If so, how?

or can someone just walk up to me in a station or planetside and shoot me in the face and kill me permanently?

Several lore figures that were capsuleers have been permanently killed in this way. Otro (can't think of the surname, Gatriushi?) was one of the most prominent, he was the Ishukone CEO prior to the Broker using a Gallente Federation Nyx to suicide gank the corporation's headquarters (a space station).

So what makes Capsuleers so intimidating to the general populace, in person?

outside of our ships we are no different from anyone else with Combat Training (right?). You shoot us, we die.

I suppose if we are ever allowed to walk around in the stations, some new lore will have to be written...

Safe to assume that say, i ground combat, a Capsuleer would typically outclass a regular soldier, due simply to the (I'm assuming much harsher, both mentally and physically) training required to become a Capsuleer?

pilots have access to expensive cybernetics, expensive weapons, expensive armour and gear, and if it comes to that, can afford to pay for an elite bodyguard. The pilot themselves may or may not be a dangerous combatant, but the two ex-megacorporate "Personnel Affairs Agents" with DUST implants in their heads and augmented muscles who are following them at a discrete distance in nice and anonymous, but capacious suits?

Bear in mind, in real life there is such a thing as armoured clothing, to be worn by politicians. It's good enough to stop a 9mm handgun at point blank range. and in the EVE world, we know dropsuits have shield emitters, maybe you can buy more discreet ones that operate under clothing.

So the scenario is: you attack the capsuleer. With their heightened cybernetic reflexes, they dodge the attack, or with their expensive armoured executive clothing and shield emitter belt they are spared the worst of it. An instant later their bodyguard have drawn scrambler pistols and you are now a microwave dinner. The capsuleer pays any fines and expenses to the station management and loses the miniscule cost in a cunning tax return the next time they sell a shipment of missile launchers. Your corpse is thrown in the biomass vats and used to fertilise the stations' hydroponics bay.

pilots have access to expensive cybernetics, expensive weapons, expensive armour and gear, and if it comes to that, can afford to pay for an elite bodyguard. The pilot themselves may or may not be a dangerous combatant, but the two ex-megacorporate "Personnel Affairs Agents" with DUST implants in their heads and augmented muscles who are following them at a discrete distance in nice and anonymous, but capacious suits?

Bear in mind, in real life there is such a thing as armoured clothing, to be worn by politicians. It's good enough to stop a 9mm handgun at point blank range. and in the EVE world, we know dropsuits have shield emitters, maybe you can buy more discreet ones that operate under clothing.

So the scenario is: you attack the capsuleer. With their heightened cybernetic reflexes, they dodge the attack, or with their expensive armoured executive clothing and shield emitter belt they are spared the worst of it. An instant later their bodyguard have drawn scrambler pistols and you are now a microwave dinner. The capsuleer pays any fines and expenses to the station management and loses the miniscule cost in a cunning tax return the next time they sell a shipment of missile launchers. Your corpse is thrown in the biomass vats and used to fertilise the stations' hydroponics bay.

pilots have access to expensive cybernetics, expensive weapons, expensive armour and gear, and if it comes to that, can afford to pay for an elite bodyguard. The pilot themselves may or may not be a dangerous combatant, but the two ex-megacorporate "Personnel Affairs Agents" with DUST implants in their heads and augmented muscles who are following them at a discrete distance in nice and anonymous, but capacious suits?

Bear in mind, in real life there is such a thing as armoured clothing, to be worn by politicians. It's good enough to stop a 9mm handgun at point blank range. and in the EVE world, we know dropsuits have shield emitters, maybe you can buy more discreet ones that operate under clothing.

So the scenario is: you attack the capsuleer. With their heightened cybernetic reflexes, they dodge the attack, or with their expensive armoured executive clothing and shield emitter belt they are spared the worst of it. An instant later their bodyguard have drawn scrambler pistols and you are now a microwave dinner. The capsuleer pays any fines and expenses to the station management and loses the miniscule cost in a cunning tax return the next time they sell a shipment of missile launchers. Your corpse is thrown in the biomass vats and used to fertilise the stations' hydroponics bay.

I know a bunch of clones that don't need a pod to transfer consciousness, it is only matter of time for that implant starts finding its way into capsuleers.

You're obviously referring to the Dusters, well, bad news for you, capsule interface implants are not compatible with dust implants, end of story. This has been stated multiple times in by CCP devs.

So what makes Capsuleers so intimidating to the general populace, in person?

outside of our ships we are no different from anyone else with Combat Training (right?). You shoot us, we die.

I suppose if we are ever allowed to walk around in the stations, some new lore will have to be written...

It was my understanding you could grow a clone with whatever implants in it you wanted, so maybe you can just be dumped into a duster when your pod gets breached. Just because the Duster implants arent compatible with the capsules doesn't necessarily mean the neural transfer net is incompatible.


On the other hand, this just reinforces my idea that you never actually leave your pod, and that the station environment is nothing but a computer simulation. I mean it's been YEARS since I've had an agent come into my quarters, since CCP forgot to fix my damn door. In every station, no less. So ronery...

No. You cannot be a DUST soldier and a Capsuleer at the same time. This is a stone tablet handed down from the mountain by CCP. It doesn't work that way. It won't work that way. You pick one or the other, but not both.

You don't get to swap between DUST clones and Capsule clones. There's more to both processes than simply shoving some metal in your head, and those processes and the way they work are not compatible.

The DUST implant cannot be removed without killing the person in question. The DUST implant is also not compatible with the capsule-clone growth process. It would probably show up as a massive tumor in your next clone if you tried to pod-scan with one of them inside you. It's also been suggested that the capsule implants take up the same physical locations inside the brain, or something of the sort. The hardware literally doesn't fit inside at the same time.

pilots have access to expensive cybernetics, expensive weapons, expensive armour and gear, and if it comes to that, can afford to pay for an elite bodyguard. The pilot themselves may or may not be a dangerous combatant, but the two ex-megacorporate "Personnel Affairs Agents" with DUST implants in their heads and augmented muscles who are following them at a discrete distance in nice and anonymous, but capacious suits?

Bear in mind, in real life there is such a thing as armoured clothing, to be worn by politicians. It's good enough to stop a 9mm handgun at point blank range. and in the EVE world, we know dropsuits have shield emitters, maybe you can buy more discreet ones that operate under clothing.

So the scenario is: you attack the capsuleer. With their heightened cybernetic reflexes, they dodge the attack, or with their expensive armoured executive clothing and shield emitter belt they are spared the worst of it. An instant later their bodyguard have drawn scrambler pistols and you are now a microwave dinner. The capsuleer pays any fines and expenses to the station management and loses the miniscule cost in a cunning tax return the next time they sell a shipment of missile launchers. Your corpse is thrown in the biomass vats and used to fertilise the stations' hydroponics bay.

I know CCP has said as much and yet I can't help but wonder how much different they can be. Ok the Empire made versions of the implants may be not as advanced but the Sleeper version, the ones used by the First gens, is what allows Sleepers to plug in and live inside virtual realities so advanced they seem like the real thing. I find it very hard to believe that it would be impossible to create a few control interfaces to operate a ship that takes advantage of the same mechanics that allows one to enter a VR world. There has to be transfer of data happening to get the experiences from the VR environment, replace that with the data feeds ships send out. Afterall when a capsuleer plugs into a ship it's always described as becoming the ship in a way.

The capsule is made of Jovian tech, which our engineers only barely understand. The Jovians showed us exactly how to build an implant that works with their capsule, which is why we can use it.

The DUST implant is pretty much a carbon copy of Sleeper tech, which our engineers also scarcely understand. Without the Jovians helping us, I doubt we can get Sleeper tech to work with Jovian tech.

The ability to construct an object requires that somebody involved in its production has to have a theoretical grasp on the technology.

Or some-thing. We live in the age of nanoassembly and advanced AI, so perhaps it's possible to come up with a plausible situation where the empires could remain ignorant of capsule technology, yet still be able to produce the capsule efficiently and effectively at mass scale.

I know a bunch of clones that don't need a pod to transfer consciousness, it is only matter of time for that implant starts finding its way into capsuleers.

Advanced technology hinges on scientific understand. You can't build a nuclear reactor unless you understand the fissile nature of atoms. If some aliens transmitted the schematics for a space elevator and an FTL engine to us tomorrow, the very act of deciphering those schematics and building them would advance our scientific knowledge to match.

On the other hand, this just reinforces my idea that you never actually leave your pod, and that the station environment is nothing but a computer simulation. I mean it's been YEARS since I've had an agent come into my quarters, since CCP forgot to fix my damn door. In every station, no less. So ronery...

Actually, you can, if you're given sufficiently detailed instructions on how to build it, prep it, fuel it up and what procedures to do to make it go critical.

That process of learning how to build it would itself bring the technological and theoretical understanding of how and why it works, and the ability to apply those principles elsewhere.

The Broker, as portrayed in The Empyrean Age, is unfortunately more of a walking plot device than a character. He displays several technologies (the freely clone jumping among them) that are borderline magic even in the context of New Eden's technology.

what about the Broker?... how does he retain what was learned through his conversation with Tibus Heth after he kills himself at the foundry?

Acutally never being able to leave the pod would be in my opinion the most radical and satisfying solution to this question. It would be the ultimate price you pay for being immortal.

Delicious.

We know that there was cloning before capsules.
Therefore, presumably, there is very likely to still be cloning tech available outside of a capsule, even for a capsuleer.

Capsules are special because they're the combination of cloning and neural interfacing that allows a ship to be piloted more effectively.

It seems to be a common misconception that cloning is only as old as the capsule is, and that's what makes them special, but it's made repeatedly clear all throughout the lore that cloning has been around for a long, long time.

One distinction that might be drawn in types of cloning is how well memories are kept. In the capsule rebirth, you remember everything up to the moment of death. A non-capsule rebirth might only restore the memories that were "backed up" during the last brain scan, or whatever. Or there may be ways to "transfer" memories even while out of pod, as is suggested in at least one chronicle.

That's what I was about to say, you can be cloned without a capsule, there is just a "memory loss" from the last scan. And guess what ? Every capsuleer that died at least once, has at least done one brain scan :p

Of course, usualy with non-capsule cloning if I remember well, these scans are non-destructive and slow.

according to the Eve Origins trailer every single capsuller has died at least once.

Acutally never being able to leave the pod would be in my opinion the most radical and satisfying solution to this question. It would be the ultimate price you pay for being immortal.

Yep. they euthanize you into your first capsule clone. Presumably it's easier, safer and more reliable to build a viable clone around the piloting implants than to install the piloting implants in a living person, then just "pod" somebody into that clone.

It's effectively Jump-cloning... which is effectively travel-by-suicide. Capsuleers are weird sometimes.

Oh, and Sonkut: what the Broker did wasn't cloning like pod pilots or DUST mercs do it. He had multiple copies of himself runing around, all of which were expendable, and all of which streamed information about what they were seeing, hearing and doing back to his secret lair. If capsuleers are weird, the Broker was frak-nuts insane. And what he was doing was all kinds of illegal.

Actually, according to the Eve Origins trailer every single capsuller has died at least once.

*long multi-quote snip*

Not every capsuleer.

Last time they considered adding this concept, they made the following clarification: http://oldforums.eveonline.com/?a=topic&threadID=1519536&page=1#8

So both methods are possible in-universe, with implanting into the original body being the original method and euthanization+cloning being the new method.

The consensus seems to be that capsuleers are not immortal outside their capsules, but what about the Broker? In the empyrean age he kills himself several times outside of his capsule and yet he continues to be re-cloned. Yes he runs multiple copies of himself, but if his copies are just clones then how does he retain what was learned through his conversation with Tibus Heth after he kills himself at the foundry? If the DUST implants are not compatible with capsuleer implants then he cant have DUST implats because he pilots the capital ship into the Ishukone station.

Jump clones are remotly controlled bodies with implants to recieve and replicate what is going on in the brain of "main" clone so to speak. That is how the broker can jump between so many bodies without losing memory. The jump clones we use in game are similar, but we players arent able to use remotly controlled clones, would make the game to easy if we would be able to jump in to a clone without risk losing skillpoints if we hadnt upgrade it. And the timer we experience in game is probably a safety net set up so you dont go mad when switching between bodies to quickly which can be ignored by lore characters.

Jump clones are remotly controlled bodies with implants to recieve and replicate what is going on in the brain of "main" clone so to speak. That is how the broker can jump between so many bodies without losing memory. The jump clones we use in game are similar, but we players arent able to use remotly controlled clones, would make the game to easy if we would be able to jump in to a clone without risk losing skillpoints if we hadnt upgrade it. And the timer we experience in game is probably a safety net set up so you dont go mad when switching between bodies to quickly which can be ignored by lore characters.

No, we've been over this. The Broker was genuinely using multiple clones, and was keeping the "master" clone up to date with an archaic piece of technology known as a "microphone".


Interstellar FTL comms, the video feed from his clone's eyes, the audio feed from its ears, and between them that's enough for him to know the content of any conversation one of his operating clones may have had. Fluid router comms are impossible to intercept.

He didn't lose memory because he watched it happen. There doesn't need to be some big complex remote-control-body scheme involved when he could just do the equivalent of bugging his clones.

No, we've been over this. The Broker was genuinely using multiple clones, and was keeping the "master" clone up to date with an archaic piece of technology known as a "microphone".


Interstellar FTL comms, the video feed from his clone's eyes, the audio feed from its ears, and between them that's enough for him to know the content of any conversation one of his operating clones may have had. Fluid router comms are impossible to intercept.

He didn't lose memory because he watched it happen. There doesn't need to be some big complex remote-control-body scheme involved when he could just do the equivalent of bugging his clones.

If so, how?

or can someone just walk up to me in a station or planetside and shoot me in the face and kill me permanently?

Presumably by spending their time isolated in the captain's quarters so no one can shoot them in the back.

I get the impression of him being in control of the body at hand. I read the first book and the way he does it is really cool. Still complicated do you have any reference from a book that explains this?

If you die away from your brain-pan scanner, you die. End of story! ...

There's the Broker, but he's a mary-sue if I've ever seen one :P

How many times does falcon have to say this is not possible for capsuleers?

I'm not going to bother finding all the quotes, just work your fiction around this small constraint and get over it

That's not going to happen. The two technologies are fundamentally incompatible.

That's not going to happen. The two technologies are fundamentally incompatible.

When you unplug from the capsule, you're just as vulnerable as any other meat-sack out there

Speak with him yourself if you need further clarification, the point is there's no getting around it. You leave the pod, you are a weak flesh bag with no second chances.

Can't have it all.

Nobody is trying to have it all. And again, nobody is trying to use the DUST implant to accomplish any of this (only a reference for a future capsuleer-only implant). And there is reason to go around it as you're trying to make ultimatums about what a vast section of the RP community has been trying to play similarly to the role of The Broker as featured within the novel (one of the best feared examples of a capsuleer using their power to instigate an agenda).

In fact, technically whatever technology he used could easily be the base (or simply is the technology) we're referring to. And you troll the character because you don't like how invulnerable it makes some people.

I'm sorry, Miss Vitalia, you're right, you can't have it all.

I kindly hope a GM can clarify this and/or you can find a quote stating how The Broker is a purely fictional character and not within the EVE lore. Else I'm going to start recommending EVERYBODY start rolling out with Broker tech.

It's very easy to say that The Broker was a one off, and that quite literally no else in the cluster would have access to the technology, funding and capability that he did. His pockets were quite literally bottomless. He also did not use the same technology as DUST mercs do, and was around way before the technology ever existed. It was several years after he died that it was discovered, concieved and reverse engineered.

It's also good to look up your prime fiction with regards to how the capsule works. The Neural burning hardware used in a capsule quite literally fries your brain during the process of capturing its state once the pod is breached, turning you into a dribbling simpleton. It's so intrusive that it bombards the brain with all kinds of nasty radiation and causes instant breakdown of cellular integrity and the destruction of tissue.

The capsule's on board systems effectively euthanize you once the scan is complete with a lethal dosage of a methylmercury based neurotoxin that quite easily crosses the blood brain barrier and causes massive damage, in order to prevent you from being exposed to vacuum and dying far more painfully and horribly.

I just finished writing the technical backstory surrounding the capsule and it's basic operating principles a few weeks back

It's not possible to be both a DUST mercenary and a capsuleer, hence why you have seperate characters for each purpose. The two technologies operate completely independantly of eachother and are so fundementally different that it makes them incompatible on the most basic of levels.

DUST mercenaries are an entirely different, albeit equally dangerous type of immortal.

Again, never was trying to mention trying to be a DUST merc nor use the implants of. The question was always could capsuleers construct technology similar in function to extend the capsule's functions beyond the capsule.

I think CONCORD frowns upon unlicensed clone tech *wags finger*

While CONCORD frowns upon unlicensed capsule tech and illegal cloning, it's still rife as they have no way to regulate it outside their sphere of influence. If they did, the vast majority of pirate capsuleers, pirate faction officers and other dirty scoundrels would all be dead or in custody.

I think the important thing to remember is that a little bit of artistic license is always applicable whenever you're role playing. It's not as if anyone at CCP is going to turn around and say "YOU THERE, STOP THAT IMMEDIATELY, YOU'RE DOING IT WRONG!".

Prime fiction is there as a guide, a framework, not as a set of bars to keep you held in a cell and force your character to behave in a given way.

Personally, I'm all for soft cloning and the ability to have at least some form of insurance policy outside your capsule, however that's just my personal opinion. It's never been stated outright in prime fiction that it is or is not a thing. When I was a player I wrote fiction based around that principle. My view is that anything you put together needs to emphasize the fact you're still a sack of meat and are just as vulnerable to pain as anyone else out there, regardless of whether you can be killed and spat out of a vat with a bit of memory loss and a bad headache if you get killed out of pod.

No one in the right mind would put 100 percent faith in a piece of technology to keep them from dying. There's always that sliver of doubt in the back of your mind, especially with the stories of mindlocking and wetgraving that circulate. Whether you suck it up and get on with life, or worry about it is entirely down to your own character's mentality.

As I said earlier in the thread, I finished putting together the tech backstory for the capsule a while ago, and while capsuleers may arrogantly regard themselves as "immortal", fundamentally they aren't. The only thing that gives them as close to an immortal existence as is possible is the technology they're hooked up to, which due to its highly sensitive nature and bulkiness is not practical to be mobile.

My personal take on it is that if you were able to replicate the technology on a smaller scale that could be used anywhere by anyone, then you kind of dilute the entire purpose of the capsule and the capsuleer.

So a capsuleer can't just remain hooked up to a hydrostatic capsule and control a cybernetic avatar/robot of themselves through a helium-4 fluid router system much like they seem to do with combat drones and thus be the ultimate puppet-master they always wanted to be?

So a capsuleer can't just remain hooked up to a hydrostatic capsule and control a cybernetic avatar/robot of themselves through a helium-4 fluid router system much like they seem to do with combat drones and thus be the ultimate puppet-master they always wanted to be?

Am I wrong, or did Templar 1 imply that a Capsuleer could be killed out-of-pod and still re-awakened from a clone, but they'd lose memories between their last update and death? Or did I just hypothesise that while reading it?

So a capsuleer can't just remain hooked up to a hydrostatic capsule and control a cybernetic avatar/robot of themselves through a helium-4 fluid router system much like they seem to do with combat drones and thus be the ultimate puppet-master they always wanted to be?

I assume you'd need most of a ship as well. I mean, most frigates can barely handle drones, so a grounded Pod certainly can't. Even then, you're limited to relatively short ranges. A 'drone' more complex than default 'engines, guns and some sort of hull' would be really hard... and Drones even have on-board AI to manage as much as they do.



Am I wrong, or did Templar 1 imply that a Capsuleer could be killed out-of-pod and still re-awakened from a clone, but they'd lose memories between their last update and death? Or did I just hypothesise that while reading it?

While CONCORD frowns upon unlicensed capsule tech and illegal cloning, it's still rife as they have no way to regulate it outside their sphere of influence. If they did, the vast majority of pirate capsuleers, pirate faction officers and other dirty scoundrels would all be dead or in custody.

I think the important thing to remember is that a little bit of artistic license is always applicable whenever you're role playing. It's not as if anyone at CCP is going to turn around and say "YOU THERE, STOP THAT IMMEDIATELY, YOU'RE DOING IT WRONG!".

Prime fiction is there as a guide, a framework, not as a set of bars to keep you held in a cell and force your character to behave in a given way.

Personally, I'm all for soft cloning and the ability to have at least some form of insurance policy outside your capsule, however that's just my personal opinion. It's never been stated outright in prime fiction that it is or is not a thing. When I was a player I wrote fiction based around that principle. My view is that anything you put together needs to emphasize the fact you're still a sack of meat and are just as vulnerable to pain as anyone else out there, regardless of whether you can be killed and spat out of a vat with a bit of memory loss and a bad headache if you get killed out of pod.

No one in the right mind would put 100 percent faith in a piece of technology to keep them from dying. There's always that sliver of doubt in the back of your mind, especially with the stories of mindlocking and wetgraving that circulate. Whether you suck it up and get on with life, or worry about it is entirely down to your own character's mentality.

As I said earlier in the thread, I finished putting together the tech backstory for the capsule a while ago, and while capsuleers may arrogantly regard themselves as "immortal", fundamentally they aren't. The only thing that gives them as close to an immortal existence as is possible is the technology they're hooked up to, which due to its highly sensitive nature and bulkiness is not practical to be mobile.

My personal take on it is that if you were able to replicate the technology on a smaller scale that could be used anywhere by anyone, then you kind of dilute the entire purpose of the capsule and the capsuleer.

pilots have access to expensive cybernetics, expensive weapons, expensive armour and gear, and if it comes to that, can afford to pay for an elite bodyguard. The pilot themselves may or may not be a dangerous combatant, but the two ex-megacorporate "Personnel Affairs Agents" with DUST implants in their heads and augmented muscles who are following them at a discrete distance in nice and anonymous, but capacious suits?

Bear in mind, in real life there is such a thing as armoured clothing, to be worn by politicians. It's good enough to stop a 9mm handgun at point blank range. and in the EVE world, we know dropsuits have shield emitters, maybe you can buy more discreet ones that operate under clothing.

So the scenario is: you attack the capsuleer. With their heightened cybernetic reflexes, they dodge the attack, or with their expensive armoured executive clothing and shield emitter belt they are spared the worst of it. An instant later their bodyguard have drawn scrambler pistols and you are now a microwave dinner. The capsuleer pays any fines and expenses to the station management and loses the miniscule cost in a cunning tax return the next time they sell a shipment of missile launchers. Your corpse is thrown in the biomass vats and used to fertilise the stations' hydroponics bay.

If you think about it this is probably the most accurate. The fact that capsuleers are intimidating is almost entirely because of their massive amounts of wealth and lets face it, if you know that the guy you are talking to just docked a dreadnought in the hangar because you watched his ship come in and dock whilst dreaming of owning one yourself and roaming the stars you probably would not want to harm him anyway. Not just because there is likely a bodyguard that is/was a DUST soldier or ex-megacorp agent that would have you dead before you could move an inch if they suspected you meant harm to their employer who is paying them copious amounts of money that is legitimately just chump change for him/her but because you would just have the awe factor that they can command such massive machines of war and death.

As I said earlier in the thread, I finished putting together the tech backstory for the capsule a while ago, and while capsuleers may arrogantly regard themselves as "immortal", fundamentally they aren't. The only thing that gives them as close to an immortal existence as is possible is the technology they're hooked up to, which due to its highly sensitive nature and bulkiness is not practical to be mobile.

Frankly, my dear, if I had to kill you, I would use your elite DUST cyberwarrior bodyguard to do the job...

There is no impregnable security. Defenders must succeed 100% of the time, whereas agressors just need to succeed 1 chance in any random number. You can make the number high or very high and thus the chance low or very low, but anyway that time is going to come and agressors will win.

The best defense is that nobody wants to attack you. And capsuleers are notoriously inept at that.

The simple solution, should game mechanics evolve to the point where capsuleers getting out the pod to do stuff becomes a Thing, would be something along lines of:

Genolution 'Lazarus' implant - Latest implant from Genolution, the 'Lazarus' features an advanced recording suite, that allows memories of a persons actions to be integrated into a backup clone, should the user of the 'Lazarus' be killed outside of the capsule or cloning facility. This can be a disorientating experience, and associates of a Lazarus user are politely suggested not to tell the user how they died.

One of the Jovians in the Theodicy short story was killed outside of the capsule, but returned later on, and said something like "stop! do not tell me how I died!".

So, it could be done, maybe.

...The argument is... the fact that the brain can obviously be converted to data means that the data from a scan can be stored...

I think this is the key to the entire subject.


Indeed... And we're mostly wondering if a clone body with a DUST implant can still hold the capsuleer mind data...
Can it?

Indeed... And we're mostly wondering if a clone body with a DUST implant can still hold the capsuleer mind data...
Can it?

the cloning process involves making a detailed scan of somebody's brain and transmitting that to be uploaded into a new body.

If data can be transmitted, it can be stored. If it can be stored, then it can be used as a contingency in the event of the primary upload failing (this is my head-canon for the SP loss if you get podded with an inadequate clone).

If I were to design a mechanic for getting killed out of pod it would run as follows:

1: Backups. Every time you are podded or make a clone jump, you store "backup" information. You may also create a backup by spending some small amount of ISK. Your backup is your exact skill profile at that moment - number of skills, level of each skill, number of SP in each skill. You only have (and need) one backup at a time.

2: If you are killed out of pod, you restore from backup. This means that your character resets to the exact number of SP and number of skills they had at the point when the backup was made. if you're cautious, there's no reason you shouldn't lose more than a few thousand SP. If it's been forever since your last podding, clone jump or manual backup, though, you could stand to lose millions of SP.

3: If you can somehow recover your corpse and extract the cybernetic memory module from it, you can get back the lost SP.

One distinction that might be drawn in types of cloning is how well memories are kept. In the capsule rebirth, you remember everything up to the moment of death. A non-capsule rebirth might only restore the memories that were "backed up" during the last brain scan, or whatever. Or there may be ways to "transfer" memories even while out of pod, as is suggested in at least one chronicle.

The simple solution, should game mechanics evolve to the point where capsuleers getting out the pod to do stuff becomes a Thing, would be something along lines of:

Genolution 'Lazarus' implant - Latest implant from Genolution, the 'Lazarus' features an advanced recording suite, that allows memories of a persons actions to be integrated into a backup clone, should the user of the 'Lazarus' be killed outside of the capsule or cloning facility. This can be a disorientating experience, and associates of a Lazarus user are politely suggested not to tell the user how they died.

One of the Jovians in the Theodicy short story was killed outside of the capsule, but returned later on, and said something like "stop! do not tell me how I died!".

So, it could be done, maybe.

In the moment, you are only mortal human without your pod. But over think your wish to walk under your crew. If your a week in pvp and you lose many ships. How popular you think you are at your Crew. So i think your, will be saver in your pod, than under your crew members. Because the game of thrones are played in every universe. :-D

As a note:

My understanding of the soft clone argument does not involve a slower less invasive scan as was suggested early in the thread. It involves the same deadly scan that the capsuleer undergoes.

The argument is more that the fact that the brain can obviously be converted to data means that the data from a scan can be stored.

So what this would mean is that every time you get podded (or have a clone killed in lab to make a backup) you would be creating a new set of brain data that could be stored.

So, if you get killed out of pod then the memory of the time between when you "died" last and when someone killed the character out of pod would be what was lost.

On immortality, I think the more interesting question is whether the capsuleer's mind is as immortal as their ability to survive dying. We have as a bit of a joke the idea that he people who don't RP are afflicted by a disease that makes them think they aren't real. Capsuleer dementia is more a joke than anything else, but the underlying idea that mental disease and decay would be preserved from one clone to the next seems like it is something to consider.

It seems like that, rather than physical violence, is what would threaten a capsuleer's immortality.

It's very easy to say that The Broker was a one off, and that quite literally no else in the cluster would have access to the technology, funding and capability that he did. His pockets were quite literally bottomless. He also did not use the same technology as DUST mercs do, and was around way before the technology ever existed. It was several years after he died that it was discovered, concieved and reverse engineered.

It's also good to look up your prime fiction with regards to how the capsule works. The Neural burning hardware used in a capsule quite literally fries your brain during the process of capturing its state once the pod is breached, turning you into a dribbling simpleton. It's so intrusive that it bombards the brain with all kinds of nasty radiation and causes instant breakdown of cellular integrity and the destruction of tissue.

The capsule's on board systems effectively euthanize you once the scan is complete with a lethal dosage of a methylmercury based neurotoxin that quite easily crosses the blood brain barrier and causes massive damage, in order to prevent you from being exposed to vacuum and dying far more painfully and horribly.

I just finished writing the technical backstory surrounding the capsule and it's basic operating principles a few weeks back

It's not possible to be both a DUST mercenary and a capsuleer, hence why you have seperate characters for each purpose. The two technologies operate completely independantly of eachother and are so fundementally different that it makes them incompatible on the most basic of levels.

DUST mercenaries are an entirely different, albeit equally dangerous type of immortal.

Capsuleer true death can and has happened. A notable one is Gallente Admiral Alexander Noir. He was assassinated by The Broker so that he could take control of the Nyx-class supercarrier the FNS Wandering Saint and crash it into Ishukone Headquarters to frame the Federation.

What's the general stance on the essence of the capsuleer himself, his soul.

Does that even exist in the EVE universe or is that completely left out. Our ancestors come from milky way tho, so I suppose it does. .

So, what happens to your soul when you are made into a capsuleer / killed.

pilots have access to expensive cybernetics, expensive weapons, expensive armour and gear, and if it comes to that, can afford to pay for an elite bodyguard. The pilot themselves may or may not be a dangerous combatant, but the two ex-megacorporate "Personnel Affairs Agents" with DUST implants in their heads and augmented muscles who are following them at a discrete distance in nice and anonymous, but capacious suits?

Bear in mind, in real life there is such a thing as armoured clothing, to be worn by politicians. It's good enough to stop a 9mm handgun at point blank range. and in the EVE world, we know dropsuits have shield emitters, maybe you can buy more discreet ones that operate under clothing.

So the scenario is: you attack the capsuleer. With their heightened cybernetic reflexes, they dodge the attack, or with their expensive armoured executive clothing and shield emitter belt they are spared the worst of it. An instant later their bodyguard have drawn scrambler pistols and you are now a microwave dinner. The capsuleer pays any fines and expenses to the station management and loses the miniscule cost in a cunning tax return the next time they sell a shipment of missile launchers. Your corpse is thrown in the biomass vats and used to fertilise the stations' hydroponics bay.