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Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 2 post(s) |
Leowen
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Posted - 2005.12.19 11:47:00 -
[1]
Please excuse me if this sounds a tad melodramatic - but I do think this situation warrants my growing panic levels!
With RMR, RAM's used in T2 production are consumed instead of damaged and returned. This is very soon (within one week) going to create a crisis in the T2 building industry - as there aren't enough RAMs in circulation to sustain production. An example... let's pick a common one that most people will be able to associate with - Assault Frigates.
An AF BP can produce about 23 ships a week. Each one built will use 4 RAM Starship Tech's, so 92 RAMs consumed in one week. That's quite a lot of RAM's... Now consider there are 8 types of AF, and also another 24 types (I think?) of T2 ship, all consuming a similar rate of RAM's. There are 8-20 BP's for each ship type, bringing the total to about 500 T2 ship BPO's. I calculate somewhere around 4000-5000 RAM Starship's wil be needed every week to sustain production.
According to dev comments on the forums, you have 're-introduced' RAMs as mission bonuses (bonii?). So I and some friends have been grinding missions for 2 days to get some more RAM's. The result? No Starship RAM's out of 80+ missions... in fact only 2 RAM bonuses for other RAM types for 12 units each time. Now maybe we were just unlucky, but I don't think so. We ran missions at stations where RAM buy orders have been most successful in the past so I know we were on the right agents. I just don't think they're dropping NEARLY enough.
CCP PWWWEASE sort this out urgently. Within a week T2 production will start to seize up as the universe runs dry of certain RAM's, and your shiny new T2 ship prints won't be much use in a RAM-less world. Oh and to anyone thinking 'Ha-ha, you T2 builders have some pain, excellent!!'... The whole EVE community stands to suffer from this - what do you think will happen to pricing when T2 ship production grinds to a halt? It won't be pretty.
Signatures below please to keep this on Page 1. CCP please respond I know you have a LOT of work on your hands at the mo, but I think you should resolve this now before it becomes a BIG problem generating a lot of community backlash in a week or so.
BTW despite a few concerns I have personally about RMR (production - aargh!!), you guys rock!  Some of you must have worked 80 hours+ last week - your commitment to EVE is incredible and very much appreciated.
Leo
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Amthrianius
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Posted - 2005.12.19 11:48:00 -
[2]
Edited by: Amthrianius on 19/12/2005 11:48:24
/signed
Just let them build the damn things like any other t2 component
or, just remove them entirely from t2
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sonofollo
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Posted - 2005.12.19 11:50:00 -
[3]
level 4 manufacturing agents low sec - my source and they are regular yehaba - imperial constructions aridia region
Combat agents also aridia region - sadana - ministry of war
Im guessing youre trying high sec R.A.M and D.db drops are much less often than those im getting in low sec. 1 out of evry 5 missions out there.
Solution well enough said. If u dont wanna come out at least come and buy my well stocked sell orders i have gone at reasonable prices
CCP please restore the recruitment channel |
Maltrox
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Posted - 2005.12.19 11:52:00 -
[4]
Signed.
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Seleene
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Posted - 2005.12.19 11:53:00 -
[5]
 Originally by: Amthrianius
/signed
Just let them build the damn things like any other t2 component
or, just remove them entirely from t2
Quoted for truth.
Everything else in T2 production is player mined/produced. Why are there no BPO's for RAMs? 
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The REAL Eve Political Map! |
Amthrianius
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Posted - 2005.12.19 11:54:00 -
[6]
Oh and for the love of god reduce the damn size of them now they are "eaten"
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sonofollo
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Posted - 2005.12.19 11:55:00 -
[7]
i will have lots for sale at reasonable prices if u want em come to aridia if not meh someone wil buy em
CCP please restore the recruitment channel |
Vex Seraphim
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Posted - 2005.12.19 12:03:00 -
[8]
Please ccp don't ignore this problem,
i don't want hacs at 200mil, come on,
1) get them back to being just damaged and
2) reduce the size.
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Thecle Vifargent
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Posted - 2005.12.19 12:06:00 -
[9]
RAM exists. I just got a bunch of 31 units armor/hull ram as bonus of a level 4 courrier mission.
Looks like devs heard you.
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Amthrianius
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Posted - 2005.12.19 12:08:00 -
[10]
Originally by: Thecle Vifargent
RAM exists. I just got a bunch of 31 units armor/hull ram as bonus of a level 4 courrier mission.
Looks like devs heard you.
31 is nothing tho really and people just refine them anyway instead of transporting as they have high nocx/iso i believe and are a ***** to transport. Especially in low sec 0.4 where they yield the most from.
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sonofollo
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Posted - 2005.12.19 12:08:00 -
[11]
thats what i said in my origianl post level 4 courier missions - if youre to lazy to do em come to yehaba and ill sell em to u around market regional ive got enough not to jack price up 3000% they start from 20,000 = 30,000 ISK for each one much less than the old 500,000 ISK each allowing cheaper prices
CCP please restore the recruitment channel |
Martinus Crimson
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Posted - 2005.12.19 12:10:00 -
[12]
/signed
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Nuttin ^^ |
sonofollo
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Posted - 2005.12.19 12:10:00 -
[13]
im in low sec and ... im selling them on market - hey i might just build a stockpile and let the orders build up im sure low sec t2 producers will make good use of em at cheaper prices then allow them to sell t2 stuff in empire at a bigger profit
CCP please restore the recruitment channel |
Xtra Bitter
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Posted - 2005.12.19 12:32:00 -
[14]
Signed
Reduce there size and could you explain who on the dev team thinks they can monitor and control supply of these better than the players and market supply and demand.
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Tharrn
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Posted - 2005.12.19 12:36:00 -
[15]
Originally by: sonofollo
im in low sec and ... im selling them on market - hey i might just build a stockpile and let the orders build up im sure low sec t2 producers will make good use of em at cheaper prices then allow them to sell t2 stuff in empire at a bigger profit
Yes, everyone knows by now. You have said it like four times.
Everything that *requires* agent whoring is bad as it doesn't encourage player interaction. Blueprints ftw.
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Seleene
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Posted - 2005.12.19 12:38:00 -
[16]
Originally by: Tharrn
Everything that *requires* agent whoring is bad as it doesn't encourage player interaction.
I agree 100%!! There needs to be more ways to obtain these things. NPC drops, let us build them, whatever.
And FFS, reduce the damn size!! 
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The REAL Eve Political Map! |
Gonada
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Posted - 2005.12.19 12:39:00 -
[17]
lol get out there and get your own?
lotsa ram floating out there, too bad you guys pay so damn little for it.
i myself am stockpiling it a bit, you want to charge out the ying for the ships? ill charge out the ying for parts.
-I don't necessarily agree with everything I say.-
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Traxio Nacho
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Posted - 2005.12.19 12:47:00 -
[18]
Originally by: Gonada
lol get out there and get your own?
lotsa ram floating out there, too bad you guys pay so damn little for it.
i myself am stockpiling it a bit, you want to charge out the ying for the ships? ill charge out the ying for parts.
Bit differcult when there isnt that much around.
Just before RMR I did a few missions and got quite afew RAM from my agent, now after RMR hasnt offered me any as a bonus!!!
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Xtra Bitter
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Posted - 2005.12.19 12:49:00 -
[19]
Originally by: Gonada
lol get out there and get your own?
lotsa ram floating out there, too bad you guys pay so damn little for it.
i myself am stockpiling it a bit, you want to charge out the ying for the ships? ill charge out the ying for parts.
I for a fact have despite spending the whole time since RMR trying to secure supplies. Difficult in itself when no one knows if there going to get any or what type. As for prices unless your starting to sell RAMs for stupid prices most ive seen so far was 1 million the price impact on tech 2 products is negligible compared to the losses from not having the BPO running at all.
Ultimatly though it wont be you that decides the price its the dev thats setting the level they appear from agent missions that sets it.
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Tharrn
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Posted - 2005.12.19 12:53:00 -
[20]
Not everyone is building HACs with a 700% profit margin. For frigs for example 1 million is already a hefty additional cost factor.
I am building Impels. It takes 10 to build one, which means the prices would go up from 40 to 50 million again OR (as people tend to be stupid and assume 'mined minerals or RAMs I have agent *****d for myself are free') the profit margin goes down to 'not worth bothering at all'.
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Tophereon
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Posted - 2005.12.19 12:57:00 -
[21]
Originally by: Gonada
lol get out there and get your own?
lotsa ram floating out there, too bad you guys pay so damn little for it.
i myself am stockpiling it a bit, you want to charge out the ying for the ships? ill charge out the ying for parts.
Haha it will only come back to you!!!
Anyway...
1. Make rams smaller
2. Make the unrefinable
3. Release more
Or as leowen says... were all in big trouble...
Toph. :(
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Seleene
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Posted - 2005.12.19 12:58:00 -
[22]
Originally by: Tharrn
Not everyone is building HACs with a 700% profit margin.
Actually, it's only about 450 - 500% on average. Not my fault the market is crazy!
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The REAL Eve Political Map! |
Jon Hawkes
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Posted - 2005.12.19 13:00:00 -
[23]
It does seem stupid that players who want to concentrate on manufacturing are forced into agent grinding just to obtain vital components.
Free production, refining and POS resouces site |
Leowen
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Posted - 2005.12.19 13:04:00 -
[24]
Hmmm some of you guys don't understand what I'm saying... look at the numbers in the OP again.... 5000 RAM per WEEK needed - and that's just Starship RAM's, one of the nine different types. If one agent runner doing missions every day in the low sec systems youre talking about can get say 90 RAM's, 10 of those can be expected to be Starship, meaning we need 500 people running L4 missions for manufacturing agents in low sec EVERY DAY!
My point is not that RAM's aren't dropping, it's that they are not dropping in the quantities required to sustain the T2 industry. If you think I'm wrong, wait and see what the T2 ship market looks like this weekend... I have already pulled most of my ships off of the market until it is clear what will happen to RAM's.
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Cyclops43
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Posted - 2005.12.19 13:21:00 -
[25]
It could just be that this is one of CCP's levers to LIMIT T2 production and this is intended by the game designers.
On another note, I've noticed after RMR that agents that never dropped RAM's before, now do, so maybe the amount has been upped. Wait a couple of weeks for things to settle down before starting to complain.....
Besides, if the dev's have chosen this method (and maybe more) to ensure that having a T2 starship BPO is not anymore a 'print your own money' machine, then a big 'CHEERS!' goes out for them.....
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Maya Rkell
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Posted - 2005.12.19 13:23:00 -
[26]
Edited by: Maya Rkell on 19/12/2005 13:23:42
5k seems low.
JF's T2 producer needs 600 a week.
And Cyclops43? Sure, but removing them from the market seems like a drastic step.
Warning: above post may contain traces of sarcasm.
"Corpse cannot be fitted onto ship. Only hardware modules can be fitted." |
Rodj Blake
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Posted - 2005.12.19 13:24:00 -
[27]
I think that it's maybe too early to comment on how often RAMs will drop from agents now, but I will say that if they're being used up by production then they need to be significantly reduced in size as moving them around can be a real pain.
Dolce et decorum est pro imperator mori |
Riggwelter
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Posted - 2005.12.19 13:25:00 -
[28]
Originally by: Cyclops43
Besides, if the dev's have chosen this method (and maybe more) to ensure that having a T2 starship BPO is not anymore a 'print your own money' machine, then a big 'CHEERS!' goes out for them.....
Ok simple econcomics the price of something is what someone is prepared to pay for it. The most significant factor in which is supply and demand. Demand is constantly getting bigger for tech 2 (more players) supply has just become severely limited.
Give you a clue what prices are going to do.
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Leowen
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Posted - 2005.12.19 13:30:00 -
[29]
Originally by: Maya Rkell
Edited by: Maya Rkell on 19/12/2005 13:23:42
5k seems low.
JF's T2 producer needs 600 a week.
Yeah sounds low to me too - I calc our needs to be about 600 a week also.
Hmmm 500 ship BPO's requiring average 80 RAMs per week - oops looks more like 40k needed 
I'll get a better calculator for next time, but my worries just got a lot bigger...
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Harisdrop
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Posted - 2005.12.19 13:34:00 -
[30]
Originally by: Seleene
Originally by: Tharrn
Everything that *requires* agent whoring is bad as it doesn't encourage player interaction.
I agree 100%!! There needs to be more ways to obtain these things. NPC drops, let us build them, whatever.
And FFS, reduce the damn size!!
Carebear.
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Whats funny is your heard it. |
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