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Zhu Dark Ministry of War Amarr Empire 0	Posted - 2013.07.28 03:35:00 - [1] - Quote I've got a Raven Navy Issue I've been thinking about blowing the dust off of. With the bonuses of velocity and explosion radius it just seems like it's begging to have torps fit (even if with the changes to torps and cruise). However, I can't seem to fit 8 tech 2, 3 missile rigs, and the basically required cap booster to it. I either blow the CPU or PG threshold. It's only got 5 lows which with 4 taken by BCUs that leaves one low slot to try to deal with the fitting problem. Anyone have any advice for getting 8 torps, 3 missile rigs and a cap booster wrangled?
Klymer Hedion University Amarr Empire 340	Posted - 2013.07.28 04:20:00 - [2] - Quote Since when is a cap booster a required mod for a torp fit? A prop mod on the other hand.... If you really want to fit them then you'll need implants and faction mods, launcher rigging V is also advisable.
Shereza Center for Advanced Studies Gallente Federation 168	Posted - 2013.07.28 04:46:00 - [3] - Quote [Raven Navy Issue, Torpedo - Sit & Spin] Caldari Navy Ballistic Control System Caldari Navy Ballistic Control System Caldari Navy Ballistic Control System Caldari Navy Ballistic Control System Co-Processor I Gist C-Type X-Large Shield Booster Gist A-Type EM Ward Field Gist A-Type Thermic Dissipation Field Medium Electrochemical Capacitor Booster I, Cap Booster 800 Phased Weapon Navigation Array Generation Extron Phased Weapon Navigation Array Generation Extron Phased Weapon Navigation Array Generation Extron Torpedo Launcher II, Mjolnir Torpedo Torpedo Launcher II, Mjolnir Torpedo Torpedo Launcher II, Mjolnir Torpedo Torpedo Launcher II, Mjolnir Torpedo Torpedo Launcher II, Mjolnir Torpedo Torpedo Launcher II, Mjolnir Torpedo Torpedo Launcher II, Mjolnir Torpedo Torpedo Launcher II, Mjolnir Torpedo Large Rocket Fuel Cache Partition II Large Hydraulic Bay Thrusters II Large Warhead Flare Catalyst I [Raven Navy Issue, Torpedo - Move & Groove] Caldari Navy Ballistic Control System Caldari Navy Ballistic Control System Caldari Navy Ballistic Control System Caldari Navy Ballistic Control System Shadow Serpentis Co-Processor Core X-Type 100MN Microwarpdrive Gist C-Type X-Large Shield Booster Gist A-Type EM Ward Field Gist A-Type Thermic Dissipation Field Phased Weapon Navigation Array Generation Extron Phased Weapon Navigation Array Generation Extron Phased Weapon Navigation Array Generation Extron Torpedo Launcher II, Mjolnir Torpedo Torpedo Launcher II, Mjolnir Torpedo Torpedo Launcher II, Mjolnir Torpedo Torpedo Launcher II, Mjolnir Torpedo Torpedo Launcher II, Mjolnir Torpedo Torpedo Launcher II, Mjolnir Torpedo Torpedo Launcher II, Mjolnir Torpedo Torpedo Launcher II, Mjolnir Torpedo Large Warhead Flare Catalyst I Large Warhead Flare Catalyst I Large Warhead Rigor Catalyst II I probably screwed up the rigs on the second one, but they're more for proof of concept on both fits in order to get the CPU costs right. Also, yeah, fitting and rigging skills at 5 is pretty close to a must, especially on the last build which has something like 2.5tf free with that particular CPU.
Goldensaver ArTech Expeditions 206	Posted - 2013.07.28 05:35:00 - [4] - Quote I would like to note that DG hardeners use substantially less CPU, have the same resist bonuses and are cheaper than the CN variants, while being not nearly as expensive as CN BCUs. Upgrading to those could have a significant effect on your fit working or not. If you've got the money, CN BCUs are also an option, but remember that the more bling you put on, the more of a gank target you become. For just about any fit, a co-processor in the 5th low is mandatory. All that aside, not much can be said. Honestly I'd really suggest cruise missiles as they do decently close to torp damage while applying better and having more range. They're pretty fantastic right now. But if you really do feel you want to torp fit it's up to you, go get 'em, have at it. It's your fit and I can't tell you what to do.
Bertrand Butler Cras es Noster 65	Posted - 2013.07.28 09:36:00 - [5] - Quote Here is a setup I have made and tested for the job at hand, holds true against any L4 mission. It might give you some ideas...C: [Raven Navy Issue, Odyssey L4 PvE Raven Navy Issue] Co-Processor II Caldari Navy Ballistic Control System Caldari Navy Ballistic Control System Ballistic Control System II Ballistic Control System II Adaptive Invulnerability Field II Dread Guristas Large Shield Booster Shadow Serpentis 100MN Microwarpdrive Pith C-Type Kinetic Deflection Field Pith C-Type Thermic Dissipation Field Shield Boost Amplifier II Republic Fleet Target Painter Torpedo Launcher II Torpedo Launcher II Torpedo Launcher II Torpedo Launcher II Torpedo Launcher II Torpedo Launcher II Torpedo Launcher II Torpedo Launcher II Large Warhead Rigor Catalyst I Large Warhead Rigor Catalyst I Large Warhead Rigor Catalyst I Hammerhead II Hobgoblin II Read more: http://eve.battleclinic.com/loadout/66268-Odyssey-L4-PvE-Raven-Navy-Issue.html#ixzz2aKbmpteL
Garviel Tarrant Beyond Divinity Inc Shadow Cartel 1202	Posted - 2013.07.28 09:53:00 - [6] - Quote If you're doing missions you really should be using Cruise.. Its better... BYDI recruitment closed-ish
Guywood Threepbrush Motsu Mission Monkeys 1	Posted - 2013.07.28 12:02:00 - [7] - Quote erm yeah. torps on a CNR is a poor idea.
Tsukino Stareine The Red Circle Inc. 608	Posted - 2013.07.28 12:10:00 - [8] - Quote If its got fitting issues with torps how does that mean it's "begging" to be fit with torps >.>? Use cruise, they are better.
Zhu Dark Ministry of War Amarr Empire 0	Posted - 2013.07.28 14:32:00 - [9] - Quote Those are all good fits. Using cruise does seem to be a better idea. There's only a 12-ish percent difference in raw dps and with the explosion radius and velocity changes it looks like they have more applied dps as well. I've been playing around with a cruise fit and just realized that unless you're using furies, the CN variant launcher does more raw dps than their tech 2 counter part. It comes down to the fact that the rate of fire of the the CN version is more than 10% better than the tech 2 launchers. So even if you have cruise spec V, the CN version still spews missiles faster. Also, is there much reason to use the RNI any more? I build out a SNI and have exactly the same raw dps with slightly worse application (10% vs cruisers and smaller) with a utility high, utility mid, higher shield/armor, and higher resistances. As far as I can tell the only reduced item is you can carry 3 more backup drones in the RNI.
stoicfaux 2980	Posted - 2013.07.28 15:43:00 - [10] - Quote Zhu Dark wrote: Also, is there much reason to use the RNI any more? I build out a SNI and have exactly the same raw dps with slightly worse application (10% vs cruisers and smaller) with a utility high, utility mid, higher shield/armor, and higher resistances. As far as I can tell the only reduced item is you can carry 3 more backup drones in the RNI. They're about the same in terms of damage projection and applied damage. The CNR's advantages over the SNI are a free Rigor rig (which isn't really needed if your support skills are at V, but it's still nice when shooting in TP falloff,) a missile velocity bonus that reduces DPS loss from volley miscounting, and the ability to field three sentries versus two for the SNI, assuming you can be bothered to use sentries. Also, the CNR suffers a bit less versus NPC defenders (16.7% loss versus 12.5% loss.) The SNI's advantages are an easy tank, easy fitting (CNR is tight on CPU due to missile rig CPU penalty,) an extra mid (for prop mods and/or more TPs,) better sensor range and strength, and a six second launcher cycle versus the CNR's eight, which means you can kill faster than the CNR (or at least make up time for miscounted volleys or TP falloff.) Also, tractor beam. Overall, I would give the CNR a slight to moderate advantage due to the missile velocity bonus. tl;dr - If the question is CNR versus SNI for level 4s, the answer is "meh."

Guywood Threepbrush Motsu Mission Monkeys 1	Posted - 2013.07.28 15:47:00 - [11] - Quote I would think that the bonuses work out better for missioning with the RNI. Even if you do the same dps with the SNI it will be at the expense of a lot more ammo.
IIshira School of Applied Knowledge Caldari State 137	Posted - 2013.07.28 15:51:00 - [12] - Quote Zhu Dark wrote: Those are all good fits. Using cruise does seem to be a better idea. There's only a 12-ish percent difference in raw dps and with the explosion radius and velocity changes it looks like they have more applied dps as well. I've been playing around with a cruise fit and just realized that unless you're using furies, the CN variant launcher does more raw dps than their tech 2 counter part. It comes down to the fact that the rate of fire of the the CN version is more than 10% better than the tech 2 launchers. So even if you have cruise spec V, the CN version still spews missiles faster. You're leaving out one very tiny thing... T2 Fury Cruise missiles... Even with overpriced faction missiles you still do less DPS. Plus adding 500 mill worth of faction launchers to an already faction/deadspace fit ship is like posting a sign that says "Please... Pretty please gank me!"
stoicfaux 2980	Posted - 2013.07.28 16:13:00 - [13] - Quote Guywood Threepbrush wrote: I would think that the bonuses work out better for missioning with the RNI. Even if you do the same dps with the SNI it will be at the expense of a lot more ammo. Actually, the SNI should be cheaper to run in terms of ammo. I ran the numbers a while ago (there's a thread somewhere,) and the Volleys To Kill numbers on a sub-set of edge case NPCs didn't show an advantage in the CNR's higher volley damage. Meaning, if the CNR could kill it in one or two volleys, then the SNI took one or two volleys as well. If the CNR killed it in three volleys then the SNI killed it in four volleys, which is the same number of missiles (3 * 8 = 24 for the CNR, 4 * 6 = 24 for the SNI.) It also means that the SNI is saving 2-4 seconds against small stuff, and is matching kill times against battleships. So, if anything, a Raven hull (with both the missile speed and missile RoF bonus) might be better than both the CNR and SNI.
Roseline Penshar Illusory Superiority R O G U E 13	Posted - 2013.07.28 21:15:00 - [14] - Quote if you use RNI always use 1 rigor and 2 flare for rigs no matter cruise or torp
Goldensaver ArTech Expeditions 206	Posted - 2013.07.28 22:02:00 - [15] - Quote Roseline Penshar wrote: if you use RNI always use 1 rigor and 2 flare for rigs no matter cruise or torp I disagree. Based on the missile damage formula a stacking penalized Rigor is still better than a stacking penalized flare. Even if you have a bonus to missile explosion radius.
stoicfaux 2984	Posted - 2013.07.28 22:30:00 - [16] - Quote Roseline Penshar wrote: if you use RNI always use 1 rigor and 2 flare for rigs no matter cruise or torp Nope. 2xRigor and 1 Flare is the best combo for applied damage, OTOH, the difference should be close enough that it doesn't affect the number of volleys needed to kill.
Ireland VonVicious Vicious Trading Company 180	Posted - 2013.07.29 00:04:00 - [17] - Quote Don't fit like anything posted in this thread! If you want to run TP's and disruptors or anything else like that use a cruise fit. If you want to use a Torp fit, build it for fleet use only. Be the huge DPS and nothing more. Have 3 or more TP's and 3 or more webs in your fleet. Have logi! No reason to run a torp ship if fleet has no logi. You just resist/buffer tank/prop mod with a single point or TP. (( Worth full tank if your fleet is worth a damn )) If you don't have the fleet to fit it this way you should not be using it with torps. I really hope you are not trying to do this for PvE.
Lojak 2501 Redneck Luftwaffe The Last Chancers. 16	Posted - 2013.07.29 02:49:00 - [18] - Quote why are ppl fitting 4 BCS? i was under the impression that 3 was the limit and after that the bonus u get from the 4th isnt enough to cover the lost slot due to diminishing return
Zhu Dark Ministry of War Amarr Empire 0	Posted - 2013.07.29 02:51:00 - [19] - Quote Don't know what I'm going to use it for. I'm just recently back from an extended break from Eve and I'm still trying to catch up with all the changes. I'm really thinking about just wholesaling the hull and switching to the SNI. With the extra mid I can actually fit a point and a web while still having a brick of a tank. I'm sticking with highsec for a while doing missions to relearn how to fly properly and earn a little brainless ISK while I do it. My secondary ship is a tengu. Even with implants and the kinetic bonus it's still pretty slow kill anything bigger than a cruiser. I'm hoping the BS will have a little more punch while i can just leave the frigs to the drones. BTW, what happened to drone aggro? Even after I pull a group, as soon as i drop drones they seem to be the primary target.
IbanezLaney The Church of Awesome A T O N E M E N T 497	Posted - 2013.07.29 03:56:00 - [20] - Quote Lojak 2501 wrote: why are ppl fitting 4 BCS? i was under the impression that 3 was the limit and after that the bonus u get from the 4th isnt enough to cover the lost slot due to diminishing return This is how I remember it too. A damage control would be more useful for some extra resists. Or even though it isn't a drone boat maybe a drone damage amp would help more if missions still have those pesky scramming frigates. Fix this **** See Sea Pea.

Caitlyn Tufy Bene Gesserit ChapterHouse Sanctuary Pact 369	Posted - 2013.07.29 06:16:00 - [21] - Quote Lojak 2501 wrote: why are ppl fitting 4 BCS? i was under the impression that 3 was the limit and after that the bonus u get from the 4th isnt enough to cover the lost slot due to diminishing return This highly depends on what else you could put into that slot. With gunships, you have to balance dps and tracking, giving you limited slots to play with. With missiles, though, you can only put BCUs into low slots, at which point it's a question of more tank (damage control) vs. about 60 extra dps. And since you should run with as much dps as possible in pve, BCU almost always wins. Quote: Or even though it isn't a drone boat maybe a drone damage amp would help more if missions still have those pesky scramming frigates. You get less dps out of a DDA than you do out of the 4th BCU. However, some fits use a DDA in CNR's fifth slot to boost the drone damage a bit.
Tsukino Stareine The Red Circle Inc. 613	Posted - 2013.07.29 07:02:00 - [22] - Quote 4th BCS allows many rats to take one less volley to kill.
Shereza Center for Advanced Studies Gallente Federation 169	Posted - 2013.07.29 08:42:00 - [23] - Quote IIshira wrote: Plus adding 500 mill worth of faction launchers to an already faction/deadspace fit ship is like posting a sign that says "Please... Pretty please gank me!" People keep posting stuff like that yet in the seven years that I've been playing I've never seen it actually work out that way. Personally, I think being stupid puts up a bigger "Please... Pretty please gank me!" sign than putting expensive stuff on your ship does. I say that as someone who routinely flies 500m+ ships with 2b+ worth of modules on them and hasn't come close to losing any of them.
Malcanis Vanishing Point. The Initiative. 11027	Posted - 2013.07.29 10:54:00 - [24] - Quote Caitlyn Tufy wrote: Quote: Or even though it isn't a drone boat maybe a drone damage amp would help more if missions still have those pesky scramming frigates. You get less dps out of a DDA than you do out of the 4th BCU. However, some fits use a DDA in CNR's fifth slot to boost the drone damage a bit. I do this and I recommend it. The paper DPS figure is less imporant than killing off those nasty elite frigates when you have a ship that just barely has enough tank. 1 Kings 12:11
Bertrand Butler Cras es Noster 65	Posted - 2013.07.29 10:58:00 - [25] - Quote I always thought that the 4 BCU (3 CN, one T2) + 1 T2 DDA was the standard for the RNI. Gank is king in PvE, and the faster you destroy a DPS spike the less tank you need to finish the room. A DDA is a very good choice, it gives you the ability to down frigs fast while multitasking the spike (missiles against the biggest DPS or towers, drones against the scramblers-webs). A DC is an odd module to use in L4 PvE, you should have a pretty adequate active tank without it.
Morrigan LeSante The Lost and Forgotten Troopers 314	Posted - 2013.07.29 11:08:00 - [26] - Quote I ended up leaving the DDA mainly off in favour of a sensor mod - its just so tight a fit, you can barely get the right stuff on it and the DDA just eats up a lot of CPU for something I dont seem to miss in game.
Bugsy VanHalen Society of lost Souls 756	Posted - 2013.07.29 17:20:00 - [27] - Quote Zhu Dark wrote: Don't know what I'm going to use it for. I'm just recently back from an extended break from Eve and I'm still trying to catch up with all the changes. I'm really thinking about just wholesaling the hull and switching to the SNI. With the extra mid I can actually fit a point and a web while still having a brick of a tank. I'm sticking with highsec for a while doing missions to relearn how to fly properly and earn a little brainless ISK while I do it. My secondary ship is a tengu. Even with implants and the kinetic bonus it's still pretty slow kill anything bigger than a cruiser. I'm hoping the BS will have a little more punch while i can just leave the frigs to the drones. BTW, what happened to drone aggro? Even after I pull a group, as soon as i drop drones they seem to be the primary target. LOL, drone agro, yes, They have been repeatedly "tweaking" it, without ever mentioning it in the patch notes. Still it is much better than it was. BS's will now not target light or medium drones, but when sending them after elite frigates you pretty much have to put them on passive and control them manually. They also often get targeted by frigates they do not even agro. Often frigates you agro will switch to the drones. If you baby sit them you will not lose many, but the days of setting them on auto agro, and leaving them to deal with frigs while you kill the rest are long gone. Drones now have to be micro managed to survive. On top of that some sites/spawns hate drones more than others. They now have a bar that controls hate generated by drones. for a while they had it turned down to the point drones were almost the same as they used to be. Now they are messing with it again.
Zor'katar Matari Recreation 140	Posted - 2013.07.29 17:34:00 - [28] - Quote Bugsy VanHalen wrote: They now have a bar that controls hate generated by drones. for a while they had it turned down to the point drones were almost the same as they used to be. Now they are messing with it again. Source?
stoicfaux 2991	Posted - 2013.07.29 18:37:00 - [29] - Quote Zor'katar wrote: Bugsy VanHalen wrote: They now have a bar that controls hate generated by drones. for a while they had it turned down to the point drones were almost the same as they used to be. Now they are messing with it again. Source? http://community.eveonline.com/news/dev-blogs/73413 http://evenews24.com/2012/10/04/dev-post-update-on-the-upcoming-npc-ai-changes/
Zhu Dark Ministry of War Amarr Empire 2	Posted - 2013.07.29 21:35:00 - [30] - Quote I always leave my drones on passive. I would pull a single group, make sure they were all targeting me, and then drop the drones on the frigs. It seemed like every frig in the group would immediately switch to the drones. This was with a flight of medium drones. I have since switched to light drones and what do you know. Haven't lost one yet, or even had one shot at.



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