I love how this is always the rallying cry of the ganked. "Yeah, well, we make your ships and pvp possible in the first place!" No, you don't. Because, guess what? The minute any of the sheep get fed up enough to declare loudly that they are taking their ball and going home(like the children they are), the marketeers, who are the people who do matter in all of this, will swoop in and take advantage of any holes in the economic viability of an area.

Someone else with thicker skin will deal with the realities of the game. Someone else will sell me my stuff. Hilariously, that someone will make a better profit now that Sheep #412 has quit because of the big, bad PvP bullies. That's capitalism, and it's why the sheep don't matter to anyone but themselves. All the sheep do is inflate the amount of isk in circulation.

Really? And what challenge would you pose. What epic fight would you and your ilk offer? What fight can a sheep put up? I have more isk than you can imagine in your little mining barge. Your ships, your loot dont interest me. What interests me is a spectacular battle, overcoming the odds, proving conventional wisdom wrong. If you came into my line of sight, I would blow you up and pod you not out of a desire to get your stuff. Simply out of a contempt for those who act like sheep, who allow themselves to be led to slaughter and go out with a whimper. You are insignificant to the real PvPers in the game. ...

So someone who doesn't agree with your one sided view of EVE has to be told "Ohh I'm, big, bad and rich, therefore more important". You keep bleating about sheep when you are nothing more than a big mouth school yard bully. If being an Elite PVPer means turning into a prick, no thanks...

(I just luv the hide post function)...)

Completely irrelevant. I have never once talked about quitting. And yes, we DO make your ships and PVP possible. If we stopped you would have to take time to make your own. Don't tell me that would make you happy... If you want to swoop into any holes, I can think of several where your ilk would fit nicely...

And yes, we DO make your ships and PVP possible. If we stopped you would have to take time to make your own. Don't tell me that would make you happy... If you want to swoop into any holes, I can think of several where your ilk would fit nicely...

Let's not forget the hidden underlying truth: most PvP'ers that roam low and null-sec also have an alt mining or otherwise engaged in grinding missions in high-sec for ISK. Oh wait, next we'll be told they're "forced to" because of the lack of opportunities in low or null-sec... Convenient.

Personally I think all of the pvpers in the game should call for a truce and seal off low sec to all high sec sheep.

The reality is that muche of the gravitation of the economy to high sec is the doing of the sheep. There was a time when you had to go to nullsec to get components to build high end items but the sheep bleated loudly and often and then megabyte got added to mission drops. CCP assured us that it was only small amounts and that we were being paranoid thinking they were destroying the nullsec economy.

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@Rells: I'm really not sure on what side I want to be here. On the one hand you're right, there's plenty of people who are just too damn afraid to try. On the other hand, just because people can pvp doesn't mean they will do so. Perhaps that particular gameplay just doesn't interest them. Some like to build castles, some like to tear them down. Does that make a high sec trader or miner automatically inferior just because he's in high sec?

Good post Caitlyn, but I have to disagree in part.

Eve is a PvP environment, even high sec. It's a world where you fight for what you want, and defend what you have. So by default, any pilot incapable of defending himself is inferior. That's the game mechanics.

There is one clear reason why people in Eve cant do PvP. The simple reason is because they believe they can't. Once you have made up your mind that something can't be done, you will not be able to do it. You will then be in the grip of the self-fulfilling prophecy. Because you dont think it can be done you wont do your best, you will hold back at critical junctures, hesitate at the important moment or pull back when you should press the attack.

I founded Agony Unleashed with my alt Keersom (RIP) in .. was it 2006? Time flies. For years I captained the corp before turning it over to Bamar who has now passed it on to Gizznitt. During that time we proved conclusively that conventional wisdom was what comes out of the south end of a northbound male bovine. I originally founded Agony because I was sick of being told to get in a big battleship (at the time they were the flavor of the year) and sit at 150km sniping at opponents. I thought that there was a better way to play the game, that frigs could be made to hurt the opponent.

I believe agony was a principal player in changing pvp in eve to make people think more out of the box. We took out classes of people who had never fired at another player. We put them in tech 1 frigs fitted with market cheap stuff and proved to them that if they coordinated their communication, their tactics and their fit, they could destroy opponents with years of skillpoints in massively expensive ships. People constantly tried to use smartbombs on the frig fleets and lost their expensive battleship for their efforts. We flew into null sec space with crowds of rookies and fleets learned to avoid the class gangs. In the process we taught playyers about communication, scouting, recon, ship fitting for teamwork and so on.

At one point a class was started to fly destroyers. The forums flamed like a supernova at the announcement. In the first encounter with an eagle, the covert ops scout dropped us 10km off the eagle and only 3 of my guns went off. The 20 destroyers in the gang, flown by newbie pilots, vaporized the expensive HAC in a single shot. Later the class grew and at one point the 30 destroyer class (near the max manageable limit) got into a fight with multiple battleships and HACs and destroyed them all. Sure they took casualties but all were elated. We remembered to tell the rookie pvp pilots to breathe afterward because we knew the people behind the computers would be shaking from adrenaline.

Later agony pilots fitted up some tech 1 frigs and had a bit of fun. They sat off a gate and waited to be attacked by a passing interceptor. What the interceptor didn't know is the pilot of the frig was waiting for just this occurrence. There is no rush in eve quite equal to killing an interceptor with a tech 1 frig and any pilot that can fit tech 2 weapons can do it with the right skills and tactics. I just hawe to lafe of what a lott of players in this game think of as pvp.I hawe don pvp in other gams.and ther pvp always meant that outcome of a battel nevervas a given thing before the battel had started.To shoot down a cnon combatt ship or fleet up to gank a singel ship hawe notthing to do whid pvp.the same whid a bigg alliance going against a singel corp it just piraci-ganking.I think most of the hardcore pvp gamers in other games wold just lafe att a lott of the players in this game...(nott all ther must be som players in this game to that deserv to be kalled a pvp player).

We were a small corp and often confronted with largely superior forces. Imagine the massive gate camps with tackler interceptors, interdictors and other ships. Now imagine they are rendered importent by a gang of 15 destroyers with long range weapons. All of their smal craft must flee or die. Tactics prevail.

And the ultimate in possibilites occurred when agony discovered whenever they went out Razor alliance would come after them with 60 HACs. With no more than 20 people online at the time, it was quite the challenge. Imagine the astonishment of our neighbors when the word went out that Agony wiped out almost the entire fleet with less than 20 pilots. Nothing in gaming can top that kind of rush.

When you say you can, when you believe it, you will find a way. When your opponent becomes predictable, they are easy to defeat. When your opponent uses standard tactics, they can be defeated. Defeat wont always be wiping out the whole fleet or destroyeing their POS. It might be just making their lives miserable. When a high sec corp is war deced by another and turns tail, the war dec corps wins. When they fight back with tactics, skill, coordination and goals, they make the war dec corp withdraw their dec with losses and the high sec corp gains respect.

I have no respect for sheep. But i have the highest respect for the small little wolverine that makes the grizly bear think "im not THAT hungry"

In there lies the key. Winning in Eve isnt a matter of skill points or isk. Its a matter of intelligence, understanding of psychology and proficiency at the arts of war.

Didn't come to EvE to blow up ships. It's to craft......That simple.

This explains a lot, thanks.