If you use the filter to ignore buy orders which have bee placed with margin trading the only person who losses money in such a case is the seller since he/she has less buy orders to sell to.

So the people who use this skill without the scamming are hardly effected by this.

Anyway like i said, i dont care if they change this skill im just giving a suggestion.

actually margin trading is an exploit but the vulnerability isn't in the eve code, it's in the player, so it's all cool

No, it's not an exploit. It's a scam. CCP Falcon already stated that in this thread.

I took this from an EvE website:

Exploits

An exploit is when someone bypasses normal game mechanics, such as by utilizing a bug in the game, allowing him to take advantage of other players without them having any means of preventing it whatsoever.

"whoosh" - what you just heard as something grazed your head

They still have their stuff. The price they paid for the items is irrelevant to the question of whether or not they're hurt by their inability to sell their goods to a specific market order.




Except that the market escrow system is not a bank. It is an escrow system.

Aside from that, you can't overdraw on your wallet, nor can you write a bad checque, so there's no fee to charge even if it were.

You are penalized. Your order fails, meaning that you need to spend the broker's fee again in order to have a chance at purchasing the items you want to buy. If you had the ISK to cover, you'd have the items and wouldn't need to pay the broker's fee a second time.

If you want to hurt "margin" scammers, snake their escrow, or cause their orders to fail using items purchased at their actual value (so you can later sell those items at a profit or at no loss). (In quotes because the scam is complete once you've purchased the item, not when you try to sell it as you seem to think).

So how do you distinguish between someone trying the margin trade scam and someone using margin trading legitimately who simply has had as many sales as they were expecting?

Drawing a line thru a definition doesnt fix or change that definition. At least not for the majority of us grounded in reality.

Margin trading is not considered an exploit.

However, if you do run into a legitimate exploit in game, feel free to file a support ticked via the F12 menu in game.

Alternatively, if you dislike margin trading and would like to suggest changes, please feel free to speak to the CSM, or post suggestions for changes in the Features & Ideas Discussion Forum.

You forgot to lock the thread m8

Clever use of Margin Trading to set nasty traps for fun, profit and tears is no different to clever use of remote sensor boosting gatecamps to set nasty traps for fun, profit and tears.

Both are a part of what makes EVE great.

These things stick out like pink lighthouses on fire.

The scam requires both the buy order and the sell order. If the buy order was not there people would not buy it in the first place.

As to negative wallet balances, maybe you should tell RMTers that their wallet isn't negative

The only think I find broken in all of this is that people have effectively agreed to pay an amount, that they don't actually have.

And the bank doesn't slap them with a huge fee.

I mean come on a bit of reality here, they should be handed huge bills from the bank and have their trading shut down until they pay the bank.

Lets face it, banks know how to make money and if scamming is acceptable in EvE why wouldn't the banks do it.

Would OP rather have a market like WoW where people buy the cheap stuff and then repost it all day long running to and fro to a mailbox every few minutes???

Actually I'm fairly certain you can get in trouble for doing exactly this in WoW. So to answer your question, yes, the op would like a game more like WoW. Maybe he should go play it?

Hilariously enough when I was still young and hadn't found EVE I got rich manipulating the market like this in WoW. My items would literally sell in an hour or so, and I'd just buy more items and relist them again for twice what I paid for them. I wanted a more complex market after doing this and ended up finding EVE in my searches. Haven't played WoW since.

Yep i am also guilty of the mailbox relisting sessions in WoW, and then also finding Eve and being like, omg, this is a market!!!

DONT TOUCH IT!

Bollocks. If I fly through a gate in low sec or null sec I know I can be attacked. A new player learns that pretty easily and quickly. To avoid a margin scam I have to realize it's possible when I probably don't understand the intricacies of the market to begin with. It's pretty intuitive that if you fly a ship into the wrong place you will be shot. It's not intuitive that if you click a sell button that the next second the money won't be there to complete the sale. I've heard a lot of experienced players rant about getting caught by this. If this "feature" of Eve were put to a yes-or-no vote, I doubt that most players would support it.

Features like this one and the permissiveness toward scamming are parts of the game that the majority of players would very likely vote to get rid of, but somehow that doesn't matter. Whereas in the case of other aspects of the game, the fact that most players want x rather than y is a sign that x should be supported. Doublethink. My greed is good because CCP supports my activities, whereas your greed is bad and causes you to fall for my scams. Meaning I am also virtuous as a scammer since I am teaching you not to be greedy. Hogwash. But that passes for thought in Eve.

I suggest you play the real stock market and you will have a much firmer understanding of why you never trade on margin.

... waits for the part of this thread where we all sit around the campfire, join hands, light a spliff and sing "Kumbaya"...