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Weaselior
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
1294
|
Posted - 2011.10.26 21:57:00 -
[1] - Quote
As we have all learned, one of the greatest aspects of EVE is that, in highsec, "suicide ganking" is possible. It functions as a wonderful way of adding content to the game, and acts as a wonderful tool to combat several problems with EVE highsec.
First, botting. As we all know, most highsec professions are heavily botted, with mining being a significant offender. It is rare, in fact, to find a human ice miner: tests have shown that in an ordinary ice belt (non-interdicted) you can systematically gank each mackinaw in the belt in order, with virtually no one realizing that after the fifth gank, it may be time to put the ship away. Likewise with veld mining: roidripper was such a massively popular bot that it was one of the first ones targeted by CCP. However, all is not lost: there's nary a bot in a gallente ice system anywhere in Empire. Suicide ganking has been an extraordinarally effective method of delivering an anti-bot message - and, through creating situations novel to a bot but easily understood and reacted to by a human, provided an excellent method to identify and report bots.
Were highsec to take up its often-alleged anti-botting fervor that mysteriously only shows up when bots are being ganked on an unprecedented scale, bots could be eliminated from far more than a small subset of belts. By making min/max ships like the Hulk and Mack easy to gank, CCP has done something great: it's prevented them from being used by botters effectively. If you choose to bot, you can't use the best ship avalible.
Similar things should be done to the other commonly botted EVE profession: mission-running. As we all know - or should know - mission botting is wildly popular and has resulted in massive deflation of the value of LP, with some 5% implants going for a mere 10m isk (such as medium hybrid turret damage implants). It's not viable, of course, to simply turn mission-running ships into hulk-like paper. What should be done, however, is restructuring missions to do all DPS of a specific damage type, forcing mission runners to heavily tank for a specific type of damage. This prevents bots from using omnitanks for missions, and once the bots become advanced enough to use the correct tank, leaves giant resist holes a proper ganking team can use to express their anti-botting message through destruction of the offending ship. Or, to take another solution, Concord could react significantly more slowly in deadspace, allowing gankers to more easily destroy the offending ship with less people, but still ensuring that Concord eventually gets their man.
Second, is monotony. EVE has bad PvE. It's true, and nobody can really argue with it: missions, ratting, and mining are all extremely boring activities. There's not really a good way to make them better, either - minigames will quickly become tedious clickfests and the player will rarely, if ever, be challenged. Instead, players simply perform the correct min-maxed actions and essentially roleplay a bot. Increasing their gankability makes the activity more exciting. Gallente ice miners have discovered recently that mining can be much more exciting than monotonously dragging ore into stations: fitting tanks, baiting gankers, and learning how to survive is infinitely more rewarding - and the difficulty makes it financially more rewarding as well. This same excitement can be spread to all EVE highsec activities - though increased interaction with other players, people will encounter new and novel situations to keep their EVE activities exciting.
Naturally, they'll be free to "tank up" - much like a miner can mine more slowly but more safely in a Rokh, they'll be free to choose safer missions - level threes, perhaps, would allow missioners to overtank to resist ganks while they learn the ropes. But because there's rewards for placing yourself slightly at risk, though never in a place where your attacker is not destroyed, people will be encouraged to play EVE in a more interesting way.
Lastly, Content. Highsec is boring: nothing really ever happens. No grand battles, no shifts of territory, nothing. Ganking provides the sort of conflict that Highsec sorely needs. Nothing in Highsec has been nearly as interesting in years as the Goonswarm Ice Interdiction: it has provided exciting opportunities to thousands of players, ranging from mackinaw inventors, to brutix builders, to market speculators, to mercenaries. Naturally, there are a few who cannot adapt and spill veritable gigawats of electons on the forums decrying the interdiction, but the vast majority of highsec is too excited and interested in EVE to bother with forums. It even encourages highsec organization, which may help them in the upcoming CSM elections avoid being a horde of disorganized malcontents who cannot even agree on candidates to stand behind. It provides excitement for everyone who has become disenchanted with EVE, and wonderful news coverage that makes people interested in the exciting possibilities of EVE, a dark and violent universe.
For these reasons, I believe CCP should rebalance most highsec money-making activities to make them similar to mining in gankability; to min-max or bot the activity, you ought to be required leave yourself open to ganking, while maintaining the well-balanced system of penalties EVE uses to keep such ganking restrained and in fits and spurts rather than a low-level hum. |
spookydonut
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
9
|
Posted - 2011.10.26 22:01:00 -
[2] - Quote
I support this product and or service. |
Aryndel Vyst
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
137
|
Posted - 2011.10.26 22:03:00 -
[3] - Quote
I believe in this poster, I believe in this post. |
Unexpected
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
7
|
Posted - 2011.10.26 22:04:00 -
[4] - Quote
Yes We Can! |
Koby Botick
Eighty Joule Brewery Goonswarm Federation
10
|
Posted - 2011.10.26 22:06:00 -
[5] - Quote
Weaselior wrote: This same excitement can be spread to all EVE highsec activities - though increased interaction with other players, people will encounter new and novel situations to keep their EVE activities exciting.
Increased interaction with other players? Wait this is a multiplayer game? I am confused. F1
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pmchem
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
9
|
Posted - 2011.10.26 22:07:00 -
[6] - Quote
Death to all bots - if CCP can't solve the problem, let the playerbase do it. |
Big Bad Mofo
Retribution.
35
|
Posted - 2011.10.26 22:24:00 -
[7] - Quote
This is exactly why new players leave the game, instead of trying to pick on highsec carebears then perhaps CCP should make PVP more available. LIke battlegrounds, ladders etc.. More 0.0 NPC regions, etc. Seriously we need to start preserving the new players.. |
Weaselior
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
1296
|
Posted - 2011.10.26 22:31:00 -
[8] - Quote
Big Bad Mofo wrote:This is exactly why new players leave the game, instead of trying to pick on highsec carebears then perhaps CCP should make PVP more available. LIke battlegrounds, ladders etc.. More 0.0 NPC regions, etc. Seriously we need to start preserving the new players.. Precisely, we must make pvp more avalible. Suicide ganking, an interesting and fun pvp activity unique to EVE, is a great way to start: newbies learn the basics of fitting effective tanks, or learn how to fit gank ships to do their own suicide ganking. It is merely a lack of imagination and vision that prevents highseccers from seeing how much better suicide ganking makes highsec. |
Ladie Harlot
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
525
|
Posted - 2011.10.26 22:32:00 -
[9] - Quote
Big Bad Mofo wrote:This is exactly why new players leave the game, instead of trying to pick on highsec carebears then perhaps CCP should make PVP more available. LIke battlegrounds, ladders etc.. More 0.0 NPC regions, etc. Seriously we need to start preserving the new players.. Look at this guy who read the title of the thread but didn't read the first post.
The artist formerly known as Ladie Scarlet. |
The Mittani
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
1691
|
Posted - 2011.10.26 22:35:00 -
[10] - Quote
Big Bad Mofo wrote:This is exactly why new players leave the game, instead of trying to pick on highsec carebears then perhaps CCP should make PVP more available. LIke battlegrounds, ladders etc.. More 0.0 NPC regions, etc. Seriously we need to start preserving the new players..
A new player who is a bot is no player at all. Down with hisec bots! |
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Koby Botick
Eighty Joule Brewery Goonswarm Federation
10
|
Posted - 2011.10.26 22:37:00 -
[11] - Quote
Big Bad Mofo wrote:This is exactly why new players leave the game, instead of trying to pick on highsec carebears then perhaps CCP should make PVP more available. LIke battlegrounds, ladders etc.. More 0.0 NPC regions, etc. Seriously we need to start preserving the new players..
No thank you, no World of Eve please. Especially not now since Blizzard is running its flagship into the ground with their latest batches of not really thought through changes. In fact, they are so scared about their (still immense but dropping) subscription numbers, that they just devised a clever scheme to bring people to commit to a 12 month subscription by giving their upcoming game for free if you commit yourself.
As for new players leaving or not taking on the game. It has less to do with what the game provides and so much to do that new players get pissed off by this craptastic UI that's an abomination unto itself. Not even 3$ steam games have such a bad, non configurable, buggy and badly designed UI. I'm constantly amazed that they haven't completely replaced it in all this time. Upcoming changing font is a very very small step. It needs to be burned down and buried and completely redone, with nothing taken over, but yeah, fat chance of that happening in the next 5 years. Alone out of the fact that this horrible horrible UI exists in pretty much this form with only minor interations since all this time tells me that new player gain is a very low priority at CCP. Whyever that is. |
Big Bad Mofo
Retribution.
35
|
Posted - 2011.10.26 22:39:00 -
[12] - Quote
The Mittani wrote:Big Bad Mofo wrote:This is exactly why new players leave the game, instead of trying to pick on highsec carebears then perhaps CCP should make PVP more available. LIke battlegrounds, ladders etc.. More 0.0 NPC regions, etc. Seriously we need to start preserving the new players.. A new player who is a bot is no player at all. Down with hisec bots! bots fine i agree, but hes not just talking about bots is he. Tbh CCP should develop some anti botting mechanics to resolve that issue |
Weaselior
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
1301
|
Posted - 2011.10.26 23:32:00 -
[13] - Quote
Big Bad Mofo wrote:The Mittani wrote:Big Bad Mofo wrote:This is exactly why new players leave the game, instead of trying to pick on highsec carebears then perhaps CCP should make PVP more available. LIke battlegrounds, ladders etc.. More 0.0 NPC regions, etc. Seriously we need to start preserving the new players.. A new player who is a bot is no player at all. Down with hisec bots! bots fine i agree, but hes not just talking about bots is he. Tbh CCP should develop some anti botting mechanics to resolve that issue
I'm glad you agree with me on the serious need to combat highsec bots. As you can see from my post, one of the many features of suicide ganking is its dramatic effect on bots. Goonswarm has done in weeks what CCP has been unable to do for years: eradicate botting in a specific region of eve. Imagine what we could all do, working together, if given the proper tools. |
Ladie Harlot
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
527
|
Posted - 2011.10.26 23:48:00 -
[14] - Quote
Big Bad Mofo wrote:Tbh CCP should develop some anti botting mechanics to resolve that issue That's brilliant! I wonder why CCP didn't think of that.
The artist formerly known as Ladie Scarlet. |
Andski
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
463
|
Posted - 2011.10.27 01:30:00 -
[15] - Quote
Big Bad Mofo wrote:Tbh CCP should develop some anti botting mechanics to resolve that issue
pray tell, what are these anti-botting mechanics you propose?
or do you have an extra chromosome? |
Red Templar
Raging Ducks Goonswarm Federation
24
|
Posted - 2011.10.27 06:21:00 -
[16] - Quote
I support this proposal!
For Love. For Peace. For Honor.
For None of the Above.
For Pony! |
Largo Coronet
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
23
|
Posted - 2011.10.27 06:29:00 -
[17] - Quote
This post is relevant to my interests and I would like to subscribe to your newsletter. |
Kingston Black
Hostile. PURPLE HELMETED WARRIORS
0
|
Posted - 2011.10.27 10:30:00 -
[18] - Quote
gd damnit why am i -10 when all the fun is in highsec ffs |
Weaselior
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
1311
|
Posted - 2011.10.27 12:43:00 -
[19] - Quote
Kingston Black wrote:gd damnit why am i -10 when all the fun is in highsec ffs
Being -10 is no reason not to go into highsec and gank people, you just need an alt to move your ships for you. |
Golar Crexis
Broski Enterprises Elite Space Guild
5
|
Posted - 2011.10.27 13:23:00 -
[20] - Quote
The Mittani wrote:Big Bad Mofo wrote:This is exactly why new players leave the game, instead of trying to pick on highsec carebears then perhaps CCP should make PVP more available. LIke battlegrounds, ladders etc.. More 0.0 NPC regions, etc. Seriously we need to start preserving the new players.. A new player who is a bot is no player at all. Down with hisec bots!
:tinfoil: |
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Weaselior
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
1315
|
Posted - 2011.10.27 13:43:00 -
[21] - Quote
Golar Crexis wrote:The Mittani wrote:Big Bad Mofo wrote:This is exactly why new players leave the game, instead of trying to pick on highsec carebears then perhaps CCP should make PVP more available. LIke battlegrounds, ladders etc.. More 0.0 NPC regions, etc. Seriously we need to start preserving the new players.. A new player who is a bot is no player at all. Down with hisec bots! :tinfoil: In 0.0, we can eliminate bots, but highsec, though CONCORD, has made it problematic to eliminate bots en masse. The best solution to botting is making it easier to gank mission runner bots, the last safe bot. |
mavrick1
Siskiyou county mining llc
3
|
Posted - 2011.10.27 18:31:00 -
[22] - Quote
well in some cases yes that would be true but on other cases the person you are hunting is just one step ahead of you. so in all you can either find a easy target or you can spend all day going after one person
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Weaselior
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
1315
|
Posted - 2011.10.27 18:34:00 -
[23] - Quote
Exactly, and what's an easier target than a bot? The easier it is to gank, the less bots will survive. |
Dirk Decibel
Pator Tech School Minmatar Republic
5
|
Posted - 2011.10.27 19:15:00 -
[24] - Quote
The Mittani wrote:Big Bad Mofo wrote:This is exactly why new players leave the game, instead of trying to pick on highsec carebears then perhaps CCP should make PVP more available. LIke battlegrounds, ladders etc.. More 0.0 NPC regions, etc. Seriously we need to start preserving the new players.. A new player who is a bot is no player at all. Down with hisec bots! Yes, but let the null sec bots live in peace, after all, Goonswarm's job not to play police for CCP and Goons don't **** other Goons amirite? |
Lord Zim
Bat Country Goonswarm Federation
26
|
Posted - 2011.10.27 19:35:00 -
[25] - Quote
Dirk Decibel wrote:Yes, but let the null sec bots live in peace, after all, Goonswarm's job not to play police for CCP and Goons don't **** other Goons amirite? You know where the systems are. Bring ammo. |
Weaselior
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
1316
|
Posted - 2011.10.27 19:49:00 -
[26] - Quote
Dirk Decibel wrote:The Mittani wrote:Big Bad Mofo wrote:This is exactly why new players leave the game, instead of trying to pick on highsec carebears then perhaps CCP should make PVP more available. LIke battlegrounds, ladders etc.. More 0.0 NPC regions, etc. Seriously we need to start preserving the new players.. A new player who is a bot is no player at all. Down with hisec bots! Yes, but let the null sec bots live in peace, after all, Goonswarm's job not to play police for CCP and Goons don't **** other Goons amirite?
There are no goons who bot. |
Weaselior
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
1316
|
Posted - 2011.10.27 19:52:00 -
[27] - Quote
Were there botting goons, they would have been destroyed long ago, much like gallente ice miner bots. Botters are weeded out in 0.0, so they flock to highsec. Suddenly, when we start murdering bots, we see an immense anti-goon hue and cry from "legitimate highsec players" on the forums.
Do the math yourself. |
Thredd Necro
Imperial Academy Amarr Empire
0
|
Posted - 2011.10.28 19:54:00 -
[28] - Quote
Weaseliors GIANT WALL OF TEXT crits you for 1,000,000
TLDR version:
"I want CCP to make high-sec ganking easier because I don't think high-sec is any fun! (add red herring about bots here)"
That is a specious and naive argument.
Some folks prefer a different play style. Not everyone wants to pvp. This is not to say they should be made perfectly safe...not as much fun if your results are guaranteed.
Isn't the point of nullsec to go there and do nullsec stuff? You aren't doing anyone any favors by trying to force your preferred style of play on them.
As sandbox game, Eve is a troll/griefer paradise because death has no serious consequences, and neither does losing a ship. It's not like gankers care much about standings when they can always roll an alt with better manners...:)
In fact I think we should add npc podkills in 1.0 sec which will add another cost element to peoples ganking plans.
People do stuff all the time in this game that if eve WAS real life, would result in lots of contracts to hunt them, their clones and their DNA down to be put out of commission permanently.
This isn't real life, it's a game, a business with customers. Customers like options and choices. Some want to mine and sell, some want to run around and shoot stuff.
We already have enough options to have fun at other peoples expense. There is no reason to add more...:P
|
Nariya Kentaya
Celestial Ascension
51
|
Posted - 2011.10.30 06:16:00 -
[29] - Quote
Koby Botick wrote:Big Bad Mofo wrote:This is exactly why new players leave the game, instead of trying to pick on highsec carebears then perhaps CCP should make PVP more available. LIke battlegrounds, ladders etc.. More 0.0 NPC regions, etc. Seriously we need to start preserving the new players.. No thank you, no World of Eve please. Especially not now since Blizzard is running its flagship into the ground with their latest batches of not really thought through changes. In fact, they are so scared about their (still immense but dropping) subscription numbers, that they just devised a clever scheme to bring people to commit to a 12 month subscription by giving their upcoming game for free if you commit yourself. As for new players leaving or not taking on the game. It has less to do with what the game provides and so much to do that new players get pissed off by this craptastic UI that's an abomination unto itself. Not even 3$ steam games have such a bad, non configurable, buggy and badly designed UI. I'm constantly amazed that they haven't completely replaced it in all this time. Upcoming changing font is a very very small step. It needs to be burned down and buried and completely redone, with nothing taken over, but yeah, fat chance of that happening in the next 5 years. Alone out of the fact that this horrible horrible UI exists in pretty much this form with only minor interations since all this time tells me that new player gain is a very low priority at CCP. Whyever that is. ok, i keep seeing people complaining about the UI, i never have trouble with it, so to help me understand: what about it is supposedly "broken"? what do you think should be done to fix it?
cause honestly, i see alot of people complaining, but i ahvent had any issues with UI so am a little confused as to exact reasons. |
Nariya Kentaya
Celestial Ascension
51
|
Posted - 2011.10.30 06:19:00 -
[30] - Quote
Thredd Necro wrote:Weaseliors GIANT WALL OF TEXT crits you for 1,000,000
TLDR version:
"I want CCP to make high-sec ganking easier because I don't think high-sec is any fun! (add red herring about bots here)"
That is a specious and naive argument.
Some folks prefer a different play style. Not everyone wants to pvp. This is not to say they should be made perfectly safe...not as much fun if your results are guaranteed.
Isn't the point of nullsec to go there and do nullsec stuff? You aren't doing anyone any favors by trying to force your preferred style of play on them.
As sandbox game, Eve is a troll/griefer paradise because death has no serious consequences, and neither does losing a ship. It's not like gankers care much about standings when they can always roll an alt with better manners...:)
In fact I think we should add npc podkills in 1.0 sec which will add another cost element to peoples ganking plans.
People do stuff all the time in this game that if eve WAS real life, would result in lots of contracts to hunt them, their clones and their DNA down to be put out of commission permanently.
This isn't real life, it's a game, a business with customers. Customers like options and choices. Some want to mine and sell, some want to run around and shoot stuff.
We already have enough options to have fun at other peoples expense. There is no reason to add more...:P
Problem #1 here, Capsuleers, like military special forces, are unspokenly above the law. upon theyre indoctriniation into capsuleer ranks, they are expected to do wahtever it takes through whatever means to achieve their goals, so much so that empires can't really do much to stop them, which is why CONCORD was formed to punish them, but concord themselves ahs no say with the empires so capsuleers will continue to clone. |
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Lord Zim
Bat Country Goonswarm Federation
32
|
Posted - 2011.10.30 10:48:00 -
[31] - Quote
Nariya Kentaya wrote:ok, i keep seeing people complaining about the UI, i never have trouble with it, so to help me understand: what about it is supposedly "broken"? what do you think should be done to fix it?
cause honestly, i see alot of people complaining, but i ahvent had any issues with UI so am a little confused as to exact reasons. Have you ever setup a POS reaction farm? Reset that to a different reaction? Pulled it down?
Have you ever setup a PI farm? Reset that to a different reaction? Imported or exported anything?
It would be nice if we could see which order lines in the market were ours.
Have you tried starting 10+ invention, research, copying or manufacturing jobs in a go?
That's just what I can think of offhand, I'm sure there's tons of other places where the UI, while usable, is still not as usable as it could've been. A good UI isn't supposed to work against you, whereas EVE's UI does. |
Thredd Necro
Imperial Academy Amarr Empire
15
|
Posted - 2011.10.30 15:31:00 -
[32] - Quote
Nariya Kentaya wrote: Problem #1 here, Capsuleers, like military special forces, are unspokenly above the law. upon theyre indoctriniation into capsuleer ranks, they are expected to do wahtever it takes through whatever means to achieve their goals, so much so that empires can't really do much to stop them, which is why CONCORD was formed to punish them, but concord themselves ahs no say with the empires so capsuleers will continue to clone.
Ginourmous wall of text incoming...
1.) Special Ops are usually not as above the law as movies and news make them out to be. Most of the good stuff civilians never hear about anyway unless it's very important for civilians to hear or it goes horribly wrong and the deploying nation or it's intended target speak of it.
2.) If there were rogue operators running around creating trouble the way people do in EVE they would likely compromise their identities and eventually be neutralized either by capture or termination. Plenty of other operators willing to take those jobs.
EVE has no fines, no incarceration and no execution. Fines, unless excessive, won't have any effect and even if we scaled fines with security level and number of offenses i'm still not sold that they would have any significant effect. The other two obviously won't work in an MMO.
How many sovereign nations on earth would allow a bunch of freaks to constantly fly around their airspace dogfighting with live weapons? How about flying in helicopters to loot walmart at gunpoint? (Hmm may have to reconsider the walmart thing...)
Do you really think a sovereign star nation would allow the same thing in their space?
Matilda: "Oh look bob it's those frisky capsuleers again, they blew up your mom." Bob: "Was she insured?"
Not so much.
This isn't about utopia or a perfect world. Sovereign nations that can't keep their citizens mostly safe from pirates and military incursions by foreign powers won't be sovereign nations for very long.
"This is a pvp game so everyone should be forced to pvp." That's a laugh. Combat leads to PTSD, mental breakdowns and often death or dismemberment or disfigurement. Since these things don't exist in EVE and there aren't any true consequences people think they should have the right to inflict themselves upon others whenever and wherever they want, unlike real civilization where police, military and civilians would take greater exception to what they are doing and take steps to hunt them down and stop them...permanently.
Economic issues?...Pfft...anyone can do business in high, low or null sec if they so choose. Silly to even talk about this.
What all this high-sec nonsense really comes down to is:
1.) Starve them out of high-sec and into null-sec (lower mission and incursion rewards and make it less easy for players to do peaceful business in high-sec, cap POS stations etc.)
Genius. Let's force players to do things they don't want to do. Gold star to whomever thought of this.
Maybe you haven't noticed but MOST people LIKE doing peaceful business in relative safety and their money goes into the military machine that keeps them safe and HAS AN INCENTIVE to do so---control and more money to keep the military going.
Silly to have a game with sovereign star nations that won't/can't protect their tax paying citizens...Hello, McFly...
EVE isn't a bunch of gangs and pirate camps, it's a group of sovereign star nations with regular militaries and police forces. Frankly I don't think there is ENOUGH npc military response in some places. If people don't feel safe, they will likely move themselves and their money elsewhere...less taxes=less funds for the military.
2.) Drive them out of high-sec and into null-sec. (Allow easier ganking and piracy.)
More genius. Go see that part about sovereign nations. Did i mention lots of folks don't mind paying someone else to do that nasty military stuff while they peacefully make money? EVE was clearly designed to allow that to happen.
Why make peaceful economic pursuits available at all if the plan is to have the hearts of sovereign nations like a mad max movie where anytime anyone can stroll in, burn down someones house, shoot their dog and steal their car and the bad guys only loss will be the car they drove?
If you want the wild, wild west go make a wild, wild west game. Oh wait we have that in EVE: it's called null-sec.
Quit trying to turn high-sec into 24/7 WWII Britain, Mad Max, or the wild, wild west.
Matilda: "Oh look bob it's those frisky capsuleers again, they blew up your mom." Bob: "Was she insured?"
Indeed.
Your sandbox has castles in it just like it would in real life and they are there to keep you from doing the one thing you want most: 24/7 piracy wherever you feel like it to force people to pvp when they might not want to...
It's not even slightly reasonable to ask for that.
Move along. Nothing to see here.
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Gheng Kondur
Serva Fidem
21
|
Posted - 2011.10.30 18:36:00 -
[33] - Quote
Love it, 100% support.
But of course on the condition that every non-bot who gets ganked gains a full refund from the Goons for all losses upon submission of a petition to CCP within 10 mins of the gank. Shouldn't cost you too much as they nearly all botters and as that is your target, you'll obviously have no problems with reparations to the few who aren't.
Or I have I just fed the troll.......
How about you carry on being goons and I carry on playing to avoid your gank fleets, as long as I can find a spare roid not being mined by a bot that has moved out of gal space that is.
Now back to the pretty lights, targets roid, hits button......
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Laechyd Eldgorn
draketrain
15
|
Posted - 2011.10.30 18:54:00 -
[34] - Quote
Big Bad Mofo wrote:This is exactly why new players leave the game, instead of trying to pick on highsec carebears then perhaps CCP should make PVP more available. LIke battlegrounds, ladders etc.. More 0.0 NPC regions, etc. Seriously we need to start preserving the new players..
new player doesn't mine in hulk or mackinaw, he doesn't even know what ice is for
new player doesn't do level 4 missions, he doesn't have enough standings to get agent talk to him, and they're way too difficult for him to complete anyway.
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Weaselior
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
1382
|
Posted - 2011.11.01 20:57:00 -
[35] - Quote
Gheng Kondur wrote:Love it, 100% support.
But of course on the condition that every non-bot who gets ganked gains a full refund from the Goons for all losses upon submission of a petition to CCP within 10 mins of the gank. Shouldn't cost you too much as they nearly all botters and as that is your target, you'll obviously have no problems with reparations to the few who aren't.
Of course not; if CCP's methods were effective at telling who was or was not a bot we wouldn't be having nearly as much fun. Good ganking is like a CAPCHA: it is the turing test.
If you happen to be dumber than a bot, well, we've got other problems. |
JitaJane
Science and Trade Institute Caldari State
8
|
Posted - 2011.11.05 21:40:00 -
[36] - Quote
Gheng Kondur wrote:Love it, 100% support.
But of course on the condition that every non-bot who gets ganked gains a full refund from the Goons for all losses upon submission of a petition to CCP within 10 mins of the gank. Shouldn't cost you to io much as they nearly all botters and as that is your target, you'll obviously have no problems with reparations to the few who aren't.
Or I have I just fed the troll.......
How about you carry on being goons and I carry on playing to avoid your gank fleets, as long as I can find a spare roid not being mined by a bot that has moved out of gal space that is.
Now back to the pretty lights, targets roid, hits button......
I agree with this position and wish to subscribe to your newsletter. |
Jack Carrigan
Order of the Shadow The Revenant Order
196
|
Posted - 2011.11.08 16:51:00 -
[37] - Quote
There are wonderful anti-botting systems in place. They're called "Neutron Blasters." They work best when employed on the Thorax-class Cruiser or Brutix-class Battlecruiser. "War is not measured in terms of who wins or loses, who is right or wrong.-á It is measured in terms of who survives." |
Sephiroth CloneIIV
Vitriol Ventures BLACK-MARK
10
|
Posted - 2011.11.08 20:30:00 -
[38] - Quote
If it is all one damage type then unless it deals more damage omni tanking could be done just as effectively.
How do resists of omin tanking match up to dual damage type tanking? Or single damage tanking?
That would give a big boast to reducing the number of slots for tanking if NPCS deal only one damage type instead of two, current 'basic' system uses one large rep, and 2 of each specifics. Geting 3 of the same type of hardener may not do much help, so people may just use two.
And, even if they deal more damage, a person (correction bot) may omni tank still, and dual rep. |
Akrasjel Lanate
Naquatech Conglomerate
170
|
Posted - 2011.11.13 13:27:00 -
[39] - Quote
Is this dude a troll or what... oh what he is a Goon. |
Jalmari Huitsikko
draketrain
0
|
Posted - 2011.11.19 11:13:00 -
[40] - Quote
Rumor says ccp is removing insurance from concord kills.
Basicly this means botting boost. Vast majority of low value suicide gank targets are botting mission runners, haulers or miners who fly in cheaply fit ships barely worth of ganking even with insurance.
For those real and dumb people flying in stupidly expensive ships or with stupidly expensive cargo this insurance change makes no difference they will be shot on sight anyhow.
So basicly what ccp is doing is not making pvp in hi sec more sensible. They want to make this game new WoW.
|
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Midnight DeZire
Tactical Marm1te Soldiers
3
|
Posted - 2011.11.20 17:05:00 -
[41] - Quote
Thredd Necro wrote:
Maybe you haven't noticed but MOST people LIKE doing peaceful business in relative safety and their money goes into the military machine that keeps them safe and HAS AN INCENTIVE to do so---control and more money to keep the military going.
Silly to have a game with sovereign star nations that won't/can't protect their tax paying citizens...Hello, McFly...
EVE isn't a bunch of gangs and pirate camps, it's a group of sovereign star nations with regular militaries and police forces. Frankly I don't think there is ENOUGH npc military response in some places. If people don't feel safe, they will likely move themselves and their money elsewhere...less taxes=less funds for the military.
I totally agree. I'm almost exclusively peaceful in Eve.
BUT, taken in the context of the OP, you seem to be attempting to justify Botting and I think you are wrong. I doubt you are, but it's a possible interpretation.
Great that we have the options to carebear, extract tears, set up empires, peacefully manufacture, whatever. But I HATE when people are too darned lazy to actually do it themselves and instead leave a bot to make the iskies for them, in whatever sec space they do it.
So, in the context of the OP, and speaking as a carebear making his first tentative steps into losec (and indeed these forums), I would be delighted to see bots given a harder time, even if that means I am at slightly greater risk of a hisec ganking by the Goons.
A positive side effect might also be a slight reduction in the risk-differential between hisec and losec. I can see no circumstances in which OP's proposal would make hisec ganking intolerably rife, but knowing that hisec isn't quite so safe might also cause more players to pluck up the courage to take a little more risk in losec on the side. Which has to be a good thing, right? |
Thredd Necro
Imperial Academy Amarr Empire
46
|
Posted - 2011.11.22 01:52:00 -
[42] - Quote
The original post is just "We're bored in null-sec and just want it to be easier to gank carebears since they have it too easy, oh and let's use the excuse of botting to help justify it."
High-sec doesn't need to be less safe and NO player needs to be FORCED into playing a game they don't want to play. Null-sec isn't SUPPOSED to be a nice place to live and high-sec IS. Why do people keep thinking that the game will be better if we get more people into low or null-sec? Isn't it good enough now? There are thousands of active players in null-sec every day as it is!
There is SUPPOSED to be a risk/reward differential and no, greater risk does not now and never will entitle anyone to greater rewards. Besides if the rewards are guaranteed as long as one survives, as death and ship loss have no real long-term consequences, why increase them for people who choose to live in a more dangerous, less regulated, and thereby less profitable place?
Lots more people like to READ about a low or null-sec lifestyle, the scams, the battles, and the politics than actually want to LIVE it, even in a game. EVE was out about a year and a half before WOW and recently CCP was celebrating passing the 350K subscription mark. 350K? Wow, (every pun intended), let's celebrate!
I think that in the pursuit of a sandbox game and assisted by the segment of their player base that was in tune with the idea of a game where "the ways we can **** each other over are nearly limitless", CCP alienated a lot of their potential player base and walked away from millions and millions of ISK.
(Perhaps THAT is the Goons greatest "scam" evah?...)
If their idea was, "Screw the carebear majority of our potential player base. Let's cater to the minority and create a game that appeals to peoples worst impulses and gives them excessive amounts of freedom to inflict themselves on unwilling victims who are looking to be endangered but not abused", TLDR version: 'Screw the money'", then I think they indeed succeeded.
EVE is a fun game. It isn't complicated, just complex. It isn't special for having a broader pvp base, just different. No one is special or elite because they are hardcore pvpers in EVE. It's just a game for entertainment. There is zero true risk or consequences of any kind in EVE. Any player can go carebear and make it all back easily. If you want to feel elite join the military and apply for special ops.
There is nothing wrong with trying to entertain the most people you can and popularize your brand as a service provider, CCP. Why not focus more on that?
Regarding botting:
Just because someone does not want it to be easier to gank players in high-sec, it does not mean they are pro-botting. You got trolled in by the red herring, "botting". I don't mine on any of my toons anyway.
That said,
Obviously the idea of a high tech society that CAN use automated mining NOT using it to increase efficiency and reduce personnel costs is silly, but a lot of folks think it is game breaking, (unlike strangers having free reign to come into your neighborhood and beat you up and steal your stuff and the worst thing that happens to them is they have to get a ride home with the stuff they stole because the police wrecked their car), but what if EVERYONE could do it?
Why NOT legalize it? Resources automagically renew anyway. It would give folks something else to build, use, shoot at, steal and salvage. Heck, piracy and scams and suicide ganking are okay, why not give botting a green light? This IS a sandbox right? People keep parroting that when it suits their needs.
POWER TO THE BOTTERS!!! DOWN WITH NULLBEARS!!!...
|
Cidwm
Caldari Provisions Caldari State
7
|
Posted - 2011.11.22 15:08:00 -
[43] - Quote
Im loving how a large majority of the positive posts are from members/friends of the goonswarm... Truly does show a swarm mentality rather than individualism. As much as i would love to see Bots completely annihilated, random suicide ganking isnt going to achieve this anyt ime soon. Though Ice prices for gallente ice are still high, I have heard reports of them using botters themselves, allowing there alliance to profit immensly since there trying to achieve a monopoly on Gallante. Unless the goons start doing soemthing other than re-inforcing there bad reputation, then i don't think ill ever been convinced that there actions actually benefit EVE in regards to players who want to join this great game and stick around a bit longer and geta bit more wise to the ways of EVE before being scammed/blown up. The only other thing i really dislike about the goons are there CSM influence.
The ONLY thing i praise the Goons for however is providing some form of entertainment and content in a player driven game. |
Weaselior
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
1700
|
Posted - 2011.11.22 15:24:00 -
[44] - Quote
this pretty much sums up the highsec response |
grazer gin
Raving Rednecks
6
|
Posted - 2011.11.23 03:23:00 -
[45] - Quote
GOON TEARS BEST TEARS |
Thredd Necro
Imperial Academy Amarr Empire
47
|
Posted - 2011.11.23 19:34:00 -
[46] - Quote
Weaselior wrote:this pretty much sums up the highsec response
It's an excellent response to the original premise of this thread.
Nullbears want more high-sec welfare.
Go get your tree fiddy from your nullbear friends. |
Weaselior
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
1716
|
Posted - 2011.11.23 19:37:00 -
[47] - Quote
threadd necro is merely the only honest highsec pubbie, freely admitting his desire for a safer highsec is to protect his EULA-breaking botting operation. he is not a lone villian; he is merely the lone honest one willing to openly stand behind what he does
but as an honest highsec pubbie he is an excellet test case: the standard-bearer of the 'anti-goon' highsec contingent is precisely what you'd expect and we've told everyone to expect: an unrepentant botter |
Thredd Necro
Imperial Academy Amarr Empire
48
|
Posted - 2011.11.23 20:07:00 -
[48] - Quote
Weaselior wrote:threadd necro is merely the only honest highsec pubbie, freely admitting his desire for a safer highsec is to protect his EULA-breaking botting operation. he is not a lone villian; he is merely the lone honest one willing to openly stand behind what he does
but as an honest highsec pubbie he is an excellet test case: the standard-bearer of the 'anti-goon' highsec contingent is precisely what you'd expect and we've told everyone to expect: an unrepentant botter
1.) Your reading and comprehension skills are rather poor. I have said almost nothing about goons as a group. I never ever said make it safer, I just said don't work so hard to make it less safe in illogical and unreasonable ways. I don't mine, so I certainly don't bot, and I do understand why folks don't like bots, but as I said and you obviously didn't bother to read, aside from this silly and self-serving thread, why NOT allow botting for a time and see what it REALLY does to game balance? EVE already has a skewed economy due to all the automagically renewing resources, which of course ARE necessary to the game. EVE already has an off-balance law enforcement system in place that many nullbears, including you, are trying to take even more advantage of. There could be ore things to process, sell and shoot at and certainly many nullbears need more money for the ships they burn through like an addict does crack.
2.) Calling me a high-sec pubbie is a compliment coming from you, you silly goonparrot/goonlemming. (Gosh isn't name calling FUN?...) This is a game and that's it. You are no one important because you play EVE. You are no one important because you are a nullbear. You will never be "elite" because you play EVE no matter how you play it.
Here's a cookie and some milk for you.
Try again when you can be bothered to read and comprehend rather than vomit the same nullbear codswallop over and over. |
Kiwis23
Kiwis Corp
0
|
Posted - 2011.11.23 20:07:00 -
[49] - Quote
If they would make that what you're suggesting, would still be relevant to call HI-sec a Hi-sec? All you want, is to kill everybody, just because you can't find victims in 0.0? Go against some big alliance and you will.Ther'es no reason why high sec carebears should be your targets. |
Weaselior
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
1716
|
Posted - 2011.11.23 20:13:00 -
[50] - Quote
we are busy murdering alliances in delve while we engage in the community service of clensing highsec of botters like threadd necro and yourself |
|
Lord Zim
Bat Country Goonswarm Federation
181
|
Posted - 2011.11.23 22:14:00 -
[51] - Quote
Kiwis23 wrote:just because you can't find victims in 0.0? I giggle every time some pubbie manages to type this out with a straight face. |
Kiwis23
Kiwis Corp
0
|
Posted - 2011.11.23 22:32:00 -
[52] - Quote
Weaselior wrote:we are busy murdering alliances in delve while we engage in the community service of clensing highsec of botters like threadd necro and yourself
I do feel insulted... Just because I live in High sec, does not mean I'm a bot.
I just enjoy some pve pew pew, and literaly hate pvp. that's why I don't want to go to low or 0.0 space. not because I'm a bot. besides - I'm earning about 100-150m/hour with normal missions, why the hell I would risk with whatI've earned and bot?
I have been suicide'ed 6 times if I remember correctly. And I hate those guys. lost around 6bil because of them. And learned a ways to avoid them. the thing you're suggesting would make me and I'm sure hundreds of other pleayers quiting EVE.
P.S. I was mining ice long time ago... until I got suicided... twice. So i switched to missions. More fun, less risk, yet more money to loose if something goes wrong. |
Lord Zim
Bat Country Goonswarm Federation
181
|
Posted - 2011.11.23 23:13:00 -
[53] - Quote
You fly a 1b isk mission boat?
Well, there's your problem then. |
Thredd Necro
Imperial Academy Amarr Empire
49
|
Posted - 2011.11.24 01:17:00 -
[54] - Quote
Lord Zim wrote:Kiwis23 wrote:just because you can't find victims in 0.0? I giggle every time some pubbie manages to type this out with a straight face.
I giggle every time a goonparrot/goonlemming uses the word "pubbie" as a pejorative. |
Lord Zim
Bat Country Goonswarm Federation
182
|
Posted - 2011.11.24 10:17:00 -
[55] - Quote
Thredd Necro wrote:Nullbears want more high-sec welfare. I don't need it. I've just made 20b in two weeks without even undocking. Hell, I've barely even had to log in that char. |
Weaselior
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
1722
|
Posted - 2011.11.26 01:15:00 -
[56] - Quote
Thredd Necro wrote:Lord Zim wrote:Kiwis23 wrote:just because you can't find victims in 0.0? I giggle every time some pubbie manages to type this out with a straight face. I giggle every time some goonparrot/goonlemming/nullbear manages to use the word "pubbie" as a pejorative. look it thinks its people |
Weaselior
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
1722
|
Posted - 2011.11.26 01:15:00 -
[57] - Quote
good old Thredd Necro walking on his hind legs like a little rory calhoon |
Surge Roth
Center for Advanced Studies Gallente Federation
2
|
Posted - 2011.11.27 16:25:00 -
[58] - Quote
Terrible |
Velicitia
Open Designs
124
|
Posted - 2011.11.27 19:54:00 -
[59] - Quote
I'm on the fence about ganking ... mostly because if I say "go for it" I am red to everyone in hisec and if I say "HELL NO" I'm apparently a "botting pubbie" or whatever the goons will label me as.
Either way, hisec needs fixed. I'm not sure if making ganking "easier" all across hisec is the right way to do things (though to anyone who's mining in a hulk in the rookie systems... GTFO and leave the veld to the rookies) ... but definitely something needs to be done in 0.5 to promote people working together to defend their stuff (and consequently, to help further erode the "Great Wall of Carebear").
e.g. something to give combat-capable people a chance at helping defend a mining op ... maybe removal of CONCORD in 0.5 ... and replacing with faction navies? you'll still get shot up by the navy, but they're tankable ... so if you decide to go GCC on someone showing up in one of the new BCs, you can get a point/neut/ECM on them right away without having to make it a guarenteed trip to your local market hub for a new ship.
|
Killer Gandry
Shadow of the Pain
15
|
Posted - 2011.11.28 05:53:00 -
[60] - Quote
Why o why are there certain people who blue a big part of EVE calling out for easier targets elsewhere?
Ah yes, because the targets there are easier.
A suggestion from Goon has merely one concept. To destroy the game for others but goons. However possible. Just dress it up nicely and make it look like it's for the greater good, I am sure more people who are wannabe goons will fall for it. But in the end only goons are served and to hell with the rest.
If goons want to PvP so badly why not fight something like the Mad Russians?
Ow wait, the Mad Russians can actually fight back and have enough ISK in the wallet to hire PL to mess along.
Can't have that can we.
Let's look for some poor slob alliance to destroy, best by use of metagaming, because heck, we are goons and no tears better than those who got backstabbed the most insidious way.
CCP created a sanbox and goons aren't the bully, they are the cunning little **** in the back manipulating the bully because most bullies are weakminded.
|
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Thredd Necro
Imperial Academy Amarr Empire
58
|
Posted - 2011.11.29 05:20:00 -
[61] - Quote
Weaselior wrote:good old Thredd Necro walking on his hind legs like a little rory calhoon
-1/10 from the russian judge.
Pathetic but worthy of notice for how sad an attempt that was.
You can have a cookie anyway though: |
Thredd Necro
Imperial Academy Amarr Empire
58
|
Posted - 2011.11.29 05:21:00 -
[62] - Quote
Lord Zim wrote:Thredd Necro wrote:Nullbears want more high-sec welfare. I don't need it. I've just made 20b in two weeks without even undocking. Hell, I've barely even had to log in that char.
Thanks for sharing! I am sure someone somewhere is proud of you. Weasel can split his cookie with you. |
Signal11th
243
|
Posted - 2011.12.02 14:55:00 -
[63] - Quote
Lord Zim wrote:Thredd Necro wrote:Nullbears want more high-sec welfare. I don't need it. I've just made 20b in two weeks without even undocking. Hell, I've barely even had to log in that char.
Not bad, can you let me have the name of the bot your using please ???
Sorry Zim but you asked for it....
God Said "Come Forth and receive eternal life!"-á I came second and won a toaster. |
The Mittani
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
2447
|
Posted - 2011.12.03 04:09:00 -
[64] - Quote
With the Destroyer buff and the new Tier 3 battlecruisers, I'm going to go ahead and 'mission accomplished' this thread. Grats all! The Office of the Chairman: A Thread for Constituent Issues |
xxVastorxx
The Scope Gallente Federation
0
|
Posted - 2011.12.03 18:16:00 -
[65] - Quote
If they make ganking easier. Can CCP also make it so Goons Arent always Full of Fail? If your so great at ganking and must suggest for easier ways to gank then you must be full of fail |
CynoNet Two
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
266
|
Posted - 2011.12.04 00:48:00 -
[66] - Quote
xxVastorxx wrote:If they make ganking easier. Can CCP also make it so Goons Arent always Full of Fail? If your so great at ganking and must suggest for easier ways to gank then you must be full of fail 'Fail' is a verb and not a noun. It's certainly not a proper noun either.
I'm not sure it's actually possible to be 'full of' or 'contain' a verb. I guess 'bad posting' must qualify, as you seem to be full of bad posting. |
The Mittani
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
2468
|
Posted - 2011.12.04 01:16:00 -
[67] - Quote
xxxxxBadposterxxxx has comments revolving entirely around tired internet memes. Who'd have guessed? The Office of the Chairman: A Thread for Constituent Issues |
xxVastorxx
The Scope Gallente Federation
0
|
Posted - 2011.12.04 04:01:00 -
[68] - Quote
CynoNet Two wrote:xxVastorxx wrote:If they make ganking easier. Can CCP also make it so Goons Arent always Full of Fail? If your so great at ganking and must suggest for easier ways to gank then you must be full of fail 'Fail' is a verb and not a noun. It's certainly not a proper noun either. I'm not sure it's actually possible to be 'full of' or 'contain' a verb. I guess 'bad posting' must qualify, as you seem to be full of bad posting.
Bad posting? lol? and this is comeing from a member of an alliance that acts like a bunch of 5 yearolds when momma and dadda dont buy them a candy from the grocery store. 2 Points for your efforts.
|
Weaselior
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
1762
|
Posted - 2011.12.04 04:22:00 -
[69] - Quote
xxVastorxx wrote:If they make ganking easier. Can CCP also make it so Goons Arent always Full of Fail? If your so great at ganking and must suggest for easier ways to gank then you must be full of fail I am full of thrashers
and ham |
Esunisen
Les Tueurs de Killer Une Pour Tous
16
|
Posted - 2011.12.04 14:55:00 -
[70] - Quote
Troll too obvious, but did work, can't believe it |
|
070707070707070707070707 m8m8m8m8m8m8
Science and Trade Institute Caldari State
0
|
Posted - 2011.12.05 05:52:00 -
[71] - Quote
I support this message |
Nicolo da'Vicenza
Divine Power. Cascade Imminent
126
|
Posted - 2011.12.05 06:57:00 -
[72] - Quote
okay now fix wardec evasion then fix the bounty hunter mechanic so it lets hisec guys get hunted down |
Intar Medris
Viziam Amarr Empire
0
|
Posted - 2011.12.05 07:28:00 -
[73] - Quote
I would like to see CONCORD not only blow your ship up, but fine you at the value of property destroyed. Of course this would go to the victim, but go to CONCORD. |
Nullbear Ranger
University of Caille Gallente Federation
0
|
Posted - 2011.12.05 19:49:00 -
[74] - Quote
CynoNet Two wrote:xxVastorxx wrote:If they make ganking easier. Can CCP also make it so Goons Arent always Full of Fail? If your so great at ganking and must suggest for easier ways to gank then you must be full of fail 'Fail' is a verb and not a noun. It's certainly not a proper noun either. I'm not sure it's actually possible to be 'full of' or 'contain' a verb. I guess 'bad posting' must qualify, as you seem to be full of bad posting.
Because nothing screams "1337" like correcting someone's grammar and spelling on an MMO forum amirite? "I wanna be a nullbear RANGER!!!-áLiving a life of virtual DANGER!!!-áSound off!..." |
Thredd Necro
Imperial Academy Amarr Empire
67
|
Posted - 2011.12.05 19:50:00 -
[75] - Quote
Weaselior wrote:xxVastorxx wrote:If they make ganking easier. Can CCP also make it so Goons Arent always Full of Fail? If your so great at ganking and must suggest for easier ways to gank then you must be full of fail I am full of thrashers and ham
Here's another cookie for dessert then!
Human beings, who are almost unique in having the ability to learn from the experience of others, are also remarkable for their apparent disinclination to do so. - Douglas Adams |
Weaselior
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
1785
|
Posted - 2011.12.06 15:30:00 -
[76] - Quote
I love the new insurance change
my home system is filled with macks that think they don't need to tank anymore; I have actually had to stop ganking because I ran out of t1 thorax mods (which I buy by the hundreds) and have overtaken mittens though a two-day campaign of savagery
also i podded hella miners |
People's Republic ofChina
My Other Capital Ship is Your Mom
22
|
Posted - 2011.12.09 22:40:00 -
[77] - Quote
The Mittani wrote:With the Destroyer buff and the new Tier 3 battlecruisers, I'm going to go ahead and 'mission accomplished' this thread. Grats all!
Loving my 650 dps Catalyst. |
Shirley Serious
The Khanid Sisters of Athra
0
|
Posted - 2011.12.10 13:01:00 -
[78] - Quote
Weaselior wrote: mission botting is wildly popular and has resulted in massive deflation of the value of LP, with some 5% implants going for a mere 10m isk (such as medium hybrid turret damage implants).
a minor point here, is that those 5% implants are handed out by storyline missions, bypassing the LP store mechanism. As are many other implants, including +4 attribute implants.
In the storyline missions the implants are given out for "free", or requiring something trivial like 10,000 Omber, or other items, which are worth considerably less than the equivalent LP store requirement.
e.g. a +4 implant, is 12k lp and 12M isk from an LP store, it should be worth >24M. You can buy them for 18M, because they are handed out by missions. the 5% medium hybrid implant, is 79k lp and 79M isk from lp store. Again, you can buy them for only 18m, which is a huge loss if any were obtained from LP stores, but they're not. They're given out in missions.
So, implants in mission loot/reward tables need looked at as well as any other issue. |
Rex Glendower
Mordus Faction
0
|
Posted - 2011.12.11 02:03:00 -
[79] - Quote
this thread cracks me up :P with the new t3 battle cruisers more carebear tears incoming |
Rex Glendower
Mordus Faction
0
|
Posted - 2011.12.11 04:48:00 -
[80] - Quote
thinking further on the base line premise of this thread mining botters . not mission botter mind you that's just plain wrong. the suggestion to give em the green light.
first i will put forth a real world technology that i have seen used by my relatives in farming on the premise of the expected gasohol boom that never happened they planted hundred's of acrs of corn, to harvest it they bought the state of the art harvester with a on board gps this gps had a record location function with built in memory and served as sprayer fertilizer and harvester once the field had been fertilized which was the first process in planting the corn the on board computer gps recorded the location and route of the field. after which, next time they moved the harvester to that field the gps recognized that it was at a prerecorded location and with the press of a button would place it's self in the start position and rerun the same route used every time they came to that field. the driver would kick back sleep drink smoke whatever while the machine did the work. this technology is in use and available right now in our simple little pre warp planet called earth. is it so far fetched that a advanced civilization that has mastered faster than warp travel, cloning and neural transmission of contentiousness. to have also mastered the simple procedure of a prerecorded set of actions for such a simple task as mining a rock? granted the driver needs to be in the seat but still not so far fetched as one would think.
second no miner even with several alts will ever be able to make more isk in 24 hours than a mission runner or a anomaly runner can make in a few hours. |
|
Nullbeard Rager
Republic Military School Minmatar Republic
1
|
Posted - 2011.12.11 07:27:00 -
[81] - Quote
Rex Glendower wrote:this thread cracks me up :P with the new t3 battle cruisers more carebear tears incoming
YES my brother! Let us go forth and collect moar carebear tears in a video game because that makes us really...well, really lame, never mind... |
Rex Glendower
Mordus Faction
0
|
Posted - 2011.12.11 08:15:00 -
[82] - Quote
Nullbeard Rager wrote:Rex Glendower wrote:this thread cracks me up :P with the new t3 battle cruisers more carebear tears incoming YES my brother! Let us go forth and collect moar carebear tears in a video game because that makes us really...well, really lame, never mind...
think you misunderstood stood my point .. i am not nor ever will be a ganker of any sort the point is the new ships seem very suited to the task of ganking half the armor cheap and can fit 8 large weapons my statement was a prediction not a invitation :p |
Nullbeard Rager
Republic Military School Minmatar Republic
1
|
Posted - 2011.12.11 18:27:00 -
[83] - Quote
Rex Glendower wrote:Nullbeard Rager wrote:Rex Glendower wrote:this thread cracks me up :P with the new t3 battle cruisers more carebear tears incoming YES my brother! Let us go forth and collect moar carebear tears in a video game because that makes us really...well, really lame, never mind... think you misunderstood stood my point .. i am not nor ever will be a ganker of any sort the point is the new ships seem very suited to the task of ganking half the armor cheap and can fit 8 large weapons my statement was a prediction not a invitation :p
Aah indeed.../bow |
Weaselior
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
1838
|
Posted - 2011.12.11 19:01:00 -
[84] - Quote
Nullbeard Rager wrote:Aah indeed.../bow you called someone lame and then typed the above on the internet
the irony is staggering |
Proteus Maximus
New Eden Outcasts Malicious Intent Gentleman's Club
20
|
Posted - 2011.12.11 23:28:00 -
[85] - Quote
Quote: Highsec is boring: nothing really ever happens. No grand battles, no shifts of territory, nothing.
Well anyone who residides in null sec should feel right at home then hu. You know with al of the NIP agreements out in "uncontrolled" space. just saying. Eve... Burn it....Burn it All |
Nullbeard Rager
Republic Military School Minmatar Republic
2
|
Posted - 2011.12.12 01:18:00 -
[86] - Quote
Weaselior wrote:Nullbeard Rager wrote:Aah indeed.../bow you called someone lame and then typed the above on the internet the irony is staggering
Clearly you entertain some fantasy that you are witty and funny.
It's good to have dreams I guess. |
Vimsy Vortis
Shoulda Checked Local Break-A-Wish Foundation
160
|
Posted - 2011.12.12 03:59:00 -
[87] - Quote
Killing missioners and incursion runners is great fun, don't get me wrong, but what about all these highsec research and manufacturing POSes?
Because of the immense difficulty of killing a POS with a limited number of people and no capitals highsec industrialists are getting away with putting significant assets in space in order to make money without those assets ever being in danger of being destroyed. Nobody likes a large faction tower covered in ECM batteries run by a 2 man corp that you can't kill due to the horrible war mechanics. |
Weaselior
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
1845
|
Posted - 2011.12.12 14:47:00 -
[88] - Quote
Nullbeard Rager wrote:Clearly you entertain some fantasy that you are witty and funny.
It's good to have dreams I guess.
i would find it far more concerning if you thought i was witty and funny |
Weaselior
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
1845
|
Posted - 2011.12.12 14:48:00 -
[89] - Quote
Vimsy Vortis wrote:Killing missioners and incursion runners is great fun, don't get me wrong, but what about all these highsec research and manufacturing POSes?
Because of the immense difficulty of killing a POS with a limited number of people and no capitals highsec industrialists are getting away with putting significant assets in space in order to make money without those assets ever being in danger of being destroyed. Nobody likes a large faction tower covered in ECM batteries run by a 2 man corp that you can't kill due to the horrible war mechanics.
To deal with pos, you need to fix empire war mechanics which are a joke. Also pos that go offline should be shootable to get rid of the detrius of failed corporations that will never re-online the thing. |
Signal11th
314
|
Posted - 2011.12.12 14:51:00 -
[90] - Quote
Weaselior wrote:Vimsy Vortis wrote:Killing missioners and incursion runners is great fun, don't get me wrong, but what about all these highsec research and manufacturing POSes?
Because of the immense difficulty of killing a POS with a limited number of people and no capitals highsec industrialists are getting away with putting significant assets in space in order to make money without those assets ever being in danger of being destroyed. Nobody likes a large faction tower covered in ECM batteries run by a 2 man corp that you can't kill due to the horrible war mechanics. To deal with pos, you need to fix empire war mechanics which are a joke. Also pos that go offline should be shootable to get rid of the detrius of failed corporations that will never re-online the thing.
+1 God Said "Come Forth and receive eternal life!"-á I came second and won a toaster. |
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Reaver Glitterstim
Dromedaworks inc
12
|
Posted - 2011.12.16 23:30:00 -
[91] - Quote
Rex Glendower wrote:Nullbeard Rager wrote:Rex Glendower wrote:this thread cracks me up :P with the new t3 battle cruisers more carebear tears incoming YES my brother! Let us go forth and collect moar carebear tears in a video game because that makes us really...well, really lame, never mind... think you misunderstood stood my point .. i am not nor ever will be a ganker of any sort the point is the new ships seem very suited to the task of ganking half the armor cheap and can fit 8 large weapons my statement was a prediction not a invitation :p The new battlecruisers are not making suicide ganking easier, they're simply balancing with the new insurance policy. If anything, you lose a bit more from ganking with a tier 3 BC than previously with a battleship. And though they may have a bit better of a turret setup, they can't use drones to help the gank.
I support the OP's point. I wouldn't go too far with it; since missioning is more interactive than botting, it should offer more protection. Perhaps one way to reduce mission botting is to make level 4 missions too difficult for a single player flying anything short of officer fit, and rather to balance them for two players both in a tech 1 ratting ship with some tech 2 modules. That way, players will find ingenious new ways to complete the missions more easily, while botters will struggle with trying to get their already complicated bots to actually work together, and a lot of them will probably just give up and get an easily-configured mining bot.
I also think that the Angel Cartel should be changed to use almost only explosive and kinetic damage. I love fighting rats that have 2 damage types and 2 resist holes because then I can fit my ship specifically for that, and it makes the mission easier. If that makes me more open to ganks, so be it. It's not like I'm AFK when I mission, so I'm not really afraid. |
Retar Aveymone
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
0
|
Posted - 2012.02.08 20:45:00 -
[92] - Quote
I would like to know what csm candidates feel about this key issue |
rodyas
Tie Fighters Inc
259
|
Posted - 2012.02.08 21:04:00 -
[93] - Quote
I imagine he thinks its bad to necro threads. Signature removed, CCP Phantom |
Alavaria Fera
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
50
|
Posted - 2012.02.08 21:05:00 -
[94] - Quote
Weaselior wrote:To deal with pos, you need to fix empire war mechanics which are a joke. Also pos that go offline should be shootable to get rid of the detrius of failed corporations that will never re-online the thing. What? That's horrible, CONCORD should clean up that kind of litter.
|
Krios Ahzek
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
486
|
Posted - 2012.02.08 21:13:00 -
[95] - Quote
Alavaria Fera wrote:Weaselior wrote:To deal with pos, you need to fix empire war mechanics which are a joke. Also pos that go offline should be shootable to get rid of the detrius of failed corporations that will never re-online the thing. What? That's horrible, CONCORD should clean up that kind of litter.
Fellow Goon Capsuleer, why should CONCORD worry itself with cleaning the space lanes when plenty of poor spacers lick their lips at the thought of opening fire with their Salvager beams on the wreck of a decommissioned Privately Owned Starbase?
Nay, CONCORD should leave the Empire constellations alone and concentrate on true threats to galactic stability, such as Sansha Kuvakei and his brainwashed goon (note the lack of capital G) hordes. |
Tomytronic
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
61
|
Posted - 2012.02.08 21:17:00 -
[96] - Quote
concord should be killable and should drop t2 bpos and salvage into t3 parts
support tomytronic for csm! |
Dztrgovac
28
|
Posted - 2012.02.08 23:59:00 -
[97] - Quote
What was your motto anyway?
"We don't want to ruin the game, we love the game, we want to ruin the game for you".
Any non Goons voting for Goon delegates and proposals are suicidal. |
Fractals 4Lyfe
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
27
|
Posted - 2012.02.09 19:59:00 -
[98] - Quote
Dztrgovac wrote:What was your motto anyway?
"We don't want to ruin the game, we love the game, we want to ruin the game for you".
Any non Goons voting for Goon delegates and proposals are suicidal.
Yeah, I've never heard this motto, and whether you like him or not, The Mittani has been pretty influential in getting CCP back on track with actual internet spaceships.
On topic, increasing highsec ganking is a good thing for everyone, including highsec people. Eve is and should be a multiplayer game, and mechanics that encourage people to work together for protection and profit are never bad. No one should be mining alone: it's horribly boring, and not helping anyone else enjoy the game. Much as I find mining horribly boring, highsec mining corps are still better and more enriching for the game than solo miners. |
ViperLok
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
2
|
Posted - 2012.02.09 21:21:00 -
[99] - Quote
Posting for my support. |
Sullivar N
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
0
|
Posted - 2012.02.09 23:00:00 -
[100] - Quote
Remember when everyone was sure that taking away insurance for CONCORD-popped ships was going to reduce the number of ganks? And then it actually increased? Good times. |
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Alavaria Fera
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
79
|
Posted - 2012.02.09 23:41:00 -
[101] - Quote
Dztrgovac wrote:What was your motto anyway?
"We don't want to ruin the game, we love the game, we want to ruin the game for you". What? That implies we'd harm ourselves just to harm you.
No, the motto is "Internet Spaceships. SERIOUS BUSINESS MINING OP NOW NOW NOW!! DPS ON THE GATES, DROP BUBBLES !!"
Or just "Internet Spaceships. SERIOUS BUSINESS"
|
Tiger Would
Imperial Academy Amarr Empire
129
|
Posted - 2012.02.10 00:17:00 -
[102] - Quote
Quote:Everyone in Highsec Should Be Easier to Gank
L2P ?
Once you think you have it all, you-áhave actually become-áignorant towards everything else.
T. Would |
Mozes Kriebel
Federal Navy Academy Gallente Federation
0
|
Posted - 2012.02.11 01:12:00 -
[103] - Quote
You are talking about bots in highsec, what would you suggest in regards to the bots in null-sec? Some people told me that 95% of bots actually are fielded mostly in those area's. |
HELIC0N ONE
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
120
|
Posted - 2012.02.12 16:34:00 -
[104] - Quote
Mozes Kriebel wrote:You are talking about bots in highsec, what would you suggest in regards to the bots in null-sec? Some people told me that 95% of bots actually are fielded mostly in those area's. That figure (or indeed any other given figure) is pretty much impossible to back up, of course. |
Mozes Kriebel
Federal Navy Academy Gallente Federation
0
|
Posted - 2012.02.12 17:11:00 -
[105] - Quote
HELIC0N ONE wrote:Mozes Kriebel wrote:You are talking about bots in highsec, what would you suggest in regards to the bots in null-sec? Some people told me that 95% of bots actually are fielded mostly in those area's. That figure (or indeed any other given figure) is pretty much impossible to back up, of course.
They lied!!
Bastards!!!
|
Weaselior
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
2252
|
Posted - 2012.02.20 21:59:00 -
[106] - Quote
I have returned from posting exile to carry the banner of ganking once again. Now, more than ever, it is critical to know to what extent the highsec candidates support botting and wish to leave it unpoliced. |
knobber Jobbler
Seniors Clan Get Off My Lawn
37
|
Posted - 2012.02.20 22:09:00 -
[107] - Quote
Weaselior wrote:Big Bad Mofo wrote:This is exactly why new players leave the game, instead of trying to pick on highsec carebears then perhaps CCP should make PVP more available. LIke battlegrounds, ladders etc.. More 0.0 NPC regions, etc. Seriously we need to start preserving the new players.. Precisely, we must make pvp more avalible. Suicide ganking, an interesting and fun pvp activity unique to EVE, is a great way to start: newbies learn the basics of fitting effective tanks, or learn how to fit gank ships to do their own suicide ganking. It is merely a lack of imagination and vision that prevents highseccers from seeing how much better suicide ganking makes highsec.
Wouldnt fixing faction warfare be a place to start. I don't think ccp will ever make it easier to gank people in high sec but they have ways open to them to get more people to pvp. |
Tasiv Deka
Applied Dynamics
36
|
Posted - 2012.02.29 10:37:00 -
[108] - Quote
Despite what this thread may or may not have started as it has come up with atleast two good ideas in my opinion... those being 1.) Making it easier to clean up offlined poses( such as after one to two months of being offlined the pos becomes either free to shoot or hackable to change ownership) and for idea 2.) make lvl 4s require actual teamwork of say 2-5 people instead of being soloable (even the Mittani has stated that incursions are preferable to lvl 4s because they encourage teamwork and discourage botters.) Now as for botting as a whole i dont think ganking is the appropriate answer ( i used to then saw the displacement from the icecapades that occurred) people do eventually wise up and if they come back home one day to see thier ship has gotten blown up for the 5th time that week most of them (or atleast some of them) are just going to move to a new location for a while however i also dont think "minigames" are the answer, granted those two times a month i mine it would be slightly more interesting.
I just realized i havent given an idea on how to end bots yet...
well the increase in misson difficulty to require multiple people "could" help in that regards and as for mining well perhaps make it harder to find the asteroids something like more belts but less asteroids per belt so you would have to constantly scan down a new belt after say every cargohold or two or npc miners that you actually have to compete with for the ore and blowing up the npc would bring about a concord response...
tl;dr make the activities harder not the ships weaker CCP add another race of ships into the game... Not even the people just the ships... now i know there would be all sorts of copyright issues to iron out... but i want to fly an Irken Titan known as the "Massive"... Invader Zim is an amazing show. |
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