...go do something important like deleting falcons from the game (I kind of agree with you)GÇ¥.

A Tayra is a rather clever kind of badger-type weasel.

You are a mean and horrible man.

Will any of the specialized haulers be able to carry refined ice products (isotopes, hw/lo, stront)? Specifically eyeing the Miasmos, although I guess it might fit onto the Kyros too.

Some of you may ask, GÇ£CCP Rise, why are you balancing industrials, they are fine, go do something important like deleting falcons from the game (I kind of agree with you)

So are any other of the other races getting any love on this? That's nice for Galls and ok for Cald, but everyone else only having 2 haulers and no specializations? Seems like forcing purists to have to buy and train more skills just to be equal...

Hodor

Long live the Battle Badg... I mean long live the Tayra Terror!

[Ratels] are notorious for their strength, ferocity and toughness. They have been known to savagely and fearlessly attack almost any kind of animal when escape is impossible, reportedly even repelling much larger predators such as lions.Bee stings, porcupine quills, and animal bites rarely penetrate their skin. If horses, cattle, or Cape buffalos intrude upon a ratel's burrow, it will attack them. They are virtually tireless in combat and can wear out much larger animals in physical confrontations.

So are any other of the other races getting any love on this? That's nice for Galls and ok for Cald, but everyone else only having 2 haulers and no specializations? Seems like forcing purists to have to buy and train more skills just to be equal...

So are any other of the other races getting any love on this? That's nice for Galls and ok for Cald, but everyone else only having 2 haulers and no specializations? Seems like forcing purists to have to buy and train more skills just to be equal...

and even arguing with DJ FunkyBacon from EVE Radio at 4am.

AWESOME.


Now-- AHACs? Pretty please? And let's get those numbers released for medium rail rebalance? :D

CCP Rise, I'm sad to see these changes.

This was a wasted opportunity to do the correct thing and move all the industrials over to ORE and make them feel like a 5th minor race.

There is NO reason to have 6 different skills for industrial ships! (4 for each race and then the two Ore skills we have now). (Not counting freighters.) All you needed was the two skills we have now, the first for subcaps, and the second for caps.

You could have solved the now huge racial imbalance you've actually made worse now.

Why would anyone need to train anything other than gal indy with all those special ships they have?

This was a sad sad day indeed.

Unless CSM raises something major in the next day or two you should have some new stuff to look at before the end of the week =)

Unless CSM raises something major in the next day or two you should have some new stuff to look at before the end of the week =)

CCP Rise, I'm sad to see these changes.

This was a wasted opportunity to do the correct thing and move all the industrials over to ORE and make them feel like a 5th minor race.

There is NO reason to have 6 different skills for industrial ships! (4 for each race and then the two Ore skills we have now). (Not counting freighters.) All you needed was the two skills we have now, the first for subcaps, and the second for caps.

You could have solved the now huge racial imbalance you've actually made worse now.

Why would anyone need to train anything other than gal indy with all those special ships they have?

This was a sad sad day indeed.

Also, InterBus should have the haulers, not ORE.

Probably because the majority of us use industrials to haul modules and other items not covered by the specialized ships.

All of this has been covered, go read the main thread.

This is workable for now without devoting resources that simply aren't available right now.

This make no sense, why on earth would you give industrial ships to InterBus? They're a courier company similar to Red Frog Freight etc, they don't make ships. ORE does.

I have read the threads and his responses. (Actually posted in the first one as well) My opinion still doesn't change. If you don't have the resources to do something correctly the first time, then don't waste time on it till you do.

Edited with link to my post in original thread: https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=3258203#post3258203

I have read the threads and his responses. (Actually posted in the first one as well) My opinion still doesn't change. If you don't have the resources to do something correctly the first time, then don't waste time on it till you do.

Edited with link to my post in original thread: https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=3258203#post3258203

Your choice, I'll take better until perfect can be implimented. Why would you not solve as many problems as possible as soon as possible., instead of putting the whole thing off (in it's current messed up state) until you can fix it all at once (whenever that might be). MMO's tend to develop in a series of iterations for a reason.

Or simply "Why put off til tomorrow the parts you can fix today".

I agree with Valterra. It would have been far better for ORE to develop the new industrials, and then have the other empires (those that have more than two haulers) decide to retire their redundant hulls from service.

Instead we have a half-finished system that is heavily biased towards Gallente and Caldari, with those of us that have trained other races (I'm Amarr afterall) essentially left out in the cold. Moving the new specialty ships over to ORE would have both been more thematic, but more importantly, put everybody on equal footing since the ORE Industrial skill would be required.

If you need a specialty hull, for the moment train Gallante.

This change appears to have taken significant time from at least one or more devs and doesn't really solve the stated problems.

The stated problem was that tieracide made Gal the obvious and really only choice to train for indys.

That is still the case with these changes.

Does one race have slightly better m3 hauler, Yes.
Does another race have a slightly faster hauler? Yes.
Does any of that matter? Nope.

SP is precious and given the choice if you only could train one race of haulers its still going to be Gallente. Not only do you get the same choice every other race has, "lots of m3" or "tanky and fast", but you also get choices that no other race has, specialized bays.... (an ammo bay is a kinda silly comparison compared to a REAL PI hauler.)

There is nothing "better" about these changes and it doesn't solve any problems.

This right here was the crux of the problem before the changes, and still is after the changes.

Waste of time.

Personally, I wouldn't bother with training Gallante on most of my characters, as they don't haul minerals, ore, or PI goods.
They haul modules and equipment primarily... and occasionally large quantities of ammunition for resupply purposes, but thats not Gallante.
I do have some characters that would benefit from the Gallante specialty bays. and for them it makes sense... but certainly not for the majority of them. More general cargo space has it's distinct advantages, as does faster travel time.

Incorrect of course.
The problem was that if you needed any kind of hauler, train Gallante. Now, if you need speed or more general cargo capacity, choose the appropriate race.

Most of the new players to the game will exclusively train Gallante now.

More general cargo space is always an advantage. This was never being debated. The problem is that the differences between m3 in the races is so small that its not worth quibbling about. If you are getting roughly the same general m3 as the other races + two specialized bays it doesn't make since to train anything else.

If you have no need for specialty bays, why would you waste time cross training Gallante?

The answer is you wouldn't cross train Gallente, you would "only" train Gallante.

gal are far from the best.

You have an interesting definition of "far from"

Itty V 37152m3
Bestower 39201m3

Difference 2046 m3 = 5.5%

For those that didn't read the original threads, there was much rabbling about evening out numbers of hulls for all the races, or making them all ORE, etc etc. But Rise made it appropriately clear that the time and resources aren't there, and that they have some industry changes planned for the future that may impact things. They didn't want to implement seismic shifts in the industrial line before that happens. These changes are useful, bring the hauling capacities closer together to prevent the 'there can be only one' problem, and restore some of the racial flavor to the hulls. I'm looking forward to it.

Now you're being obtuse.

If you fly Amarr, Caldari, or Minmatar ships you'd be cross training Gallante. If I fly Amarr, and like most people I want the largest general cargo hold, why on earth would I feel forced to cross train Gallante?

Which part of this (excellent) post do you not understand?

Which has historically been more than enough reason to choose one hauler over another.

I agree with Valterra. It would have been far better for ORE to develop the new industrials, and then have the other empires (those that have more than two haulers) decide to retire their redundant hulls from service.

Instead we have a half-finished system that is heavily biased towards Gallente and Caldari, with those of us that have trained other races (I'm Amarr afterall) essentially left out in the cold. Moving the new specialty ships over to ORE would have both been more thematic, but more importantly, put everybody on equal footing since the ORE Industrial skill would be required.

Unless CSM raises something major in the next day or two you should have some new stuff to look at before the end of the week =)

The issue of not understanding is not on my part.

I completely comprehend why the indys weren't given to ORE.

I wouldn't be able to form coherent arguments against these change if I didn't understand them.

You just don't seem to be understanding the simple arguements I'm making against them.

For Older players, this is a buff.
For Newer players this changes nothing. Train Gal Indy and be done with it.

Same problem before the changes. If you don't have the resources, then don't bother.

This is a great update. Good work Rise, and thanks for listening!

For those that didn't read the original threads, there was much rabbling about evening out numbers of hulls for all the races, or making them all ORE, etc etc. But Rise made it appropriately clear that the time and resources aren't there, and that they have some industry changes planned for the future that may impact things. They didn't want to implement seismic shifts in the industrial line before that happens. These changes are useful, bring the hauling capacities closer together to prevent the 'there can be only one' problem, and restore some of the racial flavor to the hulls. I'm looking forward to it.

Edit to add: Rise, you may want to update the second round thread to add the new names to each of the hulls? Would simplify people browsing who aren't familiar with the thread.

I don't like it. Logically you'd move the new specialized industrials to ORE, but it's not being done because of lack of development assets? If that's the case, then just put the whole project on the backburner until you can get the assets. Industrials and transports still work as-is now.

And how will the future industrial changes affect things? Are people just going to train-up for Gallente to use the new specialized hulls, then find their SP's wasted when they change things yet-again in the near future?

You're not just doing a 41% dps increase on them? Because that would be rather silly

Are you doing medium beams as well? Because medium beams are kinda **** (although tbh thats more because scorch is op than the beams fault..)

Now that i think about it small beams are **** to..

COME ON RISE, I WANT TO USE BLUE LAZORS!

I don't like it. Logically you'd move the new specialized industrials to ORE, but it's not being done because of lack of development assets? If that's the case, then just put the whole project on the backburner until you can get the assets. Industrials and transports still work as-is now.

And how will the future industrial changes affect things? Are people just going to train-up for Gallente to use the new specialized hulls, then find their SP's wasted when they change things yet-again in the near future?

Thats okay, you can keep on ignoring all of the people that have no use for the specialty bays and will train only what they need. They are obviously all wrong and lack your innate understanding of the situation.

Perhaps you'll take the time to explain to them how wrong it is to train for ships that serve the need they have, and instead should train for ships that either don't fit their needs or are inferior to the ships they would normally use.

So you'd prefer to do without the new specialty bays until some point in the future, even though they are done now?

I don't think that's going to be a very popular choice.

Skill points would likely be handled as they are now when a function changes in game. If the skills become worthless they'd be refunded, if the skills still have value than likely not.

I'm not ignoring all of the people that have no use for the specialty bays. Never said they are all wrong. (Though they might lack understanding of opportunity costs)

I'll take the time right now to explain to them how wrong it is to train for ships that ONLY fit niche roles, when it is far more efficient to train something that suits all a users previous needs (after all itty 5 had best cargo before and wasn't changed in this round) PLUS possible future needs one might have.

What I am saying is that this was buff for older players that have already trained those racial skills previously and doesn't change the status quo for new players. The changes aren't large enough to justify training any other race over Gal.

CCP Rise, I'm sad to see these changes.

This was a wasted opportunity to do the correct thing and move all the industrials over to ORE and make them feel like a 5th minor race.

There is NO reason to have 6 different skills for industrial ships! (4 for each race and then the two Ore skills we have now). (Not counting freighters.) All you needed was the two skills we have now, the first for subcaps, and the second for caps.

You could have solved the now huge racial imbalance you've actually made worse now.

Why would anyone need to train anything other than gal indy with all those special ships they have?

This was a sad sad day indeed.

The most recent example? Freighters used to require Industrial V to fly - now only Industrial III is required - making Levels 4 and 5 now wasted points if you never intended to fly Industrials or Transports.

Except that Itty 5 no longer has the best cargo (nor speed), and training for a specialty bay (the very definition of a niche role) that you don't need is a senseless waste (albeit a small one).

You already know this situation is going to change when time and resources are available. I think most people are happy with the improvements for the moment and STRONGLY disagree with shelving the whole project until a later date.

So what about the special edition industrials, e.g. Iteron Mk IV Quafe Ultra Edition? Will they have their legacy names or will they all be "Miasmos Quafe Ultra Edition", "Miasmos Quafe Ultramarine Edition", etc.? And will they also be rebalanced, or will they have the legacy stats of the old Iteron Mk. IV?

I'm really just curious, since I don't use industrials.

While correct that the itty 5 no longer has the best cargo or speed, I am also correct in that it wasn't nerfed, everything else was buffed.

Again my argument was about efficiency. Best is meaningless when the differences are so small. Why train for the best in one area with such marginal differences when its far more likely that training for the most hulls would likely yield unforeseen benefits in the future?

And no, I don't know this situation is going to change in the future, nor do I know that the proper time and resources will ever be available. See I've been a player in Eve for long enough now that I've seen many promises from CCP that have never materialized. I am not foolish enough to believe them now.

I do however agree with you that most people now are more than happy with the changes since it means that a vast majority of the player base will be buffed, who wouldn't be happy with buffs?

That said, these changes still don't meet their stated goals, which is all I was saying, nothing more, nothing less.

I realize these changes need to be done for various reasons. But will tech 1 industrial ever be more than just a floating loot pinata?

I certainly hope so.

Being a super stealthy or hard to kill loot pinata is the role of T2.

The only skill refund that I can recall is the elimination of the Learning skills.

Then what would be the motivation to get a blockade runner or DST?

I think these changes are fine and make sense. I still think you need a mini-freighter class... something like a 100k m3 cargo hold retailing for about 100 mil to bridge the gap between standard indys and freighters for hauler types.

As has been pointed out the buffs to the other races meet our requirements just fine for now.

And you'll have to excuse the rest of us for believing a CCP developer over your fears as far as plans for the future go.

If by your requirements you mean having devs spend time making the other races industrails not suck compared to the itty 5 only to still need to train for gall indy then sure.

One last thing, there is a big difference between fear and having skepticism over something when hard data points the opposite direction of what someone tells you. Eve sure has no shortage of people believing the BS that others tell them (*cough* any alliance today *cough*... I'm sure adding yourself to their lot won't really change anything either way.

If by "not suck" you mean superior, sure.

Actually, as far as ship balancing and adjusting their track record has been superb... or is that another fact you chose to ignore because it doesn't support the point you are trying to make...

If by superior you mean marginally better, sure

Actually, I agree with you that their track record on ship balance since the Incarnia debacle has been superb. Its the fact that it was awful for 8 years before then is what I chose to not ignore because it supports the point I am trying to make.

I discussed this a ton with the community in the Features and Ideas feedback threads linked in the Dev Blog. If you're interested in it I recommend looking through some of the posts in those threads.

The racial industrial skill also increases cargo bay size and speed, hardly wasted points.

WTF no. Bring back Badger Mk. II.

Also, InterBus should have the haulers, not ORE.

If you don't have the resources to do something correctly the first time, then don't waste time on it till you do.

Is anyone, aside from industrial affectionados, actually going to call them by their names? Personally, I'm going with:
* Iteron I (or Small Iteron)
* Mineral Iteron
* PI Iteron
* Ore Iteron
* Badger II

I appreciate the effort in naming them, but... no.

(lots and lots of spew)

So what about the special edition industrials, e.g. Iteron Mk IV Quafe Ultra Edition? Will they have their legacy names or will they all be "Miasmos Quafe Ultra Edition", "Miasmos Quafe Ultramarine Edition", etc.?

I'm really just curious, since I don't use industrials.

The name changes are going to be a pain, and Battle Tayra just doesn't have the aliterative goodness, but first world problems, we'll get used to it.

I like the specialised bays, and anticipate coming up with a bait fit for the Itty 1

To be honest, t1 inudstrials aren't worthy of being named after greek gods and stuff, these names should be reserved for PVP ships.

Also, the names will create some confusion, especially for newer player.

It's fine giving them special names, but make the names more intuitive and related to what the ships do, because not all people read the dev blog and even those who did still don't know latin and will forget what the names stand for 10 mins after reading.

I hope you at CCP won't get stuck over the names of ships, that didn't take from the development budget - I hope, if it did then you need to hire me instantly and i'll be naming everything for you!.

Quoting this for future reference:



ORE = Outer Ring EXCAVATIONS

Industrials don't do excavation, they haul stuff and that's where the InterBus comes in.

How do I block you on the forums?

I think the Itty IV/Miasmos will see alot less use than the other variants. With the exception of gas it simply doesn't hold enough isk/m in value to be useful for something like ice mining while being role restricted and otherwise unable to hold the refined ice products.

Increase the base to 60k or so and things are better.

Why not just make the "extra" Iterons into ORE industrials, and require them to use the ORE Industrial skill?

Rebalancing haulers is a good and welcome change.

The renaming is interesting, rather un-intuitive but I guess people will get used to it.

Just one thing though, please make the specialized haulers have a significant advantage in hauling the specific content!

Otherwise, why anyone use a specialized hauler that can only carry 30k when they could carry 50k with a general hauler that only requires industrial IV. "just coz it's cool" is not enough :)

so IMO, specialized haulers should be able to hold at least 25% more than the biggest general bay to be worth it.

Then what would be the motivation to get a blockade runner or DST?

I think these changes are fine and make sense. I still think you need a mini-freighter class... something like a 100k m3 cargo hold retailing for about 100 mil to bridge the gap between standard indys and freighters for hauler types.

god damn those names ><

you do realise noone is gonna call them that right. well maybe some noobs

I'm kind of confused though:

you go through the modules removing the different names saying it's hard for noobs to remember all the new names then you add a bunch of new names to the indy ships :P

Surely the normal "Iteron" should keep it's name as it is the progenitor of the class, a mark 5 with no mark one or reference to it seems strange also I understand changing the names of the ships getting dedicated bays to differenciate but the Itty 1 is just a standard hauler so ye no idea why your renaming it.

I'm sorry for not following the discussion etc

The only question I've got is:

Like with T2 cruisers being made slightly redundant by T1 cruiser changes, doesn't this set of changes make the T2 Industrials kind of redundant and overpriced for their 'roles'?

Perhaps if you could list the maximum cargo capacities (with full sets of expanders) for all the haulage types, and contrast that with the T2 haulers I'd comprehend better...

But right now, I'm feeling my rather pricey T2 rigged Occator and Viator just became rather obsolete... Or am I wrong?

Cheers.

If the human race had followed that rule we would still live in caves.

To be honest, t1 inudstrials aren't worthy of being named after greek gods and stuff, these names should be reserved for PVP ships.

Also, the names will create some confusion, especially for newer player.

It's fine giving them special names, but make the names more intuitive and related to what the ships do, because not all people read the dev blog and even those who did still don't know latin and will forget what the names stand for 10 mins after reading.

I hope you at CCP won't get stuck over the names of ships, that didn't take from the development budget - I hope, if it did then you need to hire me instantly and i'll be naming everything for you!.

Will the Special Edition Industrials be renamed, too?

• Iteron Mark IV Amastris Edition -> Miasmos Amastris Edition
• Iteron Mark IV Quafe Ultra Edition -> ...
• Iteron Mark IV Quafe Ultramarine Edition -> ...

Industrials serve a very important role in EVE Online, serving to transport goods and materials across the cluster. As part of the continuing Tiericide initiative, all Industrials will soon be rebalanced to give them specific roles. As part of this rebalancing, some of the ships will be renamed to reflect the new order.

In his first ever dev blog, CCP Rise lays out all the changes.

Unless CSM raises something major in the next day or two you should have some new stuff to look at before the end of the week =)

No, you've got a general hauler with a large cargo bay for every race.

If you want a ship with a specialized bonus you cross-train, it works the same way that if you want a bonus to ECM you need to train Caldari etc. If you want to be able to switch between different bonuses, you need to be able to fly multiple races.

I'm sure that CCP will spread any future bonused hulls around the other races, but there's no requirements for new bonuses at the moment, and no art department time to do new hull designs.

I am German of languages players, I use a translator there I no English is able

You can expect to see all of this on Tranquility for our Odyssey 1.1 release coming up later this summer. Hope you enjoy the changes!

See you in space o/

CCP Rise

I just want to put this out there
From the dev Blog


why is this not going to sisi for feedback?

Believing that no one will use the new names is an incredibly ignorant claim born obviously out of your general unhappiness with no regard for logic or reason.

Despite having read the OP (Which I have to assume you did because you're aware of the name changes) and still having "No idea why *you're renaming it [them]." Is just more evidence supporting the conclusion that you're just being whiney and immature.

That's pretty severe; I wouldn't call the idea of people not using the new names "ignorant" at all; quite the opposite really. It's human nature to resist change, and history has shown that when we try giving a new name to something old, it takes a long time before it's use is common (if it ever catches on).

For example, back in 2000, in order to try to overcome negative connotations for marketing purposes, the California Prune Board announced that they were officially changing the name "prunes" to "dried plums." The new name was supposed to be more appealing. They spent over $10 million on a campaign to promote this change.

To this day, I don't know anyone who calls them "dried plums." In fact, I have a hard time finding anyone who even remembers that this change took place. This is regardless of the fact that many growers still label their products as "dried plums;" people still just call them prunes, even if the label says differently.

So you can change the name, you can rewrite the labels, but when people see something familiar, they will continue to call it what they have always called it, despite any efforts to enforce a change.

Your rant hinges on the premise of wide usage, where as the discussion is about "no one". Your entire rant is invalid.

It's a pretty decent price gap between 100mil and an Orca, but the Orca fills that role quite well. Perfect skills with rigs and expanders brings the general cargo bay to 90km3, + the fleet hangar 40km3

I have 3 main uses for Industrial haulers;

1) Missions; according to eve survival the largest story line mission for Level 4 is 40k, never seen a T1 hauler carry that in one go.

2) Mining assist; the fact that I see one ship carrying Ore and another carrying minerals, is cruel and laughable, so every new high sec miner has to have 2 hauling ships for one operation, not nice.

3) My most important need, a hauler that can move ships from a high sec trade hub to areas of danger, packaged ships and ammo, modules, no T2 hauler seems capable of that. The cloaked Prowler, 3 frigs at best, the Mastodon, higher capacity but still not safe enough to get through low sec safely.

My corp. and alliance use a collection of Freighters, Jump freighters and carriers to get ships and modules to low sec, an absurd level of skills for a simple task, but they have no alternative.

I would like to be able to carry a reasonable amount of small ships in the cloaked T2 version if possible, short distances from hi-sec to low-sec, otherwise Industrial hauling has no value to me.
Although this hope is more in the area of T2 Industrials, I don't believe this will happen.

Also to a previous poster, who implores us to trust CCP as they have a great record in updates and patches.
I personally have never been privileged to fly a single ship that has been improved by CCP, only nerfed and made less useful or valueable ever.
Rifter nerf, Rupture nerf, Tracking Enhancer nerf (for minmatar ships that shoot in falloff 99% of time) Drake nerf, Hurricane nerf, Typhoon changes, Medium missiles nerfed. The best result as a Minmatar pilot I have EVER experienced in a patch or update, has been "mostly unchanged". EVER. So how about a reduced subscription for Minmatar races as an apology.

hmm.

after all that, any chance we're going to see some capital industrial rework? Pretty please? :)

[quote=CCP Rise]...go do something important like deleting falcons from the game (I kind of agree with you)GÇ¥.

This is a Stupid remark to have , out of all the Ewar in the game, Jammers are now broken beyond them being used anymore, CCP have nerf and nerf ECM to a point where they are broken from repair...

Courier is another way to say transport, which is what these ships actually do. And whose to say that InterBus couldn't come up with thier own lines of specialized ships, or have them built specifically for them. It would seem to be a natural progression.

Also, the names will create some confusion, especially for newer player.

This all sounds like " why making this easy when complicated works well too " or was it the other way around.

While you DEV are busy squeezing your brains on this maybe you should have a look at the cargo capacity gap too.

Roughly we go from 40K for the T1 to 1M Charon type. (I leave the bastard Orca out of the equation)

New ships to fill the gap ?? 300 <->-500K capacity would be welcome i imagine?

Cheers

I'm really excited about the Epithal, hoping it will make low-cost, low-sec hauling of PI less painful than a hundred+ trips per week in a blockade runner.

Can we get an idea on the carrying capacity of this thing? I'm hoping for 50,000 m3 without the need of rigs, with a building cost comparable to the current Iterons so it won't kill my entire week's manufacturing profit if I lose it like losing a Viator would.

** edit** nevermind, I see they already posted 45k m3 that in the other thread at https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=252819

Actually, I'd rather carry one five gallon can across town and be done with it then carry a gallon can across town five times.

Your call, but that five gallon can is an easier target, and a more tempting one, as there's more loot to be had for a single attack. If it's a five gallon can of jewels I have to drag down the street in plain sight with a big label on it (anyone who sees a specialized ship like an Epithal will know what it is hauling), or a one gallon can I can hide under my coat, I'll make more trips to keep it secure.

Of course, I'm sure it depends on the local activity in your corner of lowsec. If things are quiet enough that you can make the trip in a giant loot pinata, go for it. Or, you could just let me know where you're hauling, and maybe I'll finally give in and turn to piracy....

Wouldn't it be like saying you can't stuff a truck with whatever you want?
I mean , an empty space can be filled with everything , isn't that right?

Nope.

Borrow a tipper truck from a construction site and try using it as a bulk water carrier.

Or get a tanker from a local fuel depot and see how useful it is for carrying parcels.

Or . . . . . well, I'm sure you get the picture.

You can fill the tipper truck with bottles of water , a tanker with a proper opening can be filled with parcels , or... well I'm sure you get the picture xD

You can fill the tipper truck with bottles of water , a tanker with a proper opening can be filled with parcels , or... well I'm sure you get the picture xD

that's the whole point. if I haul the larger ship, you only have one chance to catch me. If i haul in the smaller ships, you have five chances.

I don't really see the point of changing a whole bunch of names that everyone is already familiar with and at the same time dividing up capabilities according to race. Haulers have always been able to haul anything in their cargo bays. Why should we have to train up 4 different races to have equal access to moving junk around. Make them more universal in my opinion.

Try reading my post properly:

Define "proper".

[Edit] To give a more relevant comparison, consider RL shipping on present day planet Earth.

Gas carriers carry gas, nothing else.

Oil tankers carry oil, nothing else.

Ore carriers carry ore, nothing else.

Etc, etc.

2 Ore Industrials Should be created to hold Ore and minerals. They shouldn't go to gallente.

I shouldn't have to cross race train to get any specific benefit to haul, this is a basic function to eve.

THE ONLY REASON THIS IS DONE IS IN THE INTEREST OF PUBLIC SAFETY and SPACE NO ONE GIVES A DAMN.

That's why all the freighters are identical, right?

if you were correct they wouldn't need to create different types of trucks to carry all the liquids......
they could just as easily put the tank inside a container and utilize the standard fittings on every tractor trailer