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thanks for taking out honest miners with the drone nerf

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Rekindle	Posted - 2005.12.17 13:43:00 - [1] I'm not sure what the philosphy is or what it was -- but I've been acustomed to having 2-3 medium drones in my barge's drone bay to pick off the wee bitty rats in my .5 system. 8/10 my medium drones would do decent against a 9-13k rat. Just before RMR I took the time to train up Drones V and to begin getting heavier drones after the nerf. I remember saying for weeks before RMR they're nerfing drones and everyone would say "oh noes its not a nerf". Well guess what? I fly a Retriever and can fit one heavy drone or 2 medium drones which generally get owned in a short manner of time. I just can't wait to take the thorax out. Now, I'm not sure if you're expectations are that a barge is to be accompanied by some type of fighter escort in anything below .6 but as far as my intermediate skill and knowledge in this game shows me(4mil sp here) thats basically whats happened. I understand you needed to shake the nerf bat at drones for the large fleet battles and for the afk miners-- but some of us actually do sit at the keyboard when they mine and you've shut [us] me down too. not good, not happy...and training drones up to r5 and spending money on the other skills seems like a bit waste of time too. ------------------------------------------- CEO of NAMA Corp http://evenama.proboards75.com
Avon	Posted - 2005.12.17 14:14:00 - [2] The solutions to your problems are contained in your post. ______________________________________________ The Battleships is not and should not be a solo pwnmobile - Oveur
Brannigan McCormick	Posted - 2005.12.17 14:18:00 - [3] I think the most important part here is the "Drones are not being nerfed" CCP statement, complimented by a whole slew of calculations and whatnot. Looks like they are, at least for Barge pilots. /Bran - Its good for you
Wee Dave	Posted - 2005.12.17 14:26:00 - [4] No ... what's happened to drones is that they're more skill intensive. That's neither a nerf nor a boost. If you train drone interfacing you will do much more damage with your drones than previously.
Jonathan Davis	Posted - 2005.12.17 14:30:00 - [5] Ohno!! QUick everyone, lets give barges special bonuses to drones so they wont have to train up the drone skills like EVERYONE ELSE. Or maybe just nerf NPC rats so they are espcially vunerable to drones from barges. Cause heaven forbid the barge pilots stop training mining skills, the economy would collapse from the lack of minerals.
Rekindle	Posted - 2005.12.17 14:31:00 - [6] Edited by: Rekindle on 17/12/2005 14:36:06 Before you post -- go get in a retriever load up 1 drone and get back to me. No matter how good your skills are if there are 6 rats and one drone you're gonna get hit. Maybe thats the intent, or maybe they didn't do testing. But I knew the number of drones was gonna be nerfed but 1 drone is gonna take quite a bit of time to take out 6 rats no matter how tough it is. As far as the skills required -- Time sink???? "to get drones back to the way you had them 2 days ago you're gonna need to train up 5 skills, have fun." i'm not talking about taking out 5 100k rats here - I have drones 5, which I feel is a significant investment of time (working on the other ones too just not at r5 yet) and yet they're all being popped by ****ty .5 sec rats. Its not right, sorry. ------------------------------------------- CEO of NAMA Corp http://evenama.proboards75.com
St Dragon	Posted - 2005.12.17 14:40:00 - [7] Originally by: Rekindle Edited by: Rekindle on 17/12/2005 14:36:06 Before you post -- go get in a retriever load up 1 drone and get back to me. No matter how good your skills are if there are 6 rats and one drone you're gonna get hit. Maybe thats the intent, or maybe they didn't do testing. But I knew the number of drones was gonna be nerfed but 1 drone is gonna take quite a bit of time to take out 6 rats no matter how tough it is. As far as the skills required -- Time sink???? "to get drones back to the way you had them 2 days ago you're gonna need to train up 5 skills, have fun." i'm not talking about taking out 5 100k rats here - I have drones 5, which I feel is a significant investment of time (working on the other ones too just not at r5 yet) and yet they're all being popped by ****ty .5 sec rats. Its not right, sorry. Get a combat friend if you are too lazy to train up those drone skills and to fit a drone module or 2
Rekindle	Posted - 2005.12.17 14:48:00 - [8] I don't remember reading in the patch notes: -People who mine by themselves from time to time have been nerfed. To restore your ability to mine by yourself you're going to need to invest 1 month of training in drones to restore your abiltiies. ------------------------------------------- CEO of NAMA Corp http://evenama.proboards75.com
Brannigan McCormick	Posted - 2005.12.17 14:51:00 - [9] As far as I understood on all the calculations done by both devs and players, the whole essence of the drone change was to lessen the amount of drones in space, and then boost them, so the their effectiveness was somewhat comparable to what they were before. Looking on OPs post, it looks like this is not the case, at least not for barges (may be for combat ships), and then I just think that the dev post telling that, in effect, the change would be minimal, are not correct. 2-3 barges with 8 meds each, could easily mine in .4 before, without an escort, and it looks like this is not the case now. /Bran - Its good for you
Rekindle	Posted - 2005.12.17 14:52:00 - [10] Thanks , thats my point exactly. ------------------------------------------- CEO of NAMA Corp http://evenama.proboards75.com
Gonada	Posted - 2005.12.17 14:58:00 - [11] at least fix the dammed AI -I don't necessarily agree with everything I say.-
Rafein	Posted - 2005.12.17 15:20:00 - [12] Use 5 smalls in a Retreiver, and train up some defensive skills. I know with the Covetor and 5 Mediums, I can splat any spawns without worry.
Savion Marquis	Posted - 2005.12.17 15:21:00 - [13] Edited by: Savion Marquis on 17/12/2005 15:21:57 He could train all of the drone skills to 5, but he'd still only be able to run 1 heavy drone, regardless of what is said that's reduced how effective they are. While I like the drone changes I don't feel barge's drone bay should have been hit so hard.
Chuey	Posted - 2005.12.17 15:32:00 - [14] Originally by: Rafein Use 5 smalls in a Retreiver Exactly, dont HAVE to use Meds or Heavies, Lights are fast and hard to hit, do better damage than pre RMR and u can use 5, so whats the problem? People need to learn to adapt. Someone stirs the pot and suddenly we're drench in posts of people *****ing cause they cant do something exactly how they done it for the last few months before the "Nerf", and I for one am sick of it. I wonder how many people who use Ravens still consider the Missile Changes a Nerf, I know I dont, hell they're better than ever if u take the time to train them. Drones will be the same.
Thomus	Posted - 2005.12.17 15:49:00 - [15] Pre-RMR: 10 Hammerhead I Drones, could fly 8 of them. They could just about keep me going in 0.5. Post-RMR: 5 Hammerhead I fit now, and i can fly all 5. They shot the drones in 0.7 to pieces a lot quicker than pre-RMR, im sure. Will test in 0.5 soon. ---------------- Tom
Vixa Ambrodel	Posted - 2005.12.17 15:57:00 - [16] Originally by: Rekindle People who mine by themselves from time to time have been nerfed. EVE is a MMO. Do you know what that second M stands for? MULTIPLAYER Meaning you should play with others instead of yourself (literally)! EVE is created with the second M in mind and as such, there are some things that are VERY DIFFICULT to do BY YOURSELF. Mining in a barge in medium- or low-sec is one of them...
Dakath	Posted - 2005.12.17 16:05:00 - [17] Solo play is not what CCP prefers, but it is a VALID play style. CCP accepts real-life money from solo players, if they didn't you might have a point, but you don't. Originally by: Vixa Ambrodel Originally by: Rekindle People who mine by themselves from time to time have been nerfed. EVE is a MMO. Do you know what that second M stands for? MULTIPLAYER Meaning you should play with others instead of yourself (literally)! EVE is created with the second M in mind and as such, there are some things that are VERY DIFFICULT to do BY YOURSELF. Mining in a barge in medium- or low-sec is one of them... Wow! That drone nerf eliminated all lag!
Vixa Ambrodel	Posted - 2005.12.17 16:10:00 - [18] Originally by: Dakath Solo play is not what CCP prefers, but it is a VALID play style. CCP accepts real-life money from solo players, if they didn't you might have a point, but you don't. Are you saying that everything in EVE should be soloable? No, I mean it, EVERYTHING??? If not, my point still stands: Some things in EVE are meant to be difficult on your own...
Brannigan McCormick	Posted - 2005.12.17 16:13:00 - [19] Originally by: Vixa Ambrodel EVE is a MMO. Do you know what that second M stands for? MULTIPLAYER Meaning you should play with others instead of yourself (literally)! I think the whole point here still is, that what has been said by the devs, is not what has happened in the actual game world. You can continue stating that you should "not mine alone", "get an escort", "stop whining", but the core issue here is that something was said about a major change in game mechanics, and that something has shown to not be true for a part of the playerbase. It could be a bug, it could be intentional, with all the things that have changed in RmR, which has not been in the patchnotes, who can tell? /Bran - Its good for you
Brannigan McCormick	Posted - 2005.12.17 16:15:00 - [20] Originally by: Vixa Ambrodel If not, my point still stands: Some things in EVE are meant to be difficult on your own... No one has contested this, but, as I said earlier, the drone-change was announced as a "we take 50% here, and give 50% somewhere else, and end up with more or less status quo", and that is not the cause. It was perfectly possible to do this before patch, and now after, it is not. /Bran - Its good for you
Dakath	Posted - 2005.12.17 16:16:00 - [21] I propose that mining should be solable. I propose that the drone nerf has not eliminated lag. I said it wouldn't and I was right. I propose that teamplay is over-rated. I get enough of that at work. I will play as I wish to play. If people don't like it that I am not playing on a team that is their tough luck. Originally by: Vixa Ambrodel Originally by: Dakath Solo play is not what CCP prefers, but it is a VALID play style. CCP accepts real-life money from solo players, if they didn't you might have a point, but you don't. Are you saying that everything in EVE should be soloable? No, I mean it, EVERYTHING??? If not, my point still stands: Some things in EVE are meant to be difficult on your own... Wow! That drone nerf eliminated all lag!
Rulkez	Posted - 2005.12.17 16:26:00 - [22] 5 lights post RMR handles the .5 rats no problem at all, even before adding drone interfacing skills into teh mix, they almost doubled in damage, they are fast and hard to hit. let teh rats target YOU and tank teh damage while your drones pop teh rats, its simple. p.s whining is bad mkaaaay
Ion Shape	Posted - 2005.12.17 16:31:00 - [23] Originally by: Chuey Originally by: Rafein Use 5 smalls in a Retreiver Exactly, dont HAVE to use Meds or Heavies, Lights are fast and hard to hit, do better damage than pre RMR and u can use 5, so whats the problem? People need to learn to adapt. Someone stirs the pot and suddenly we're drench in posts of people *****ing cause they cant do something exactly how they done it for the last few months before the "Nerf", and I for one am sick of it. I wonder how many people who use Ravens still consider the Missile Changes a Nerf, I know I dont, hell they're better than ever if u take the time to train them. Drones will be the same. Yea mate but you adept downwards thatÆs the problem for barges and peopleÆs who not yet have finished as mush like I/others have in SP. I donÆt have the big trouble because IÆm nearly complete all necessary skills for drones. At least give people the ability to increase the drone bay size, either by skill (I preferred this) or modules or both. And please mates û let us keep it nice and sound, as I'm tired of self-appointed, forum police sticking their jackboots down people's throats every time some one have a little constructive criticism. He has a point here!! DonÆt spoil what forums is here for . . . to exchange ideas and help you fellow comrades û right! I canÆt see the point û the only result we getting is scaring people of from here and also maybe someone who really have something to say. I must admit self-appointed, forum police dudes only, in my eyes look like this . . . hope all can see how childish it looks
Mercade	Posted - 2005.12.17 16:32:00 - [24] Originally by: Rekindle I don't remember reading in the patch notes: -People who mine by themselves from time to time have been nerfed. To restore your ability to mine by yourself you're going to need to invest 1 month of training in drones to restore your abiltiies. I remember in one patch reading a note that said. "People who level 4 agent spam by themselves every night have been nerfed. To restore your ability to own in pvp against all targets with 1mil sp character please invest more then 25k skill points in missiles and raise caldary battleship above level 2. Kthnxbyeccplovesya!" Balance, is an aspect of raising something or lowering another to equate the same result from both sides. Would you like to RAISE all of everything else in eve to compare to one thing or lower to be in balance, one would take oh.. forever and probably break the game, the other, possibly feasible with some fine tuning. Originally by: kieron ...possible causes for an extended downtime, I think playing WoW would be close to the bottom of the list, probably between shaving cats and having dental work done w/o anethesia.
Adipocere	Posted - 2005.12.17 16:34:00 - [25] Originally by: Brannigan McCormick Originally by: Vixa Ambrodel If not, my point still stands: Some things in EVE are meant to be difficult on your own... No one has contested this, but, as I said earlier, the drone-change was announced as a "we take 50% here, and give 50% somewhere else, and end up with more or less status quo", and that is not the cause. Actually, it is for drones specifically. Quote: It was perfectly possible to do this before patch, and now after, it is not. However, drones were not the only thing changed in the patch. I'm not having problems with .5 rat spawns without Drone interfacing, at all, and I'm wondering if the OP is using drones 'correctly'.
Rimac	Posted - 2005.12.17 16:34:00 - [26] Assuming you have drone V, train all new general-purpose drone skills to level II and train up Interfacing to level II or III. Should take one or two days, but thenthose 5 small drones on the retriever will be murderous against 10k rats. ;)
Nistro	Posted - 2005.12.17 16:47:00 - [27] Originally by: Mercade Originally by: Rekindle I don't remember reading in the patch notes: -People who mine by themselves from time to time have been nerfed. To restore your ability to mine by yourself you're going to need to invest 1 month of training in drones to restore your abiltiies. I remember in one patch reading a note that said. "People who level 4 agent spam by themselves every night have been nerfed. To restore your ability to own in pvp against all targets with 1mil sp character please invest more then 25k skill points in missiles and raise caldary battleship above level 2. Kthnxbyeccplovesya!" Balance, is an aspect of raising something or lowering another to equate the same result from both sides. Would you like to RAISE all of everything else in eve to compare to one thing or lower to be in balance, one would take oh.. forever and probably break the game, the other, possibly feasible with some fine tuning. i agree with this i used to solo lvl4's then there was the last patch and guess what most lvl4 runners had to team up and ADAPT and train for a month on our new missile skills.
Sykosys	Posted - 2005.12.17 16:48:00 - [28] Edited by: Sykosys on 17/12/2005 16:48:42 Are you kidding this drone change is the best thing to happen for barges. Im a full time miner so Im not just quoting stats here. First off the Large barge can hold 5 T2 drones and 5 mining drones t2s Mining drones would get hit once and die, now they can take 2 maybe 3 hits. Also the skill to increase the drone speed means faster trips with your drones. I love these drone changes. T2 Lights 4TW. Also I should not I mine in low sec .4 and lower and have not had much problems. If the spawn is too big or Im going to .2 or lower I bring all combat Im training for sentry drones now so with 1 sentry drone and 4 meds in a T2 barge(If they ever are released) I will be fine sitting in a belt against cruisers and frigs. RMR is AWSOME. Im loving it. SYKOSYS _______________________ "She'll fly apart sir," "FLY HER APART THEN!!!"
Tharrn	Posted - 2005.12.17 16:54:00 - [29] Originally by: Sykosys Edited by: Sykosys on 17/12/2005 16:48:42 Are you kidding this drone change is the best thing to happen for barges. Im a full time miner so Im not just quoting stats here. First off the Large barge can hold 5 T2 drones and 5 mining drones t2s Mining drones would get hit once and die, now they can take 2 maybe 3 hits. Also the skill to increase the drone speed means faster trips with your drones. I love these drone changes. T2 Lights 4TW. Also I should not I mine in low sec .4 and lower and have not had much problems. If the spawn is too big or Im going to .2 or lower I bring all combat Im training for sentry drones now so with 1 sentry drone and 4 meds in a T2 barge(If they ever are released) I will be fine sitting in a belt against cruisers and frigs. RMR is AWSOME. Im loving it. SYKOSYS Hey, would you mind telling me where you mine so we can... watch... you? :P ------------------------------------------------------
Rekindle	Posted - 2005.12.17 16:55:00 - [30] Edited by: Rekindle on 17/12/2005 16:55:56 Originally by: Sykosys Edited by: Sykosys on 17/12/2005 16:48:42 Are you kidding this drone change is the best thing to happen for barges. Im a full time miner so Im not just quoting stats here. First off the Large barge can hold 5 T2 drones and 5 mining drones t2s Mining drones would get hit once and die, now they can take 2 maybe 3 hits. Also the skill to increase the drone speed means faster trips with your drones. I love these drone changes. T2 Lights 4TW. SYKOSYS Don't even get me started on tech 2. Anyway, I made my points expressed my personal opinion, I was /am a little **ed - but in the end, to those that added constructive comments for and against - thanks for your input. Part of the problem here is balance, part of it is the fact that drone bays were** nerfed and part of it is my perception that these changes were not amply communicated for what they were. However, in between the self righteous posts from all the authortative experts in this game and those that added valuable comments, I've managed to gain some semblance on courses of actions that may correct my problem. I thought I was doing something constructive by getting drones R5 but I'll roll some dice and get some t2 bpc's some day in the distant future. /Rek out. ------------------------------------------- CEO of NAMA Corp http://evenama.proboards75.com

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