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Olivin
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Posted - 2005.11.27 00:30:00 -
[1]
Macro mining only possible ( on the large scale) in the high security space for the obvious reasons and generally refer to use of bots and/or special scripts which allow to automate mining in the safe areas, i.e. no PVP or strong rats.
My solution to prevent use of such software is to integrated mining in high security space ( from 0.5 to 1.0) with mission.
1. Overview
Secure space is controlled by NPC corporations and it's only logical that all asteroid belts ( mining grounds) also controlled by NPC corporations. So, in order to mine in high security space you will need to obtain a license which allow you to mine specified quantity of ore ( mining quota). When you filled your quota you will need to get a new license.
Mining licenses will be issued by agents and will be free of charge, since we don't want to harm new players. Basically, mining license won't be much different from any standard mission and will be posted into your journal. License briefing will state the location ( solar system) where you allowed to mine, amount of ore you allowed to mine and expiration date.
To prevent macro mining, agent who issued you a license will ask you perform some random trivia missions, like transport something from A to B, or buy this and bring it there. To compensate of the lost mining time, mission rewards should be in form of most common ore of the area and in quantity directly proportional to the time required to complete the mission, plus 50% time bonus as usual.
If you will fail to accept the mission offer or will fail the mission itself, you license will be revoked and all ore you have mined under this license will be marked as contraband, which can't be sold and reprocessed in secure space and require great effort to move to low security.
2. Some thoughts
1. Mining license quota could be made dependable on the agent level and quality. Quantity of the trivia missions can be related to the total of the quota.
2. If you start mining without ( license, a popup message appears warning that you engaged in illegal activity and need to get a license first. Ignoring this, will bring customs officials from the nearest gate and possible destruction of the
ship or standings loss, unless you wrap back to the station.
3. Mining in empire deadspace and complex locations doesn't require any license.
4. When mining license quota is fulfilled a warning message should appear, saying that you need to get new license and all ore mined from now own will result in custom officials marked all your ore as contraband,
5. Preventing macro mining. Well, first of all, mining process wail be broken down to the sequences, because you will need to get a new license each time allowed quota is fulfilled. This won't stop advance bots, but most of primitive macros will became useless. Second of all, to program a bot to do random missions, even if they as simple as transporting something from A to B, will require completely different level of programming and I don't think it will be worth the effort.
Olivin
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Makhan
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Posted - 2005.11.27 00:35:00 -
[2]
Mineing is boring enough without doing a courier mission before it. Ive said it before and I'll say it again, there is no codeing solution for macro mineing.
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Santiac
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Posted - 2005.11.27 00:49:00 -
[3]
Off the bat it sounds like the start of a good idea, would make mining a bit less tedious in a way, but would also increase the work required to aquire mins, thus increasing cost.
What would you propose as for quota-levels?
- What standings would one need for a given level of quota?
- What amount should the quota be on? (hopefully a noteworthy amount for high-level quotas)
- Should higher level quota's allow for mining within a larger range (Constellation, region)?
Still contemplating it, so thats the only things i can see being a "problem", so to say, at the moment.
It would also increase the lure of low-sec space, sounds like a good plan after first thought. :)
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<insert clever/witty comment here>
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Olivin
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Posted - 2005.11.27 01:07:00 -
[4]
 Originally by: Santiac
Off the bat it sounds like the start of a good idea, would make mining a bit less tedious in a way, but would also increase the work required to aquire mins, thus increasing cost.
Well, that's why I proposed that mission rewards must compensate the time required to complete them in terms of ore. Say, hauling mission from A to B, takes 1 hour, so the reward ( most common ore of the area) should be equal to the amount of ore you can mine, taking on account quota level, assuming low level quota you mining in the frigate and high level quota you mining in barge.
Originally by: Santiac
What would you propose as for quota-levels?
I think quota level should be based on the ship class capabilities. Low quota level on the frigate mining capabilities, medium -- cruiser, high -- barge and bs.
Originally by: Santiac
What standings would one need for a given level of quota?
Similar to the standard missions. Low quota - lvl1 agents, standings towards 1.0, medium quota lvl2 agents, standings towards 2.0, high quota lvl3 agents, standing towards 4.0.
Originally by: Santiac
- Should higher level quota's allow for mining within a larger range (Constellation, region)?
Sure, why not. ;) Perhaps lvl4 agents can dish regional mining licenses?
Olivin
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Cmdr Sy
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Posted - 2005.11.27 02:33:00 -
[5]
Not sure if it will work, but I'll give you credit for coming up with something original.
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Aeaus
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Posted - 2005.11.27 03:31:00 -
[6]
I kind of like the sound of this; would really remove a lot of the macro miners or slow them down at the very least.
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Cmdr Sy
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Posted - 2005.11.27 03:33:00 -
[7]
Red tape, that's the answer. Nothing discourages a macro more than a deadspace acceleration gate informing him he has the wrong permit. 
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Alexia Sonique
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Posted - 2005.11.27 03:50:00 -
[8]
Perhaps a discussion on how to stop all the macro mining threads? Thatd sure make my gameplay more enjoyable.
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Dark Shikari
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Posted - 2005.11.27 03:51:00 -
[9]
Originally by: Alexia Sonique
Perhaps a discussion on how to stop all the macro mining threads? Thatd sure make my gameplay more enjoyable.
No thread is going to stop you from playing the game.
On the other hand, whining about macro mining threads is just plain stupid.
-
Proud member of the [23].
Don't get the reference in my sig? Click it.
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Cerberal
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Posted - 2005.11.27 03:57:00 -
[10]
And so, the days of ninja mining veldspar....
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Nyphur
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Posted - 2005.11.27 06:30:00 -
[11]
Originally by: Makhan
Mineing is boring enough without doing a courier mission before it. Ive said it before and I'll say it again, there is no codeing solution for macro mineing.
Funny because other games have had coding solutions to macromining that work :).
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Samuel Baxter
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Posted - 2005.11.27 06:30:00 -
[12]
Edited by: Samuel Baxter on 27/11/2005 06:32:53
Originally by: Alexia Sonique
Perhaps a discussion on how to stop all the macro mining threads? Thatd sure make my gameplay more enjoyable.
Until CCP takes a determined stand on the issue of "macro-miners," we will continue to see threads like this appearing. It is in part [but not entirely] due to their deliberate vagueness - here I refer to a definitive lack of official statements on the issue - that this controversy has increased in recent days.
Only once we have heard from the developers of EVE will we (the pilots) be able to have more serious discussions on the issues of macro-miners and ISK farmers/sellers, instead of these conspiracy-theory[ish] posts that have recently cropped up on the forums.
_________________________
- Well look at this: 'pears we got here in the nick a time. What does that make us?
- Big damned heroes sir.
- Ain't we just. |
Olivin
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Posted - 2005.11.27 07:49:00 -
[13]
Originally by: Samuel Baxter
Until CCP takes a determined stand on the issue of "macro-miners," we will continue to see threads like this appearing. It is in part [but not entirely] due to their deliberate vagueness - here I refer to a definitive lack of official statements on the issue - that this controversy has increased in recent days.
What official statement? Do you actually understand what is the macro mining? Let me clarify: macro mining is the method of controlling the ship and mining equipment using special software ( macro script or bot) from the player's computer. This method allow you to perform 24/7 mining in high sec space without even touching a keyboard. Many macros of various quality and complexity available on Internet. Use Google and see how many. ( I found over 30 different scripts). Since macro or bot uses Eve game client to perform required sequence of tasks, I don't believe that CCP can make any official statements regarding this issue.
Olivin
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Martin Gore
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Posted - 2005.11.27 10:29:00 -
[14]
I think it's a great idea and should be used for 0.7 - 1.0 systems.
But it's the Ice mining that the macro'ers use most... infinite supply, no need to jet can mine. 99% of all ice miners are macrominers, and with all the pos's there will allways be a need.
Make Ice in empire only sold by Npc's. It should only be able to be mined in 0.0
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sonofollo
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Posted - 2005.11.27 10:37:00 -
[15]
well the more lucrative ice products are minable only in 0.0.
Mineral prices have fallen making ships cheaper to produce in high sec and hence more PVP potential not such a bad thing
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sonofollo
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Posted - 2005.11.27 11:19:00 -
[16]
A SCALED DOWN 500 HIGH SEC FREE SERVER FOR ALL TRIAL ACCOUNTS
THIS WILL REMOVE ALL THE TRIAL ACCOUNTS TAHT ARE BEING USED TO MACRO MINE - AT LEAST THEN IF THEY ARE GOING TO GET UP TO NO GOOD ON TQ THEN THEY WILL BE AT LEATS PAYING THE MONTHLY ACCOUNT FEE - WHEN THE CHINA SERVER COMES OUT ALL CHINA ACCOUNTS WILL BE TAKEN OFF TQ - LET EM DO IT ON THE CHINA SERVER.
TRIAL ACCOUNTS ON THE FREE SERVER SEPERATE FROM TQ CANNOT BE TRANSFERRED OVER TO TQ - IF PLAYERS HAVE TRIED AND THEN WANT TO PLAY THEY PAY AND THEY START FROM SCRATCH AGAIN (U WOULD ONLY GET THOSE THAT LIKE THE GAME ANYWAY)
NO ITEMS CAN BE TRANSFERRED FROM THE NEW FREE SCALED DOWN TRIAL ACCOUNT SERVER ACROSS TO TQ SAME GOES FOR ISK - WILL SCALE DOWN THE ISK SELLING ON EBAY ETC.
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Aziza
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Posted - 2005.11.27 17:43:00 -
[17]
Very good idea. I like!
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Thank you |
Vanesa Garcia
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Posted - 2005.11.27 19:13:00 -
[18]
Originally by: Nyphur
Funny because other games have had coding solutions to macromining that work :).
Macrodemon asking what is two plus five is not coding solution 
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Olivin
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Posted - 2005.11.27 23:11:00 -
[19]
Macro mining is not a problem. Period. Mining must be automated because it is boring.
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Pandemic Thinking
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Posted - 2005.11.28 00:14:00 -
[20]
We have a very simple solution to Macro Mining...
WE KILL THEM...
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Ecnav
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Posted - 2005.11.28 00:38:00 -
[21]
you have to think about the newer players.........this will NOT work
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Jon Ogden
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Posted - 2005.11.28 01:04:00 -
[22]
Once and for all will people shut up with the endless macro mining threads? CCP has told you many different times to petition them. Whether CCP does anything or not is up to them. Instead of banning macro users,I would rather see people who constantly complain about it banned. You are the people who drive me crazy.
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Dtech
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Posted - 2005.11.28 01:42:00 -
[23]
Hmmmmm....how about HELL NO!!!!
This is why I hate threads about macro mining, the solutions they come up with usually screw over real miners more then the marco miners. Leave the mechanics of mining alone. With this solution I might as well just trade in my strip miners for 1400's and do missions all day long. I know EVE hate miners with a passion, but please stop trying to make mining more tedious then it already is.
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Pandemic Thinking
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Posted - 2005.11.28 01:51:00 -
[24]
Macro Miners do make for wonderful targets...
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Cerberal
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Posted - 2005.11.28 02:40:00 -
[25]
Edited by: Cerberal on 28/11/2005 02:41:46
Originally by: sonofollo
A SCALED DOWN 500 HIGH SEC FREE SERVER FOR ALL TRIAL ACCOUNTS
THIS WILL REMOVE ALL THE TRIAL ACCOUNTS TAHT ARE BEING USED TO MACRO MINE - AT LEAST THEN IF THEY ARE GOING TO GET UP TO NO GOOD ON TQ THEN THEY WILL BE AT LEATS PAYING THE MONTHLY ACCOUNT FEE - WHEN THE CHINA SERVER COMES OUT ALL CHINA ACCOUNTS WILL BE TAKEN OFF TQ - LET EM DO IT ON THE CHINA SERVER.
TRIAL ACCOUNTS ON THE FREE SERVER SEPERATE FROM TQ CANNOT BE TRANSFERRED OVER TO TQ - IF PLAYERS HAVE TRIED AND THEN WANT TO PLAY THEY PAY AND THEY START FROM SCRATCH AGAIN (U WOULD ONLY GET THOSE THAT LIKE THE GAME ANYWAY)
NO ITEMS CAN BE TRANSFERRED FROM THE NEW FREE SCALED DOWN TRIAL ACCOUNT SERVER ACROSS TO TQ SAME GOES FOR ISK - WILL SCALE DOWN THE ISK SELLING ON EBAY ETC.
You post a lot of idea's to a lot of suggestions. This suggestion catches my eye.
This idea has a lot of merit, and at first it would seemingly help us on TQ. But at the same time anyone playing on this trial server wouldnt really be getting the whole eve experience, leaving us with even more clueless newbies. That and feeling really good about your character within that 15 days and not wanting to part from them...well, it could discourage new potential customers.
On a side note: It would get rid of a LOT of alt spies that were NOT created on a paying account.
Some more thought and this one could be a "Kill two birds with one stone" Concept.
Edit: At the same time, i usually dont care about macrominers. Either way nothing would bother me.
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