage. Lasers obviously massive EM/Thermal with some explosive damage from molecules breaking apart etc. No kinetic at all as there is no kinetic force from light (physics students/teachers/etc. please dont lecture me about wave/particle duality or anything else to try and correct me, lets just keep it in the confines of the game) This is a rough rounding of the style of damage for each weapon class, but these TII ammo damages need to be balanced a bit better, as yes they are old stats. something to keep it in the style of weaponry for each race, so that there is no all rounder, but more of a paper/scissors/stone situation. I cant make a proper comment as to how tho because i cant count Combat: Your Large Spirits Bottle II strikes Sanshas Pointy Cruiser perfectly, opening a can of whoopass for wtfomghicburp*pwned damage !

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