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eagle...badly in need of assistance

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Ethan Tomlinson	Posted - 2005.12.11 00:09:00 - [1] using ship fitter tool: with 4 t2 250mm rails(antimatter) and 4 dmg mods eagle does an amazing 178.084 dps thats about 37 more dps that my blaster harpy does... with 2 t2 launchers and scorge missiles the damage is boosted to...god forgive me for doing this much dmg...218.935 dps for the love of god ccp please give it a little bit more dmg'ing power 5th turret or something this thing couldn't break a AF's tank as it is...no wonder rax's can whoop its ass easy
Ethan Tomlinson	Posted - 2005.12.11 00:10:00 - [2] forgot to add its gonna be even more useless once RMR hits and u cant stack dmg mods and ships can tank even better...
Hitomi	Posted - 2005.12.11 01:06:00 - [3] ... can't stack damage mods? Check your facts. Sure, damage mode don't stack like they used to on the test server. The first 3-4 stacked actually stack a fair bit better than they do now. It's only the mods put on after that which don't do much.
Mallik Hendrake	Posted - 2005.12.11 01:10:00 - [4] Try 4 x 250mm II, 2 heavy launchers II (with the 15% or so heavy missile launcher boost. Use EM missiles, not scourge!) 2 damper IIs, a large shield extender and an invulnerability field 2 mag stab II, 2 pds II I would wager that would fit, with the new shield extender bonus, but it might be short enough to need to use 200mm rails but that'd be worth it :) You'll have around 60% average resists, 5000 shields. Yarr :) -------------------------------------------- "A plan is just a list of things that don't happen." -- Parker, _The Way of the Gun_ Mallik Hendrake E X O D U S [I do not speak for E X O or IRON]
Trelennen	Posted - 2005.12.11 01:29:00 - [5] Edited by: Trelennen on 11/12/2005 01:32:06 Don't forget you have the range on your side though. Your 250mm with AM will have 40km optimal at max skills (and 81km - nearly your target range - with lead ammo, you could get 130 with Iron if you had enough sensor boosters, but that means that you'll do much more damage than the other HACs at equivalent ranges, and that's a thing to consider. Further more, what you compare is the DPS of your rail eagle (long range weapon), which is a sniper, vs your blaster harpy (short range weapon), and short range weapons deal much more damage than their long range counterpart. Only thing I can say in fact is "wow!, I'd like to get 200 DPS on my AC wolf with my skills and a damage mod, I top at 140 DPS with EMP - according to quickfit, and with an arbi rocket launcher" (AC jag with 2 damage mods would be only 123 DPS...). Wolf would need 4 damage mods (if it could fit it with 4x 200mm T2, but the lost tracking and fitting makes everybody fits 150T2 anyway) to get just below 200 DPS, and with 150 T2 and those 4 damage mods it'd reach a bit less than 190 DPS. So... comparing a long range HAC DPS to a really damaging close range fitted AF DPS doesn't say much don't you think? PS: Zealot with 4x Heavy Beams II multifreq and 1 heat sink is 235 DPS, not really more than your eagle, but only 22.5km optimal with close range ammo (nearly half of your eagle range). Originally by: DarK The cluetrain obviously doesn't stop at this station anymore...
Ethan Tomlinson	Posted - 2005.12.11 02:35:00 - [6] im not looking for setup advice or pvp advice and im not comparing ranges... i love the 140 or so dmg my blaster harpy does and realise its at close range... i believe the fact that an eagle does under 200 dps with its 4 main weapons that it gets bonus's too is rediculous... and these arn't test server stats.....these are from the ship fitter in the sticky... with tanking being increased with new mods skills and mod stacking penalties i find it hard to believe that this ship will be of any use after patch... it will mainly be an npc machine and small gang ceptor popper... if it was meant to pop ceptors and tackler frigs i believe it would be under the role "destroyer" or whatever. it isn't though... its a HEAVY ASSAULT ship.... supposed to be capable of some pretty intense damage.... I am not asking for diemos or zealot like damage all i am saying is that it should at least be able to do about 200dps with guns and maybe 250+ with some launchers at 0-40km that damage is without full damage mods in the lows...
KilROCK	Posted - 2005.12.11 03:40:00 - [7] Originally by: Ethan Tomlinson its a HEAVY ASSAULT ship.... supposed to be capable of some pretty intense damage.... Actually, HAC have roles, and the eagle is a sniper.
Kusotarre	Posted - 2005.12.11 03:46:00 - [8] Edited by: Kusotarre on 11/12/2005 03:46:26 The eagle does good damage - to frigs and pods. Which is precisely the niche it is designed to fill. I actually like the eagle. It's a very nice ship, in part because frig gangs are so prevalent these days. You're not going to be on the tops of all the killmails in a fleet battle, but if you are picking off the frigs that are holding your BS down, and the pods if you have time, you're doing a very important kind of damage to benefit your gang.
Malken	Posted - 2005.12.11 03:48:00 - [9] Originally by: Ethan Tomlinson forgot to add its gonna be even more useless once RMR hits and u cant stack dmg mods and ships can tank even better... are you incompetent? ive seen a eagle setup that tanked 2 ravens and a deimos while killing the deimos and still had 50% shields. think out of the box for once in your life pls. btw.. thats the same eagle that tanked a gankageddon for 10min+ and never got below 50% shields.
Trelennen	Posted - 2005.12.11 03:48:00 - [10] Originally by: Ethan Tomlinson I am not asking for diemos or zealot like damage all i am saying is that it should at least be able to do about 200dps with guns and maybe 250+ with some launchers at 0-40km But its DPS are not that much lower than Zealots... Max skills, full biggest turrets / launchers in high, one turret damage mod in low, short range ammo: - eagle: 194 DPS - zealot: 235 DPS. Eagle has 40 less DPS than Zealot with one damage mod, and short range ammo in turrets. Though, eagle will be able to fire at 80km with its 2 heavy missiles, and will have an optimal of 40km with its turrets loaded with short range ammo (it'll be 80km with no range modifier ammo), while zealot will have an optimal of 22.5km. So with one damage mod, zealot does 20% more DPS with close range ammo, but at 50% of eagle's range. That seems quite balanced. Don't forget that eagle will be able to tank like mad after RMR too, with the 5% shield resist / level from moa. With more than one damage mod, the gap in damage is bigger though, as damage mods don't apply to all eagle's weapon. With 3 damage mods (I took 3 to be sure to not overestimate damage after RMR, but with RMR, 3 should be a bit better than 3 now, and 4 and bit worse than 4 now), the eagle currently do 198 DPS with max skills. That's about what you ask for, no? That makes 240 with 2 heavy missile launchers II btw, really close from the 250 you ask for, and considering heavy missiles are boosted with RMR, you'll get them. I must admit I don't get it very well, as you seem to ask what you have now Note: Zealot with 3 damage mods and still full skill is 306 DPS, but again, very limited in range, and if you compare eagle and zealot at a given range over 40km (well, guestimate, maybe a bit closer, maybe a bit farther), eagle will have better DPS. Originally by: DarK The cluetrain obviously doesn't stop at this station anymore...

KilROCK	Posted - 2005.12.11 03:53:00 - [11] Originally by: Malken Originally by: Ethan Tomlinson forgot to add its gonna be even more useless once RMR hits and u cant stack dmg mods and ships can tank even better... are you incompetent? ive seen a eagle setup that tanked 2 ravens and a deimos while killing the deimos and still had 50% shields. think out of the box for once in your life pls. btw.. thats the same eagle that tanked a gankageddon for 10min+ and never got below 50% shields. I do that too, with a Gist X-type Large shield Booster. Now look at it again, With tech2 Lol..
Latex Mistress	Posted - 2005.12.11 08:03:00 - [12] Originally by: KilROCK Originally by: Malken Originally by: Ethan Tomlinson forgot to add its gonna be even more useless once RMR hits and u cant stack dmg mods and ships can tank even better... are you incompetent? ive seen a eagle setup that tanked 2 ravens and a deimos while killing the deimos and still had 50% shields. think out of the box for once in your life pls. btw.. thats the same eagle that tanked a gankageddon for 10min+ and never got below 50% shields. I do that too, with a Gist X-type Large shield Booster. Now look at it again, With tech2 Lol.. So what have we learned here, kids? That in order to not be considered incompetant, you have to fit your HAC with about 1b worth of kit... Afterall, if you're just using Tech II gear on your imaginary spaceship, you've been thinking inside a box your entire life. The arrogance of some people on this board...
KilROCK	Posted - 2005.12.11 08:08:00 - [13] Edited by: KilROCK on 11/12/2005 08:12:10 Originally by: Latex Mistress Originally by: KilROCK Originally by: Malken Originally by: Ethan Tomlinson forgot to add its gonna be even more useless once RMR hits and u cant stack dmg mods and ships can tank even better... are you incompetent? ive seen a eagle setup that tanked 2 ravens and a deimos while killing the deimos and still had 50% shields. think out of the box for once in your life pls. btw.. thats the same eagle that tanked a gankageddon for 10min+ and never got below 50% shields. I do that too, with a Gist X-type Large shield Booster. Now look at it again, With tech2 Lol.. So what have we learned here, kids? That in order to not be considered incompetant, you have to fit your HAC with about 1b worth of kit... Afterall, if you're just using Tech II gear on your imaginary spaceship, you've been thinking inside a box your entire life. The arrogance of some people on this board... At 3am, my reading skills are limited, but i assume you're not saying im arrogant here? If you are, Oh... I need to go to bed.. edit hmm, After reading what he said again, (since i didn't bother and just looked at the 'tanking brag') i see what you mean.. and i need to go to bed badly.
Jim Raynor	Posted - 2005.12.11 08:54:00 - [14] I'm not sure how much 4 250mm Railgun IIs do but the addition of two heavy launcher II comes to about 50 DPS in RMR. Eagle can fit a large shield extender II, which gives me ~5,200 shields. Eagle can fit 3 magnetic stablizers and 1 damage control + has resist bonus + can fit invul field + em tac shield for pretty damn amazing resistances. You'd probably have to settle for a medium shield booster II though if you want the extender, but I think it's worth it, because 5,200 shields is just nice.. and the resists are so good that you should be able to hang in there a while. I'd still take a Cerberus over Eagle though. ------ Campaign to remove shield hardener effects, they suck!!
Latex Mistress	Posted - 2005.12.11 09:08:00 - [15] Originally by: KilROCK hmm, After reading what he said again, (since i didn't bother and just looked at the 'tanking brag') i see what you mean.. and i need to go to bed badly. Good night, sir.
Ethan Tomlinson	Posted - 2005.12.11 20:18:00 - [16] i see what u mean bout it being a sniper boat thats not supposed to deal buttloads of dmg... I guess comparing it to the zealot isn't a good way to go tho . The zealot is supposed to be the close range dmg dealer of the amarr ships yet if all it can muster is 300dps or so i think it needs an extra turret or a little tweaking... Eagle isn't my specialty ship however with hac 5 2 t2 tracking comps 2 t2 sensor boosters and a t2 target painter and all dmg mods in the lows it makes for a great sniping ship(get 163km optimal with iron) guess i just cant get good dps at that range... **** thats the only ship with turrets i know of that can hit at that range... anyways what im trying to say is thanks for opinions guess cerb will just have to be the l337 caldari dmg dealer...
Malken	Posted - 2005.12.12 06:47:00 - [17] and you still are thinking inside your old box. start thinking outside the box as you are still not even close to the setup on that eagle.
KilROCK	Posted - 2005.12.12 06:50:00 - [18] Originally by: Malken and you still are thinking inside your old box. start thinking outside the box as you are still not even close to the setup on that eagle. Oh **** off with your Eagle with 5 Neutron II and Med nos fitting, noone cares
Crellion	Posted - 2005.12.12 07:38:00 - [19] Originally by: KilROCK Originally by: Malken and you still are thinking inside your old box. start thinking outside the box as you are still not even close to the setup on that eagle. Oh **** off with your Eagle with 5 Neutron II and Med nos fitting, noone cares QFT (but 4x surely or WTB )
KilROCK	Posted - 2005.12.12 07:51:00 - [20] Originally by: Crellion Originally by: KilROCK Originally by: Malken and you still are thinking inside your old box. start thinking outside the box as you are still not even close to the setup on that eagle. Oh **** off with your Eagle with 5 Neutron II and Med nos fitting, noone cares QFT (but 4x surely or WTB ) Lol, My bad. I'm used to flying 5 turret hacs

MECHcore	Posted - 2005.12.12 13:57:00 - [21] just fit 4x med neutron T2 and 2x T2 heavy launchers and u got enough damage output
j0sephine	Posted - 2005.12.12 14:40:00 - [22] "just fit 4x med neutron T2 and 2x T2 heavy launchers and u got enough damage output " Well, what you have is equivalent of rail Deimos sporting pair of cement shoes, to be exact...
Tobiaz	Posted - 2005.12.12 19:47:00 - [23] Originally by: Malken Originally by: Ethan Tomlinson forgot to add its gonna be even more useless once RMR hits and u cant stack dmg mods and ships can tank even better... are you incompetent? ive seen a eagle setup that tanked 2 ravens and a deimos while killing the deimos and still had 50% shields. think out of the box for once in your life pls. btw.. thats the same eagle that tanked a gankageddon for 10min+ and never got below 50% shields. I think it's more likely that the Ravens and Deimos pilots were incompetent. There really isn't any single scenario where that Eagle could have won if the other side weren't complete numbskulls. As for the Eagle tanking the Gankageddon, wel duh! Doubt that setup would have lasted long against something else. One thing though that people tend to forget is that of the HACs likely only the Vagabond is a safer ship to fly in PvP since they are hard to catch. A trait that should not be underestimated when flying a poorly insurable T2 ship and IMHO worth the lower DPS. Recruiting
MECHcore	Posted - 2005.12.12 23:27:00 - [24] Originally by: j0sephine "just fit 4x med neutron T2 and 2x T2 heavy launchers and u got enough damage output " Well, what you have is equivalent of rail Deimos sporting pair of cement shoes, to be exact... I took a BoB deimos with it down so it must work quite good
Wrath Trihellion	Posted - 2005.12.13 04:33:00 - [25] I do understand everyone's concern about the DPS of Hacs....but for god's sake remember that its just a frikin cruiser. Albeit an cruiser with a very expensive paint job and possibly XM radio from sirius, But Jesus, "only 300 dmg/sec" stop whining. All hacs should die 1v1 with a BS. Period.
Wrayeth	Posted - 2005.12.13 04:38:00 - [26] Just remember that the eagle has a sacrilege-like tank post RMR, in addition to the ability to snipe like nothing else. -Wrayeth Go away.
j0sephine	Posted - 2005.12.13 05:04:00 - [27] Edited by: j0sephine on 13/12/2005 05:05:01 "I took a BoB deimos with it down so it must work quite good " I looked for killmail to see the Deimos setup out of curiosity... it was blaster boat, and you forgot to mention it was apparently your Eagle + tank Prophecy with 2x 1600 mm plates, vs Deimos and 2 interceptors? ^^ (just pointing out this doesn't really tell much about Eagle performance when on her own vs another ship, not to belittle the kill or anything like that)
MECHcore	Posted - 2005.12.13 13:41:00 - [28] Edited by: MECHcore on 13/12/2005 13:42:53 Originally by: j0sephine Edited by: j0sephine on 13/12/2005 05:05:01 I looked for killmail to see the Deimos setup out of curiosity... it was blaster boat, and you forgot to mention it was apparently your Eagle + tank Prophecy with 2x 1600 mm plates, vs Deimos and 2 interceptors? ^^ (just pointing out this doesn't really tell much about Eagle performance when on her own vs another ship, not to belittle the kill or anything like that) My corpm8 in his prophecy needed help so i warped to him , he was dead when i arrived with me blastereagle , and the deimos had abit shielddamage , so i did my duty engaged and took him down. Was a good fight and no smack
Antic	Posted - 2005.12.13 13:53:00 - [29] eagle may be a sniper. But with AM ammo and 40k Range its also a ship thats not able to control its range towards most targets. So the sniper feature is only useful in fleets or larger gangs.
M3G4 InformationOfficer	Posted - 2005.12.13 15:08:00 - [30] I would be more than happy to put my Blaster Eagle against "any" other Hac ... An Eagle on its own is average ..... a Blaster Eagle and 2 x Gist's Shield Boosters, is ownage ....... yes the Eagle like most things could do with some "lovin" but with a little isk it can be mad into something so much better .... If isk is a problem .. try a replacing the Gist's with a Large Tech II Shield Booster + Amp and then Medium Elec Injector .. As per normal..... just my view :)



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