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Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 2 post(s) |
Al Thorr
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Posted - 2005.12.19 13:50:00 -
[31]
Edited by: Al Thorr on 19/12/2005 13:51:51
Signed, Signed Nay Thrice signed.
Yes the Ram destruction now points to the fact that RAMS are NO longer "TOOLS" but regular components. Thus should have a Bpo just like every other t2 component.
I personally am not accepting new Cerb orders atm. as I cannot guarantee RAM availability.
The prices of the ships is going to soar as the already crippled supply has just had its legs broken to boot.
Regards Al Thorr
I Am in shape, ROUND is a shape |
Loktar illiat
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Posted - 2005.12.19 13:58:00 -
[32]
I have some on market for almost 2weeks now..... (inflated prices  ) but.. aint that what t2 is about ?
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Martinus Crimson
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Posted - 2005.12.19 14:06:00 -
[33]
Just a "we are aware of this and taking care of it" would be enough 
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Nuttin ^^ |
Ruffio Sepico
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Posted - 2005.12.19 14:11:00 -
[34]
Just had 20 Interceptors come out of production. (10 each of 2 different)
They do 95% damage to each ram tech. However, I got ONE damaged ram tech back with the ships  Been selling at quite low prices, but with these changes. hmm. bad bad ccp ;-)
Home: http://www.hidden-agenda.co.uk
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Xtra Bitter
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Posted - 2005.12.19 14:34:00 -
[35]
Thats the other part of the equation as a lot of producers dont seem to be aware RAM's would be conusmed then again why would they it wasnt in the patch notes.
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Summersnow
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Posted - 2005.12.19 14:50:00 -
[36]
Curious...
You all seem to think its well and cool to charge stupidly high prices for t2 ships and print free isk with no risk.
Something comes along that actually makes you reliant on the people who've had to pay those stupidly high prices and its chicken little time.
I like the idea of rams being limited, that would allow the entire t2 market to open up with prints for everyone and let the rams be the controlling factor as to who gets to build t2 instead of who won a lottery and got risk-free isk for the rest of there life.
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Kaaii
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Posted - 2005.12.19 14:52:00 -
[37]
 Originally by: Al Thorr
Edited by: Al Thorr on 19/12/2005 13:51:51
Signed, Signed Nay Thrice signed.
Yes the Ram destruction now points to the fact that RAMS are NO longer "TOOLS" but regular components. Thus should have a Bpo just like every other t2 component.
I personally am not accepting new Cerb orders atm. as I cannot guarantee RAM availability.
The prices of the ships is going to soar as the already crippled supply has just had its legs broken to boot.
Regards Al Thorr
Should CCP release "tool" BPOS, would this mean that T2 mfg drop the insane prices of T2 components/ships?
Price fixing ftw...
"..Id rather fall beside 10 lions, then stand with One thousand sheep.."
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Ruffio Sepico
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Posted - 2005.12.19 14:55:00 -
[38]
Originally by: Summersnow
Curious...
You all seem to think its well and cool to charge stupidly high prices for t2 ships and print free isk with no risk.
Something comes along that actually makes you reliant on the people who've had to pay those stupidly high prices and its chicken little time.
I like the idea of rams being limited, that would allow the entire t2 market to open up with prints for everyone and let the rams be the controlling factor as to who gets to build t2 instead of who won a lottery and got risk-free isk for the rest of there life.
Lack of RAM techs will only lead to higher prices because of less supply. Regardless of who will get "allowed" to build. Sure, those who are able to supply ram tech's can charge a lot for their goods, but that cost will only be transfered over to end consumer. The producer doesnt really care about it so long there is a supply, its the lack of supply that is the problem.
Home: http://www.hidden-agenda.co.uk
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Kahn Moquil
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Posted - 2005.12.19 14:59:00 -
[39]
There are more T2 items than just the hacs. Not all of them have insane profit margins. Having to somehow aquire new rams in stead of being able to repair them, adds hugely to the production cost of for instance small tech II guns. Expect prices to rise on those.
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The Cosmopolite
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Posted - 2005.12.19 15:00:00 -
[40]
Originally by: Xtra Bitter
Thats the other part of the equation as a lot of producers dont seem to be aware RAM's would be conusmed then again why would they it wasnt in the patch notes.
Which is a poor show as it was clearly pointed out to the devs in the game development forum during testing with people saying what the conseqences would be.
Like many others, I see the solution as multi-pronged:
1) Reduce RAMs and RDbs to a minimum of 10m3 (making transport of 1000s of them in indies viable).
2) Seed BPOs for player production of them (with the additional desirable consequence of going a step further into full player-driven manufacturing economy).
3) Maintain them as agent drops until player production picks up (and perhaps after that - I don't myself think agent drops always destroy player production but that's another argument for another day).
Additional points for the size reduction in particular are that it follows CCPs recent pattern of reducing certain modules and equipment in size for ready transport (for eg, drones and scan probes) and there is no factor affected by RAM and RDb size affected other than the amount that can be transported. It is a very simple change - they're not ammo, they're not used like drones, people just move them, store them and feed them into factories/labs.
Basically, CCP have to be criticised, constructively, on this issue. They've moved away from JIT (which I don't like but which I have accepted) with the infrastructure but they have not made changes to certain other parts of the process, such as the RAM/RDb availability and ease of handling, to fall into line with non-JIT manufacturing.
Not good.
Cosmo
Jericho Fraction |
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Michael Bolton
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Posted - 2005.12.19 15:06:00 -
[41]
Originally by: Summersnow
Curious...
You all seem to think its well and cool to charge stupidly high prices for t2 ships and print free isk with no risk.
Something comes along that actually makes you reliant on the people who've had to pay those stupidly high prices and its chicken little time.
I like the idea of rams being limited, that would allow the entire t2 market to open up with prints for everyone and let the rams be the controlling factor as to who gets to build t2 instead of who won a lottery and got risk-free isk for the rest of there life.
Stupid argument. If there arent enough RAM to build ships the price of them will go up and guess who pays the extra cost ? Thats right, the extra cost will get passed on to the consumers.
This is a serious problem, reduce RAM in size and release BPO for them if they must be involved in tech II production at all. Agent drop rates are not sufficient.
Quote:
I'm listening to Pavarotti and I'm thinking 'What the hell have I been doing with my voice all these years?! Why haven't I taken my voice as far as I can take it as an instrument?'
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Al Thorr
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Posted - 2005.12.19 16:12:00 -
[42]
Also a point to note , that with the probable seeding of more t2 ship bpos in the near future . ( the larger the ship the more RAMs they appear to need ) Then for all the complainers of now high prices are now , which imho is basically demand driven due to the long build times. Imagine the prices, if RAM scarcity raises its head.
Regards AL Thorr.
I Am in shape, ROUND is a shape |
Martinus Crimson
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Posted - 2005.12.19 17:00:00 -
[43]
too darn important .. *BUMP*
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Nuttin ^^ |
Khatred
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Posted - 2005.12.19 17:22:00 -
[44]
What was really scary for me was the quote from the patch notes: RAM's are returning as agent rewards. HELLO! Most R&D corporations were still giving RAM's as rewards pre-RMR. So I am like "ummm, whoever decided about RAMs being destroyed in production AND RAM's to be again agent rewards has NO ideea what's going on with RAM's"
I am not a dev BUT I am sure the following could have been done:
1. Search the database and see how many RAM's are on the server.
2. Do a quick calculation and see how many RAM's are needed monthly assuming 75% T2 BPOs are used
3. Try to simulate how many RAM's will be rewarded post-RMR monthly
4. See if there is a high chance that monthly RAM agent rewards will cover at least 75% of pre and post RMR T2 BPOs neccesary per month.
The truth I think it was like this:
-We can't keep RAMs as they work now with the next gen manufacturing
-**** it then, let them be destroyed.
-But RAM's are not given anymore by agents
-Really? Oh well, just write in the patch notes that RAMs will be added.
-Are they gonna be enough?
-Who cares?
_________________________________________
I win Eve, I am better than you, I know everything, you know nothing, I rock, you blow. |
Skyy
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Posted - 2005.12.19 17:33:00 -
[45]
/signed
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Leowen
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Posted - 2005.12.19 18:07:00 -
[46]
1350+ reads and 44 replies in one afternoon - I'm glad this topic is getting some attention. No response from CCP though... come on guys I know you are watching this board at the moment, even just a "We're looking into it and will come back to you..." would be better than silence.
The scary thing as noted by someone above is that only the most serious producers have so far become aware of this - most of EVE doesn't know this is a problem yet. Nor will most until T2 supply suddenly drops off a cliff...
Come on CCP-ites I know you're working your booties off, but this really needs some attention before it becomes a serious issue. A resolution to this now will save you a whole world of pain in a week or so...
Leo
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Spaceman
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Posted - 2005.12.19 18:08:00 -
[47]
*signed*
This is only going to get worse, and gradually is :(
space
'Eve, possibly as addictive as drink & drugs, only less understood, which could make it inherently more dangerous' |
PhD Drax
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Posted - 2005.12.19 18:24:00 -
[48]
I dont like this at all, yet again we have to fly around and have a price war.
I was so happy when agent drops was removed so the pos indistry could pickup to supply
for the needed tech II components. And now we are back to that ****.... 
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Riggwelter
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Posted - 2005.12.19 18:25:00 -
[49]
This issue was raised pre patch here and herealmost instantly after the patch when whats about to happen became apparent. We really do need a dev to comment or say something about this before we get an implosion.
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Orree
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Posted - 2005.12.19 18:31:00 -
[50]
Originally by: Cyclops43
It could just be that this is one of CCP's levers to LIMIT T2 production and this is intended by the game designers.
On another note, I've noticed after RMR that agents that never dropped RAM's before, now do, so maybe the amount has been upped. Wait a couple of weeks for things to settle down before starting to complain.....
Besides, if the dev's have chosen this method (and maybe more) to ensure that having a T2 starship BPO is not anymore a 'print your own money' machine, then a big 'CHEERS!' goes out for them.....
Cool. I'll take all my T2 mods off the market and keep them for myself and friends. It's far more important to me that I have them or that I can make sure my friends have them than any ISK I might make off of them.
I bet you'll find others who feel the same way.
If you think the apparent RAM shortage is a good thing for the T2 consumer, you're sadly mistaken.
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Rangars Uncle
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Posted - 2005.12.19 18:50:00 -
[51]
Hm,
one of the worst problems since the patch and it is ignored 
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Gavin Kineli
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Posted - 2005.12.19 18:57:00 -
[52]
There are TONS of RAMs everywhere.
I have too many, actually (Tens of thousands). I don't know what to do with them all.
It's not CCP's fault you guys aren't good at manufacturing and can't get them like other people can.
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Khatred
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Posted - 2005.12.19 19:03:00 -
[53]
Originally by: Gavin Kineli
There are TONS of RAMs everywhere.
I have too many, actually (Tens of thousands). I don't know what to do with them all.
It's not CCP's fault you guys aren't good at manufacturing and can't get them like other people can.
Oh noes, it's Gavin the all-knowing. For your information Mr. Kineli there are none or close to none Starship RAM's in Heimatar/Metropolis/The Citadel/Domain/Tash-Murkon/Lonetrek/Verge Vendor/Everyshore/Sinq Laison
However I am certain that the very crowded regions of Molden heath, Syndicate, Aridia, Kor-Azor, Devoid, Derelik and such have PLENTY of them.
Is it true indeed that since you produce only T2 Ammunition you have plenty (and plenty of access to) Ammunition RAM. That, I agree, plenty everywhere.
_________________________________________
I win Eve, I am better than you, I know everything, you know nothing, I rock, you blow. |
Riggwelter
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Posted - 2005.12.19 19:08:00 -
[54]
Originally by: Gavin Kineli
There are TONS of RAMs everywhere.
I have too many, actually (Tens of thousands). I don't know what to do with them all.
It's not CCP's fault you guys aren't good at manufacturing and can't get them like other people can.
Want to sell some of those tons you have 
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Captain Black
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Posted - 2005.12.19 19:18:00 -
[55]
it is simple as that.
NO RAM's
-> no T2 Production
-> build item prices go down
-> loads of posses are standing still
-> mineral prices go down - a lot
you guys kill the ISK ! in effect the ways to make isk wil change to hunting, no more investment into new business. Corps will "hort" ISK on the accounts ... no economy can grow this way. In Cuba it was the fuel, here it is RAMs ... in both ways we can't steer anything.
Please support all !!!
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Gavin Kineli
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Posted - 2005.12.19 19:24:00 -
[56]
Originally by: Khatred
Originally by: Gavin Kineli
There are TONS of RAMs everywhere.
I have too many, actually (Tens of thousands). I don't know what to do with them all.
It's not CCP's fault you guys aren't good at manufacturing and can't get them like other people can.
Oh noes, it's Gavin the all-knowing. For your information Mr. Kineli there are none or close to none Starship RAM's in Heimatar/Metropolis/The Citadel/Domain/Tash-Murkon/Lonetrek/Verge Vendor/Everyshore/Sinq Laison
However I am certain that the very crowded regions of Molden heath, Syndicate, Aridia, Kor-Azor, Devoid, Derelik and such have PLENTY of them.
Is it true indeed that since you produce only T2 Ammunition you have plenty (and plenty of access to) Ammunition RAM. That, I agree, plenty everywhere.
Man, I like yo Khatred, but you whine more than anybody else about the production industry which you spent so much time trying to break into.
If you can't handle it, don't be in it.
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Cvuos
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Posted - 2005.12.19 19:26:00 -
[57]
Put up sensible buy orders instead of comedy ones, I'll fill some.
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Winterblink
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Posted - 2005.12.19 19:29:00 -
[58]
Originally by: Summersnow
Curious...
You all seem to think its well and cool to charge stupidly high prices for t2 ships and print free isk with no risk.
Something comes along that actually makes you reliant on the people who've had to pay those stupidly high prices and its chicken little time.
I like the idea of rams being limited, that would allow the entire t2 market to open up with prints for everyone and let the rams be the controlling factor as to who gets to build t2 instead of who won a lottery and got risk-free isk for the rest of there life.
Building a tech2 ship takes more than just slapping some components on a tech1 hull and going voila! To construct the components, a POS needs to be used to refine moon minerals into the compounds used to make those components. Running a POS is not free, and thus that cost has to be passed down the line in some capacity.
It's not simple isk printing by any stretch. Is there some overblown pricing? Sure there is. But like it or not, they're specialty items that take an effort to produce. Tack on a reasonable profit to the builder and it's still going to be high. It's supply and demand that drives it up to what you call "stupidly high prices". The only way you can send a message to sellers that their price is too high is to not buy from them. Rest assured, not all builders are interested in gouging.
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Fester Addams
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Posted - 2005.12.19 19:31:00 -
[59]
Ok before going overboard can people allow a week or two to pass.
Remember here that ALL R.A.M. and R.Db. that currently are in existance came from mission bonuses and when the devs removed item bonuses and replaced then with isk it took a very long time for them to become exausted.
At present mission runners are in a bit of a spot, the new NPC types have wreacked havoc on the missions, I see experienced mission runners claiming that they have lost BS's in lev 3 missions.
Also the R.A.M. shortage is not something new, for months we have seen the supply of RAM drop, smart producers have stockpiled RAM for the simple reason everyone in the buisness that was not entirely blindsighted knew there was a shortage comming.
Sadly the devs let the RAM level slip too low and even foreseeing producers now have a problem but despite this I belive that once the supliers (mission runners) get on top of their missions the RAM levels will increase and all will go back to normality.
I ask you to wait for a few weeks as the devs need some time to tewak the drops of RAM's so that enough drop but it does not become useless junk bonuses (wich they were at one time).
As for players building them... why take this away from the mission runners, this will give them a way to get into the whole supply/demand role of EvE, they did have that when RAM and construction components only dropped in missions but as RAm were marginally interesting and components became manufacturable the mission runner occupation more or less became isolated from the rest of the game.
Let them be the suppliers of RAM and RDb's and in any case there is no logic in players being able to build RDb's.
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20. Is it true all pvpers have carebear alts?
Yes, of course. I have so much fun looking up who's alt is who's 
kieron
Community Manager,
EVE Online |
Michael Bolton
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Posted - 2005.12.19 19:33:00 -
[60]
This needs attention, and soon.
Quote:
I'm listening to Pavarotti and I'm thinking 'What the hell have I been doing with my voice all these years?! Why haven't I taken my voice as far as I can take it as an instrument?'
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