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Other Minion
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Posted - 2005.12.08 09:16:00 -
[1]
Has anyone messed around with them. They have no penalties on the cloak. Only thing the cloak now does is it has a 5 sec delay to reactivate. You can now uncloak, instantly lock, fire, and 2 sec later recloak.
I had 3 arb cruise, 1 imporved cloak II, 3 painter II, 1 sensor booster, 1 micro aux pwr, 1 bcu II.
I was able to 1 volly all frigs other then retribution, hawk, and enyo. All ceptors went pop. Crusiers took three vollies. With a gang on three of us on FFA we were able to gank megathrons and geddons. 1 bomber with 3 damps, 1 with 3 painters, 1 with scramblers and webs that is crazy.
The cloak has now been buffed to be much more then some fancy AB.
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SeDSilva
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Posted - 2005.12.08 09:22:00 -
[2]
CCP RULES ALL YESSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSS!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Been looking forward to these changes for a long time now, been pvping with a manti as it is and its awesome but this change makes Silva a very happy bunny  - bunny ears
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Alex Harumichi
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Posted - 2005.12.08 09:29:00 -
[3]
Edited by: Alex Harumichi on 08/12/2005 09:30:19
 Originally by: Other Minion
Has anyone messed around with them. They have no penalties on the cloak. Only thing the cloak now does is it has a 5 sec delay to reactivate. You can now uncloak, instantly lock, fire, and 2 sec later recloak.
I had 3 arb cruise, 1 imporved cloak II, 3 painter II, 1 sensor booster, 1 micro aux pwr, 1 bcu II.
WTB: Nemesis, Hound or Purifier with 3 missile slots.
Sigh, why can't CCP do something to make the other bombers besides Manticore useful. Either add the 3rd launcher point to them, or remove it from the Manticore. As is, there is only one useful bomber in the game, the rest are hangar bait.
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Testy Mctest
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Posted - 2005.12.08 09:32:00 -
[4]
It's not really a problem...training another races' frig 5 is hardly a massive time investment if you absolutely have to have a Manticore.
Or, you could try using another one and mounting - omg - something else along with your 2 cruise launchers.
You do realise that even though Manticores can mount 3 cruises, its still not easy to, right?
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Alex Harumichi
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Posted - 2005.12.08 09:42:00 -
[5]
Originally by: Testy Mctest
It's not really a problem...training another races' frig 5 is hardly a massive time investment if you absolutely have to have a Manticore.
Or, you could try using another one and mounting - omg - something else along with your 2 cruise launchers.
You do realise that even though Manticores can mount 3 cruises, its still not easy to, right?
Oh, I can learn to fly a Manticore easily, that's not the problem. It's just that having one ship make 3 others semi-useless in comparison annoys me. It's like if one of the AFs suddenly had 50% more firepower than the others (like the Manti has in comparison to the others in the cruise missile department)... pretty much everyone would fly that one AF, no?
Yes, I know that I can *theoretically* fit guns on the others, but the grid only allows very small guns, which means I have to get very close... which
a) is usually pretty hard
b) forces me to totally commit to the fight, I can't do the snipe & fade tactics that bombers were made for
Bombers were *made* for cruise missiles and one-salvo tactics. The Manticore has 50% more firepower than the others in that department. It's really not rocket science to see the problem here.
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Darwinia
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Posted - 2005.12.08 09:42:00 -
[6]
That seems a tad.. overpowered.
IMO firing just after uncloaking is fine (Bird of Prey FTW  ), but if you cloak before they hit, then your cruisers should go inactive like when you warp.
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Other Minion
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Posted - 2005.12.08 09:42:00 -
[7]
Originally by: Alex Harumichi
Edited by: Alex Harumichi on 08/12/2005 09:30:19
Originally by: Other Minion
Has anyone messed around with them. They have no penalties on the cloak. Only thing the cloak now does is it has a 5 sec delay to reactivate. You can now uncloak, instantly lock, fire, and 2 sec later recloak.
I had 3 arb cruise, 1 imporved cloak II, 3 painter II, 1 sensor booster, 1 micro aux pwr, 1 bcu II.
WTB: Nemesis, Hound or Purifier with 3 missile slots.
Sigh, why can't CCP do something to make the other bombers besides Manticore useful. Either add the 3rd launcher point to them, or remove it from the Manticore. As is, there is only one useful bomber in the game, the rest are hangar bait.
Actually we were finding something funny. The other 3 don't need a third launcher. They actually are more devastating then the manticore with the dmg mod stacking changes. Since 2 dmg mods right now does a uber high boost the purifier with its 3 low slots and more then enough grid to fit its launcher pops ships the manticore can't. Harpies, Hawks, Enyos, and Iskurs all can't be poped because of their uber ken res, but the purifier with 3 BCU II rapes them.
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Alex Harumichi
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Posted - 2005.12.08 09:45:00 -
[8]
Originally by: Other Minion
Actually we were finding something funny. The other 3 don't need a third launcher. They actually are more devastating then the manticore with the dmg mod stacking changes. Since 2 dmg mods right now does a uber high boost the purifier with its 3 low slots and more then enough grid to fit its launcher pops ships the manticore can't. Harpies, Hawks, Enyos, and Iskurs all can't be poped because of their uber ken res, but the purifier with 3 BCU II rapes them.
Ok, that's a good viewpoint, thanks. I'll have to play around with them, then.
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Sun Ra
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Posted - 2005.12.08 09:53:00 -
[9]
Manticore has 3 missle slots AND 4 midslots, just makes it so much better than the rest 
We're coming for you |
Ethidium Bromide
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Posted - 2005.12.08 09:54:00 -
[10]
33.3% in dmg alone is a little harsh..
specially for race restricted pilots like me
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BABARR
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Posted - 2005.12.08 10:24:00 -
[11]
The time of the cloacked chicken who wait to gank somethink is become... yarhh! thx CCP
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maudib
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Posted - 2005.12.08 10:34:00 -
[12]
yeay i might actually sell some nemesis after the patch =)
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Brute Helmet
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Posted - 2005.12.08 10:35:00 -
[13]
I dont really understand why TomB stated that they will be rebalanced, but not until after RMR.
Why acknowledge that there is an issue, but then just delay it. There were many easy solutions suggested in the Stealth bomber thread, non of which required any programming, just a small database change.
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Roba
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Posted - 2005.12.08 10:42:00 -
[14]
33% more fire pwr due to an extra slot on the manticore. But it can barely fit 1 BCU because it has pwr grid issuses. Right now on Sisi you get something like a 70% dps boost with 3 dmg mods. So a Purifier being able to fit 3 dmg mods is a significant advantage.
I am really not sure on the dmg mod numbers. I just know that on most ships I am getting gank dmg with 3 - 4 dmg mods and seeing nothing after that 5th. A 2 extra low slot for dmg mods advantage is significant now... I think... to damn early in the morning for me to slowly think out any numbers.... need coffee....
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Alex Harumichi
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Posted - 2005.12.08 10:48:00 -
[15]
Originally by: Roba
33% more fire pwr due to an extra slot on the manticore. But it can barely fit 1 BCU because it has pwr grid issuses. Right now on Sisi you get something like a 70% dps boost with 3 dmg mods. So a Purifier being able to fit 3 dmg mods is a significant advantage.
Actually, 50% more (2 launchers vs 3 launchers). And it can fit a ton of target painters, due to the midslots.
It's unbalanced, simple as that... though the new stacking rules may even things out a bit, as others have noted.
Looking forward to Tomb doing some equalizing sometime down the line (though pref. not by nerfing the Manti, I'd just like the others to get some small boosts)
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Other Minion
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Posted - 2005.12.08 10:53:00 -
[16]
Originally by: Alex Harumichi
Originally by: Roba
33% more fire pwr due to an extra slot on the manticore. But it can barely fit 1 BCU because it has pwr grid issuses. Right now on Sisi you get something like a 70% dps boost with 3 dmg mods. So a Purifier being able to fit 3 dmg mods is a significant advantage.
Actually, 50% more (2 launchers vs 3 launchers). And it can fit a ton of target painters, due to the midslots.
It's unbalanced, simple as that... though the new stacking rules may even things out a bit, as others have noted.
Looking forward to Tomb doing some equalizing sometime down the line (though pref. not by nerfing the Manti, I'd just like the others to get some small boosts)
Manticore doing ken dmg really is a disadvantage. Thermal is the least tanked dmg in the game. EM and Exp are the most likely to not be tanked... but Ken is the most tank half the time... and three races of tech II ships have over 70% base res to ken dmg. (amarr, caldari, gallente)
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Alex Harumichi
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Posted - 2005.12.08 11:02:00 -
[17]
Originally by: Other Minion
Manticore doing ken dmg really is a disadvantage. Thermal is the least tanked dmg in the game. EM and Exp are the most likely to not be tanked... but Ken is the most tank half the time... and three races of tech II ships have over 70% base res to ken dmg. (amarr, caldari, gallente)
(you probably mean 'most tanked' near thermal there)
Yeah, a lot of popular ships have high kinetic resists. But consider the Nemesis. Only 2 cruise launchers *and* does thermal damage. Easily gets the vote for suckiest bomber.
...but I'm not sure how far the damage type should be taken into account when comparing stuff. Should ships that do em or expl damage get more damage then kin or the? But that would make them too effective vs. ships that have expl or em holes (Gallente, lots of shield tankers).
I think you should mostly just look at the damage numbers, and not that much on the damage type. Whatever damage you do, it will always suck vs. some opponents and be great against others. It's very situational, and ideally you'd choose the bomber depending on what you expect to be facing.
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Hobblah
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Posted - 2005.12.08 11:13:00 -
[18]
Anyone who has flown a manticore knows it has some serious issues. It might still be the best Stealthbomber but it is not like it just does 50% more damage and has not to pay for it.
Manticore has lowest grid but it has to fit most Cruise launhers. One MAPC is a must leaving only one low slot (less damage mods). It is the most combersome. With my skills Manticore cant warp 55au at one go meaning in practise that it will be left behind in most gang ops I have been.
Just by looking the stats Nemesis definitely looks bad. It has 2 launchers and has most of the problems Manticore has in lesser extent. I will try to fit one soon and compare it to Manticore. Any comments on Purifier and Hound?
-Hobblah
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Hugh Ruka
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Posted - 2005.12.08 12:37:00 -
[19]
Originally by: Alex Harumichi
Originally by: Roba
33% more fire pwr due to an extra slot on the manticore. But it can barely fit 1 BCU because it has pwr grid issuses. Right now on Sisi you get something like a 70% dps boost with 3 dmg mods. So a Purifier being able to fit 3 dmg mods is a significant advantage.
Actually, 50% more (2 launchers vs 3 launchers). And it can fit a ton of target painters, due to the midslots.
It's unbalanced, simple as that... though the new stacking rules may even things out a bit, as others have noted.
Looking forward to Tomb doing some equalizing sometime down the line (though pref. not by nerfing the Manti, I'd just like the others to get some small boosts)
guided missile precision lvl 4 and the bomber cruise missile explosion radius bonus give you 40m explosion radius ... no need for more than 1 target painter. the BCUs the other bombers can fit are more of an advantage. second, kinetic is heavily tanked.
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Removed due to offensive content - Laqum
I realy liked my signature. Oh well ... |
Equinox II
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Posted - 2005.12.08 12:52:00 -
[20]
Finally, now my army of manticores will be usefull.. :)
Did they fix warp cap-usage too?
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Glassback
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Posted - 2005.12.08 12:52:00 -
[21]
I think I was shot in my ceptor by the original poster. I was happily scooting around FFA waiting for a BH/GM to bring out a Titan/Carrier and I get targetted by something small 50km away. So I think "nothing to worry about" next thing I'm in structure.
I can't wait for bombers to become usefull, they are gona be great fun. 2-4 of these things coaked at a gate and a bit of patience.
G.
I've got an idea--an idea so smart that my head would explode if I even began to know what I'm talking about
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Alex Harumichi
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Posted - 2005.12.08 12:53:00 -
[22]
Originally by: Hugh Ruka
guided missile precision lvl 4 and the bomber cruise missile explosion radius bonus give you 40m explosion radius ... no need for more than 1 target painter. the BCUs the other bombers can fit are more of an advantage. second, kinetic is heavily tanked.
I don't think 40m is going to cut it vs. interceptors (sigrad somewhere in the 25m neighborhood). The multiple painters give a significant advantage here.
Sure, maybe the painters are offset by the others' ability to fit more bcus. But then again we get to 2 launchers vs. 3 launchers, which is still unbalanced. The other bombers need help.
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CB LoKi
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Posted - 2005.12.08 12:55:00 -
[23]
Can someone post the like to the SiSi database ftp thingy ma'bob?
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Mudkest
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Posted - 2005.12.08 12:57:00 -
[24]
Originally by: Ethidium Bromide
33.3% in dmg alone is a little harsh..
specially for race restricted pilots like me
out of curiosity, why race restricted?
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Scalor Valentis
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Posted - 2005.12.08 12:59:00 -
[25]
Originally by: BABARR
The time of the cloacked chicken who wait to gank somethink is become... yarhh! thx CCP
mind you, that cloack pvp was inventted before bombers.
and was used by some wery skilled players.
this is going ot make things lil easier for rest
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Joerd Toastius
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Posted - 2005.12.08 13:03:00 -
[26]
Some people like to stick to one race only
And on that note, the solution for the Purifier at least is obvious. Junk the cruise missile bonus and give it a fitting bonus for Tachyon Beams instead 
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Grim Vandal
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Posted - 2005.12.08 13:11:00 -
[27]
i really wonder about tech 2 missiles ...
and therefor you must fit tech 2 cruise launchers which means even more fitting problems on the manticore ...
Greetings Grim |
franny
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Posted - 2005.12.08 13:54:00 -
[28]
Originally by: CB LoKi
Edited by: CB LoKi on 08/12/2005 13:12:33
Edited by: CB LoKi on 08/12/2005 13:12:00
Edited by: CB LoKi on 08/12/2005 12:58:13
Can someone post the LINK to the SiSi database ftp thingy ma'bob? PLEASE!
PLEASE!
PLEASE!
PLEASE!
PLEASE!
PLEASE!
PLEASE!
PLEASE!
PLEASE!
PLEASE!
you mean this?
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Chai N'Dorr
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Posted - 2005.12.08 14:13:00 -
[29]
Originally by: Other Minion
Has anyone messed around with them. They have no penalties on the cloak. Only thing the cloak now does is it has a 5 sec delay to reactivate. You can now uncloak, instantly lock, fire, and 2 sec later recloak.
Do I read correctly in this that recloaking does not destroy your missiles anymore?
_
Short Story: Planetside |
Grimpak
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Posted - 2005.12.08 14:29:00 -
[30]
Originally by: Other Minion
Originally by: Alex Harumichi
Edited by: Alex Harumichi on 08/12/2005 09:30:19
Originally by: Other Minion
Has anyone messed around with them. They have no penalties on the cloak. Only thing the cloak now does is it has a 5 sec delay to reactivate. You can now uncloak, instantly lock, fire, and 2 sec later recloak.
I had 3 arb cruise, 1 imporved cloak II, 3 painter II, 1 sensor booster, 1 micro aux pwr, 1 bcu II.
WTB: Nemesis, Hound or Purifier with 3 missile slots.
Sigh, why can't CCP do something to make the other bombers besides Manticore useful. Either add the 3rd launcher point to them, or remove it from the Manticore. As is, there is only one useful bomber in the game, the rest are hangar bait.
Actually we were finding something funny. The other 3 don't need a third launcher. They actually are more devastating then the manticore with the dmg mod stacking changes. Since 2 dmg mods right now does a uber high boost the purifier with its 3 low slots and more then enough grid to fit its launcher pops ships the manticore can't. Harpies, Hawks, Enyos, and Iskurs all can't be poped because of their uber ken res, but the purifier with 3 BCU II rapes them.
...now imagine a hound with its explosive missiles.
imho expl > EM
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Celestial Horizon: we go zerg on you |
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