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Anna IsI	Posted - 2005.12.18 06:33:00 - [1] Ok lets get the T2 bpo's out of the R&D agents hands and be put on the market. BY the looks the lottery for the BPO's Is a joke for what I see. I have talked to a few player who are using R&D agents and they have over 10,000 reseach point and got nothing for their headache. It looks like a great ISK pit to me. IF you DEV's don't what to put T2 bpo on the market the set them up as a offers like the regular mission agent has. the reseach points can represent on how good the meterial, and the Productivity level are. This is just a though to bring out more T2 bpo's than having it for the select few ( this might not be only my thought). so if the thread gets flamed, then i am right( the T2 are for the select few). DEV's Provew me wrong by getting more T2 bpo's out.
gubble flob	Posted - 2005.12.18 09:26:00 - [2] Please dont post ever again, ever!
Arnold Swartzenegger	Posted - 2005.12.18 09:47:00 - [3] Originally by: gubble flob Please dont post ever again, ever! aye Vitalii > i harass people
sonofollo	Posted - 2005.12.18 10:14:00 - [4] t2 BPCs will now be dropped by commander NPCs and some agents. Limited run BPCs 1-10 runs will get t2 production into the hands of a few more players CCP please restore the recruitment channel
Michael Bolton	Posted - 2005.12.18 13:50:00 - [5] Originally by: sonofollo t2 BPCs will now be dropped by commander NPCs and some agents. Limited run BPCs 1-10 runs will get t2 production into the hands of a few more players Provide a link to where CCP officials have said this. Youve been posting it all over the forums, time to back your words up with facts. Quote: I'm listening to Pavarotti and I'm thinking 'What the hell have I been doing with my voice all these years?! Why haven't I taken my voice as far as I can take it as an instrument?'

Mephysto	Posted - 2005.12.18 17:06:00 - [6] The lottery will remain for now. (and for those keeping score, I have over 700,000 rp's spread across my main characters agents). To my knowledge there is not and never has been any intention to drop t2 bpc's from npc's. If it is happening, it is a bug and should be reported.

ManOfHonor	Posted - 2005.12.18 18:41:00 - [7] I think the BPC drops are faction stuff from commanders, and very limited run, and I believe that is in the patch notes and dev blogs, but no T2 stuff.... I have 32k RP on one of my characters, and I have nothing, but I know that I shouldn't, either. 10k is nothing, start doing the research missions, and increase the skill level of whatever skill it is! _____________________________ NPC Asteroid Belt Bases Honor Above Self Glory For Self Strength Of Self
Plekto	Posted - 2005.12.18 19:58:00 - [8] I managed to snag one of the tractor beam BPOs for well - there was a group of them that went for $70K or so the day of the patch. This "fire-sale" approach of small numbers of reasonably priced plans seems to work well. Production is too slow? Throw a few out there for a price that anyone can afford. Making them as fast as I can - they cost a bit over a mil in minerals to make. First time I've seen a BPO sell for less than the thing it builds, but it's good - the effect of making the modules used by many players seems to be working.
Deakin Frost	Posted - 2005.12.24 14:51:00 - [9] There's no point in bothering with research and T2 production in this game unless you started collecting RPs since the game was released, and ideally have multiple accounts or sit in an alliance with multiple people also accumulating RPs. One way or another, BPOs will always land in the hands of the very rich. That's why the current BPO system is retarded. But CCP doesn't seem to really want to change it either.
Deakin Frost	Posted - 2005.12.25 02:25:00 - [10] Edited by: Deakin Frost on 25/12/2005 02:28:24 Repost from the Gendisc thread The system needs to be replaced with something that requires user interactivity and skills. For example, randomly thought up without reflecting too much: When a new BPO gets seeded, it needs to be achieved. For each item type BPO, you'll have to get specific items from (specific) missions that you might have looted in COSMOS missions or wherever else, maybe even just items available on different regional markets, that will be required in not-so-easily solvable puzzles supplied by the research agents (independent of any RP). For each solved puzzle, you get a BPO, restriction being one of a type per character per corp. There should be randomized puzzles for the same BPO, so noone can conspire and sweep the BPO seeding. This would be a way better improvement and allow newer characters to have a fair chance in the T2 market, because the last thing you'll ever achieve is a mass of RP these days.
Sessho Seki	Posted - 2005.12.26 04:09:00 - [11] Originally by: Mephysto The lottery will remain for now. (and for those keeping score, I have over 700,000 rp's spread across my main characters agents). To my knowledge there is not and never has been any intention to drop t2 bpc's from npc's. If it is happening, it is a bug and should be reported. WHEW! Thank goodnessà For a second, I almost thought that maybe the CCP supported monopolies of Tech 2 may have had at least the POSSIBILITY of competition, but thankfully that was cleared up with a soul crushing stab into the heart of free market economics and a general kick in the groin to the entire player base, HORAY! Boy am I excited to continue to have the entire Tech 2 production industry shackled to the terrible joke of a research system that isnÆt systematic in any way and doesnÆt involve any research. And thankfully itÆs impossible for anyone to actually do any real research that would lead to legitimate discoveries and advancements over the tech 1 devices, other wise, Tech 2 would actually be achievable through effort and skill rather than just idiotic luck of the draw, and we all know how terrible that would be. Thankfully the entire game that is based on the investment of time and effort, from skill training down to making every last penny in your wallet is nicely off set by a completely counter-intuitive laughing stock of a distribution mechanic for technology. Hopefully, the terrible day never comes when hard work and skill in the field of actually RESEARCHING items would work toward the reward(s) of advanced technologies, because if a meritocracy system was ever allowed with technology then it would be JUST LIKE THE REST OF THE GAME where effort and investment of time is rewarded rather than continually being slapped in the face by the asinine research model thatÆs only slightly less insulting to many player than if CCP were to openly and deliberately enforce even more unbalanced mechanics specifically to benefit a few at the expense of the vast majority of their player base.
Yazoul Samaiel	Posted - 2005.12.26 10:41:00 - [12] Originally by: Mephysto The lottery will remain for now. (and for those keeping score, I have over 700,000 rp's spread across my main characters agents). To my knowledge there is not and never has been any intention to drop t2 bpc's from npc's. If it is happening, it is a bug and should be reported. It is quite clear that the current lottery system is un acceptable by the general populace of EVE (Excluding the current oweners of T2 BPOS) and it needs replacement for sure with a better system , any insight on what is being doen to rectify this huge problem ? "What ever that doesnt Kill me just makes me stronger"
Trak Cranker	Posted - 2005.12.26 12:28:00 - [13] Edited by: Trak Cranker on 26/12/2005 12:28:11 Afaik(cant find link atm, sorry) Oveur has stated that a RP based auction system is in the works, and possibly not that far away. Please resize your signature so that it is within the forum rule size limits - Jacques
Deakin Frost	Posted - 2005.12.26 14:13:00 - [14] How is that different from the lottery? You only win the auction if you have the most RPs, still doesn't involve any sort of research, and now people will less RPs dont even have a chance anymore for good BPOs, unlike now with the lottery, even if this chance is remote.
Trak Cranker	Posted - 2005.12.26 14:53:00 - [15] And being able to win a BPO after two weeks of play while someone who has played for two years havent one one, is fair exactly how? An RP based auction is definately a step in the right direction. Next step is to look at how the RP are aquired. The ones with lots of research points, a single person or a group combining their points(which hope will be possible), will only have lots of RPs the first time or two around, as there will be a massive bidding war for the best BPOs. So slowly the ones at the bottom of the RP food chain will rise to be at the top of it. That seems like decent system to me. The OP generally show very little grasp on the BPO proliferation and research concept. And even less grasp on language, typing and argumention. Prestating that a flame is equalling he/she is right, is a flaming I AM STUPID AND LAME sign. But I agree that T2 BPOs need to be a tad more plentiful. Please resize your signature so that it is within the forum rule size limits - Jacques
Deakin Frost	Posted - 2005.12.26 15:55:00 - [16] That's called luck. Even though I trust the lottery as far as I can throw my washing machine. That's why I stand by my user interaction proposition. Actually, to spice it up a bit further, research agents should offer weekly easy puzzles, that have to solved within a week. If you miss to resolve 2-3 puzzles in a row, the agent doesn't want to work with you anymore for a month or two. All times may vary. Each player can just do research with one agent of each research field. If you can't keep the attention to it, you might get screwed on BPO handouts, that should happen at randomized times for each BPO, not immediately, to mitigate puzzle camping a bit. Anyway, get rid of the lottery.
Sarmaul	Posted - 2005.12.26 16:21:00 - [17] Originally by: Mephysto The lottery will remain for now. (and for those keeping score, I have over 700,000 rp's spread across my main characters agents). To my knowledge there is not and never has been any intention to drop t2 bpc's from npc's. If it is happening, it is a bug and should be reported. and how many of those characters do you pay for? ------------- Please make Minmatar overpowered, CCP
Jamesiam	Posted - 2005.12.27 08:09:00 - [18] Originally by: Mephysto The lottery will remain for now. (and for those keeping score, I have over 700,000 rp's spread across my main characters agents). To my knowledge there is not and never has been any intention to drop t2 bpc's from npc's. If it is happening, it is a bug and should be reported. Keeping the T2 bpos on the lottery is a joke due to that you can buy Capital Ships and there conponent BPO on the market. I just don't get it all. If the Capital ship BPO's are out on the market, then lets have the T2 bpo on the market, too. The T2 BPO's a lower grade than the Capital ships. Could CCP expand this? Yes the Capital are realy hi priced items.
bullwyff	Posted - 2005.12.27 08:23:00 - [19] Are all the new Tech2 BPOs out there already or are we going to get a second load throwing at us after new year?? So far i have seen people with new BPOs but i havent seen more then 1 of each kind. PS only been looking for the new ship bpos. Well at least i hope DEVS are going to give use more then 1 or 2 from each kind of BPO. Prices for command ships are retarded already like 500mill a pop. O yes i have the isk to buy it but no "not a hair on my head that is going to pay 500mill" for it. Anyway are we getting more BPOs treu lottery or is this it?? Bully
Sarmaul	Posted - 2005.12.27 10:58:00 - [20] Originally by: Jamesiam Originally by: Mephysto The lottery will remain for now. (and for those keeping score, I have over 700,000 rp's spread across my main characters agents). To my knowledge there is not and never has been any intention to drop t2 bpc's from npc's. If it is happening, it is a bug and should be reported. Keeping the T2 bpos on the lottery is a joke due to that you can buy Capital Ships and there conponent BPO on the market. I just don't get it all. If the Capital ship BPO's are out on the market, then lets have the T2 bpo on the market, too. The T2 BPO's a lower grade than the Capital ships. Could CCP expand this? Yes the Capital are realy hi priced items. the problem with your analysis is that, dispite their price, capital ships are still tech1, hence them being seeded on the market. ------------- Please make Minmatar overpowered, CCP
Kipkruide	Posted - 2005.12.27 11:30:00 - [21] t2 capital ships will go through the lottery, t1's are on the market
Tom Hagen	Posted - 2005.12.28 02:42:00 - [22] From my point of view it just seems like there are players out there who dont like to wait long enough to have a chance on Tech II BPO. I started from day one to train in order to be able to get myself 5 different R&D agents. I picked the corporation to do my mission for, two weeks into the game in order to get standing enough to use the best R&D agents. I even created my char with a high int and mem to get the skills up as fast as possible. It took me almost a year before I got one BPO (and my only so far)and thats only because I planned ahead. Sure it is a lottery but everyone has the same oppertunities to improve on their chances. When I read suggestion that all÷w anyone to grind there way to get there own BPO in two weeks I must ask myself how fair is that to those of us who have done everything possible to increase their chance? Sure you can increase the difficulties and the time it takes to get a BPO and not just two weeks as I stated, but I bet that if you were supposed to work for it for two month people would complain about that to, and how fun would it be to do nothing else in EVE for that period of time? Sure people that have been around longer have a bigger chance to get it, but I dont see you complaining about people that have been here longer then you have more ISK. I dont think you would try and write and complain to Blizzard either about all the other people have an unfair advantage because they already are lvl 60. The game evolves every day, every week, every month and year, and as it do new BPO gets released and old ones disepear and gets replaced. All of us know it, and so I wish that it atleast was someone with a decent sum of RP that had written this and showing their frustration that they always get passed in the lottery or that the person that comes in here whining had done all in their power to increase their chance to win the lottery. While we wait for that to happen, I will advice all of you that wants to have their own Tech II BPO one day to train the skills that is needed and wait. You can even speed things up a little by doing missions for your agent everyday if you are impatient. I can agree that some changes would benefit the game, I just find it a bit insulting that someone without their own RP or don't even know someone with a decent sum of RP should come in here and suggest things that will throw away months or even years of planning for people that were fortunate enough to find EVE in time or was a little brighter from the beginning and planned ahead. Next time someone post a suggestion can you please look past your own greed and wallet and think about what it will do to the game and all the people out there who actually have adjusted to the games and its mechanics?
Deakin Frost	Posted - 2005.12.28 12:35:00 - [23] Wealth in this game is different than in every other MMO. Most other mainstream NNOs, death means just being catapulted into your rezzing station and loss of a couple of XP. Here it can ruin you if you don't have enough money, because of ship and equipment losses. So don't compare other MMOs to EVE in regards of money making.
Trasdockan	Posted - 2006.01.02 18:09:00 - [24] The current system should be kept like this, however, T3 and above should be more accessible to everyone I think (since they're going to work differently anyways)
XZeroXCompanyX	Posted - 2006.01.02 20:05:00 - [25] null Originally by: Deakin Frost Edited by: Deakin Frost on 25/12/2005 02:36:11 Edited by: Deakin Frost on 25/12/2005 02:28:24 Repost from the Gendisc thread The system needs to be replaced with something that requires user interactivity and skills. For example, randomly thought up without reflecting too much: When a new BPO gets seeded, it needs to be achieved. For each item type BPO, you'll have to get specific items from (specific) missions that you might have looted in COSMOS missions or wherever else, maybe even just items available on different regional markets, that will be required in not-so-easily solvable puzzles supplied by the research agents (independent of any RP). For each solved puzzle, you get a BPO, restriction being one of a type per character per corp. There should be randomized puzzles for the same BPO, so noone can conspire and sweep the BPO seeding. This would be a way better improvement and allow newer characters to have a fair chance in the T2 market, because the last thing you'll ever achieve is a mass of RP these days. -add: There'll still be a specific small number of BPOs, which you'd acquire on a first-solve first-get basis. If you solve the given puzzle too late, no BPO for j00. Im not complaining about people who obviously have more time in game than me. My main started sometime close to beta release, but I didnt do research until after. I do have conciderable points now. So I understand the frustrations. The system does seem wrong somehow, and I like the concept of the puzzles, but not all players can be up to those challanges. I dont think there is any real way around the monopoly factor. Alliances hold the cards. You have to untip that ballance if you want anything, so i'd suggest you find out who they have doing research adn bribe them with beer and quafe and chips.. bbq o/ Maybe some less mentionable deeds... yatzee (c) hehe. Bottom line, you are the man, or you serve the man. And its pretty fair to asume that most of eve.. some 20+k members now, vrs one or two relaeases here and there are in the corporate hands of the monopoly. But should it be so easy? If we all have access, the gallexy would fight for nothing.. it would always be there. No. We pay the few. And we ride the hooby horse of wooden pain. It comes without diplomacy I think. ISK..... Isk...... Isk..... then you own o/o/o/ <-get in line_______ it stared before most of us :( Congrats to the guy who got one after hard preperation adn a year.. im on two years, doing missions next to everyday.. and still nothing lol.. but hey.. luck of the eve lottery, right?
Ruffio Sepico	Posted - 2006.01.03 00:45:00 - [26] What many fail to grasp; You do not compete over bpo's already released, you compete over bpo's yet to be handed out and future bpo's. "OMG! he got a cap recharger 2 bpo!!!!" so? Who knows what future techs and releases might bring. Once you get lucky you exchange all your RP's in that field for the bpo you get. Then you are back to scratch again NILL, nada, big fat ZERO. Someone else get pushed further up in the food chain regarding RP's. Its been said that there will be a lot of ammo prints seeded compared to other t2 bpo's, this will consume a lot of rp's stockpiled around. Why do you want a t2 bpo? To get a bpo you can build from, or a bpo you can sell to "cash in"? I feel sometimes its the group belonging to the later that moan the loudest. I believe the group of players that do "pro" r&d with multiple characters, accounts, focusing on science skills, social skills, higher standings, do the r&d missions daily etc is in a minority, but due to their focus they get higher gains than the rest of the player base. Which Imho I see no wrong in. Effort Vs Reward. How boring it would be if EVE was a grind where everyone could end up get all the same stuff by just grinding enough. Chance and luck makes all the difference; now roll the dice and let diversity rule Home: http://www.hidden-agenda.co.uk
Kage Getsu	Posted - 2006.01.03 01:11:00 - [27] Just make it an LP style offer system, with offers starting at 1-run BPCs of various quality, then multi-run BPCs of increasing quality and runs, and finally, BPOs. The lottery system didn't work when it was first released, and it's even worse now that we have hit over 20,000 simultaneous users.
Quaird	Posted - 2006.01.03 08:08:00 - [28] What about an auction for new BPOs using the R&D points to bid with? The auction for a given BPO would run for a given amount of time. People would bid using their existing points (instead of cash like in a real world auction). At the end of the time limit the highest bidder gets the BPO by trading the R&D points for the BPO. This way over time if you want to save up for a BPO then you can. Since everyone can gather the same amount of points by signing up for the agents everyone is on the same level playing field unlike if ISK was used (ie no isk grinders). Currently it is not possible to grind R&D points other than the single mission per day so this will same under control. This new system could be done in combination with the existing system or even replace it altogether.
Ruffio Sepico	Posted - 2006.01.03 10:36:00 - [29] Originally by: Quaird What about an auction for new BPOs using the R&D points to bid with? The auction for a given BPO would run for a given amount of time. People would bid using their existing points (instead of cash like in a real world auction). At the end of the time limit the highest bidder gets the BPO by trading the R&D points for the BPO. This way over time if you want to save up for a BPO then you can. Since everyone can gather the same amount of points by signing up for the agents everyone is on the same level playing field unlike if ISK was used (ie no isk grinders). Currently it is not possible to grind R&D points other than the single mission per day so this will same under control. This new system could be done in combination with the existing system or even replace it altogether. Only problem with this, is that those who done R&d the longest, got most RP's to spend. This way the older players is the ones to benefit the most from this, so we still end up with moaning about how the older players have it all. Home: http://www.hidden-agenda.co.uk
Theta9	Posted - 2006.01.03 20:16:00 - [30] Yep people with some 500k+ reaserch points will in fact win the first few auctions but you fail to realise that once they win the auction they are out some off 500k reaserch points and back to 0. its been stated its impossible to grind agents so a system were you bid using RP is in fact more fair than the current system. It helps out those that have high RP now and have been waiting for years for a bpo. While it gives those who dont have as much hope in that the person who won the bpo's is out for a while in future offerings. (I know someone that won a bpo once then another one from the same agent 2 weeks later for less than 3k RP's and they yet again in 2 weeks for another 3k from the same agent) at least this way you guarantee an equal spread.
Quaird	Posted - 2006.01.03 20:31:00 - [31] Originally by: Theta9 Yep people with some 500k+ reaserch points will in fact win the first few auctions but you fail to realise that once they win the auction they are out some off 500k reaserch points and back to 0. its been stated its impossible to grind agents so a system were you bid using RP is in fact more fair than the current system. It helps out those that have high RP now and have been waiting for years for a bpo. While it gives those who dont have as much hope in that the person who won the bpo's is out for a while in future offerings. (I know someone that won a bpo once then another one from the same agent 2 weeks later for less than 3k RP's and they yet again in 2 weeks for another 3k from the same agent) at least this way you guarantee an equal spread. Exactly. After the initial few rounds of auctions to use up the existing R&D points then everyone will be on a relatively equal playing field. Of course if you want to bid for something then you have to have the points available first - that takes time to accumulate. An added bonus is that each person will put their own value on the BPO they are bidding for. For BPOs that no one particularly wants then the bid prices will be quite low. For ones with high demand then the bid price will be high. Over a short period of time everything will equalize out. You could even do this in combination with the existing system. If you want to bid on an auction you are able to. If not then you still have a (small) chance from the current lottery approach. Overall I think this could be a much fairer way to distribute the BPOs into the community. By not using ISK at all to bid with there is no way for someone to essentially "buy" the BPO by using out of game money.
Ruffio Sepico	Posted - 2006.01.03 20:31:00 - [32] Originally by: Theta9 Yep people with some 500k+ reaserch points will in fact win the first few auctions but you fail to realise that once they win the auction they are out some off 500k reaserch points and back to 0. its been stated its impossible to grind agents so a system were you bid using RP is in fact more fair than the current system. It helps out those that have high RP now and have been waiting for years for a bpo. While it gives those who dont have as much hope in that the person who won the bpo's is out for a while in future offerings. (I know someone that won a bpo once then another one from the same agent 2 weeks later for less than 3k RP's and they yet again in 2 weeks for another 3k from the same agent) at least this way you guarantee an equal spread. If the auctions is long and far between. It will drag out long before the players with less RP have any chance to win an auction. Unless its some crap bpo no one want. Of course an auction in addition to current system is interesting though. It will probably free up the chance for others to get a bpo through R&D as the ones with most RP's will spend theirs on auctions. Home: http://www.hidden-agenda.co.uk
Proteaus	Posted - 2006.01.04 03:43:00 - [33] The main problem is the newer char's(of which I am one)have basicaly no chance to ever get anything on the bpo lotto.Say you have 100 lottery tickets and the other guy has 700000 I give you one guess who will win the lottery.There is no way in this lottery that the newer players can compete with ppl that have been getting rp for 2 years or more.The only way the newer players could compete is if they started a new server.Unless of course they were to make the bpo more available to all.It seems that the ppl getting the bpo's are the ones that have alts dedicated to nothing else but research.There should be a cap for the number of research pts that can be ammased.Then as more ppl reach that cap the lottery would become more fair over time.
Theta9	Posted - 2006.01.04 05:25:00 - [34] Edited by: Theta9 on 04/01/2006 05:27:25 your missing the point of RP's. there is no way once they are gone for an old char that currently has 700k or so to get that much again in anything less than say 2 or so years. also, they may not have all of them in the same field, so they cant spend all 700k on 1 bid. a new charicter then trains up the skills gets a good agent and does his missions I guarantee that in a few months if he focuses on it he will be making as much as said 3 year old reasercher in RP's a day if he works at it so he is in effect in the running as well. The point is that in a auction based system you have reward for your efforts eventually maybe not immediate but a LOT faster than the current system. and its the only reall fair system out there atm. Cause once you had lvl 5 in related skill for said reserch agent your maxed in RP's a day and cant get any more other than the 1 mission a day for 2x RP so this is a very good solution to the current system ps. this is dirrected to the guy a few spaces above lol.
Beaker Laab	Posted - 2006.01.05 03:29:00 - [35] Edited by: Beaker Laab on 05/01/2006 03:30:08 Originally by: Theta9 Yep people with some 500k+ reaserch points will in fact win the first few auctions but you fail to realise that once they win the auction they are out some off 500k reaserch points and back to 0. A few days ago my main char got the Huginn BPO.... spend 110k Research points in it. That over 500days of research at 200 points/day. This is my 3rd BPO, other two bing 125mm autocannon Tech2, and Tremor M. About getting these to the market. I myself did make 200 of the cannons and sold around half of those before selling the BPO. These days I don't play EVE that much, mainly because of IRL stuff and WoW. So these Huginn/Tremor BPO's I will most likely sell it with 5-10 days. But why? Because I want the new items to be on the market for people, but I simple don't have the time/skill to do it. ps. Tremor BPO cost me 250+days of research.
evil eye	Posted - 2006.01.05 12:18:00 - [36] The problem is that a lot of people with t2 bpo's don't actually do much with them, a few people i imagine leave eve or stop playing for a while... ... where does that leave us?
theRaptor	Posted - 2006.01.05 14:20:00 - [37] And please put pirate officers in empire. It is unfair that the older and richer players get that good loot because they can afford to go out to 0.0. I don't think you trust, in, my, self-righteous suicide.

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