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Chilli-Con Carnage
Under the Table Inc.
WHY so Seri0Us
0
   |
Posted - 2013.07.03 12:37:00 -
[31] - Quote
mynnna wrote:This is an awful idea, full stop, and there isn't an argument in the world that can change that.
Mind telling me why? and coming from a bunch of elitist griefers, I can understand you wouldn't want to improve the game for new players so your opinion matters very little to me. |
Mag's
the united
Negative Ten.
15064
|
Posted - 2013.07.03 12:39:00 -
[32] - Quote
Hell no. We do not need an SP grind mechanic in Eve. The lack of having to grind, one of the best things about Eve's SP system. There was an SP grind system in the game at one time, but it was abused. Just like your idea would be abused.
If you are really that focused on bypassing the learning how to play stage, then use the current time bypass, either grind or trade for lots of ISK and buy a high SP char.
Destination SkillQueue:-
It's like assuming the lions will ignore you in the savannah, if you're small, fat and look helpless. |
Zor'katar
Matari Recreation
107
|
Posted - 2013.07.03 12:39:00 -
[33] - Quote
The only sort of "I need more SP plox" idea I might consider supporting is one that gives people a one-time set amount of extra XP either at the start or after some criteria are met, and only if the same amount is given to everyone in the game who's already met the requirements. But the amount would have to be pretty modest, because we don't need to encourage new players to be taking bigger losses as they fly more ship than they know how to handle yet.
Providing SP for certain activities encourages grinding, and that's not a good thing. |
Zor'katar
Matari Recreation
107
|
Posted - 2013.07.03 12:41:00 -
[34] - Quote
Chilli-Con Carnage wrote:Well I was being figurative not literal but the point was it takes a f**king long time to be able to get anywhere in this game and I think there need to be a way to speed up the process.
You still need to define "anywhere". There's a ton of things to do in this game that require little to no SP. Open your mind a bit. I remember being a noob... there were a lot of barriers to get over, but SP was never one of them. |
Chilli-Con Carnage
Under the Table Inc.
WHY so Seri0Us
0
|
Posted - 2013.07.03 12:42:00 -
[35] - Quote
Mag's wrote:Hell no. We do not need an SP grind mechanic in Eve. The lack of having to grind, one of the best things about Eve's SP system. There was an SP grind system in the game at one time, but it was abused. Just like your idea would be abused.
If you are really that focused on bypassing the learning how to play stage, then use the current time bypass, either grind or trade for lots of ISK and buy a high SP char.
But you do grind, you grind for ISK, you grind for LP's. And I'm not talking about bypassing the game, I'm talking about giving player s a reason to PLAY the game and not just sit in a station and slowly watch there SP's tick over one at a time. |
Zor'katar
Matari Recreation
107
|
Posted - 2013.07.03 12:42:00 -
[36] - Quote
Chilli-Con Carnage wrote:Mind telling me why? and coming from a bunch of elitist griefers, I can understand you wouldn't want to improve the game for new players so your opinion matters very little to me.
The "why" can be found in any of the myriad threads in here and in Skill Discussions about this topic or any other form of alternative SP gain (especially "SP for Plex"). |
Vesan Terakol
Sad Face Enterprises
12
|
Posted - 2013.07.03 12:45:00 -
[37] - Quote
What if I tell you, that 2 noobs in tech 1 frigates, not more than a moth old, have a decent chance of breaking the shiny toy you trained all that time for? And if PvE is your domain, couple of weeks later, same noobs might even be running missions as good as you do with your pimped out marauder or pirate BS.
I might be slightly exaggerating in my examples, but ranks 5 of skills doesn't offer that much of a benefit over rank 4 and each rank takes exponentially more time to train. No, you don't need your skills maxed to be competitive - someone lied to you pretty badly. |
Chilli-Con Carnage
Under the Table Inc.
WHY so Seri0Us
0
|
Posted - 2013.07.03 12:47:00 -
[38] - Quote
Zor'katar wrote:Chilli-Con Carnage wrote:Well I was being figurative not literal but the point was it takes a f**king long time to be able to get anywhere in this game and I think there need to be a way to speed up the process. You still need to define "anywhere". There's a ton of things to do in this game that require little to no SP. Open your mind a bit. I remember being a noob... there were a lot of barriers to get over, but SP was never one of them.
'Anywhere' being nearly any corp in this game that does anything fun. Look at the recruitment channel and see just how many null-sec corp's require a 15 million SP requirement to get in. Certainly the good ones do. And now think of just how long it takes to get 15 million SP's in this game, yea a damn long time. And what can you do prior to getting those SP's? Mission running? Faction Warfare maybe. Not a whole hell of a lot else for the first year of playing the game. |
Anna Djan
Banana Corp
37
|
Posted - 2013.07.03 12:48:00 -
[39] - Quote
I think this is the worst idea I've seen in this section....
I smell a troll.
The one thing that keeps me playing and subbed is that I work for a living, can choose to log in once in a month to swap skill training around and I gain the same as anyone else.
Now as for gaining ISKies, pvping for tears, I miss out on this, but hayhoo:
Life > Grind in all instances. |
Purps
Anatidae Rising
0
|
Posted - 2013.07.03 12:50:00 -
[40] - Quote
Reason 1, skill for running missions implies that you are learning something from them, after you've launched your 500th Torpedo at a big red + you really aren't learning that much, in fact the only thing you'd possibly learn is that you don't fire Torpedoes at little +'s, but YOU are already learning that, your character probably already knows this.
Also is spending 10 minutes pressing a key every time your target goes pop more of a learning experience than spending 4 hours running around in a cloaked ship looking for targets that you most likely won't kill yourself, how would giving SP count toward that? |
Chilli-Con Carnage
Under the Table Inc.
WHY so Seri0Us
0
|
Posted - 2013.07.03 12:50:00 -
[41] - Quote
Anna Djan wrote:I think this is the worst idea I've seen in this section....
I smell a troll.
How am I trolling? All I have done is come up with a good idea to get new players into the game and attempted to defend my position. |
Balthazar Lestrane
Happy Endings.
The Retirement Club
8
|
Posted - 2013.07.03 12:51:00 -
[42] - Quote
Chilli-Con Carnage wrote:Zor'katar wrote:Chilli-Con Carnage wrote:I'm not defining the game by it's PvE content. I'm saying that there needs to be a way for new players to be able to catch up with the older players a lot quicker than there currently is. I think there needs to be a way to speed up the process and make sure you can get a good character that can actually do stuff in this game faster than the 18 months it currently takes. Perhaps you can start by telling us what it takes 18 months to do. I can't think of anything other than cap ships, which aren't intended for noobs anyway. Well I was being figurative not literal but the point was it takes a f**king long time to be able to get anywhere in this game and I think there need to be a way to speed up the process.
Buy implants, use neural remaps but FFS leave the Skillpoint progression system ALONE. Inject Patience 5 or Advanced Patience Techniques but the unanimous outcry that this idea is terribad warrants no further discussion.
Quote:
But you do grind, you grind for ISK, you grind for LP's. And I'm not talking about bypassing the game, I'm talking about giving player s a reason to PLAY the game and not just sit in a station and slowly watch there SP's tick over one at a time.
If you cannot find a reason to play, THEN GIVE ME ALL YOUR ISK AND STOP THIS NONSENSE.
It isn't the developers job to inspire you to play EVE, it's their job to provide the tools which makes playing EVE inspiring. Sheesh.
Edit: If you need further convincing that SP are meaningless with what you can do in EVE, refer to this thread:
https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=254798&find=unread |
Mag's
the united
Negative Ten.
15064
|
Posted - 2013.07.03 12:54:00 -
[43] - Quote
Chilli-Con Carnage wrote:Mag's wrote:Hell no. We do not need an SP grind mechanic in Eve. The lack of having to grind, one of the best things about Eve's SP system. There was an SP grind system in the game at one time, but it was abused. Just like your idea would be abused.
If you are really that focused on bypassing the learning how to play stage, then use the current time bypass, either grind or trade for lots of ISK and buy a high SP char. But you do grind, you grind for ISK, you grind for LP's. And I'm not talking about bypassing the game, I'm talking about giving player s a reason to PLAY the game and not just sit in a station and slowly watch there SP's tick over one at a time. YOU may grind for those things, I don't. This game's beauty is that you can do it without the grind.
This idea was tried already and it failed. There is no reason for it. It doesn't solve any problem, yet introduces the problem of people merely playing to engage in meaningless repetition and time-sinking.
Destination SkillQueue:-
It's like assuming the lions will ignore you in the savannah, if you're small, fat and look helpless. |
Anna Djan
Banana Corp
37
|
Posted - 2013.07.03 12:56:00 -
[44] - Quote
Chilli-Con Carnage wrote:Anna Djan wrote:I think this is the worst idea I've seen in this section....
I smell a troll. How am I trolling? All I have done is come up with a good idea to get new players into the game and attempted to defend my position.
You believe it's a good idea, I don't. In fact I think it's the worst idea I've seen on these forums recently.
In no way will I believe or condone that because I work, have commitments and have a life outside a game should I be at a disadvantage in progression that anyone else.
When I log on I want to choose what I do, not be dictated that I have to grind f**king MISSIONS of all things, the worst thing in the game to do. |
Zor'katar
Matari Recreation
107
|
Posted - 2013.07.03 12:57:00 -
[45] - Quote
Chilli-Con Carnage wrote:'Anywhere' being nearly any corp in this game that does anything fun. Look at the recruitment channel and see just how many null-sec corp's require a 15 million SP requirement to get in. Certainly the good ones do. And now think of just how long it takes to get 15 million SP's in this game, yea a damn long time.
Corporations set minimum SP requirements because they want their members to have a certain level of game experience, and SP is a convenient way to approximate that. There's nothing magical about the particular number they give. If a corp requires 15 million SP to join, and CCP starts giving out 5 million free SP to new players, then the corporation will probably raise the minimum to 20 million. If you ask them what actual skills they require, you'll find that the SP count of that is significantly less.
Chilli-Con Carnage wrote:And what can you do prior to getting those SP's? Mission running? Faction Warfare maybe. Not a whole hell of a lot else for the first year of playing the game.
Often corps will have (or be affiliated with) a separate noob training corp. Talk to their recruiters and ask where they would recommend you start. |
Chilli-Con Carnage
Under the Table Inc.
WHY so Seri0Us
0
|
Posted - 2013.07.03 12:57:00 -
[46] - Quote
Balthazar Lestrane wrote:Chilli-Con Carnage wrote:Zor'katar wrote:Chilli-Con Carnage wrote:I'm not defining the game by it's PvE content. I'm saying that there needs to be a way for new players to be able to catch up with the older players a lot quicker than there currently is. I think there needs to be a way to speed up the process and make sure you can get a good character that can actually do stuff in this game faster than the 18 months it currently takes. Perhaps you can start by telling us what it takes 18 months to do. I can't think of anything other than cap ships, which aren't intended for noobs anyway. Well I was being figurative not literal but the point was it takes a f**king long time to be able to get anywhere in this game and I think there need to be a way to speed up the process. Buy implants, use neural remaps but FFS leave the Skillpoint progression system ALONE. Inject Patience 5 or Advanced Patience Techniques but the unanimous outcry that this idea is terribad warrants no further discussion. Quote:
But you do grind, you grind for ISK, you grind for LP's. And I'm not talking about bypassing the game, I'm talking about giving player s a reason to PLAY the game and not just sit in a station and slowly watch there SP's tick over one at a time.
If you cannot find a reason a play, THEN GIVE ME ALL YOUR ISK AND STOP THIS NON-SENSE. It isn't the developers job to inspire you to play EVE, it's their job to provide the tools which makes playing EVE inspiring. Sheesh.
But I want to find a reason to play the game, I want to fly around in a big shiny battleship and kill stuff, I want to be a part of huge fleet battles with my alliance, but I can't, cause my character is less than 3 months old and I won't be able to be any good at that stuff for at least another year at best.
As to your last point it is the developers job to inspire me to play the game, that's their only job. |
Mag's
the united
Negative Ten.
15064
|
Posted - 2013.07.03 12:59:00 -
[47] - Quote
Chilli-Con Carnage wrote:But I want to find a reason to play the game, I want to fly around in a big shiny battleship and kill stuff, I want to be a part of huge fleet battles with my alliance, but I can't, cause my character is less than 3 months old and I won't be able to be any good at that stuff for at least another year at best.
As to your last point it is the developers job to inspire me to play the game, that's their only job. If your idea of being good is having lots of level 5 skills, then sorry no. You need skillz as well as SP to play this game. But as you already know you could bypass the learning time and buy a char, it kinda makes this threads idea moot.
Destination SkillQueue:-
It's like assuming the lions will ignore you in the savannah, if you're small, fat and look helpless. |
Anna Djan
Banana Corp
37
|
Posted - 2013.07.03 13:00:00 -
[48] - Quote
Chilli-Con Carnage wrote:
But I want to find a reason to play the game, I want to fly around in a big shiny battleship and kill stuff, I want to be a part of huge fleet battles with my alliance, but I can't, cause my character is less than 3 months old and I won't be able to be any good at that stuff for at least another year at best.
As to your last point it is the developers job to inspire me to play the game, that's their only job.
heh, you believe SP equates to skill :) |
Chilli-Con Carnage
Under the Table Inc.
WHY so Seri0Us
0
|
Posted - 2013.07.03 13:01:00 -
[49] - Quote
Zor'katar wrote:Chilli-Con Carnage wrote:'Anywhere' being nearly any corp in this game that does anything fun. Look at the recruitment channel and see just how many null-sec corp's require a 15 million SP requirement to get in. Certainly the good ones do. And now think of just how long it takes to get 15 million SP's in this game, yea a damn long time. Corporations set minimum SP requirements because they want their members to have a certain level of game experience, and SP is a convenient way to approximate that. There's nothing magical about the particular number they give. If a corp requires 15 million SP to join, and CCP starts giving out 5 million free SP to new players, then the corporation will probably raise the minimum to 20 million. If you ask them what actual skills they require, you'll find that the SP count of that is significantly less. Chilli-Con Carnage wrote:And what can you do prior to getting those SP's? Mission running? Faction Warfare maybe. Not a whole hell of a lot else for the first year of playing the game. Often corps will have (or be affiliated with) a separate noob training corp. Talk to their recruiters and ask where they would recommend you start.
Yes corporations set those minimum SP requirement's but when I can sit in a station for 18 months doing nothing to gain those SP's, then how does it prove my experience level? But wait, with my idea a player can gain those 15 million SP's (or whatever it might be) after only 7 months by getting out and doing stuff and a corporation can see that by simply looking at the birth date of a character. |
Chilli-Con Carnage
Under the Table Inc.
WHY so Seri0Us
0
|
Posted - 2013.07.03 13:02:00 -
[50] - Quote
Anna Djan wrote:Chilli-Con Carnage wrote:
But I want to find a reason to play the game, I want to fly around in a big shiny battleship and kill stuff, I want to be a part of huge fleet battles with my alliance, but I can't, cause my character is less than 3 months old and I won't be able to be any good at that stuff for at least another year at best.
As to your last point it is the developers job to inspire me to play the game, that's their only job.
heh, you believe SP equates to skill :)
Man you haven't read anything I have just said have have you? |
Chilli-Con Carnage
Under the Table Inc.
WHY so Seri0Us
0
|
Posted - 2013.07.03 13:03:00 -
[51] - Quote
Anna Djan wrote:Chilli-Con Carnage wrote:Anna Djan wrote:I think this is the worst idea I've seen in this section....
I smell a troll. How am I trolling? All I have done is come up with a good idea to get new players into the game and attempted to defend my position. You believe it's a good idea, I don't. In fact I think it's the worst idea I've seen on these forums recently.
Ahh so I'm a troll because I have a different opinion to you? |
Chilli-Con Carnage
Under the Table Inc.
WHY so Seri0Us
0
|
Posted - 2013.07.03 13:07:00 -
[52] - Quote
Anna Djan wrote:Chilli-Con Carnage wrote:
But I want to find a reason to play the game, I want to fly around in a big shiny battleship and kill stuff, I want to be a part of huge fleet battles with my alliance, but I can't, cause my character is less than 3 months old and I won't be able to be any good at that stuff for at least another year at best.
As to your last point it is the developers job to inspire me to play the game, that's their only job.
heh, you believe SP equates to skill :)
No absolutely not, but I believe you can't start truly learning how to play this game until you can get into the big corp's and get some solid pvp experience under your belt and I also believe that it shouldn't take such a long time to be able to even have a chance at joining one of these larger corp's. So SP's do not equal skill but you need SP's to have the chance of gaining skill. |
Mag's
the united
Negative Ten.
15064
|
Posted - 2013.07.03 13:07:00 -
[53] - Quote
Chilli-Con Carnage wrote:Anna Djan wrote:Chilli-Con Carnage wrote:
But I want to find a reason to play the game, I want to fly around in a big shiny battleship and kill stuff, I want to be a part of huge fleet battles with my alliance, but I can't, cause my character is less than 3 months old and I won't be able to be any good at that stuff for at least another year at best.
As to your last point it is the developers job to inspire me to play the game, that's their only job.
heh, you believe SP equates to skill :) Man you haven't read anything I have just said have have you? But you seem not to know what you're saying anyway. Why would you sit in a station for 18 months simply training? The whole idea is to be using and learning to use the equipment as you get it.
Plus I have a feeling you think level 5 is the only option here, it's not. It takes 71 days of none optimized attributes to get into a Maelstrom, it takes a total of 163 days to do that with tech 2 guns.
Destination SkillQueue:-
It's like assuming the lions will ignore you in the savannah, if you're small, fat and look helpless. |
Anna Djan
Banana Corp
39
|
Posted - 2013.07.03 13:10:00 -
[54] - Quote
Chilli-Con Carnage wrote:
Ahh so I'm a troll because I have a different opinion to you?
It's the only explanation for such a terrible idea.
1) Because you think Mission grinding is a good idea.
2) You think more spare time should give you an advantage over others in progression.
3) It's the mindset of an theme park MMO, immature mind.
4) You have no imagination to play your own way, so you want everyone to play YOUR way.
Want me to continue?
Chilli-Con Carnage wrote:[
No absolutely not, but I believe you can't start truly learning how to play this game until you can get into the big corp's and get some solid pvp experience under your belt and I also believe that it shouldn't take such a long time to be able to even have a chance at joining one of these larger corp's. So SP's do not equal skill but you need SP's to have the chance of gaining skill.
PvPing in big blobs requires one thing:
Listening to the smartest guy there (FC), flying the doctrine required and doing exactly what you are told.
If you want to truly learn about pvp, the mechanics... buy yourself 1000 frigs and go solo fight around lowsec, loss 1000 frigates, learn from them and try again.
Next jump in a cruiser and repeat and so on so forth. |
Zor'katar
Matari Recreation
108
|
Posted - 2013.07.03 13:10:00 -
[55] - Quote
Chilli-Con Carnage wrote:I want to fly around in a big shiny battleship and kill stuff,
Big shiny battleships are very expensive, and trying to short-circuit the huge amount of learning curve this game has will only make you broke fast.
Chilli-Con Carnage wrote:I want to be a part of huge fleet battles with my alliance, but I can't, cause my character is less than 3 months old and I won't be able to be any good at that stuff for at least another year at best.
Keep looking. It's not my area, but from what I understand there are null alliances that are happy to accept and train new players.
Chilli-Con Carnage wrote:As to your last point it is the developers job to inspire me to play the game, that's their only job.
Eve is a sandbox game. CCP provides the tools, but it's up to the players to decide what to do with them. |
Chilli-Con Carnage
Under the Table Inc.
WHY so Seri0Us
0
|
Posted - 2013.07.03 13:12:00 -
[56] - Quote
Mag's wrote:Chilli-Con Carnage wrote:Anna Djan wrote:Chilli-Con Carnage wrote:
But I want to find a reason to play the game, I want to fly around in a big shiny battleship and kill stuff, I want to be a part of huge fleet battles with my alliance, but I can't, cause my character is less than 3 months old and I won't be able to be any good at that stuff for at least another year at best.
As to your last point it is the developers job to inspire me to play the game, that's their only job.
heh, you believe SP equates to skill :) Man you haven't read anything I have just said have have you? But you seem not to know what you're saying anyway. Why would you sit in a station for 18 months simply training? The whole idea is to be using and learning to use the equipment as you get it. Plus I have a feeling you think level 5 is the only option here, it's not. It takes 71 days of none optimized attributes to get into a Maelstrom, it takes a total of 163 days to do that with tech 2 guns.
But surely your aware that just being able to sit in the ship does not mean your going to be able to do anything in it?
|
Mag's
the united
Negative Ten.
15064
|
Posted - 2013.07.03 13:15:00 -
[57] - Quote
Chilli-Con Carnage wrote:Mag's wrote:Chilli-Con Carnage wrote:
Man you haven't read anything I have just said have have you?
But you seem not to know what you're saying anyway. Why would you sit in a station for 18 months simply training? The whole idea is to be using and learning to use the equipment as you get it. Plus I have a feeling you think level 5 is the only option here, it's not. It takes 71 days of none optimized attributes to get into a Maelstrom, it takes a total of 163 days to do that with tech 2 guns. But surely your aware that just being able to sit in the ship does not mean your going to be able to do anything in it? Which means your idea is even worse. Why would getting into a ship faster, be any better than now? It won't, hence the reason for skillz, as well as SP.
Oh and those times I gave are being able to use it, not just sit in it. 
Destination SkillQueue:-
It's like assuming the lions will ignore you in the savannah, if you're small, fat and look helpless. |
Daniel Plain
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
1252
|
Posted - 2013.07.03 13:18:00 -
[58] - Quote
Chilli-Con Carnage wrote:Anna Djan wrote:I think this is the worst idea I've seen in this section....
I smell a troll. How am I trolling? All I have done is come up with a good idea to get new players into the game and attempted to defend my position.
i like how you try to help new players by forcing both new and old players into running missions (arguably the most boring part of the game)...
"I don't troll, I just give overly blunt responses that annoy people who are wrong but don't want to admit it. It's not my fault that people have sensitive feelings" -MXZF |
Chilli-Con Carnage
Under the Table Inc.
WHY so Seri0Us
0
|
Posted - 2013.07.03 13:18:00 -
[59] - Quote
Anna Djan wrote:Chilli-Con Carnage wrote:
Ahh so I'm a troll because I have a different opinion to you?
It's the only explanation for such a terrible idea. 1) Because you think Mission grinding is a good idea. 2) You think more spare time should give you an advantage over others in progression. 3) It's the mindset of an theme park MMO, immature mind. 4) You have no imagination to play your own way, so you want everyone to play YOUR way. Want me to continue?
1) Never once have I said mission grinding is a good idea, I have said PvE in this sucks and is boring but that my idea gives people a reason to do it.
2) Players who can devote more time to a game should be rewarded more than someone who plays less, that should be a simple suggestion.
3) Theme Park MMO's are currently the most popular type of MMO on the market and are played an enjoyed by millions upon millions of people around the world. Is it only the immature that play Theme Park games?
4) Err I don't know where your getting this stuff from and I have never once told people how they should play this game. I suggested gaining SP's for EVERYTHING you can do in this game, not just mission running.
Want me to continue? |
Balthazar Lestrane
Happy Endings.
The Retirement Club
8
|
Posted - 2013.07.03 13:19:00 -
[60] - Quote
Forum derp. |
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