Good god

[Bhaalgorn, Quan HonorTheCall's Bhaalgorn]
F-90 Positional Signal Amplifier
'Natura' Warp Core Stabilizer I
'Natura' Warp Core Stabilizer I
'Natura' Warp Core Stabilizer I
'Natura' Warp Core Stabilizer I
Chelm's Modified Energized Adaptive Nano Membrane

Tobias' Modified X-Large Shield Booster
Gist X-Type 100MN Microwarpdrive
True Sansha Stasis Webifier
Cormack's Modified Sensor Booster
'Investor' Tracking Disruptor I

'Ballista' Tachyon Beam Laser I,True Sanshas Microwave L
'Ballista' Tachyon Beam Laser I,True Sanshas Microwave L
Selynne's Modified Dual Heavy Beam Laser,True Sanshas Microwave L
Selynne's Modified Dual Heavy Beam Laser,True Sanshas Microwave L
Draclira's Modified Large EMP Smartbomb

[empty rig slot]

Good god

[Bhaalgorn, Quan HonorTheCall's Bhaalgorn]
F-90 Positional Signal Amplifier
'Natura' Warp Core Stabilizer I
'Natura' Warp Core Stabilizer I
'Natura' Warp Core Stabilizer I
'Natura' Warp Core Stabilizer I
Chelm's Modified Energized Adaptive Nano Membrane

Tobias' Modified X-Large Shield Booster
Gist X-Type 100MN Microwarpdrive
True Sansha Stasis Webifier
Cormack's Modified Sensor Booster
'Investor' Tracking Disruptor I

'Ballista' Tachyon Beam Laser I,True Sanshas Microwave L
'Ballista' Tachyon Beam Laser I,True Sanshas Microwave L
Selynne's Modified Dual Heavy Beam Laser,True Sanshas Microwave L
Selynne's Modified Dual Heavy Beam Laser,True Sanshas Microwave L
Draclira's Modified Large EMP Smartbomb

[empty rig slot]

Good god

[Bhaalgorn, Quan HonorTheCall's Bhaalgorn]
F-90 Positional Signal Amplifier
'Natura' Warp Core Stabilizer I
'Natura' Warp Core Stabilizer I
'Natura' Warp Core Stabilizer I
'Natura' Warp Core Stabilizer I
Chelm's Modified Energized Adaptive Nano Membrane

Tobias' Modified X-Large Shield Booster
Gist X-Type 100MN Microwarpdrive
True Sansha Stasis Webifier
Cormack's Modified Sensor Booster
'Investor' Tracking Disruptor I

'Ballista' Tachyon Beam Laser I,True Sanshas Microwave L
'Ballista' Tachyon Beam Laser I,True Sanshas Microwave L
Selynne's Modified Dual Heavy Beam Laser,True Sanshas Microwave L
Selynne's Modified Dual Heavy Beam Laser,True Sanshas Microwave L
Draclira's Modified Large EMP Smartbomb

[empty rig slot]

That Bhaalgorn is at a better place now.

650+DPS ship is not really a noob ship.....

I cried when I saw that fit. That Bhaalgorn is at a better place now.

Regardless. One incident does not disprove anything. PLEX is P2W in the right hands.

Confused whether to shoot at that ship, or chant "THE POWER OF CHRIST COMPELS YOU" will liberally applying holy water

If you need to add a qualifier to the statement, then it's not P2W at all.

P2W means Pay to Win. He paid, but he couldn't win. Thus it isn't the overwhelming statistical advantage suggested by the very term you are suggesting.

It might not be P2W, but your reasoning for that doesn't make any sense in this case. What he is trying to say is, that this is anecdotal evidence and therefore doesn't really matter. Doing otherwise would be like saying an OP ship doesn't need any rebalancing, because some idiot fail fitted one and lost it to a battle badger. It's a cherry picked example, that is statistically insignificant and doesn't represent typical cases, so it doesn't prove anything one way or another.

If you need to add a qualifier to the statement, then it's not P2W at all.

P2W means Pay to Win. He paid, but he couldn't win. Thus it isn't the overwhelming statistical advantage suggested by the very term you are suggesting.

All the isk in the world won't allow you bludgeon someone into submission if you suck at this game.

Pay to Win doesnt mean a blind ******** Bonobo (likely this is some sort of BRT experiment) can play EvE well even when paying since only humans should play EvE.

It allows you to pay other people to do it for you though.

Regardless. One incident does not disprove anything. PLEX is P2W in the right hands.

Pay to win would only be pay to win if you cant get the modules without paying money.
No idea how you got the impression that eve has a pay to win.

I'm curious as to where the Bonobo got ahold of a credit card? And does it have people clothes on, or is it just naked? The clothes make the man, as they say.



I'm going to have to go semantics on this one. That's not paying to win, insomuch as it is the aggrieved party paying for the satisfaction of ensuring that someone else loses. A small difference, but still important.

Obviously its handler at MIT. Probably took the poor thing weeks of electroshock (wrong slot) / bananna (right slot) training to fit those ships too.

Likely shiny silver spacesuit. They like those.

For PLEX you can buy OGB and carrier pilots, ships, assign fighters to your main, turn on skirmish and siege boosters - voila! - you are much more capable than few hours ago.

Those would only make you far more capable of sitting in a wider variety of hulls. It won't amount to anything more than hilarious killmails if you don't know how to fit or fly them, and that's the kind of thing you can't buy.

PLEX is P2W

Uh, this could also be staged by the guy that killed it. Some people have to much isk, reached endgame eve and are bored. What's left to do? Yes, make funny killmails.

Uh, this could also be staged by the guy that killed it. Some people have to much isk, reached endgame eve and are bored. What's left to do? Yes, make funny killmails.

No its just a terrible pilot.

I don't think we're allowed to post KMs, so please check out eve kill. The Bhaalgorn in the top left (Most expensive kills).

Noob victim in a veteran pirate ship failing to win against a veteran player in a newbie ship.

PS: Before you point out Concords participation, please note that they only account for 15% of the damage. 15b isk did not prevent fail 2 win noobie from making an uber fail mistake.

There's always going to be a disagreement between people regarding PLEX being P2W or not. Just depends on how you view it.


Buying PLEX from CCP then selling in-game for isk is seen by some as a form of P2W. But then you could argue that multiple accounts are also P2W. I don't see much difference between PLEX and multiple accounts they give different benefits but I don't think one is worse than the other. I don't see a problem with either where EVE is concerned.

Neither PLEX or multiple accounts are P2W in the sense of buying super weapons from an in-game shop which can't be obtained in any other manner. This is the way a lot of people view P2W.


My view is PLEX are a form of P2W and so are multiple accounts. I don't see any problem in using either though in EVE as EVE is more a universe in chaos and a bit more chaos isn't going to matter. I've purchased PLEX in the past and would purchase them again if I felt I had a requirement for them, although I no longer use multiple accounts but that was my choice.

I don't think we're allowed to post KMs, so please check out eve kill. The Bhaalgorn in the top left (Most expensive kills).

Noob victim in a veteran pirate ship failing to win against a veteran player in a newbie ship.

PS: Before you point out Concords participation, please note that they only account for 15% of the damage. 15b isk did not prevent fail 2 win noobie from making an uber fail mistake.

Just because something gives benefits doesn't make it a win. One could extend the logic that "paying for PLEX is p2w" to "paying for a subscription is p2w". Those paying for a monthly subscription don't have to buy a PLEX to keep playing, giving them several hundred million ISK more per month than those who buy PLEX with ISK. Does this make paying for a regular subscription p2w?

Which is part of why I don't see multiple accounts or PLEX as a problem. Plus I like EVE unbalanced, if everything was fair it would be boring. The world is not fair so I see no problem with EVE not being fair.

Was agreeing with your post until this point.

Regardless. One incident does not disprove anything. PLEX is P2W in the right hands.

You'd have a point if you could do PLEX for SP, until then you are wrong.

You'd have a point if you could do PLEX for SP, until then you are wrong.

It's the FoTM whine. That and freighters getting ganked, which is apparently a new phenomenon.

15b isk did not prevent fail 2 win noobie from making an uber fail mistake.

pay to win usually mean: you pay to increase your chance to win. It's not that if you pay you win without options.....

another example: take 2 n00bs with equal skills and experience. First one plays "without PLEX" and uses "normal" ship. Second one plays with PLEX and uses "uber pirate ship". Keeping aside stupid mistakes second pilot will win in this situation with big chance.

From this point it looks more like "PLEX is pay2win"

If you need to add a qualifier to the statement, then it's not P2W at all.

P2W means Pay to Win. He paid, but he couldn't win. Thus it isn't the overwhelming statistical advantage suggested by the very term you are suggesting.

I too like to show a single example of extreme idiocy, and use it as proof....

Good god

[Bhaalgorn, Quan HonorTheCall's Bhaalgorn]
F-90 Positional Signal Amplifier
'Natura' Warp Core Stabilizer I
'Natura' Warp Core Stabilizer I
'Natura' Warp Core Stabilizer I
'Natura' Warp Core Stabilizer I
Chelm's Modified Energized Adaptive Nano Membrane

Tobias' Modified X-Large Shield Booster
Gist X-Type 100MN Microwarpdrive
True Sansha Stasis Webifier
Cormack's Modified Sensor Booster
'Investor' Tracking Disruptor I

'Ballista' Tachyon Beam Laser I,True Sanshas Microwave L
'Ballista' Tachyon Beam Laser I,True Sanshas Microwave L
Selynne's Modified Dual Heavy Beam Laser,True Sanshas Microwave L
Selynne's Modified Dual Heavy Beam Laser,True Sanshas Microwave L
Draclira's Modified Large EMP Smartbomb

[empty rig slot]

The perspective that it's pay to win is understandable. However, a basic comprehension of the economics involved does bring about the point that it doesn't provide any player with any advantage not earned by the cooperation of in game play.

What I mean by this is that some players couldn't play the game if they couldn't pay for it in game by giving adequate time to grinding out the ISK to buy a PLEX in game. They are substituting their in game time for the subscription fee they would normally pay, which I think few players would argue is unfair.

The players who buy and sell PLEX are doing nothing more then providing the means for other players to play a game they otherwise couldn't, and in fact they have to pay MORE then the subscription costs to provide that benefit. As a further note some players could never play this game for lack of time to do the inherently required ISK grinding, but they aren't inherently bad players when you take into account the way they pilot, fit, and train these players are arguably 'P2W' but the grinding required to make their ships and buy their advantage wasn't skipped it was merely performed by someone willing to do it for the luxury of not having to pay a subscription..

The price of PLEX is part of the market, and is not artificially set, it plays no direct part in EVEs economy, in fact, because its paying for subscriptions and allowing a larger player base its ACTUALLY an ISK sink decreasing inflation in the game by making billions of ISK that was grinded for disappear into the void when a PLEX is consumed for subscription instead of on in game items. Since the PLEX is part of the market if too many players ever try to 'P2W' then they will over-saturate the market with PLEX and the players who need them to play will be willing to pay less ISK for the overabundance allowing players with less internal game means to produce the necessary ISK to also keep playing, always perpetually keeping the price reasonable to the amount of effort expended to keep the economy running, and keep players playing..

From an averaged pure economic perspective there can be no argument , PLEX do not provide an advantage in the economy or in the game... The key word here is 'averaged'. In game however the real disparity is between the players who have BOTH the unlimited free time AND the large wallet to invest both ways, and players who have a life and thus lack the necessary time AND money to stay in game through PLEX. However, aside from these two extremes all that is really done by PLEX existing is giving players with limited time an opportunity to play instead of grind, and players with ample time an opportunity to grind to play where otherwise they couldn't play at all. .

The people in the middle with the money to spare for a subscription and the time to spare to make a profit and move forward aren't economically disadvantaged, they are merely disgruntled that these other players game to a financial agreement that frankly could have just as easily been brokered in real life if it wasn't brokered in game by CCP as it was, and nothing could have been done about it if it was done that way, so realistically at least this allows CCP to take advantage of something that will occur rather they, or any player likes it or not.