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Satav
Latinum Exports
73
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Posted - 2011.10.26 15:37:00 -
[1] - Quote
Just thought i'd throw a question out there to see what u guys think.
Will Battleships still be relevant tools in large fleet warfare after the addition of tier 3 BCs?
Since a lot (not all) BS fleets are alpha fleets anyway is there any point in flying a BS anymore?
Looking forward to your input.
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Jenn Makanen
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
28
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Posted - 2011.10.26 15:56:00 -
[2] - Quote
Not having a paper thin tank?
Equal numbers against equal numbers, the higher tank wins. Unless you are foolish and just have everyone target a single ship, when you could be targeting two and taking both out. |
Kamden Line
Scordite Excavating Xenaphobe
7
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Posted - 2011.10.26 16:00:00 -
[3] - Quote
Jenn Makanen wrote:Not having a paper thin tank?
Equal numbers against equal numbers, the higher tank wins. Unless you are foolish and just have everyone target a single ship, when you could be targeting two and taking both out.
Do you even play this game? |
Karl Planck
Labyrinth Obtaining Chaotic Kangaroos
14
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Posted - 2011.10.26 16:05:00 -
[4] - Quote
Of course they will be. If i had a guess, for fleet fights i would say BS's are going to be the new anti-support fleet ship. With caps being able to do f*ck all to sub caps, BS hordes would demolish the new bc's. The new BC's seem like they are going to be primarliy anti-cap ships (lower sig radius than reg bc, huge damage, low tank).
But thats only a guess |
Algathas
Drama Llamas
2
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Posted - 2011.10.26 16:11:00 -
[5] - Quote
If you look at why alpha fleets are around then it will give you your answer.
The alpha fleet is designed to overcome the buffer tank of a ship so fast that the logistics don't have time to rep it.
If the fleet is made of ships with not enough tank, then they will pop before they can even get reps or in spite of being repped.
I agree with the poster that said the new ships are probably anti-cap weapons. If they made the drones/superweapons not work on smaller ships as well, and have smaller ships that can field large guns, those small ships would be weak against their similar sized counterparts but may do well vs the caps. |
Vimsy Vortis
Shoulda Checked Local
Break-A-Wish Foundation
49
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Posted - 2011.10.26 16:26:00 -
[6] - Quote
Vindicators will always be relevant. |
Borun Tal
Space Pods Inc
0
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Posted - 2011.10.26 16:45:00 -
[7] - Quote
The new ships strike me as great gank tools...  |
Kaaeliaa
Frikt Ikke
0
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Posted - 2011.10.26 18:29:00 -
[8] - Quote
Here's a great reason not to use large fleets of the new paper-thin BCs in fleet action: stealth bombers (who even get brand new tech 2 bomb launchers, if the leaks are true). Battleships can still have much bigger buffers. |
Dibblerette
East India Ore Trade
Apocalypse Now.
1
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Posted - 2011.10.27 01:19:00 -
[9] - Quote
Kaaeliaa wrote:Here's a great reason not to use large fleets of the new paper-thin BCs in fleet action: stealth bombers (who even get brand new tech 2 bomb launchers, if the leaks are true). Battleships can still have much bigger buffers.
Also, drone bays. According to leaks, the gallente T3 BC is the only one capable of fielding drones, and then only one set of lights, unbonused. |
Katie Frost
Asgard.
Exodus.
9
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Posted - 2011.10.27 01:31:00 -
[10] - Quote
Remember that this is a T3 ship. If T3 Cruisers are anything to go by, the T3 Battlecruisers will be expensive to field. Battleships will still be a more financially viable option for large fleets.
So if T3 BCs tend to mimic T1 BS's in DPS and even in tank, they will carry 3-4x the pricetag.... so yes, BS class is still very relevant. |
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Demon View
24th Imperial Crusade
Amarr Empire
8
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Posted - 2011.10.27 01:39:00 -
[11] - Quote
Katie Frost wrote:Remember that this is a T3 ship. If T3 Cruisers are anything to go by,
Tier 3, not Tech 3.
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Goose99
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
85
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Posted - 2011.10.27 02:25:00 -
[12] - Quote
Kaaeliaa wrote:Here's a great reason not to use large fleets of the new paper-thin BCs in fleet action: stealth bombers (who even get brand new tech 2 bomb launchers, if the leaks are true). Battleships can still have much bigger buffers.
They have much smaller sigs than current bcs though. Plus given the cost of those bcs, it's dubious how smart using sb blob against them really is...
The other thing is, due to the nature of alpha blobs, a fast small sig boat can actually live longer than buffer BS when against a lot of 1400s. Make a blob of those fast small sig boats, and you have some serious staying power. |
Mekhana
Spiritus Draconis
246
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Posted - 2011.10.27 06:15:00 -
[13] - Quote
The new BCs aren't made to take out Battleships 1v1. Though they probably can do it very well in wolfpacks. |
Cannibal Kane
Umkhonto we Sizwe
43
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Posted - 2011.10.27 08:31:00 -
[14] - Quote
Katie Frost wrote:Remember that this is a T3 ship. If T3 Cruisers are anything to go by, the T3 Battlecruisers will be expensive to field. Battleships will still be a more financially viable option for large fleets.
So if T3 BCs tend to mimic T1 BS's in DPS and even in tank, they will carry 3-4x the pricetag.... so yes, BS class is still very relevant.
Lol Tier 3 is not the same as Tech 3.
These are Tier 3 BC's.
One universal Demerit for you.
The Crazy South African.
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Cillet Baang Scott
University of Caille
Gallente Federation
0
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Posted - 2011.10.27 08:34:00 -
[15] - Quote
I fly loki and battleships near exclusively. The rest of my corp fly battleships maybe half to the time as well. It's stupid to say they are past their day.
-Machs
-Nightmares
-pirate BS in general
-baddons (consistantly ahead of canes on evekill top 20)
-maels
-tempests
-RR BS
-Solo hypes
^ All of that basically. |
Wylee Coyote
Imperial Academy
Amarr Empire
19
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Posted - 2011.10.27 14:43:00 -
[16] - Quote
If the leaked tier3 BC info is true (and I'm reading it correctly), the new BCs have 8 highs but only 4-5 turrets (and can fit BS sized weapons). I am unable to understand how a ship with only 4-5 BS sized weapons, no drones (except lights for Gallente) and (supposed) crap for tank will replace a BS with 8 BS sized weapons (6 for Dominix), BS hp and tank and drones. |
Satav
Latinum Exports
73
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Posted - 2011.10.27 16:19:00 -
[17] - Quote
Thank you for the constructive input. I appreciate all your comments. |
Onictus
Legendary Knights
Vorpal's Edge
3
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Posted - 2011.10.29 10:42:00 -
[18] - Quote
Wylee Coyote wrote:If the leaked tier3 BC info is true (and I'm reading it correctly), the new BCs have 8 highs but only 4-5 turrets (and can fit BS sized weapons). I am unable to understand how a ship with only 4-5 BS sized weapons, no drones (except lights for Gallente) and (supposed) crap for tank will replace a BS with 8 BS sized weapons (6 for Dominix), BS hp and tank and drones.
Exactly, I might start taking my nano-bs's out more just to bitchslap T3 BCs.
It'll be a new wrinkle, that is for certain. |
Hidden Snake
Inglorious-Basterds
0
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Posted - 2011.10.29 16:12:00 -
[19] - Quote
If they will have bs alfa or 700+ dps I am game ;) .... Gank/some nano or buffer and lot of fun. Bss are buffer fleet monsters ... I might get back to pvp from my meditation. |
Aessaya
Fairlight Corp
Rooks and Kings
9
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Posted - 2011.10.29 19:58:00 -
[20] - Quote
I think the new BCs will be somewhere around Command Ships for dps and nowhere near for tank, but maneuverable as other BCs. Should be great for small/medium wolfpacks to pick off stragglers and vanish before the main fleet reacts.
There's one thing, though, that worries me: the fate of HACs. They've already seen a lot of decrease in usage since nano nerf and Tech3 introduction, they vere hit greatly by tier 2 BC introduction as well. I'm afraid these new BCs might strike a finishing blow on this once universally feared shipclass or leave them only a niche role (think vagabonds). Yet i eagerly avait the rise of sniper bc gangs made up of tier 3 BCs :)
Ah, you seek meaning?-áThen listen to the music, not the song. |
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Vricrolatious
Wildly Inappropriate
Goonswarm Federation
39
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Posted - 2011.10.30 02:15:00 -
[21] - Quote
Karl Planck wrote:Of course they will be. If i had a guess, for fleet fights i would say BS's are going to be the new anti-support fleet ship. With caps being able to do f*ck all to sub caps, BS hordes would demolish the new bc's. The new BC's seem like they are going to be primarliy anti-cap ships (lower sig radius than reg bc, huge damage, low tank).
But thats only a guess
If the leaked stats stay as they are, the Naga looks like heavy, non cloaking bomber with the torp bonuses. It should make things interesting, at least I hope.
WIDot, Best Dot, Even Sans Dot!
-Vric |
Nyla Skin
Pew Pew Corp
Behold.
18
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Posted - 2011.10.30 23:51:00 -
[22] - Quote
Satav wrote:Just thought i'd throw a question out there to see what u guys think.
Will Battleships still be relevant tools in large fleet warfare after the addition of tier 3 BCs?
Since a lot (not all) BS fleets are alpha fleets anyway is there any point in flying a BS anymore?
Looking forward to your input.
After the nerfs to capitals and supercapitals (not being able/having tough time killing subcapitals), Im pretty sure battleships are going to have a huge increase in popularity. |
Bad Messenger
draketrain
10
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Posted - 2011.10.31 07:58:00 -
[23] - Quote
Cillet Baang Scott wrote:
-Machs
Machariel is not really bs, it is cruiser with BS size guns and capital size model. |
Trinkets friend
Sudden Buggery
13
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Posted - 2011.10.31 08:42:00 -
[24] - Quote
Battleships will still have their place in Empire war decs, where you need a buffer to survive deaggroing so you can dock up and then sit in station for 5 hours bawwing in Local about how neutral RR sucks and it was unfair.
The 3t BC's are going to get vaped on undock games, plus or minus neutral RR being effective. Without neutral RR I wouldn't undock something as thin as 35K EHP.
BS's are still valuable for lowsec piracy, where you need to tank gate guns. Also for POS sieges, where you need the ability to weather a bit of punishment.
The 3t BC's will come into their own in roaming fleets, where you will be able to use their maneuverability to kite the enemy and hopefully survive the incoming DPS while laying crazy DPS on the foe. However, they still have BS sized guns, and (pending stats) PYFA suggests 0.05r/s tracking on the Tornado vs 0.13 on a Cyclone or Cane with 425's. These Bc's will be heavily vulnerable to cruisers and HACs (except perhaps the Talos if it gets its webs in). I will enjoy seeing the first rash of killmails from these things. I wouldn't take one toe vs toe with a Vaga, Cyna or even a Dramiel or Daredevil.
The skilful employer of men will employ the wise man, the brave man, the covetous man, and the stupid man.
Sun Tzu
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Hidden Snake
Inglorious-Basterds
0
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Posted - 2011.10.31 09:59:00 -
[25] - Quote
Aessaya wrote:I think the new BCs will be somewhere around Command Ships for dps and nowhere near for tank, but maneuverable as other BCs. Should be great for small/medium wolfpacks to pick off stragglers and vanish before the main fleet reacts.
There's one thing, though, that worries me: the fate of HACs. They've already seen a lot of decrease in usage since nano nerf and Tech3 introduction, they vere hit greatly by tier 2 BC introduction as well. I'm afraid these new BCs might strike a finishing blow on this once universally feared shipclass or leave them only a niche role (think vagabonds). Yet i eagerly avait the rise of sniper bc gangs made up of tier 3 BCs :)
HACs had been hitted hard with rise of the navy cruisers. I personally like most of the navy cruisers over the HACs.
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Jamaican Herbsman
I Love You Mary Jane
12
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Posted - 2011.11.02 00:33:00 -
[26] - Quote
Demon View wrote:Katie Frost wrote:Remember that this is a T3 ship. If T3 Cruisers are anything to go by, Tier 3, not Tech 3.
This will never end
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How2FoldSoup
Hull Tanking Elitists
6
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Posted - 2011.11.03 19:44:00 -
[27] - Quote
Wylee Coyote wrote:If the leaked tier3 BC info is true (and I'm reading it correctly), the new BCs have 8 highs but only 4-5 turrets (and can fit BS sized weapons). I am unable to understand how a ship with only 4-5 BS sized weapons, no drones (except lights for Gallente) and (supposed) crap for tank will replace a BS with 8 BS sized weapons (6 for Dominix), BS hp and tank and drones.
You are reading it wrong, each ship gets ~8 hardpoints for its racial weapon system. I too COULD be wrong too so I'd love to be corrected if I were. With the first notes using the talos as an example it could push an upwards of 1400 dps so these aren't anything to talk badly about. This of course was a glass cannon fit and before they took out drones. |
Teamosil
Good Time Family Band Solution
41
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Posted - 2011.11.03 22:12:00 -
[28] - Quote
Demon View wrote:Katie Frost wrote:Remember that this is a T3 ship. If T3 Cruisers are anything to go by, Tier 3, not Tech 3.
They really need names that start with different letters... |
Calapine
Xeno Tech Corp
Flatline.
79
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Posted - 2011.11.03 23:52:00 -
[29] - Quote
Teamosil wrote:Demon View wrote:
Tier 3, not Tech 3.
They really need names that start with different letters...
Maybe Grade? As in Tech 1 Grade 3...
Re OP: It's really hard to answer without knowing the actual tank and having a working fit. I remember seeing a Tornado Arty setup with 39k EHP being posted. If those numbers are correct CCP failed at the 'paper-thin-tank' part and instead introduced a new wave of FOTM pwn-ships.
Cala |
Killstealing
Broski Enterprises
Elite Space Guild
127
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Posted - 2011.11.04 18:16:00 -
[30] - Quote
Calapine wrote:Teamosil wrote:Demon View wrote:
Tier 3, not Tech 3.
They really need names that start with different letters... Maybe Grade? As in Tech 1 Grade 3...
Re OP: It's really hard to answer without knowing the actual tank and having a working fit. I remember seeing a Tornado Arty setup with 39k EHP being posted. If those numbers are correct CCP failed at the 'paper-thin-tank' part and instead introduced a new wave of FOTM pwn-ships. Cala
39k is pretty thin bro, maels can get twice as much |
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