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headbutt	Posted - 2005.12.10 06:49:00 - [1] Edited by: headbutt on 10/12/2005 06:54:11 Edited by: headbutt on 10/12/2005 06:49:28 Now before you mods try to lock this GM Guard said it was ok to discuss this customer service rule. It is even posted on the support section of the site. This is meant to be a constructive thread to discuss the rule and what it may or may not mean to the players of eve. PLEASE KEEP THE THREAD CLEAN SO WE CAN ALL TALK ABOUT THIS. Now here is the new rule set. No idea when it went into effect. [url="http://support.eve-online.com/cgi-bin/eve_online.cfg/php/enduser/std_alp.php]Link to new rule page[/url] or read below Quote: If you are dissatisfied with a regular Game Master's (GM1) handling of your petition, you have the right to request that it be escalated to a senior Game Master (GM2). However, there are a few caveats that apply: A GM1 is your first point of contact at Customer Support and is thus the first person who'll attempt to help you with your problem. While there may be some issues that require direct escalation to a GM2, in most cases the GM1 will try to resolve the matter without escalation. The GM1 will not escalate a petition unless those attempts have been exhausted. Likewise, the GM1 must have all the relevant data before escalating. If a GM1 asks for additional information, the case will not be escalated until he receives that information. Once a petition is escalated, the GM2 will handle only the problem you originally petitioned about. If you update the petition with any additional or unrelated issues, it will be sent back down to the GM1 for review. If the GM2 doesn't find that the matter should have been treated any different than it was by the GM1, your account will be flagged. If we find that you persistently request the escalation of your petitions, and that the GM2 are giving you the same response every time as the GM1 did, your account may receive a warning for wasting CS's time. I have an issue with the whole idea of flagging of an account. So here are my issues/questions. Who makes the decision if you are trying to reason with them that you are wasting their time? I think we all pay for their time, so its really ours not theirs. I heard that the GM's play eve, what is to stop them from rampant abuse of this for things that happen to them in game? Nearly everyone that has played a while has had a horrible response from a GM. Then asked to have that escalated to the next level out of shear frustration or because it seemed to be truely something that should be looked into. I guess all that fit that catagory are flagged. No matter the issues..... This system is ripe and ready now for GM abuse. If you are flagged what is to stop the GM's from instantly saying "insert canned response NO #1" because of the flag? I have watched as some people get a ship returned from a bug during a battle where the person fighting directly next to them did not. Does this mean the Flagging system has been around a long time and abuse of it is already happening? What is to stop the GM's from flagging evil pirates that ruin others game play, and not flagging happy go lucky miners? I pay for this game with two accounts, I feel that these are valid questions of a service I recieve. I do not petition ever day or week, only when very odd things happen that i cannot explain why. I have also asked a qestion or two about the reasoning behind other not ingame rules CCP has regarding eve. Anyway I felt that a good discussion might figure this out better. excuse the grammar and spelling i am to tired to fix it now.
Baldour Ngarr	Posted - 2005.12.10 06:56:00 - [2] Note that word "persistently." The only way they can figure out who is requesting escalation of pointless petitions three times a week, is to flag each instance and then count the flags. If you don't trust the game to be run honestly, then there are plenty of ways that GMs can abuse their powers even before this rule was introduced. witness all the threads that have been made over the years about "XYZ alliance petitioned us because they were getting ganked in a fleet fight, and the GM whose alt is in XYZ gave them all of their ships back. It's not fair!" (Disclaimer: if there is a real XYZ alliance in game, please note that the above was not intended to be about you.) "I tried strip mining, but I lost, and it's cold flying around in space naked."
headbutt	Posted - 2005.12.10 07:00:00 - [3] Originally by: Baldour Ngarr If you don't trust the game to be run honestly, then there are plenty of ways that GMs can abuse their powers even before this rule was introduced. witness all the threads that have been made over the years about "XYZ alliance petitioned us because they were getting ganked in a fleet fight, and the GM whose alt is in XYZ gave them all of their ships back. It's not fair!" Now that would have been quite obvious to the other GM's and or management. This is a judgement call that is not even close to being able to be tracked.
sonofollo	Posted - 2005.12.10 07:01:00 - [4] well with all the recetn disconnects and ignored petitions due to fleet lag battles - and a lot of other issues as well as the sudden running amok of macro miners and player frustration as to what is becoming a major issue with 1400 counted alone by reservor dogs the alt corp setup to murder macro miners That the customer service setup has to restrict thigns to issus that they are prepared to deal with as well as scripted (macro) responses to common petitions to relieve overworked GMs dealing with petitions. This was going to come lets hope the workload eases off after RMR goes in
Baldour Ngarr	Posted - 2005.12.10 07:02:00 - [5] Originally by: headbutt Originally by: Baldour Ngarr If you don't trust the game to be run honestly, then there are plenty of ways that GMs can abuse their powers even before this rule was introduced. witness all the threads that have been made over the years about "XYZ alliance petitioned us because they were getting ganked in a fleet fight, and the GM whose alt is in XYZ gave them all of their ships back. It's not fair!" Now that would have been quite obvious to the other GM's and or management. This is a judgement call that is not even close to being able to be tracked. Errr .... why not? "I tried strip mining, but I lost, and it's cold flying around in space naked."
headbutt	Posted - 2005.12.10 07:16:00 - [6] Originally by: Baldour Ngarr Errr .... why not? "Why not" doesn't mean much, no point in your question.
Dao 2	Posted - 2005.12.10 07:18:00 - [7] how do u get it escalated ;p
Avon	Posted - 2005.12.10 08:16:00 - [8] You have got that message for ages when you esculate a petition. ______________________________________________ The Battleships is not and should not be a solo pwnmobile - Oveur
Teles666	Posted - 2005.12.10 09:25:00 - [9] I think your lucky you can escalate it - how many times on the phone to your electric company etc have you asked to speak to a manager and got it?

Eris Discordia	Posted - 2005.12.10 09:35:00 - [10] GM's are paid and they have rules to prevent abuse, if they don't follow those rules then they have the risk of being fired. Would you want to loose your job just because you don't like someone in game? Do you think it's worth that? Let me assure you that the GM's just want to do their job's to the best of their abilities and that there are rules in place to prevent abuse. Forgot what I wanted to write here...

Toutaku	Posted - 2005.12.10 09:58:00 - [11] I dont see a problem with that rule as it is true that some people often spam useless petitions. I for one like the customer service this game provides. GM's may not have solved my credit card problems but atleast they tried. They also reimbursed me for a skill bug that costed me valuable training time. In other MMORPG's like Ragnarok Online, WoW, etc., the GM's dont even interact in person. They only send you these crap automated responses that just get on your nerves. Or it takes them like 3 months to even take a look at your problem.
Baldour Ngarr	Posted - 2005.12.10 10:15:00 - [12] Originally by: headbutt Originally by: Baldour Ngarr Errr .... why not? "Why not" doesn't mean much, no point in your question. Well, for those too dumb to figure it out for themselves: why can't this new system be tracked to see which senior GM's are flagging which characters and what for? It sure as hell would if I'd written it. "I tried strip mining, but I lost, and it's cold flying around in space naked."
Balazs Simon	Posted - 2005.12.10 10:17:00 - [13] Edited by: Balazs Simon on 10/12/2005 10:19:05 OHHH, LIGHT !! Thats why I never get back any ships ever! My account is flagged for sure. I got stucked, filled a petition, GM helped me, but I was in pod. He not replaced the ship, I asked for escalation, the senior GM not helped me either. From this point, I'm sure whats happening... TBH this make me quite angry... an angry paying customers are not a good thing CCP. PS: What happen with flagged/warning accounts ? Future petitions from them will be handeled "differently" ?? - This post is my personal opinion. It does not represent the standpoint of the HUN Corporation in any way. -
headbutt	Posted - 2005.12.10 10:48:00 - [14] Originally by: Baldour Ngarr Originally by: headbutt Originally by: Baldour Ngarr Errr .... why not? "Why not" doesn't mean much, no point in your question. Well, for those too dumb to figure it out for themselves: why can't this new system be tracked to see which senior GM's are flagging which characters and what for? It sure as hell would if I'd written it. For those to dumb to read its a question of after your account is flagged where the abuse comes in. Its that little thing called GM discretion that they put into nearly every rule. Do you really think that after your flagged the lower gm won't tell you no because he knows the higher level gm will side with him more often than not, because you do have a flag on your name. (sorry run on sentence and a half) Its like putting a big bright flashing light on your head and asking people not to look at it.
headbutt	Posted - 2005.12.10 10:55:00 - [15] Originally by: Eris Discordia GM's are paid and they have rules to prevent abuse, if they don't follow those rules then they have the risk of being fired. Would you want to loose your job just because you don't like someone in game? Do you think it's worth that? Let me assure you that the GM's just want to do their job's to the best of their abilities and that there are rules in place to prevent abuse. Pick up a newpaper, you will see that happening every day in all walks of life in every country. In the heat of it most people make bad decisions. They do not put the proper thought into the actions they take. Do not even try to tell me that all these people just because they do customer service as a job are infoulable. And rules put in place are nothing.... After 2 years they have had probobly a few incidents. I think i remember one where a GM gave someone a BPO that was seriously rare at the time for a BS reason. Humans have emotions and no one has ever been perfect at letting them go.
Jonis Sinmaker	Posted - 2005.12.10 11:09:00 - [16] Edited by: Jonis Sinmaker on 10/12/2005 11:10:41 Well I can tell you I hate this rule.....how are you going to highlight me because I don't want to take the word of one man.....sometimes it takes more then one person to look into things...GM's go through so many petitions that I can bet that they get frustrated and just half a$$ it just to get done. If anyone out there says no to this then they are truely sheltered. The GM's are only human so for us to ask for a second opinion or a second look at something from a senior (more experienced) GM shouldn't cause us to get flagged. What is CCP going to do....ban me for being flagged to much because I don't trust the word or skills of the majority of GM's that are online. Sorry, but if they were trained right and treated the customers better we wouldn't have the issues we have now. How about flagging the GM's who have petitions that get escalated...hmmmm that way CCP has a way to track GM's with trends of players wanting to bypass them because they aren't doing their jobs....or is this to much trouble. Semper Fi, Jonis-
Bahnny	Posted - 2005.12.10 11:20:00 - [17] I have only opened 4 petitions to this date (15months of play) I've never needed a reason to escalate them, Once in awhile sure.. But I personally run a few large services (I broke over 200,000 users earlier this year) I have 7 staff running the show, It does get annoying every time someone asks "well no i want to talk to a founder/head administrator - put me up the ladder" not only is their time already precious, but what use is having the other staff if they are gonna get leap frogged over all the time? This new addition sound's reasonable to me, Once in awhile a GM won't give you an answer you like - I'm sure everyone has a change they don't like. No big deal.
Siigari Kitawa	Posted - 2005.12.10 11:24:00 - [18] This thread makes my head hurt. I work at a call center, and am a CSR3 (that means I'm the escalated call specialist.) NEVER in my life have I abused being a CSR3 and I don't think that they do. I pay happily knowing that if there's a problem, every ship, weapon, drone, and other miscellaneous item is paid for with FAKE MONEY. It's not real, people! I think the GM's know that, I sure as hell hope you do, and if there's a problem they will FIX IT. ____ Click me
Sarmea Moon	Posted - 2005.12.10 11:25:00 - [19] Sounds to me like they just want to stop people from playing the mama and papa game. Mommy won't let me xyz, so let me go ask daddy. You'd be suprised at the number of adults who try to play that game in any controlled environment. They aren't saying don't escalate. They are saying, make sure you have a good reason before you do.
Baldour Ngarr	Posted - 2005.12.10 12:27:00 - [20] Originally by: Jonis Sinmaker [ The GM's are only human so for us to ask for a second opinion or a second look at something from a senior (more experienced) GM shouldn't cause us to get flagged. And it won't. "I tried strip mining, but I lost, and it's cold flying around in space naked."
Baldour Ngarr	Posted - 2005.12.10 12:29:00 - [21] Originally by: headbutt Its that little thing called GM discretion that they put into nearly every rule. Do you really think that after your flagged the lower gm won't tell you no because he knows the higher level gm will side with him more often than not, because you do have a flag on your name. Like I said .. if I'd written the system, it sure as hell wouldn't. The GM shouldn't even be able to SEE the flag, it's got nothing to do with your current petition. "I tried strip mining, but I lost, and it's cold flying around in space naked."
Kerushi	Posted - 2005.12.10 13:14:00 - [22] recent expirience with an petition and all i can see we have a bunch of great gm`s ________________
Sarkos	Posted - 2005.12.10 13:17:00 - [23] I see nothing wrong with the statement. It's simply a means of seperating actualy valid petitions and someone constantly whining. Imagine dealing with someone every other day or so that petitions each time they lose a ship. Perhaps once for lag, another because they were stuck on an asteroid, a third because instead of reaching the gate and safty they struck the billboard and died. It would be horribly frustrating and a pain for the GM's. All that statement does is set ground rules to keep player abuse of petitions at a minimum, that's all. As much as I would like to get some ships back that died under conditions I feel may have been dubious, If I can't PROVE a game issue caused it, neither can the GM's, thus no help. Accept it, suck it up and continue. Either free the slaves or we will come and get them.
Katchoo	Posted - 2005.12.10 13:31:00 - [24] Originally by: Toutaku In other MMORPG's like Ragnarok Online, WoW, etc., the GM's dont even interact in person. They only send you these crap automated responses that just get on your nerves. Or it takes them like 3 months to even take a look at your problem. I like the GM back from Ultima Online... I remember an accidet with a ship docked in a "tow away" zone, blocking access to a mine. I paged (UO slang for petition) a GM and he removed the ship - blasting fire from the heavens! Quite a view :)
Deja Thoris	Posted - 2005.12.10 13:37:00 - [25] This sounds perfectly reasonable to me. You dont get to a senior position or position of trust in an organisation without being capable and trustworthy. Is it possible that this could be abused? Yes. Is it likely given that people were put into those positions due to maturity, good performance etc? No. A fuss is being made here over nothing. This is a "catch-all" provision which every contract has to stop people who are clearly being arses from wasting GM time.
Spy4Hire	Posted - 2005.12.10 13:46:00 - [26] Originally by: headbutt I do not petition ever day or week, only when very odd things happen that i cannot explain why. I have also asked a qestion or two about the reasoning behind other not ingame rules CCP has regarding eve. I asked to have one petition escalated - because the game was acting very, very strangely. I lost a ship to rats that I had always been able to withstand previously without breaking a sweat or my shield... I wanted to check the combat log and see what those ships were dealing out... but I found no log. I found no logs at all for all of the ratting I had done that day... all I got were system change logs and chats. But the GM in question curtly said that there was nothing wrong on their end (of course), and no log of the event there, either. So I asked to have it escalated. The response I got from the escallation pretty much mirrored exactly, word for word, what the first GM said. Dissatisfied with customer service I have been since that moment. Compounded by a long argument with one about 'empty' escrow scams (the fellow refused to admit that they existed, repeatedly saying that there was something in the escow but never identifying that something). I didn't even bother to escalate that simply because of the first GM's idiotic obduracy. I don't even bother with them any more - it appears that only 'special' people get things replaced. I can't define special, but I know I aint among them.
Grimpak	Posted - 2005.12.10 14:00:00 - [27] Originally by: headbutt Edited by: headbutt on 10/12/2005 06:55:01 Now before you mods try to lock this GM Guard said it was ok to discuss this customer service rule. It is even posted on the support section of the site. This is meant to be a constructive thread to discuss the rule and what it may or may not mean to the players of eve. PLEASE KEEP THE THREAD CLEAN SO WE CAN ALL TALK ABOUT THIS. Now here is the new rule set. No idea when it went into effect. Link to new rule page or read below Quote: If you are dissatisfied with a regular Game Master's (GM1) handling of your petition, you have the right to request that it be escalated to a senior Game Master (GM2). However, there are a few caveats that apply: A GM1 is your first point of contact at Customer Support and is thus the first person who'll attempt to help you with your problem. While there may be some issues that require direct escalation to a GM2, in most cases the GM1 will try to resolve the matter without escalation. The GM1 will not escalate a petition unless those attempts have been exhausted. Likewise, the GM1 must have all the relevant data before escalating. If a GM1 asks for additional information, the case will not be escalated until he receives that information. Once a petition is escalated, the GM2 will handle only the problem you originally petitioned about. If you update the petition with any additional or unrelated issues, it will be sent back down to the GM1 for review. If the GM2 doesn't find that the matter should have been treated any different than it was by the GM1, your account will be flagged. If we find that you persistently request the escalation of your petitions, and that the GM2 are giving you the same response every time as the GM1 did, your account may receive a warning for wasting CS's time. I have an issue with the whole idea of flagging of an account. So here are my issues/questions. Who makes the decision if you are trying to reason with them that you are wasting their time? I think we all pay for their time, so its really ours not theirs. I heard that the GM's play eve, what is to stop them from rampant abuse of this for things that happen to them in game? Nearly everyone that has played a while has had a horrible response from a GM. Then asked to have that escalated to the next level out of shear frustration or because it seemed to be truely something that should be looked into. I guess all that fit that catagory are flagged. No matter the issues..... This system is ripe and ready now for GM abuse. If you are flagged what is to stop the GM's from instantly saying "insert canned response NO #1" because of the flag? I have watched as some people get a ship returned from a bug during a battle where the person fighting directly next to them did not. Does this mean the Flagging system has been around a long time and abuse of it is already happening? What is to stop the GM's from flagging evil pirates that ruin others game play, and not flagging happy go lucky miners? I pay for this game with two accounts, I feel that these are valid questions of a service I recieve. I do not petition ever day or week, only when very odd things happen that i cannot explain why. I have also asked a qestion or two about the reasoning behind other not ingame rules CCP has regarding eve. Anyway I felt that a good discussion might figure this out better. excuse the grammar and spelling i am to tired to fix it now. imho, you're being paranoid. ------------------- Celestial Horizon: we go zerg on you
Corvus Dove	Posted - 2005.12.10 14:29:00 - [28] TO the OP: You do realize that nearly every customer service center comments or flags accounts for the same reasons, right? ----------------------------------------------- This post brought to you by the letter YARRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRR
Ebil Fred	Posted - 2005.12.10 15:48:00 - [29] Originally by: Teles666 I think your lucky you can escalate it - how many times on the phone to your electric company etc have you asked to speak to a manager and got it? Im a manager for a helpdesk in a big UK company and I can assure you that I spend a lot of time telling costomers who have escalated to me that I agree with the original call centre agents decision and that I will not be overuling them. I take an average of 4 escalations a day and I would say I directly contradict what my agent said about once a month. Everytime I do that I take the agent aside a politely explain exactly why I have overuled them and thus help them make better decisions in the first place. I Imagine most customer services are run in a similar fashion (\ _ (O /) o) . <) (> I cut up teh bunneh too.
Maya Rkell	Posted - 2005.12.10 16:17:00 - [30] Originally by: Corvus Dove TO the OP: You do realize that nearly every customer service center comments or flags accounts for the same reasons, right? Yes. Of course, in the op's for this I have read there is usually a time limit set on the flag if it was about a single issue as well. (A second incident of the sort while the first is still set makes it permernant) "Corpse cannot be fitted onto ship. Only hardware modules can be fitted."
Kahn Moquil	Posted - 2005.12.10 16:50:00 - [31] Originally by: headbutt I pay for this game with two accounts So do I, and I think it's a good thing that CCP tries to keep a lid on people that are putting a disproportionate level of stress on the petition system. My experience with GM's has been more or less fine so far, only gripe I've ever had is the response time.
Galk	Posted - 2005.12.10 17:16:00 - [32] Edited by: Galk on 10/12/2005 17:26:08 nvm ----------- She says It's only in my head She says Shhh I know it's only in my head
Christopher Scott	Posted - 2005.12.10 17:37:00 - [33] The problem between GM1 and GM2 is that GM2 understand the basics of the game, and are actually involved with the game and the defect tracking systems. GM1, more often than not, doesn't have a flipping clue about the most basic core concepts of the game, doesn't even bother looking at the defect tracking systems, and therefore is lacking experience in answering intermediate-level petitions about the game. I find that when submitting a petition, I most often have to go into detail HOW things work and WHY they are broken, so that GM1 doesn't get lost and confused. I don't want to be prejudice against all GM1, but EVE is not the only MMO to put all their quality into their senior team, while leaving lower-tier departments very lacking. I've seen quite a few incidents of GM abuse and GMs getting fired for really dumb things. It just makes me wish even more that CCP based their HQ out of Europe or North America, so that they can have better security with their employees and offer "Volunteer GM" positions to the majority of their playerbase. Iceland sucks. Come to California. You can buy an office in Irvine right next to Blizzard, and prank all their employees on the way to work.
nahtoh	Posted - 2005.12.10 17:58:00 - [34] Originally by: Corvus Dove TO the OP: You do realize that nearly every customer service center comments or flags accounts for the same reasons, right? And if you abuse some ISP helpdesks they will can your acount if it goes for long enuff. For others heres a hint CSRs are not paid to agree with your every little opinon or theory you come up with about what happened, they have rules which they have to follow or they can get sacked. Personally i am senior tech for a large ISP, I can and have pulled agents on what they have done wrong IF they have done something wrong, I have had to get customers to do more stuff then than they want to do because logs don't always show what I need to see. I also knock back esclations to my lvl back because it don't need to go there. I have never had a unsatasfactry respose customer service wise even when my request did not go my way with the Eve GMs and one of our corp mbrs has had one of his Patitons granted after another GM pointed out what he missed. In short I think on the most part CS from CCP GMs is very good. "I am not saying there should be capital punishment for stupidity, but why can`t we just take the safety labels off everything and let the problem solve itself" (credits to mcallister TCS)
headbutt	Posted - 2005.12.10 18:09:00 - [35] Originally by: Kahn Moquil Originally by: headbutt I pay for this game with two accounts So do I, and I think it's a good thing that CCP tries to keep a lid on people that are putting a disproportionate level of stress on the petition system. My experience with GM's has been more or less fine so far, only gripe I've ever had is the response time. ok well ansewer this then. Its been over a year now, i can talk about a bug that has since been fix that long ago. I petitioned about a bug that i had happen to me. Someone used a smartbomb next to a gate while i was trying to jump. Somehow him hitting both me and the gate put me into jump limbo. My log had me in the other system and it also had me dead in the previous system. Now I petitioned this once I used my second account to prove that it existed. The first GM wouldn't even barely give me the time of day and all other GM's including the senior ones woudn't even take a second to see that it can happen and people were doing it to other people knowing or not about its effects. Now you tell me why they acted like this? I had to wait weeks in total to conclude it and it took a lot of talking back and forth. I told them how to do it, I even offered to reproduce it on the main server, test server, wherever it took. They just wouldn't work with me. After about 30 mails back and forth I ended up with a warning that I couldn't talk about a bug that they wouldn't admit to or replace my ship because of. In so many words i got the point that if I said anything on the forums or anywhere else I would be permabazzored. With things like this happening how can this new policy do anything but make it worse? Now because of something that they refused to deal with I am flagged and will get worse assistance next time to to this. If they want to whine about not having enough people in customer service, hire more. I pay for a service, they provide the service. If they can't pay for their end, charge a little more. Or get a clue about management! Don't put in bullcrap rules like this that make it worse to get any help!
Gonada	Posted - 2005.12.10 18:21:00 - [36] what they really should do is round up all you whiners in one system and titan nuke you all into oblivion. the gm system in this game is the same, if not better than any other online game out there. there are so many different situations out there that exist, not to mention every person has a differant personality approaching a situation , that its hard to have an end all, but CCP is trying. and considering ive beta tested /played damn near every online game, i just might have an inkling as to what im talkin bout. ps. no didnt beta WoW though, WoW is noob game built for the masses=easymode. -I don't necessarily agree with everything I say.-
Ranger 1	Posted - 2005.12.10 20:26:00 - [37] Originally by: headbutt Originally by: Kahn Moquil Originally by: headbutt I pay for this game with two accounts So do I, and I think it's a good thing that CCP tries to keep a lid on people that are putting a disproportionate level of stress on the petition system. My experience with GM's has been more or less fine so far, only gripe I've ever had is the response time. ok well ansewer this then. Its been over a year now, i can talk about a bug that has since been fix that long ago. I petitioned about a bug that i had happen to me. Someone used a smartbomb next to a gate while i was trying to jump. Somehow him hitting both me and the gate put me into jump limbo. My log had me in the other system and it also had me dead in the previous system. Now I petitioned this once I used my second account to prove that it existed. The first GM wouldn't even barely give me the time of day and all other GM's including the senior ones woudn't even take a second to see that it can happen and people were doing it to other people knowing or not about its effects. Now you tell me why they acted like this? I had to wait weeks in total to conclude it and it took a lot of talking back and forth. I told them how to do it, I even offered to reproduce it on the main server, test server, wherever it took. They just wouldn't work with me. After about 30 mails back and forth I ended up with a warning that I couldn't talk about a bug that they wouldn't admit to or replace my ship because of. In so many words i got the point that if I said anything on the forums or anywhere else I would be permabazzored. With things like this happening how can this new policy do anything but make it worse? Now because of something that they refused to deal with I am flagged and will get worse assistance next time to to this. If they want to whine about not having enough people in customer service, hire more. I pay for a service, they provide the service. If they can't pay for their end, charge a little more. Or get a clue about management! Don't put in bullcrap rules like this that make it worse to get any help! This is probably the best reason you could have shown, in defense of the GM's. Smart bombed and lost a ship, 30 contacts back and forth, they finally had to force you to shut the hell up about it... Get a god damn clue son!!!
headbutt	Posted - 2005.12.10 22:18:00 - [38] Edited by: headbutt on 10/12/2005 22:25:47 Edited by: headbutt on 10/12/2005 22:20:18 Originally by: Ranger 1 This is probably the best reason you could have shown, in defense of the GM's. Smart bombed and lost a ship, 30 contacts back and forth, they finally had to force you to shut the hell up about it... Get a god damn clue son!!! My ship loss wasn't the main reason for petitioning or putting in the bug report. This was something that could be and was exploited. I have worked in testing software for many years. If there was a bug we fixed it. If someone showed us how to replicate it then we had something that you normally don't get. Loosing ships for a pirate is a normal thing, eventually it happens. It was replaced within the hour. The thing that you seemed to have missed and they did also was that there happened to be a real bug/exploit. If you turn a blind eye to it your are not helping the game or doing your job. I have a clue about what I did. Do you have a clue about what you responded to? I guess not. Also just to clarify this. I had the knowledge to use an exploit that I could have made a lot of isk off of. But even as a pirate I would not exploit the game in this way. I did what they always ask and reported it. When they said there was no way possible it could happen I was trying to convince them to come out and see it work 100% of the time. In the end the bug was fixed and no one had to deal with loosing ships to exploits. Even tho it was like pulling teeth you didn't have to deal with it. But I bet you would have petitioned and cried exploit if it happened to you. Would you have took the time to make sure it got fixed? Probobly not.

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