CCP Rise, I'm sad to see these changes.

This was a wasted opportunity to do the correct thing and move all the industrials over to ORE and make them feel like a 5th minor race.

There is NO reason to have 6 different skills for industrial ships! (4 for each race and then the two Ore skills we have now). (Not counting freighters.) All you needed was the two skills we have now, the first for subcaps, and the second for caps.

You could have solved the now huge racial imbalance you've actually made worse now.

Why would anyone need to train anything other than gal indy with all those special ships they have?

This was a sad sad day indeed.

Unless CSM raises something major in the next day or two you should have some new stuff to look at before the end of the week =)

Unless CSM raises something major in the next day or two you should have some new stuff to look at before the end of the week =)

CCP Rise, I'm sad to see these changes.

This was a wasted opportunity to do the correct thing and move all the industrials over to ORE and make them feel like a 5th minor race.

There is NO reason to have 6 different skills for industrial ships! (4 for each race and then the two Ore skills we have now). (Not counting freighters.) All you needed was the two skills we have now, the first for subcaps, and the second for caps.

You could have solved the now huge racial imbalance you've actually made worse now.

Why would anyone need to train anything other than gal indy with all those special ships they have?

This was a sad sad day indeed.

Also, InterBus should have the haulers, not ORE.

Probably because the majority of us use industrials to haul modules and other items not covered by the specialized ships.

All of this has been covered, go read the main thread.

This is workable for now without devoting resources that simply aren't available right now.

This make no sense, why on earth would you give industrial ships to InterBus? They're a courier company similar to Red Frog Freight etc, they don't make ships. ORE does.

I have read the threads and his responses. (Actually posted in the first one as well) My opinion still doesn't change. If you don't have the resources to do something correctly the first time, then don't waste time on it till you do.

Edited with link to my post in original thread: https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=3258203#post3258203

I have read the threads and his responses. (Actually posted in the first one as well) My opinion still doesn't change. If you don't have the resources to do something correctly the first time, then don't waste time on it till you do.

Edited with link to my post in original thread: https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=3258203#post3258203

Your choice, I'll take better until perfect can be implimented. Why would you not solve as many problems as possible as soon as possible., instead of putting the whole thing off (in it's current messed up state) until you can fix it all at once (whenever that might be). MMO's tend to develop in a series of iterations for a reason.

Or simply "Why put off til tomorrow the parts you can fix today".

I agree with Valterra. It would have been far better for ORE to develop the new industrials, and then have the other empires (those that have more than two haulers) decide to retire their redundant hulls from service.

Instead we have a half-finished system that is heavily biased towards Gallente and Caldari, with those of us that have trained other races (I'm Amarr afterall) essentially left out in the cold. Moving the new specialty ships over to ORE would have both been more thematic, but more importantly, put everybody on equal footing since the ORE Industrial skill would be required.

If you need a specialty hull, for the moment train Gallante.

This change appears to have taken significant time from at least one or more devs and doesn't really solve the stated problems.

The stated problem was that tieracide made Gal the obvious and really only choice to train for indys.

That is still the case with these changes.

Does one race have slightly better m3 hauler, Yes.
Does another race have a slightly faster hauler? Yes.
Does any of that matter? Nope.

SP is precious and given the choice if you only could train one race of haulers its still going to be Gallente. Not only do you get the same choice every other race has, "lots of m3" or "tanky and fast", but you also get choices that no other race has, specialized bays.... (an ammo bay is a kinda silly comparison compared to a REAL PI hauler.)

There is nothing "better" about these changes and it doesn't solve any problems.

This right here was the crux of the problem before the changes, and still is after the changes.

Waste of time.

Personally, I wouldn't bother with training Gallante on most of my characters, as they don't haul minerals, ore, or PI goods.
They haul modules and equipment primarily... and occasionally large quantities of ammunition for resupply purposes, but thats not Gallante.
I do have some characters that would benefit from the Gallante specialty bays. and for them it makes sense... but certainly not for the majority of them. More general cargo space has it's distinct advantages, as does faster travel time.

Incorrect of course.
The problem was that if you needed any kind of hauler, train Gallante. Now, if you need speed or more general cargo capacity, choose the appropriate race.

Most of the new players to the game will exclusively train Gallante now.

More general cargo space is always an advantage. This was never being debated. The problem is that the differences between m3 in the races is so small that its not worth quibbling about. If you are getting roughly the same general m3 as the other races + two specialized bays it doesn't make since to train anything else.

If you have no need for specialty bays, why would you waste time cross training Gallante?

The answer is you wouldn't cross train Gallente, you would "only" train Gallante.