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CCP: Carrier bonuses are not balanced

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Niki Silver	Posted - 2005.12.19 07:08:00 - [1] Amarr Carrier 5% Armor resist per level Caldari Carrier 5% Shield resist per level Gallente Carrier 10% Fighter damage per level Minmatar Carrier 5% Remote Repair / Xfer duration per level Ok first off why excactly does Gallente get 10% damage when Caldari and Ammar get 5% resist. Gallente fighter bonus needs to be decreased to 5% to maintain balance. And Minmatar is the gimpiest one? WTF Give it a fighter speed bonus or something, not a lame ass duration bonus. Using those remote modules on a battleship you are going to do at the most two pulses. So level 4 Gallente carrier does 40% more damage with its fighters while Minmatar sends two cycles of armor to a battle ship 2 seconds faster? That is total bull**** CCP
Niki Silver	Posted - 2005.12.19 07:08:00 - [2] Amarr Carrier 5% Armor resist per level Caldari Carrier 5% Shield resist per level Gallente Carrier 10% Fighter damage per level Minmatar Carrier 5% Remote Repair / Xfer duration per level Ok first off why excactly does Gallente get 10% damage when Caldari and Ammar get 5% resist. Gallente fighter bonus needs to be decreased to 5% to maintain balance. And Minmatar is the gimpiest one? WTF Give it a fighter speed bonus or something, not a lame ass duration bonus. Using those remote modules on a battleship you are going to do at the most two pulses. So level 4 Gallente carrier does 40% more damage with its fighters while Minmatar sends two cycles of armor to a battle ship 2 seconds faster? That is total bull**** CCP
F'nog	Posted - 2005.12.19 07:10:00 - [3] To answer the first part, Gallente are drone specialists, so it makes sense. But I don't really know how anyone can complain about carriers until they are actually built and used. Until then, I think everyone needs to hold their breaths and wait and see. Originally by: rowbin hod Fragm's Oversized Ego Cannon barely scratches the forums, inflicting omgnoonecares damage.
F'nog	Posted - 2005.12.19 07:10:00 - [4] To answer the first part, Gallente are drone specialists, so it makes sense. But I don't really know how anyone can complain about carriers until they are actually built and used. Until then, I think everyone needs to hold their breaths and wait and see. EVE Online \| EVE Insider \| Forums
j0sephine	Posted - 2005.12.19 07:16:00 - [5] Edited by: j0sephine on 19/12/2005 07:16:23 "To answer the first part, Gallente are drone specialists, so it makes sense." Well, the part that doesn't make much sense is, Gallente get bonus which is equivalent of two drone damage mods, while others get bonus that is comparable to mounting single invulnerability field/adaptive nano. (save for Minmatar ships which get quite unique bonus there) ... so basically the Gallente are given kind of one more slot than anyone else for no apparent reason, and their bonus should possibly be reduced to something like 5-7.5% of extra damage per level..? o.O;
Jim Raynor	Posted - 2005.12.19 07:24:00 - [6] WHY DOES TEH MANTICORE HAVE 3 LAUNCHERS? =( ------ Campaign to remove shield hardener effects, they suck!!
Ante	Posted - 2005.12.19 07:37:00 - [7] Originally by: Jim Raynor WHY DOES TEH MANTICORE HAVE 3 LAUNCHERS? =( More to a stealth bomber than the number of launchers?
Techyon	Posted - 2005.12.19 07:54:00 - [8] Originally by: Ante Originally by: Jim Raynor WHY DOES TEH MANTICORE HAVE 3 LAUNCHERS? =( More to a stealth bomber than the number of launchers? More to a carrier than the amount of dmg the fighters do ? ------
Face Lifter	Posted - 2005.12.19 08:41:00 - [9] I'd agree that Gallente carrier is the best and Minmatar one is the worst. But do I think CCP should fix this? No. I believe in the idea of faction strengths and weaknesses. I don't want every faction to have near-identical ships. Why have different factions then? You already have the ability to cross-train for different faction ships. There is nothing stopping you, or discouraging you, from choosing something you want to specialize in and training for that - regardless of which faction your character has started from. Gallente are the main drone faction by rp reasons. It's only logical that if we are to have strengths and weaknesses system, Gallente carrier should be its strength. You think Minmatar carrier is crap? don't train to fly one! nobody is forcing you to fly it. And don't make selfish arguments like "but I already have most of the prerequisites to fly Minmatar carrier! I want it to be uber cause it'll take me longer to train for Gallente one". - No, that's selfish, shut up, don't try to ruin the game by making everything the same, just so you could have it easy.
Niki Silver	Posted - 2005.12.19 08:47:00 - [10] Originally by: F'nog To answer the first part, Gallente are drone specialists, so it makes sense. But I don't really know how anyone can complain about carriers until they are actually built and used. Until then, I think everyone needs to hold their breaths and wait and see. Yes we all know that Gallente are drone specialists. But 10% per level is over the top. It needs to be reduced to 5% to be inline with Caldari and Amarr. And the Matari one needs changed all together.

Aion Amarra	Posted - 2005.12.19 08:51:00 - [11] The problem is not that the Gallente are best with drones. I wouldn't mind a 5% damage bonus (which, compared to the bonuses on ALL non capital ships, equals one resist bonus), but a 10% damage bonus is overpowered (as it equals two normal ship bonuses). Besides, that puny 'little' gallente bonus (which applies to BOTH carriers AND motherships) creates a difference of about 800-1000dps for the carriers and more than twice as much for the motherships. Who needs resists when you can pwn BS' as fast as you can lock them?
Face Lifter	Posted - 2005.12.19 08:53:00 - [12] I wouldn't mind if damage bonus was reduced to 5%. I think that's reasonable.
Grimwalius d'Antan	Posted - 2005.12.19 08:59:00 - [13] Very well then, why not reduce the optimal range bonuses for caldari rail ships from 10% optimal to 5% optimal, because the percentage is obviously the only way to balance the game Make every bonus percentage the same in the game, and everything is balanced, right?
Face Lifter	Posted - 2005.12.19 09:19:00 - [14] Originally by: Grimwalius d'Antan Very well then, why not reduce the optimal range bonuses for caldari rail ships from 10% optimal to 5% optimal, because the percentage is obviously the only way to balance the game Make every bonus percentage the same in the game, and everything is balanced, right? I doubt you seriously believe that 5% more damage is about as powerful as 5% more range. Your comment doesn't add anything of value to this discussion
Jim Steele	Posted - 2005.12.19 09:24:00 - [15] that 10% extra damage equates to another 1000 DPS when fielding 10 fighters!! That to me is very unbalanced making it the only carrier worth flying imho. So i agree 5% per level would make it more in line with the others. As for the matari one, well, i never liked matari ships Author of "The Apoc Guide"
Niki Silver	Posted - 2005.12.19 10:00:00 - [16] Originally by: Grimwalius d'Antan Very well then, why not reduce the optimal range bonuses for caldari rail ships from 10% optimal to 5% optimal, because the percentage is obviously the only way to balance the game Make every bonus percentage the same in the game, and everything is balanced, right? Grimwalius the point you are trying to make is understood. But you are comparing apples and oranges. See Jim Steele's post above.
LUKEC	Posted - 2005.12.19 10:19:00 - [17] Originally by: Jim Steele that 10% extra damage equates to another 1000 DPS when fielding 10 fighters!! That to me is very unbalanced making it the only carrier worth flying imho. So i agree 5% per level would make it more in line with the others. As for the matari one, well, i never liked matari ships Manticore does 50% more dmg than nemesis. HatePeace LoveWar[ATUK] > they ebayed the bs for grain
Jim Steele	Posted - 2005.12.19 10:26:00 - [18] Originally by: LUKEC Manticore does 50% more dmg than nemesis. This thread has nothing to do with stealth bombers Oveur has already said the manticore would be balanced, as will carriers im sure.. Author of "The Apoc Guide"
Friar Vigfus	Posted - 2005.12.19 10:33:00 - [19] Ah balance talks about ship's that have never been flown on the test server much less even started producing yet on TQ. Glad to see Ships and Modules forum is still full of monkeys.
Acwron	Posted - 2005.12.19 10:37:00 - [20] Originally by: Jim Steele that 10% extra damage equates to another 1000 DPS when fielding 10 fighters!! That to me is very unbalanced making it the only carrier worth flying imho. So i agree 5% per level would make it more in line with the others. As for the matari one, well, i never liked matari ships Well though I agree that the gallente one is the best. The Minmatar one is the 2nd best because if you use your Carrier in Combat (as read in Armor/Shield Bonus) you have already done something wrong. But still the gallente Bonus is way better than the other ones. Gallente: best damage Minmatar: 2nd best dmg (check drone bay size), a little bit better at Safespot support Caldari/Amarr: for people how didn't get the purpose of carriers or are too incompetent to keep them safe.

Grimpak	Posted - 2005.12.19 10:38:00 - [21] Originally by: Face Lifter I'd agree that Gallente carrier is the best and Minmatar one is the worst. But do I think CCP should fix this? No. I believe in the idea of faction strengths and weaknesses. I don't want every faction to have near-identical ships. Why have different factions then? You already have the ability to cross-train for different faction ships. There is nothing stopping you, or discouraging you, from choosing something you want to specialize in and training for that - regardless of which faction your character has started from. Gallente are the main drone faction by rp reasons. It's only logical that if we are to have strengths and weaknesses system, Gallente carrier should be its strength. You think Minmatar carrier is crap? don't train to fly one! nobody is forcing you to fly it. And don't make selfish arguments like "but I already have most of the prerequisites to fly Minmatar carrier! I want it to be uber cause it'll take me longer to train for Gallente one". - No, that's selfish, shut up, don't try to ruin the game by making everything the same, just so you could have it easy. imho don't belive the minmatar carrier is the worst. From a deep strike behind the enemy lines, the minmatar one can excel with it's remote repairing bonuses, plus it has the second largest drone bay. It also looks damn cool ------------------- Celestial Horizon: we go zerg on you
Jim Steele	Posted - 2005.12.19 10:42:00 - [22] Originally by: Acwron Well though I agree that the gallente one is the best. The Minmatar one is the 2nd best because if you use your Carrier in Combat (as read in Armor/Shield Bonus) you have already done something wrong. Not nessisarily, there is always the option of using two or three and healing each other.. Also think their bonuses would make them stand up to dread fire more easily. Author of "The Apoc Guide"
Grimpak	Posted - 2005.12.19 10:48:00 - [23] Originally by: Jim Steele Originally by: Acwron Well though I agree that the gallente one is the best. The Minmatar one is the 2nd best because if you use your Carrier in Combat (as read in Armor/Shield Bonus) you have already done something wrong. Not nessisarily, there is always the option of using two or three and healing each other.. Also think their bonuses would make them stand up to dread fire more easily. someone understands me aswell ------------------- Celestial Horizon: we go zerg on you
Niki Silver	Posted - 2005.12.19 22:32:00 - [24] Originally by: Friar Vigfus Ah balance talks about ship's that have never been flown on the test server much less even started producing yet on TQ. Glad to see Ships and Modules forum is still full of monkeys. Thank you for your constructive comments and participation in this discussion. Monkey boy.
aeti	Posted - 2005.12.19 22:43:00 - [25] you do realise how insanely well the amarr, and especially the caldari one will be able to tank? :p minmatar one could do with some more, possibly a cap reduction as well
Rexy	Posted - 2005.12.19 22:58:00 - [26] Originally by: Friar Vigfus Ah balance talks about ship's that have never been flown on the test server much less even started producing yet on TQ. Glad to see Ships and Modules forum is still full of monkeys. lets ditch the trolls and the monkeys m'kay, the stats are on TQ , doesnt really matter if people can fly em or not. what is kinda obvious that the minny one has a useless bonus, sure it can boost other ships shield/armor a bit better then the others can, but with 5/6 highs seriously, how much boosting do you want. it's nice to rep ships at a safespot, but a 5% reduction is hardly going to make a difference there. to the earlier poster about every faction having it's strenght, true enough, i dont want a 10% damage bonus on all ships, but i do want something more usefull, wich gives each carrier it's pro and cons, right now i only see cons. and a higher pricetag then other carriers
Rawthorm	Posted - 2005.12.19 23:05:00 - [27] Oh get over it. You build what one suits you. If you want to attack with ur carrier you use the gallante one. You want to play it safe you build the caldari or Amarr ones. You want to maximise your abiliy as a team player you use the Minmatar one. Each has its far superiour use and the sooner people like the topic starter stop trying to get us flying identical grey boxes the better...
Lodovik Trema	Posted - 2005.12.19 23:08:00 - [28] Come on gallente are so nerfed by their weapns that use both ammo and cap that one ship thats good wont make the difference
Grut	Posted - 2005.12.19 23:31:00 - [29] Originally by: F'nog To answer the first part, Gallente are drone specialists, so it makes sense. But I don't really know how anyone can complain about carriers until they are actually built and used. Until then, I think everyone needs to hold their breaths and wait and see. Read the back story again gallente are drone specialists Caldari are fighter specialists so make the caldari carrier uber plz ccp Kinsy > deadman you there? Kinsy > are either of us in pods, becase we dont know... Mostly harmless [ 2005.12.09 19:22:50 ] (notify) You have started trying to warp scramble the Dreadnought
SengH	Posted - 2005.12.19 23:36:00 - [30] what about a 5% increase to drone speed and -2% to drone sig radius per level? Would that not make sense with the usual matari bonuses?



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