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Stop Overpricing!!!

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KANNIK	Posted - 2005.12.12 11:17:00 - [1] here's an idea to stop overpricing: Apply to market & escrow sales... Example: HAC cost's 30mil base min cost to make, now ccp apply a limit of 15% sales profit margin to said ship (also applied to bpc's). Now if a producer sell's for more than the allowable 15% profit margin he get's hit with 80% TAX on every isk above the 15%.(no one would buy it anyway) This will encourage him to NOT overprice his good's and make the game better for everyone, it will also discourage one player/corp from hoarding all the same bpo types because it isn't as profitable anymore. Now this is just an idea that can be improved or crapped upon, but let's face it something need's to be done!!! comments ? no flames please...
TuRtLe HeAd	Posted - 2005.12.12 11:28:00 - [2] AGREED, But then it is a player set market. If people stopped Buying them the prices would come down as well. Its when I see a HAC BPC for 80 million that it brings a tear to my Eye. ------------------------------------------------ I Pity the Fool !
ManOfHonor	Posted - 2005.12.12 11:32:00 - [3] Well, it kinda massacres the way economies actualy work.. sure in real life there are price ceilings for some things... but thats usually for things like food, sometimes apartments (for poor people only).... but never for ultra luxury goods like HACs, the producers have the right to charge what they want, and more importantly, to charge whatever the customers will buy them for.. if you limit HAC prices to 30mil (yes its the insurance cost, but actual costs are higher than that, especialy considering what the BPO is worth), then you will simple see people putting up excrows that say 'Deimos'! 105mil in nonni, convo to arrange a trade!' and people will simply do the in-station trading, because that means they make 3x as many credits (and actually make a good profit) what do you do for a living? would you like it if CCP made you sell your ore/mins/uberloot at 1/2 or 1/3 what you normally sell it for? _____________________________ NPC Asteroid Belt Bases Honor Above Self Glory For Self Strength Of Self
KANNIK	Posted - 2005.12.12 12:03:00 - [4] Originally by: ManOfHonor Well, it kinda massacres the way economies actualy work.. Originally by: ManOfHonor but never for ultra luxury goods like HACs, the producers have the right to charge what they want, and more importantly, to charge whatever the customers will buy them for.. yes they do, but with an 80% tax if this was applied :) Originally by: ManOfHonor if you limit HAC prices to 30mil (yes its the insurance cost, but actual costs are higher than that, especialy considering what the BPO is worth), The 30mil was just an example but to answer you it would be 30mil + 15% profit = 34.5mil, the value of the BPO is only relavent when selling the BPO not the ship's. Originally by: ManOfHonor then you will simple see people putting up excrows that say 'Deimos'! 105mil in nonni, convo to arrange a trade!' and people will simply do the in-station trading, because that means they make 3x as many credits (and actually make a good profit) Not if the buyer know's about the 15% profit margin, he simply would not pay the higher price... Originally by: ManOfHonor what do you do for a living? would you like it if CCP made you sell your ore/mins/uberloot at 1/2 or 1/3 what you normally sell it for? I'm a miner by trade,so by that argument it's ok to overcharge other players regardless of the fact the item isn't actually worth it or even cost the producer 1/3 the price he's asking?
Tresh Keen	Posted - 2005.12.12 12:17:00 - [5] pah, if somebody pays 5000% more - then they price is that high. The only thing CCP can do and should do - release more BPO as we have more players. Cheers, Bit
KANNIK	Posted - 2005.12.12 12:32:00 - [6] Originally by: Tresh Keen pah, if somebody pays 5000% more - then they price is that high. The only thing CCP can do and should do - release more BPO as we have more players. Cheers, Bit What if anything will that solve? Those newly seeded BPO's will undoubtedly end up in the hand's of already rich producers. All because a % of new owner's don't have the skill's or simply couldn't be bothered to produce from them and will sell them at the first oppertunity... and so the cycle of overpricing continues!
MeJulie	Posted - 2005.12.12 13:10:00 - [7] If I got a Tech II ship BPO, I'd sell it immeditely to the FIrst Buyer that offered me billions of isk. and I don't care who it is
Xaat Xuun	Posted - 2005.12.12 14:17:00 - [8] Originally by: Tresh Keen pah, if somebody pays 5000% more - then they price is that high. The only thing CCP can do and should do - release more BPO as we have more players. Cheers, Bit That would be the only thing that CCP could do.
theRaptor	Posted - 2005.12.12 14:24:00 - [9] That is the most retarded idea I have ever heard. Not only does it ignore economic theory it ignores game mechanics. 1) Ships will be sold through escrow where the type of goods and price is not checked. 2) Ships will be sold through direct trade. Nothing needs to be done. You don't need T2. And most veteran pilots can afford it without much issue. If you are a poor noob who has his eyes set on a HAC then to damn bad. If T2 producers charge to much ISK for your liking then war dec them for it. I don't think you trust, in, my, self-righteous suicide.
Rod Blaine	Posted - 2005.12.12 14:33:00 - [10] 0 points for this crappy idea. The eve market is like everything in Eve: competitive. You either owrks yourself into a favourable positions or get left behind. Cut-troath capitalism anyone ? This is the economic equivalent of limiting people to consensual 1v1's as far as pvp goes: no way ! _______________________________________________ Power to the players !
Binary Mind	Posted - 2005.12.12 14:44:00 - [11] disagreed. only way to lower the price is to not buy them anymore :D as long as you buy them at that prices they will never go down, if you were building them would you sell them at 10% profit if you could sell them at 100% profit? please take a look at both sides thanks
KANNIK	Posted - 2005.12.12 14:46:00 - [12] Originally by: theRaptor That is the most retarded idea I have ever heard. Not only does it ignore economic theory it ignores game mechanics. 1) Ships will be sold through escrow where the type of goods and price is not checked. 2) Ships will be sold through direct trade. Nothing needs to be done. You don't need T2. And most veteran pilots can afford it without much issue. If you are a poor noob who has his eyes set on a HAC then to damn bad. If T2 producers charge to much ISK for your liking then war dec them for it. wrong on all 3 highlights... it was JUST an idea and after all there are more than "Vets" playing.Thank's for you constructive input though!
KANNIK	Posted - 2005.12.12 14:49:00 - [13] Originally by: Binary Mind disagreed. only way to lower the price is to not buy them anymore :D as long as you buy them at that prices they will never go down, if you were building them would you sell them at 10% profit if you could sell them at 100% profit? please take a look at both sides thanks I agree it's nice to make as much profit as possible, but honestly can you really see people NOT buying ?
KANNIK	Posted - 2005.12.12 14:52:00 - [14] Originally by: Xaat Xuun That would be the only thing that CCP could do. your probably right Xaat, but we can hope can't we ? :)
TuRtLe HeAd	Posted - 2005.12.12 15:07:00 - [15] Theres only 2 ways things will be priced for their value. 1 : The sellers see the light and reduce the prices so that goods are sold for what they are worth. 2 : If Buyers stop buying. (GOTO 1.) Player set market : The Players need to wise up. Both the buyers and the sellers.
Binary Mind	Posted - 2005.12.12 15:09:00 - [16] Originally by: KANNIK I agree it's nice to make as much profit as possible, but honestly can you really see people NOT buying ? I got the money, I got the skills..... I still don't buy them. I rather lose 10 inties instead of one HAC. They are just ridiculous expensive
Joshua Foiritain	Posted - 2005.12.12 15:12:00 - [17] ------------------ [Coreli Corporation Mainframe]
ecam's Hunter	Posted - 2005.12.12 15:32:00 - [18] Real life ecomonics don't come into this gate for the simple fact that CCP control the market by vertue of the fact that they only allow a limited number of BPO's to be given out. If BPO'S where given out more oftern then prices would be more realistic, current system suck unless you have one. ----> Insert something funny here <----
TuRtLe HeAd	Posted - 2005.12.12 17:16:00 - [19] I seriously think that after 1 year (or 6 months) of implementation a tech II BPO should become available on the market. It does sort of make sense, After a while a ship becomes old technology and available to more and more people. Obviously this idea would be met with vehement hatrid, but it would certainly stop The Corporate *****s, maintaining Their Grip on a particular niche for to long.
Donna Darko	Posted - 2005.12.12 18:09:00 - [20] Originally by: TuRtLe HeAd I seriously think that after 1 year (or 6 months) of implementation a tech II BPO should become available on the market. It does sort of make sense, After a while a ship becomes old technology and available to more and more people. I'd like that very much! for several reasons: - there will be competition - (to quote the dreaded real life) there are pretty few monopolies on things like cars or other things you purchase every day, because of the "me too" companies, who can make similar/better products than the original. <insert low 3 figure number out of my ass> BPOs available to 70,000+ players (count that as 210,000+ characters if you want) is a bit unrealistic in terms of economy, especially since the "me too" effect is not possible with BPOs. - more reasons I had in mind when pressing Reply but forgot now, I might be back to add later. The "don't buy them anymore" answer is full of bull, and you know it. Let's say I stop buying because I cannot afford it (the time i spend in the game and playstyle doesn't produce enough money). Dude next door never loses ships, because he doesn't go into PVP often, so for him an investment of 130 mil for a HAC is acceptable - he then goes and makes more money. He will lose it only if he becomes*****y and goes to low sec or takes on more than a HAC can chew. But by that time, he will have already covered his investment - again, because he doesn't put himself in position to lose much. It also seems every PVPer out there has a carebear alt producing money - not really an option for me. So I'm left with the option "don't buy it, whittle and die" - or go to empire, settle down, marry a level 4 agent and never get into fights. At least with tech 1 ships' insurances, my resoursces will make me last a bit longer (in game, not in fights). ---------- Please fix the scan probes!!! (also included a guide to use them)
Alanaara	Posted - 2005.12.12 18:12:00 - [21] the answer to this problem is, like me, very simple. If the GM's want to bring the price of HAC's down all they have to do is put some onto the markets at say 50mil. If players have the choice between buying one from a cartel for 135 mil or from an npc at 50 the cartel is going to be left hanging every time. If the producers want to sell they'll need to bring the ships they sell down to a reasonable price (and at 50mil they will still make over 120% profit) meaning that everyone will win.
Felcas	Posted - 2005.12.12 20:14:00 - [22] I DISAGREE One of the most beautifull things in EVE is how marvelous the economy on it works. Putting a limit will not work at all, people will stop to sell it on the market and escrow and will create a black market based on chanel or forum contacts. That is what will happen. People spend hour, days, weeks, training skills to build things to make a nice profit, they also have huge work looking for a cheaper place and materias to buid their things. Plus if everyone can buy a HAC (I dont know but guess it is a big F$#ing ship) then things will be very diferent in EVE and I dont think this is going to be good. What about you go to street and find out everybody can buy ferraris and Lamborghinis? I would love to buy a Munim but I cant. Its price is well over a Battlecruiser. It is not a fair price, but those who think it is worth the money can always pay for that. For another perspective, look into the Mastodon, its price a few months ago was of 110 mil...I bought one for 90 mil and sold it for 95mil making a nice profit on it. But the price got down to about 35mil. What I think is that more BPC or BPO should be available with time to make those super hyper extraordinary expensive special ships more realistic still expensive ship. But that must be done thru supply and demand. Felcas ___________________________________ I love trade - the market is my battlefield
TotensBurntCorpse	Posted - 2005.12.12 21:30:00 - [23] Why does T2 have to become affordable??? If it does then seeding more BPOs would be the solution since T2 ships need moon minerals to be built. NPC production of T2 ships would undercut not just the BPO owners but also the moon miners. Supposedly there are 20BPOs for each T2 out there. If availablility were the problem then no T2 would be on the market at all. T2 is there so SUPPLY outstrips DEMAND. Price is really set by the buyers. Dont beat up the manufacturers since they will gouge what ever they can. If you dont pay then prices have to drop as long as the BPO owners continue to produce. In contridiction if there is a BPO owners cabal / cartel then they can jointly price fix for a given commodity. So again it still comes to YOU the buyer limiting what your willing to pay. So again I would ask.... Why does T2 have to be affordable???? TotensBurntCorpse Likes EVE, Starfleet Command Series, Earth & Beyond, Anything Battlefield, MOHAA, Call of Duty. Dislikes Not much.
Deja Thoris	Posted - 2005.12.12 21:52:00 - [24] Originally by: KANNIK Originally by: theRaptor That is the most retarded idea I have ever heard. Not only does it ignore economic theory it ignores game mechanics. 1) Ships will be sold through escrow where the type of goods and price is not checked. 2) Ships will be sold through direct trade. Nothing needs to be done. You don't need T2. And most veteran pilots can afford it without much issue. If you are a poor noob who has his eyes set on a HAC then to damn bad. If T2 producers charge to much ISK for your liking then war dec them for it. wrong on all 3 highlights... it was JUST an idea and after all there are more than "Vets" playing.Thank's for you constructive input though! "noobs" dont fly hacs. Your idea takes common sense, supply and demand and throws them out of the window. 0/10 is generous.
Felcas	Posted - 2005.12.12 22:04:00 - [25] Originally by: TotensBurntCorpse Why does T2 have to become affordable??? Dont take me wrong, particulary I think the supply X demmand is what really matters. I just dont think it is weel balanced for the game to place the price of a HAC way over what it really value. I mean I can almost buy a battleship with the ammount spent on a HAC, and we are not talking about the money spend on skills to use it. A HAC is a HAC, it is not a battleship, it does not have the capabilities of a battelship. I think its price should be a little above battlecruisers. But again I am not talking about market here...I am talking about game balance and logic think. Dont censor the market...but give more BPOs or BPCc to player to make a better competition Remembr the Mastodon case... ___________________________________ I love trade - the market is my battlefield
KANNIK	Posted - 2005.12.12 22:10:00 - [26] Originally by: Deja Thoris Originally by: KANNIK Originally by: theRaptor That is the most retarded idea I have ever heard. Not only does it ignore economic theory it ignores game mechanics. 1) Ships will be sold through escrow where the type of goods and price is not checked. 2) Ships will be sold through direct trade. Nothing needs to be done. You don't need T2. And most veteran pilots can afford it without much issue. If you are a poor noob who has his eyes set on a HAC then to damn bad. If T2 producers charge to much ISK for your liking then war dec them for it. wrong on all 3 highlights... it was JUST an idea and after all there are more than "Vets" playing.Thank's for you constructive input though! "noobs" dont fly hacs. Your idea takes common sense, supply and demand and throws them out of the window. 0/10 is generous. I never said they did... Thanks for your usual level of imput though! is "supply & demand" the new "risk V reward" quote of the day?
KANNIK	Posted - 2005.12.12 22:14:00 - [27] Originally by: Felcas Originally by: TotensBurntCorpse Why does T2 have to become affordable??? Dont take me wrong, particulary I think the supply X demmand is what really matters. I just dont think it is weel balanced for the game to place the price of a HAC way over what it really value. I mean I can almost buy a battleship with the ammount spent on a HAC, and we are not talking about the money spend on skills to use it. A HAC is a HAC, it is not a battleship, it does not have the capabilities of a battelship. I think its price should be a little above battlecruisers. But again I am not talking about market here...I am talking about game balance and logic think. Dont censor the market...but give more BPOs or BPCc to player to make a better competition Remembr the Mastodon case... I did say it was just an idea that could be improved on, maybe your idea is the best soloution in the end? who knows in this game unless we try...
sonofollo	Posted - 2005.12.12 22:18:00 - [28] the way to encourage more competitive supplier pricing is to realise less t2 BPOs and many more T2 BPCs via agents and RP smaller amounts via research agents and the odd drop (CCP are moving towards this) more producers of a good even if supply is the same will ensure a bit more competitive pricing. With the new t2 ships though HACs might become less attractive - if u dont like the pricing dont buy it and buy something else - the fact these prices are still paid says something about the buyers (sellers are just getting the price they can)
Chaos Hellbreth	Posted - 2005.12.12 22:23:00 - [29] Personally I wouldn't mind a price cieling, just to keep things from going overboard. Say 80 - 90% higher than the regional market value? I have been forced into paying 95% over the market value when I got stuck in 0.0 once, its a long story....
KANNIK	Posted - 2005.12.12 22:23:00 - [30] Originally by: TuRtLe HeAd I seriously think that after 1 year (or 6 months) of implementation a tech II BPO should become available on the market. I like this idea better...

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