GǪwhich raises the question of why it needs to be fixed. It's not a problem, after all.

No, I think that if someone looks at the market and sees a buy order and then blindly believes that this means that he is mechanically ensured to get that exact amount of money, he doesn't know what's going on.

Falling for a the margin trading scam is no different than not updating the market window and failing to notice that someone else beat you to the sale (or the buyer cancelled the order): the order is gone, you still have the goods, you are free to try some other order to liquidate your stuff. If at any point you didn't do your research and bought stuff at outrageously inflated prices, then that's your problem. So your not paying attention or being unfamiliar with the market mechanics does not make it an exploit.

You mean kind of like how it already works?

You seem to have a vested interest in keeping this exploit around.

The fantasy world you live sounds awesome. I'd like to subscribe to your RSS feed.

There are good and salient points made about how difficult or even impossible it would be to implement true "margin trading" in EVE (the argument against negative wallet balances and the disposable nature of characters, for instance), and I generally agree with those. I don't think Margin Trading needs to be "fixed" in that regard.

I do feel however that some distinction should be made between clear, fillable buy orders, and those that cannot be closed because there is insufficient capital in the buyer's wallet to complete the order.

[You seem to have a vested interest in keeping this exploit around.

I'd like to subscribe to your RSS feed.

There is a problem revealed by the Margin Trade Scam...

CCP does a pisspoor job of informing new players that buy orders are NOT guaranteed!

Before a child understands how a silver dollar is worth more than two quarters, they innately believe that two quarters are worth more because 2 is more than 1. If CCP doesn't educate people as to the nuances of the market (i.e. that buy orders are may not be legitimate), then people will easily fall for this scam.

Now, perhaps I'm ignorant of CCP's education system, but I would like some additional effort put in place to inform players of common techniques for scamming.

Something as simple as a "warning" above the buy orders section that "buy orders will fail if the buyer has insufficient funds".

Outside of that, let the scams continue!!!

Has anyone pointed out yet that you can't fix stupid?

EVE has a bit of a different way of educating than most MMOs. The onus is on the player to educate themselves. That, or have someone else "educate" them, which typically involves eating a loss of some kind, and learning from a mistake made.

Educating themselves, like this:

http://wiki.eveonline.com/en/wiki/Market_guide

That link does need cleanup, and it is EVElopedia after all, but there is plenty of useful info there for the newbie.

What I think you fail to understand is, the ignorant will not always remain ignorant. Another player may come along and help them out, or they might decide to look the info up themselves. But the stupid will always remain stupid.

While joining a corp with informative players, reading the wiki, and following the forums will keep you informed and up to date on current tricks, techniques, et al, I believe certain information should be immediately presented to players that are learning the game. IMO, this should include:

How to use the market (which should include a warning about how buy orders are NOT guaranteed).
Basic Aggression Mechanics (i.e. what allows other players to shoot you, including a warning they can always suicide into you).

Nothing major, but something to turn the victims from completely ignorant to simply oblivious.

Remove the skill, easy fix. Market scammer then can try to do pvp in in lowsec with all their leisure time back.

We are extending the "Do not talk in local" rule to all public channels in and out of game.

Anyone caught doing this must be reported to their leadership.

Remove the skill, easy fix.

Why? There's nothing to fix and the skill is very useful for traders.

I agree with this. I think an easy fix would be regardless of your margins trading buy orders should take into escrow a minimum of a buy of your minimum volume. Therefore ALWAYS one buy order has to be fill but not all. Then when a buy order is filled, it does an new escrow for for the minimum volume.

This way people who are not "scamming" still only need a some escrow (especially as they tend to have 1 unit minimum orders) people falsely avertising that they buy stuff have to buy 1 order, then if they can't fill the escrow for the second minimum their order is cancelled.

I think this would do it.

KIA

There is a way in fixing this, you can add a filter on the market which allow you to ignore buy orders which have been placed with this skil.
It would not completely remove this way of easy scamming but it would make it more difficult and clear to you if a buy order can ve filled or not.

I dont agree on calling this an exploit though, its just a very very easy way of scamming which might need to be looked at.
The solution i suggested could be a start to make it less easy.

This already exists, it just takes some slight amount of thought. Just check the item's history. If the "buy order" is for about 50 times as much as the sell history, then it's a margin scam.

Is this too hard, or something?

Thats not what i suggested, a filter would ignore the buyorders placed with this skill or with reduced market escrow.
The idea with these scams is that they use very rare items which hardly anyone sells, so when you try to check price history there isnt as much info.

There is a way in fixing this, you can add a filter on the market which allow you to ignore buy orders which have been placed with this skil.

Thats not what i suggested, a filter would ignore the buyorders placed with this skill or with reduced market escrow.
The idea with these scams is that they use very rare items which hardly anyone sells, so when you try to check price history there isnt as much info.

"Whenever a mechanics change is proposed on behalf of 'new players', that change is always to the overwhelming advantage of richer, older players."

I think it would make sense to change it so you have to cover at least the min buy amount. Thats all.

I think it would make sense to change it so you have to cover at least the min buy amount. Thats all.