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CCP: Carrier bonuses are not balanced

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Acwron	Posted - 2005.12.19 10:37:00 - [1] Originally by: Jim Steele that 10% extra damage equates to another 1000 DPS when fielding 10 fighters!! That to me is very unbalanced making it the only carrier worth flying imho. So i agree 5% per level would make it more in line with the others. As for the matari one, well, i never liked matari ships Well though I agree that the gallente one is the best. The Minmatar one is the 2nd best because if you use your Carrier in Combat (as read in Armor/Shield Bonus) you have already done something wrong. But still the gallente Bonus is way better than the other ones. Gallente: best damage Minmatar: 2nd best dmg (check drone bay size), a little bit better at Safespot support Caldari/Amarr: for people how didn't get the purpose of carriers or are too incompetent to keep them safe.
Acwron	Posted - 2005.12.20 19:53:00 - [2] Originally by: Kcel Chim [...] Thanks :)
Acwron	Posted - 2005.12.21 01:13:00 - [3] Edited by: Acwron on 21/12/2005 01:13:35 Cloud anybody of those that want to use a Carrier in a battle explain me it's practical use in a real battle? Med slot: Any kind of EW can be done tentimes better and cheaper by any other ship. Highslots (5): One perhaps taken by gangassist. Rest Extra Drone modules. Perhaps one Shield/Armor Repper each. In any real battle situation the boosting for your mates is definitly not going to happen. It has no use there. Anybody trying this is either going to lose the ship or outnumbered the enemy so heavily that it wasn't necessary in the first place. Therefore Amarr/Caldari Bonus pointless unless you get caught. Minmatar a bit useful (though having the smallest cap) to boost BS at SP/POS. The Gallente Bonus is by a huge margin the most useful one. So could we quit the discussion about taking your Carrier into Combat?
Acwron	Posted - 2005.12.21 01:55:00 - [4] Edited by: Acwron on 21/12/2005 01:56:05 Originally by: Kcel Chim Originally by: Acwron Edited by: Acwron on 21/12/2005 01:13:35 Cloud anybody of those that want to use a Carrier in a battle explain me it's practical use in a real battle? Med slot: Any kind of EW can be done tentimes better and cheaper by any other ship. Highslots (5): One perhaps taken by gangassist. Rest Extra Drone modules. Perhaps one Shield/Armor Repper each. In any real battle situation the boosting for your mates is definitly not going to happen. It has no use there. Anybody trying this is either going to lose the ship or outnumbered the enemy so heavily that it wasn't necessary in the first place. Therefore Amarr/Caldari Bonus pointless unless you get caught. Minmatar a bit useful (though having the smallest cap) to boost BS at SP/POS. The Gallente Bonus is by a huge margin the most useful one. So could we quit the discussion about taking your Carrier into Combat? how do you come to that conclusion after making such a post ? if remote reparing in battle is totally useless (as you stated, and i pointed out earlier) how does the minmatar get on the "usefull" spot then ? If im not in the frontline and can repair away at a SS or Pos i dont think the 2-5 seconds extra time will really make ANY difference or could you tell me where it matters ? As for the carriers use, i doubt they will be safespotted all the time, why would anyone want to fly a ship and miss the whole fight ? I could do that in a logistic ship. So lets assume by default if its not an alt its in the battle ;) Well what does a Carrier in a battle contribute? PS: about the minmatar bonus. At least it has some use (though hardly any) in comparision to the Amarr/Caldari one when being on a SP/POS.
Acwron	Posted - 2005.12.21 02:15:00 - [5] Originally by: Kcel Chim Edited by: Kcel Chim on 21/12/2005 02:01:22 direct fightersupport, tanking (you know soaking up fire from newbs who wanna kill a capital and ignore their bses getting popped 1 by 1), fast shipreplacements suicide rifters ftw and last but not least 3 gangmods. And last but not least the omnipresent moral boost. Would you like to have your "king" tucked away in some deep SS or rather directly with you ? - Soaking up Damage: about 60k Armor/Shield with skills per Carrier. j0s said something along the lines of 800 dps tanking. So let's say 15 damage BS (about 500 dps/250 after resis) shoot the Carrier. So about 12 BS actually do damage. 12250=3k dps. 60k/3k= 20 seconds. Once a decent amount of BS actually lock the Carrier it's toast in no time. Even if you triple the time needed you know a minute means under worst conditions about 4 lost BS. The fighter Support itself can be done way better by directing them to tackling frigs. (faster lock, know when target is scrambelt, about 5 fighters = the damage of a close range BS) Gang assit can aswell be done from a SP/POS. Ship replacement at the Carrier in the Battlefield: bad idea. sitting with a pod next to the carrier. drag out ship to assemble, fit ship. Considering lag it's all done way better at a SP/POS Originally by:* Kcel Chim There is not a single reason a carrier with a good tank shouldnt be in a battle (one which is remotely realistical and winable) afterall its a combat ship. I hate ppl who buy so called "battleships" but never take them out for a ride. Worst case is you lose it. edit: to your edit, you do actually know that to "repair" a dread in a pos siege the carrier has to substain itself under the randomly switching gunturrets of the pos aswell? So a solid 20% better tank is more worth then a 2s faster boosting rate Well I didn't think somebody would use his Carrier to boost Dreads at a POS :)
Acwron	Posted - 2005.12.21 02:36:00 - [6] Edited by: Acwron on 21/12/2005 02:44:18 Originally by: Kcel Chim your numbers are wrong, a carrier has more then 50% resistances to all if its semi tanked and it can repair some dmg aswell. however i agree a carrier is somewhat of a toy atm. This doesnt make the argument less important to point out that 3 of 4 ships have actually a "good" bonus while 1 gets the duct tape bonus again. "doh couldnt think of something lets say it makes ummmm, yea it repairs faster ftw!" Actually I did factor in the tanking and resis if you would look at the post again :) Though of course the numbers are just estamits and a bit off. Just to give an idea about what kind of tanking time we are talking about. PS: I don't think that Carriers are toys. I think they rule big time. The ability to tie the damage output of 3-4 Closerange BS to a tackler rules :) but taking them into a battle is just plain stupid.
Acwron	Posted - 2005.12.21 16:11:00 - [7] Actually I would fit something totally different in my med and lows. Not a tank. (perhaps a small one (repper, 1-2 hardener))

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