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Paul Otichoda Electric Sun Associates 22	Posted - 2013.08.03 18:17:00 - [1] - Quote I've recently got a battleship with cruise missiles and tried out a level 4 mission. However I'm getting my arse kicked, they keep taking down my shields and I run out my capacitor. I also had to deal with some frigates but got a chunk of my drones shot up while trying to take them out. What am I doing wrong? Arbalest' Cruise Launcher x6 Large Shield Extender II x1 X-Large C5-L Emergency Shield Overload I x1 Kinetic Deflection Amplifier II x2 Shield Boost Amplifier I x2 Thermic Dissipation Amplifier II x1 Kinetic Deflection Amplifier II x 2 Ballistic Control System I x3 Capacitor Flux Coil I x2 Large Capacitor Control Circuit Ix3 Hobgoblin Ix 5 Hammerhead Ix4
Donbe Scurred University of Caille Gallente Federation 88	Posted - 2013.08.03 18:20:00 - [2] - Quote You're only two months old and already running lvl4s, without assistance/guidance. That is what you are doing wrong. Continue running level 3s and training your support skills. How are your support skills for cap and shields? Why is your corp not helping you? The general rule of thumb is that you should have 1000dps combined tank and gank. How are your stats?
Paul Otichoda Electric Sun Associates 22	Posted - 2013.08.03 19:18:00 - [3] - Quote My skills for shields are: Energy Grid Upgrades 3 Energy Management 3 Energy Systems Operation 3 Shield Emission Systems 2 Shield Management 3 Shield Operation 4 Shield Upgrades 4 Tactical shield manipulation 3 missiles: Cruiser missiles: 1 Missile Bombardment 4 Missile Projection 4 Rapid Launch 3 Target Navigation Prediction 3 Warhead Upgrades 3 what should I try to improve?
Donbe Scurred University of Caille Gallente Federation 88	Posted - 2013.08.03 19:25:00 - [4] - Quote All of them I would concentrate on the energy and shield skills first. Consider utilizing an MJD to gain range as a damage mitigation tactic.
stoicfaux 3041	Posted - 2013.08.03 19:27:00 - [5] - Quote Some level 4 missions can quickly become overwhelming even for experienced mission runners. Which mission are you having trouble on? Are you using eve-survival to know what damage resists to use and how to manage triggers. Get your weapon skills to at least IV asap. As for your fit, you can replace all your cap mods with a single Cap Booster. Google 'eve eft' or "eve pyfa" for fitting tools. Google 'eve evemon' for a skill planning tool. Ideally, you want to train towards something like this: http://wiki.eveonline.com/en/wiki/Raven_(Fitting)#Raven_a_la_Liang
Tobias Hareka Republic Military School Minmatar Republic 67	Posted - 2013.08.03 19:41:00 - [6] - Quote Shield Emission Systems doesn't matter. It's for shield transporters (Logistics). Get these as soon as possible: Energy Systems Operation 5 Energy Management 4 (go for 5 later) Shield Compensation 4 Tactical Shield Manipulation 4 (for T2 active hardeners) Cruise Missiles 4 Missile support skills to 4 (including Guided Missile Precision) Weapon upgrades 4 T2 drones! T1 drones have tank made of paper. Don't send drones to attack targets at long distance. Kill frigates with drones when they are orbiting you. As soon as NPCs switch to your drones recall them and wait before launching them again if needed. Don't keep your drones out if you don't need them.
Cipher Jones The Thomas Edwards Taco Tuesday All Stars 731	Posted - 2013.08.03 19:42:00 - [7] - Quote stoicfaux wrote: Some level 4 missions can quickly become overwhelming even for experienced mission runners. Which mission are you having trouble on? Are you using eve-survival to know what damage resists to use and how to manage triggers. Get your weapon skills to at least IV asap. As for your fit, you can replace all your cap mods with a single Cap Booster. Google 'eve eft' or "eve pyfa" for fitting tools. Google 'eve evemon' for a skill planning tool. Ideally, you want to train towards something like this: http://wiki.eveonline.com/en/wiki/Raven_(Fitting)#Raven_a_la_Liang What he said, except that at low SP the cap booster is a recipe for death IMHO. Use it, but not till you have 4's in shield and missiles. And forget the hammerheads. load 15 hobgoblins. Without augmentations and at level 1 hammerheads are garbage. Eve is Real
Paul Otichoda Electric Sun Associates 22	Posted - 2013.08.03 19:45:00 - [8] - Quote Cipher Jones wrote: stoicfaux wrote: Some level 4 missions can quickly become overwhelming even for experienced mission runners. Which mission are you having trouble on? Are you using eve-survival to know what damage resists to use and how to manage triggers. Get your weapon skills to at least IV asap. As for your fit, you can replace all your cap mods with a single Cap Booster. Google 'eve eft' or "eve pyfa" for fitting tools. Google 'eve evemon' for a skill planning tool. Ideally, you want to train towards something like this: http://wiki.eveonline.com/en/wiki/Raven_(Fitting)#Raven_a_la_Liang What he said, except that at low SP the cap booster is a recipe for death IMHO. Use it, but not till you have 4's in shield and missiles. And forget the hammerheads. load 15 hobgoblins. Without augmentations and at level 1 hammerheads are garbage. I generally run with shield extenders and simply tank damage. But people seem to suggest that you can't passive tank on a battleship.
Tobias Hareka Republic Military School Minmatar Republic 67	Posted - 2013.08.03 19:50:00 - [9] - Quote Paul Otichoda wrote: I generally run with shield extenders and simply tank damage. But people seem to suggest that you can't passive tank on a battleship. You can with Rattlesnake and Scorpion Navy Issue (to certain point, has a lot better active tank than Rattlesnake). But if you do passive tank these you're not going to do massive damage. Raven isn't good for passive tanking.
DSpite Culhach Corp 54 Curatores Veritatis Alliance 152	Posted - 2013.08.03 19:53:00 - [10] - Quote as a general guideline: * Install EveMon. * Import your Raven, import your toon * Compare the "all 5 skills" with yours, also Tech 2 the ship on a new fit and compare. I did exactly what you did, and running missions was harsh, especially when sometimes you cant even break tank on special ships. Eve is a massive numbers game, imho, in missions PvE, unless your at least doing 75% of an "all 5" you will struggle. Again, as a guideline. Even with a mid Drake fit, and patience, you can take a few hours and run an L4, its just painful. I suddenly woke up thinking I had a nightmare, then remembered I can't even fly Amarr Battleships. I add bits to this when I'm bored https://www.dropbox.com/s/foijsawsqolarom/EVE_Online.html
Paul Otichoda Electric Sun Associates 22	Posted - 2013.08.03 19:58:00 - [11] - Quote Tobias Hareka wrote: Paul Otichoda wrote: I generally run with shield extenders and simply tank damage. But people seem to suggest that you can't passive tank on a battleship. You can with Rattlesnake and Scorpion Navy Issue (to certain point, has a lot better active tank than Rattlesnake). But if you do passive tank these you're not going to do massive damage. Raven isn't good for passive tanking. thats why I'm trying to use this fitting which is based off the one on EVEuni but it doesn't appear to be working
Tobias Hareka Republic Military School Minmatar Republic 67	Posted - 2013.08.03 20:04:00 - [12] - Quote Paul Otichoda wrote: Tobias Hareka wrote: Paul Otichoda wrote: I generally run with shield extenders and simply tank damage. But people seem to suggest that you can't passive tank on a battleship. You can with Rattlesnake and Scorpion Navy Issue (to certain point, has a lot better active tank than Rattlesnake). But if you do passive tank these you're not going to do massive damage. Raven isn't good for passive tanking. thats why I'm trying to use this fitting which is based off the one on EVEuni but it doesn't appear to be working http://wiki.eveuniversity.org/Raven That one with Large Shield Extender is PvP fit. PvP fits don't work in PvE even with mixed in PvE fits. Also those are base on old Raven.
Ifly Uwalk Empire Tax Collection Agency 825	Posted - 2013.08.03 20:16:00 - [13] - Quote Donbe Scurred wrote: Why is your corp not helping you?
Garak n00biachi The Scope Gallente Federation 8	Posted - 2013.08.03 20:23:00 - [14] - Quote Use a MJD and 99% of the npc's will never ever hit you....
Klymer Hedion University Amarr Empire 348	Posted - 2013.08.03 20:23:00 - [15] - Quote I've looked through your post history and frankly, your rushing things a bit too much. That said, use Eveboard to post your character so we can take a look at your full skill set. I'll reserve giving further advice until then, even though you say you have cruise missile at 1 which is big giant red flag as far as flying a Raven is concerned.
Paul Otichoda Electric Sun Associates 22	Posted - 2013.08.03 20:37:00 - [16] - Quote Klymer wrote: I've looked through your post history and frankly, your rushing things a bit too much. That said, use Eveboard to post your character so we can take a look at your full skill set. I'll reserve giving further advice until then, even though you say you have cruise missile at 1 which is big giant red flag as far as flying a Raven is concerned. http://eveboard.com/pilot/Paul_Otichoda The reason I'm rushing for level 4 missions because I'm really looking at that 40m an hour.
Tobias Hareka Republic Military School Minmatar Republic 67	Posted - 2013.08.03 20:51:00 - [17] - Quote I still remember that it took a lot of time for me to start soloing level 4s. Especially after losing my first battleship. I went back to level 3s and said to everyone "I will never do level 4s again.". Did level 3s in my trusty battlecruiser for 4 months. Sometimes helped other in level 4 by shooting small stuff they couldn't hit very well.
stoicfaux 3041	Posted - 2013.08.03 21:55:00 - [18] - Quote Paul Otichoda wrote: http://eveboard.com/pilot/Paul_Otichoda Guide Missile Precision, that's really important for missiles.
Zaxix Long Jump. 185	Posted - 2013.08.03 22:35:00 - [19] - Quote It looks like you're just underskilled for the support skillls and DPS augmentation skills that you need for a Raven. The energy/capacitor skills are some of the most important skills you'll ever train. You should get those as high as you can, as quickly as you can. Then shield skills. Then refine your missile skills. It looks like you haven't remapped yet, so once you get EVEmon going, you can map the ideal path to get all that done in the shortest time. You'd probably get better results ISK-wise by using a drake and running L3s. With your current skills, the L4s probably take you forever, even when you are able to finish them. You'll get more ISK by running missions in less time if you drop down a level. Also, since you've fit a long range cruise setup on your Raven, it's critical that you enter every mission at range (when possible) or burn away from the NPCs to gain range once you land. Good luck! *Prodigal Frog*
Ambusher Ituin Roughneck Raiders 2	Posted - 2013.08.04 03:12:00 - [20] - Quote I ran a Caldari Navy Raven with T1 cruise missiles and a T2 tank, so I know what you're going through. All the advice above is pertinent and excellent. Here are some specific things to think about: You'll not achieve 40m per hour until your tank and gank are much better. I often had to warp out of missions to repair shields or rebuild cap and right now you must have to do that 2 or 3 times a mission routinely. There's no ISK made during those intervals. Once your skills are at functional levels, your tank can consist of an X-large shield booster, a shield boost amplifier, mission-specific hardeners, and adaptive invuls. Your drone skills need work, including Drone V. Use only light scout drones on the frigs. Hammerheads, Valkyries, etc. are too slow and will get taken out until your skills are better. Get to Security Connections III before running another mission. Security Connection levels contribute to better missions and better rewards for those missions. You need to do this, even if you step back to running L3 missions. I think it's awesome that you're trying L4 missions so soon. The lack of immediate success just indicates that you need the patience to build your skill set.
Merila Ishkari The Scope Gallente Federation 0	Posted - 2013.08.04 08:22:00 - [21] - Quote Paul Otichoda wrote: I've recently got a battleship with cruise missiles and tried out a level 4 mission. However I'm getting my arse kicked, they keep taking down my shields and I run out my capacitor. I also had to deal with some frigates but got a chunk of my drones shot up while trying to take them out. What am I doing wrong? Arbalest' Cruise Launcher x6 Large Shield Extender II x1 X-Large C5-L Emergency Shield Overload I x1 Kinetic Deflection Amplifier II x2 Shield Boost Amplifier I x2 Thermic Dissipation Amplifier II x1 Kinetic Deflection Amplifier II x 2 Ballistic Control System I x3 Capacitor Flux Coil I x2 Large Capacitor Control Circuit Ix3 Hobgoblin Ix 5 Hammerhead Ix4 Try Arbalest' Cruise Launcher x6 X-Large C5-L Emergency Shield Overload I x1 EM / Thermal or Kinetic / Explosive x 2 active hardeners < important, u have to look the mission from google and see what kinda dmg they do the most and fit those hardeners ! Shield Boost Amplifier I x1 Cap recharger x2 Capacitor flux coil x4 Damage control x1 Large Capacitor Control Circuit Ix3 But u have to have good enough engineering skills so u are stable. Shield extenders are BIG no go !
Klymer Hedion University Amarr Empire 348	Posted - 2013.08.04 09:13:00 - [22] - Quote WHY U NO HAVE Weapon Upgrades IV? Seriously, T2 Ballistic Controls on a Raven are not an option they are MANDATORY Yes they are that important. Stop training whatever it is your training right now and add weapon upgrades IV to your queue, then come back and read the rest of this post. stoicfaux wrote: Paul Otichoda wrote: http://eveboard.com/pilot/Paul_Otichoda Guide Missile Precision, that's really important for missiles. A simple like isn't enough to stress the above, the skill makes a huge difference in helping missiles apply their damage to small targets. Finish off Drones V so you can field a full flight of them and open up access to Drone Interfacing, it increases their damage by 20% per level which greatly increases their ability to kill frigs. Take it to 3 initially as 4 is several days and you would be better served using that time for other skills. Combat Drone Operation is another one you want to 4 as time permits for the 5% damage increase it gives. Once those are out of the way get Scout Drone Interfacing V to open up access to T2 drones. Drone Durability and Sharpshooting will make them more survivable and better at hitting fast moving frigates. The skills that directly effect the Ravens dps are: Caldari Battleship: 5% Rate of Fire per level hull bonus Cruise Missiles: 5% damage increase per level Rapid Launch: 3% rate of fire per level Warhead Upgrades: 2% damage per level The skills that help with damage application are: Guided Missile Precision: 5% reduction in missile explosion radius Target Navigation Prediction: 10% decrease per level in factor of target's velocity for all missiles. Skills that effect missile range are: Missile Projection: 10% missile velocity Caldari Battleship: 10% missile velocity hull bonus Missile Bombardment: 10% flight time note the missile velocity bonus skills are preferred as they mean damage is applied sooner You should have the damage group skills at IV and then start training Cruise Missile V to open up T2 launchers. Download EVEmon and add the skills to a plan and sort them by training time, start with the shortest ones first so you get the benefits quicker. Once you have Cruise Missile Specialization at IV I would suggest Target Navigation Prediction V and Guided Missile Precision V. Also take a look at the missile Hardwires, slot 8 and 9 specifically as they improve GMP and TNP. Use the most expensive ones your willing to lose. Faction missiles are also a good idea as they provide a quick but not exactly cheap boost to damage, save them for knocking down BS and BC in a hurry to cut incoming dps. Remember gank is tank. As for your survivability, I can't stress enough what others have suggested. Use EVE Survival to know what your up against. Tailor your tank according to the rats you'll be facing and watch those triggers. The Raven getting another mid slot with the last round of rebalancing means you can over tank it rather easily now, here's a prime example that "should" fit with the skills you have. [Raven, Brickshithouse] Ballistic Control System II Ballistic Control System II Ballistic Control System II Ballistic Control System II Internal Force Field Array I X-Large C5-L Emergency Shield Overload I 'Copasetic' Particle Field Acceleration 'Copasetic' Particle Field Acceleration Rat Specific Resist Rat Specific Resist Rat Specific Resist Heavy Electrochemical Capacitor Booster I, Cap Booster 800 'Arbalest' Cruise Launcher I 'Arbalest' Cruise Launcher I 'Arbalest' Cruise Launcher I 'Arbalest' Cruise Launcher I 'Arbalest' Cruise Launcher I 'Arbalest' Cruise Launcher I Large Warhead Rigor Catalyst I Large Warhead Rigor Catalyst I Large Warhead Rigor Catalyst I Goblins and Hammerhead drones unless your up against Angels, use Warriors and Valkyries in that case. T1 ammo for cruiser and below and faction ammo for everything above. The main goal with the fit is to be able to stay in the mission longer killing stuff and making isk rather than warp out. Since your dps skills are low you need to compensate for the time being by overtanking the ship. The Damage Control is there not only for the small shield resist it provides, but also the armor and hull bonuses in case you get overwhelmed. The faction ammo will cut into your bottom line a bit but the only thing that will solve that problem is time spent training. Readjust the fit with an Afterburner if EVE Survival says there's gate travel in the mission. You'll have to drop one of the boost amps and probably swap the DC for a Co Processor so be mindful of what EVE Survival says about what your jumping into in the next room and be ready with faction ammo loaded just in case. If you do have trouble with the fit consider getting a Genolution Core set as they'll increase CPU and PG along with a couple other stats as well as increasing Intelligence and Perception attribute by 3 so you train faster. Let me address the Micro Jump Drive issue, I know a lot of people like to say use them to make missions easy mode. I agree they can do just that. BUT For missile boats they actually end up costing you time due to missile travel. I used a T2 CM Raven in null for a while to clear anoms, it had most of the tank replaced with multiple scripted SeBo's and a Signal Amp in the spare low. I ended up switching to an Oracle with T1 Tachyons and T1 crystals that made me more isk/hr with fewer skills simply because I wasn't waiting around for missiles to travel +100km. Oh and lets not forget the hassle of counting volleys and wasting a lot of ammo if you don't. So yeah, for turret or done boats which deal instant damage MJD's can be great, but for missile boats they suck.
Tixx Enaka State War Academy Caldari State 0	Posted - 2013.08.04 20:12:00 - [23] - Quote Hey fellow new pilot. Just tried to upload my char info but it's showing all 0's. Disregard the porttrait, it's random until I get to it. Anyways, your skills are too low. I'm doing lvl 2's & my gunnery skills are 5's and 4's (AWU 4 btw) with supports barely enough to get me certain modules. Remapping soon and will be moving to 3's. Point is, we are close in SP and I'm still flying a destroyer. Cautious yes but the fact remains, you are stretching too far too fast. You want the ISK I get it, but will set yourself back a bunch if you lose a BS. Get those skills up. Be savy with remaps. We get free a one!
Cage Man 247	Posted - 2013.08.04 20:45:00 - [24] - Quote Paul Otichoda wrote: I've recently got a battleship with cruise missiles and tried out a level 4 mission. However I'm getting my arse kicked, they keep taking down my shields and I run out my capacitor. I also had to deal with some frigates but got a chunk of my drones shot up while trying to take them out. What am I doing wrong? Arbalest' Cruise Launcher x6 Large Shield Extender II x1 X-Large C5-L Emergency Shield Overload I x1 Kinetic Deflection Amplifier II x2 Shield Boost Amplifier I x2 Thermic Dissipation Amplifier II x1 Kinetic Deflection Amplifier II x 2 Ballistic Control System I x3 Capacitor Flux Coil I x2 Large Capacitor Control Circuit Ix3 Hobgoblin Ix 5 Hammerhead Ix4 I don't have HQ at work, but I would suggest you firstly switch the amps for fields. Always tank mission specific and read the survivals guides. Medium drones are a waste, fill up with hobs, or if you doing angel missions use warriors. Get T2 drones ASAP and get drone interfacing and other skills up. Light drones will save a mission runner when scrammed. Get these before T2 launchers. It may also be worth adding a Damage Control till you get used to running missions. Drop the extender for another tank mod, maybe even an invuln, depending on stacking, just check in HQ which works best. Get T2 BCS's, they quick to train. How long does your cap last with this fit? I will play with some fits and post them if I remember, but as suggested Laurang's is a good fit to use. The thick plottens...
Paul Otichoda Electric Sun Associates 22	Posted - 2013.08.04 20:50:00 - [25] - Quote Cage Man wrote: How long does your cap last with this fit? I will play with some fits and post them if I remember, but as suggested Laurang's is a good fit to use. About 1.30 minutes. You supposed to pulse the shield boaster but my shield decays so quickly that I have to turn it on all the time until I run out of capacitor. Then I have to warp out.
Cage Man 247	Posted - 2013.08.04 22:18:00 - [26] - Quote Paul Otichoda wrote: Cage Man wrote: How long does your cap last with this fit? I will play with some fits and post them if I remember, but as suggested Laurang's is a good fit to use. About 1.30 minutes. You supposed to pulse the shield boaster but my shield decays so quickly that I have to turn it on all the time until I run out of capacitor. Then I have to warp out. It really needs a cap booster, then you can get rid of all the other cap mods, but I remember I really battling with using it in the beginning. You can always go and practice on the test servers. Best it to fly with someone your first few times out. If you don't have someone to help out join the "helpmymission" in game chat, lots of helpful pilots there who will be willing to come out and help. The thick plottens...
Orlacc 366	Posted - 2013.08.04 23:43:00 - [27] - Quote Paul Otichoda wrote: Klymer wrote: I've looked through your post history and frankly, your rushing things a bit too much. That said, use Eveboard to post your character so we can take a look at your full skill set. I'll reserve giving further advice until then, even though you say you have cruise missile at 1 which is big giant red flag as far as flying a Raven is concerned. http://eveboard.com/pilot/Paul_Otichoda The reason I'm rushing for level 4 missions because I'm really looking at that 40m an hour. With your current skills 10mil would be a stretch.....its about gank. "Measure Twice, Cut Once."
Aurette 962348 Corporation 4	Posted - 2013.08.05 05:17:00 - [28] - Quote My strategy to make the MJD work is to fit a Sensor Booster (have targeting range script in cargo hold but not loaded) Avoid missions versus Gurista's when you can, because they hit you at any range, and jam... Damping is less of a problem with this module. No need for shield extenders if you are a sniper that will use range and speed tank to avoid being shot as much. Generally use all rig/module slots that boost your damage output. I do fit an active shield boost, for comfort. You might want a webifier for frigates but scram/web are not such an issue if you have MJD. You can use MJD once you are webbed and scrammed, however if they apply the debuff while you are engaging the drive they may tackle you. Hence use it ONCE you are tackled and running out of shield boost. 1) Jump into mission deal damage - kill highest dps enemy ships that are not triggers 2) If webbed and scrammed and low shields.. THEN use the MJD .. pop off 100km 3) If you can't target the foe now then turn of Signal booster or Signal Booster II, if you want more range pop the script in. Don't run with the script when things are in range. The range increase lowers locking speed... 4) Speed tank by driving away, transverse or at them if few remain. Kill them all. If you do two 100km jumps away you can do a small 200km warp back without needing the MJD timer to reset If there are a few rooms I try to be 100km or 200km from the gate for an easy jump or hop once the room is clear. Some mission like Worlds Collide I will use the MJD as soon as I get through a gate... others I will keep it up my sleeve in case I'm tackled and battered.
ExcalibursTemplar Citadel Enterprises 4	Posted - 2013.08.05 10:04:00 - [29] - Quote Paul Otichoda wrote: My skills for shields are: Energy Grid Upgrades 3 Energy Management 3 Energy Systems Operation 3 Shield Emission Systems 2 Shield Management 3 Shield Operation 4 Shield Upgrades 4 Tactical shield manipulation 3 missiles: Cruiser missiles: 1 Missile Bombardment 4 Missile Projection 4 Rapid Launch 3 Target Navigation Prediction 3 Warhead Upgrades 3 what should I try to improve? Everything As for fits you could try this. [Raven, Noob Raven] 6x 'Arbalest' Cruise Launcher I (Inferno Cruise Missile) Heavy Diminishing Power System Drain I Experimental 100MN Afterburner I 2x Adaptive Invulnerability Field II EM Ward Field II 'Copasetic' Particle Field Acceleration X-Large Ancillary Shield Booster (Cap Booster 400) Phased Weapon Navigation Array Generation Extron Damage Control II 3x Ballistic Control System II Photonic CPU Enhancer I Large Anti-Thermal Screen Reinforcer I 2x Large Warhead Rigor Catalyst I 5x Hobgoblin II 10x Hobgoblin II 30x Cap Booster 400 2000x Inferno Cruise Missile 1000x Caldari Navy Inferno Cruise Missile Definitely use eve survival to guide you through missions and only aggro one group of npc at a time. http://eve-survival.org/wikka.php?wakka=MissionReports Use the standard missiles to kill everything but elite frigs, on them use the Caldari Navy missiles as they are the most dangerous thing in a mission and need killing as soon as possible to make sure you can warp out. The only time you shouldn't kill them straight away is if they are a trigger for more aggro from another group of NPC or a reinforcement wave (see eve survival). Also once you've got a bit of cash as soon as you can buy some Caldari navy or Dread Gurista Ballistic control systems(which ever is cheapest). As they will reduce the amount of CPU you use dramatically allowing you to drop the CPU mod (if you needed to use it in the first place) for another BCS. They also have the added bonus of giving you a nice increase to your DPS (damage per second) which you will want.
Tobias Hareka Republic Military School Minmatar Republic 68	Posted - 2013.08.05 10:51:00 - [30] - Quote ExcalibursTemplar wrote: [Raven, Noob Raven] 6x 'Arbalest' Cruise Launcher I (Inferno Cruise Missile) Heavy Diminishing Power System Drain I Experimental 100MN Afterburner I 2x Adaptive Invulnerability Field II EM Ward Field II 'Copasetic' Particle Field Acceleration X-Large Ancillary Shield Booster (Cap Booster 400) Phased Weapon Navigation Array Generation Extron Damage Control II 3x Ballistic Control System II Photonic CPU Enhancer I Large Anti-Thermal Screen Reinforcer I 2x Large Warhead Rigor Catalyst I 5x Hobgoblin II 10x Hobgoblin II 30x Cap Booster 400 2000x Inferno Cruise Missile 1000x Caldari Navy Inferno Cruise Missile That's a very bad fit even for experienced mission runner. Problems: - omni tank - ASB probably works as long as you have cap boosters in it but when you have to reload it you're a sitting duck.
Myriad Blaze 60	Posted - 2013.08.05 11:52:00 - [31] - Quote Klymer wrote: WHY U NO HAVE Weapon Upgrades IV? ---snip--- [Raven, Brickshithouse] Ballistic Control System II Ballistic Control System II Ballistic Control System II Ballistic Control System II Internal Force Field Array I X-Large C5-L Emergency Shield Overload I 'Copasetic' Particle Field Acceleration 'Copasetic' Particle Field Acceleration **Rat Specific Resist Rat Specific Resist Rat Specific Resist** Heavy Electrochemical Capacitor Booster I, Cap Booster 800 'Arbalest' Cruise Launcher I 'Arbalest' Cruise Launcher I 'Arbalest' Cruise Launcher I 'Arbalest' Cruise Launcher I 'Arbalest' Cruise Launcher I 'Arbalest' Cruise Launcher I Large Warhead Rigor Catalyst I Large Warhead Rigor Catalyst I Large Warhead Rigor Catalyst I Goblins and Hammerhead drones unless your up against Angels, use Warriors and Valkyries in that case. T1 ammo for cruiser and below and faction ammo for everything above. ---snip--- There are several good replies in this thread, but this is the best imho (I truncated it, but it's worth it to scroll back and reread it). And the fit is good, too. Plus you can easily upgrade it when you have better skills (i.e. swap Internal Force Field Array I with DCU II , 'Arbalest' Cruise Launcher I with T2 Cruise Launcer) and/or more isk (i.e. swap BCS II with CN BCS, swap shield booster with a deadspace shield booster - swap Raven with CNR ). But there is one thing that was often mentioned in this thread that I disagree with. Several people suggested to train up drones asap. My advice is don't. You should be able to use Hobgoblin Is, but it's not neccessary to be able to use the T2 variant. It is much more important for you to train up your fitting, shield and missile skills. Besides, it's not very cost efficient to use Hobgoblin IIs (Jita price for Hobgoblin II is around 400k; for Hobgoblin I it's roughly 6k). You will lose some drones now and then (Damsel in Distress: be distracted at the wrong moment and poof .... 5 drones are gone). Even though Hobgoblin Is are slower than the T2 variant, they do the job and you won't notice the difference much. I wouldn't recommend using Hobgoblin IIs at all (for L4 PvE in a Raven or CNR).
Frostys Virpio Lame Corp Name 609	Posted - 2013.08.05 12:54:00 - [32] - Quote Paul Otichoda wrote: Klymer wrote: I've looked through your post history and frankly, your rushing things a bit too much. That said, use Eveboard to post your character so we can take a look at your full skill set. I'll reserve giving further advice until then, even though you say you have cruise missile at 1 which is big giant red flag as far as flying a Raven is concerned. http://eveboard.com/pilot/Paul_Otichoda The reason I'm rushing for level 4 missions because I'm really looking at that 40m an hour. Thinking like that is a great way of losing a battleship. It only take 1 frig to take you down wich is why everybody is telling you to get your support skills higher. Drones are life savers if you ever get pointed. Lot of people think going from lvl 3 to lvl 4 only require to sit in a battleship but it's not the case. To have any efficiency in lvl4 you need the BS and the assorted skills leveled so your shiny new BS does not end in a glorious fireball.
Frostys Virpio Lame Corp Name 610	Posted - 2013.08.05 13:06:00 - [33] - Quote Myriad Blaze wrote: But there is one thing that was often mentioned in this thread that I disagree with. Several people suggested to train up drones asap. My advice is don't. You should be able to use Hobgoblin Is, but it's not neccessary to be able to use the T2 variant. It is much more important for you to train up your fitting, shield and missile skills. Besides, it's not very cost efficient to use Hobgoblin IIs (Jita price for Hobgoblin II is around 400k; for Hobgoblin I it's roughly 6k). You will lose some drones now and then (Damsel in Distress: be distracted at the wrong moment and poof .... 5 drones are gone). Even though Hobgoblin Is are slower than the T2 variant, they do the job and you won't notice the difference much. I wouldn't recommend using Hobgoblin IIs at all (for L4 PvE in a Raven or CNR). One of the reason we tell him to train drones to V is so he can field 5 to deal with frigs too. T2 cost more and can be passed over for some time but dealing with some elite frigs with 3 T1 drones will mean he's webbed/pointed for a long ass time. Drone to V and drone interfacing to II will give a decent boost to his drones damage dealing potential so he can at some point clear those pesky frigs. Slowboating at 12m/s while webbed is a great way to take even more damage.
ExcalibursTemplar Citadel Enterprises 4	Posted - 2013.08.05 13:34:00 - [34] - Quote Tobias Hareka wrote: ExcalibursTemplar wrote: [Raven, Noob Raven] 6x 'Arbalest' Cruise Launcher I (Inferno Cruise Missile) Heavy Diminishing Power System Drain I Experimental 100MN Afterburner I 2x Adaptive Invulnerability Field II EM Ward Field II 'Copasetic' Particle Field Acceleration X-Large Ancillary Shield Booster (Cap Booster 400) Phased Weapon Navigation Array Generation Extron Damage Control II 3x Ballistic Control System II Photonic CPU Enhancer I Large Anti-Thermal Screen Reinforcer I 2x Large Warhead Rigor Catalyst I 5x Hobgoblin II 10x Hobgoblin II 30x Cap Booster 400 2000x Inferno Cruise Missile 1000x Caldari Navy Inferno Cruise Missile That's a very bad fit even for experienced mission runner. Problems: - omni tank - ASB probably works as long as you have cap boosters in it but when you have to reload it you're a sitting duck. I've ran thousands upon thousands of missions with an omni tank and never had a problem. The DPS from npc in L4 mission isn't really that bad. If you handle the aggro carefully and only aggro one group of npc at a time. That or have a crap tonne of dps yourself in which case you kill everything that fast your tank matters very little.
Frostys Virpio Lame Corp Name 610	Posted - 2013.08.05 13:50:00 - [35] - Quote ExcalibursTemplar wrote: Tobias Hareka wrote: ExcalibursTemplar wrote: [Raven, Noob Raven] 6x 'Arbalest' Cruise Launcher I (Inferno Cruise Missile) Heavy Diminishing Power System Drain I Experimental 100MN Afterburner I 2x Adaptive Invulnerability Field II EM Ward Field II 'Copasetic' Particle Field Acceleration X-Large Ancillary Shield Booster (Cap Booster 400) Phased Weapon Navigation Array Generation Extron Damage Control II 3x Ballistic Control System II Photonic CPU Enhancer I Large Anti-Thermal Screen Reinforcer I 2x Large Warhead Rigor Catalyst I 5x Hobgoblin II 10x Hobgoblin II 30x Cap Booster 400 2000x Inferno Cruise Missile 1000x Caldari Navy Inferno Cruise Missile That's a very bad fit even for experienced mission runner. Problems: - omni tank - ASB probably works as long as you have cap boosters in it but when you have to reload it you're a sitting duck. I've ran thousands upon thousands of missions with an omni tank and never had a problem. The DPS from npc in L4 mission isn't really that bad. If you handle the aggro carefully and only aggro one group of npc at a time. That or have a crap tonne of dps yourself in which case you kill everything that fast your tank matters very little. SUggesting a fit that rely on aggro amnagement to a new mission runner not really up to par in skill for lvl4 is not the ebst idea tho. Messing up a trigger with a fit like that at low skill can be the difference between salvaging the wrecks of rats a few minutes later and trying to ninja loot your own wreck a few minute alter to get back part of your fitted mods. It's easy to shoot the wrong ship when you don't know wich one will spawn 6 more BCs.
Marc Callan Interstellar Steel Templis Dragonaors 253	Posted - 2013.08.05 14:21:00 - [36] - Quote The general rule when you're learning is to overdo it on the tank until you're comfortable with damage mitigation, then swap out tank modules for offensive modules to improve your firepower. It's less profitable for a given stretch of time, initially, but as you learn, get used to the mechanics of mission running, and feel ready to take more risks, you'll go through the missions more quickly and earn more ISK as you go. And one more reason to train Drones to V even if you're going to stick with T1 drones: Drones V unlocks Drone Interfacing, which gives you a 20%-per-level increase in the firepower of any drones you deploy. It's potentially one of the highest-powered buffs in the entire skill tree. "Nevertheless a prince ought to inspire fear in such a way that, if he does not win love, he avoids hatred..." - Niccolo Machiavelli-á
ExcalibursTemplar Citadel Enterprises 4	Posted - 2013.08.05 16:07:00 - [37] - Quote Frostys Virpio wrote: ExcalibursTemplar wrote: Tobias Hareka wrote: ExcalibursTemplar wrote: [Raven, Noob Raven] 6x 'Arbalest' Cruise Launcher I (Inferno Cruise Missile) Heavy Diminishing Power System Drain I Experimental 100MN Afterburner I 2x Adaptive Invulnerability Field II EM Ward Field II 'Copasetic' Particle Field Acceleration X-Large Ancillary Shield Booster (Cap Booster 400) Phased Weapon Navigation Array Generation Extron Damage Control II 3x Ballistic Control System II Photonic CPU Enhancer I Large Anti-Thermal Screen Reinforcer I 2x Large Warhead Rigor Catalyst I 5x Hobgoblin II 10x Hobgoblin II 30x Cap Booster 400 2000x Inferno Cruise Missile 1000x Caldari Navy Inferno Cruise Missile That's a very bad fit even for experienced mission runner. Problems: - omni tank - ASB probably works as long as you have cap boosters in it but when you have to reload it you're a sitting duck. I've ran thousands upon thousands of missions with an omni tank and never had a problem. The DPS from npc in L4 mission isn't really that bad. If you handle the aggro carefully and only aggro one group of npc at a time. That or have a crap tonne of dps yourself in which case you kill everything that fast your tank matters very little. SUggesting a fit that rely on aggro amnagement to a new mission runner not really up to par in skill for lvl4 is not the ebst idea tho. Messing up a trigger with a fit like that at low skill can be the difference between salvaging the wrecks of rats a few minutes later and trying to ninja loot your own wreck a few minute alter to get back part of your fitted mods. It's easy to shoot the wrong ship when you don't know wich one will spawn 6 more BCs. Frostys Virpio with Paul Otichoda skills if he doesn't learn to handle the aggro in the right way. Not matter what the ship he's flying or the moduals he fit to his ship he will lose it sooner rather than latter.
Myriad Blaze 60	Posted - 2013.08.05 16:29:00 - [38] - Quote Frostys Virpio wrote: Myriad Blaze wrote: But there is one thing that was often mentioned in this thread that I disagree with. Several people suggested to train up drones asap. My advice is don't. You should be able to use Hobgoblin Is, but it's not neccessary to be able to use the T2 variant. It is much more important for you to train up your fitting, shield and missile skills. Besides, it's not very cost efficient to use Hobgoblin IIs (Jita price for Hobgoblin II is around 400k; for Hobgoblin I it's roughly 6k). You will lose some drones now and then (Damsel in Distress: be distracted at the wrong moment and poof .... 5 drones are gone). Even though Hobgoblin Is are slower than the T2 variant, they do the job and you won't notice the difference much. I wouldn't recommend using Hobgoblin IIs at all (for L4 PvE in a Raven or CNR). One of the reason we tell him to train drones to V is so he can field 5 to deal with frigs too. T2 cost more and can be passed over for some time but dealing with some elite frigs with 3 T1 drones will mean he's webbed/pointed for a long ass time. Drone to V and drone interfacing to II will give a decent boost to his drones damage dealing potential so he can at some point clear those pesky frigs. Slowboating at 12m/s while webbed is a great way to take even more damage. I fully agree with being able to field 5 drones ... I just don't agree with the people who said that he should get into T2 drones asap. Maybe I wasn't clear enough, sorry. Edit: Rereading the thread I realized that only 2 persons mentionend T2 drones before I posted. Somehow it felt like there were more.
Cage Man 247	Posted - 2013.08.05 19:43:00 - [39] - Quote Myriad Blaze wrote: But there is one thing that was often mentioned in this thread that I disagree with. Several people suggested to train up drones asap. My advice is don't. You should be able to use Hobgoblin Is, but it's not neccessary to be able to use the T2 variant. It is much more important for you to train up your fitting, shield and missile skills. Besides, it's not very cost efficient to use Hobgoblin IIs (Jita price for Hobgoblin II is around 400k; for Hobgoblin I it's roughly 6k). You will lose some drones now and then (Damsel in Distress: be distracted at the wrong moment and poof .... 5 drones are gone). Even though Hobgoblin Is are slower than the T2 variant, they do the job and you won't notice the difference much. I wouldn't recommend using Hobgoblin IIs at all (for L4 PvE in a Raven or CNR). Clearly you should be asking for advice and not giving it. Like every other module in EVE the T2 version out classes the T1 version. In the case of the drones, better damage, better speed, better defense hit-points, better tracking, to name just a few. What this means they will hit harder and live longer. If you are loosing drones due to NPC aggro, you are also doing it wrong. I have done a lot of thing in eve, WH's, Incursions, etc and the ONLY time you loose your drones is if you use them wrong and don't pay attention. In anything PVE you should not be sending your light drones beyond 10km, well that's what I live by. The NPC will scram and web them and they will be dead. Your statement about not noticing the difference between T1 and T2 drones is absolutely crazy. There is a very noticeable difference. The difference will be enough and will have you warp out when you in trouble and are scrammed by NPC as apposed to becoming space dust. I have lost 1 warrior while running incursions and nothing else in my 4 years of eve, so to say you going to loose them so get cheap is just plain silly. I have lost other drones in PVP but that's normally when I blow up and sadly my pod can't carry my babies home. The thick plottens...
Frostys Virpio Lame Corp Name 611	Posted - 2013.08.05 19:52:00 - [40] - Quote ExcalibursTemplar wrote: Frostys Virpio with Paul Otichoda skills if he doesn't learn to handle the aggro in the right way. Not matter what the ship he's flying or the moduals he fit to his ship he will lose it sooner rather than latter. With his current skill set, he should run lvl 3 anyway. If he's going to run lvl 4 with such skills, he might as well go the overtank route so he can at least keep his 100+mill ship alive even if it means his completion time are ridiculous. Learning aggro is of course important and somethign he should do but at the moment, a single misstake could mean a dead ship a few minutes later especially if he go with a cap booster fit where you ahve to plan ahead more than a straight cap satble tank or at least one he can run a few minutes before it breaks. Learning everything at the same time is a good way to make misstakes. Judging incoming DPS from a number of ships is muich easyer if you don't also have cap management to think about because the cap b ooster cannot just be run until it's empty or it will be a huge waste. Unless he's rich and don't care about replacing a few BS hulls when things go sideways...
Tobias Hareka Republic Military School Minmatar Republic 71	Posted - 2013.08.05 20:02:00 - [41] - Quote Cage Man wrote: better speed. Warriors aren't Warriors if they don't go over 6 km/s IMHO. Quote: I have done a lot of thing in eve, WH's, Incursions, etc and the ONLY time you loose your drones is if you use them wrong and don't pay attention. I actually did forget once that sleepers don't like drones and kept them out some time. Frigates were more interested about webbing my ship than attacking my drones. Going 7 m/s in BC is fun indeed.
Myriad Blaze 60	Posted - 2013.08.06 09:10:00 - [42] - Quote Cage Man wrote: Myriad Blaze wrote: But there is one thing that was often mentioned in this thread that I disagree with. Several people suggested to train up drones asap. My advice is don't. You should be able to use Hobgoblin Is, but it's not neccessary to be able to use the T2 variant. It is much more important for you to train up your fitting, shield and missile skills. Besides, it's not very cost efficient to use Hobgoblin IIs (Jita price for Hobgoblin II is around 400k; for Hobgoblin I it's roughly 6k). You will lose some drones now and then (Damsel in Distress: be distracted at the wrong moment and poof .... 5 drones are gone). Even though Hobgoblin Is are slower than the T2 variant, they do the job and you won't notice the difference much. I wouldn't recommend using Hobgoblin IIs at all (for L4 PvE in a Raven or CNR). Clearly you should be asking for advice and not giving it. Like every other module in EVE the T2 version out classes the T1 version. In the case of the drones, better damage, better speed, better defense hit-points, better tracking, to name just a few. What this means they will hit harder and live longer. If you are loosing drones due to NPC aggro, you are also doing it wrong. I have done a lot of thing in eve, WH's, Incursions, etc and the ONLY time you loose your drones is if you use them wrong and don't pay attention. In anything PVE you should not be sending your light drones beyond 10km, well that's what I live by. The NPC will scram and web them and they will be dead. Your statement about not noticing the difference between T1 and T2 drones is absolutely crazy. There is a very noticeable difference. The difference will be enough and will have you warp out when you in trouble and are scrammed by NPC as apposed to becoming space dust. I have lost 1 warrior while running incursions and nothing else in my 4 years of eve, so to say you going to loose them so get cheap is just plain silly. I have lost other drones in PVP but that's normally when I blow up and sadly my pod can't carry my babies home. Oh please. Not sending drones beyond 10km? ThatGÇÖs your choice. But in the time you wait for your targets to get that close, my T1 drones usually have taken out all (small) targets (depends a bit on the mission, of course). I prefer to clear missions fast. And why should I care if I lose 1 or 2 drones that way? Actually, if I calculate ISK/hr, it would cost me more to take the time to recall/micromanage my drones in order to save them GÇô at 6k ISK per drone GÇª whohoo. And IGÇÖm silly for claiming that people will lose drones? Maybe you should check the markets. Drones are traded in thousands. This would be very strange, if you were right. And I didnGÇÖt claim that you donGÇÖt notice a difference between T1 and T2, I said you wonGÇÖt notice the difference much (in a typical L4 mission). Besides, if the difference is enough that you have to warp out when you are in trouble and are scrammed by NPC to avoid becoming space dust you are either doing something fundamentally wrong or you are flying a **** fit or both. So maybe you are the one who should ask for advice.
Tobias Hareka Republic Military School Minmatar Republic 71	Posted - 2013.08.06 10:53:00 - [43] - Quote Myriad Blaze wrote: And IGÇÖm silly for claiming that people will lose drones? Maybe you should check the markets. Drones are traded in thousands. This would be very strange, if you were right. You're ruining my market by telling that. Quote: And I didnGÇÖt claim that you donGÇÖt notice a difference between T1 and T2, I said you wonGÇÖt notice the difference much (in a typical L4 mission). Besides, if the difference is enough that you have to warp out when you are in trouble and are scrammed by NPC to avoid becoming space dust you are either doing something fundamentally wrong or you are flying a **** fit or both. Can T1 Hobs one shot frigates? I'm asking because I haven't used T1 drones since forever.
Myriad Blaze 60	Posted - 2013.08.06 11:16:00 - [44] - Quote Tobias Hareka wrote: Myriad Blaze wrote: And IGÇÖm silly for claiming that people will lose drones? Maybe you should check the markets. Drones are traded in thousands. This would be very strange, if you were right. You're ruining my market by telling that. No worries. Next time I'm coming to the market for replacements, I'll buy some extra to compensate. Tobias Hareka wrote: Quote: And I didnGÇÖt claim that you donGÇÖt notice a difference between T1 and T2, I said you wonGÇÖt notice the difference much (in a typical L4 mission). Besides, if the difference is enough that you have to warp out when you are in trouble and are scrammed by NPC to avoid becoming space dust you are either doing something fundamentally wrong or you are flying a **** fit or both. Can T1 Hobs one shot frigates? I'm asking because I haven't used T1 drones since forever. No, T1 Hobs can not one shot frigates (well, maybe they can one shot rookie frigates, but I don't remember seeing one outside of a tutorial mission ever, so I guess that doesn't count). However, the T1 Hobs only need to kill those frigates a little bit faster than you need to pop everything else. And in most L4 missions that's not a problem considering the number of frigates compared to the number of other ships.
Myriad Blaze 60	Posted - 2013.08.06 13:26:00 - [45] - Quote Tobias Hareka wrote: I only lose T2 drones when I do something stupid. It's actually quite difficult to lose one if you know how AI that's based on original sleeper AI "thinks". Hint: there are many things AI hates more than your drones. Hey, somehow I missed that, when I quoted your post. Sneaky edit, eh? I'm really interested in your hint. Atm I don't really get what you seem to be referring to. I know only a few L4 missions where you need to keep an eye on your drones. Most are pretty harmless in this regard. But there's one (don't know the name atm, sorry) that has 4 elite frigates (in a later wave I think) that is more annoying than the others because those 4 frigates seem to always target my drones no matter what I do (i.e. recall drones, wait- or fire a CM and wait -for the square to get red, call drones again ... and moments later all squares are yellow again and they chase my drones around). Another example would be Worlds Collide (Serpentis side) which requires drones micromanagement because the drones draw aggro from nearby spanws eventually.
Nuela Beacon Light Corporation Beacon Light Alliance 153	Posted - 2013.08.06 16:28:00 - [46] - Quote Raven is not very good at lvl 4's. It can do them but stay in lvl 3's and a BC until you can run a T2 Caldari Naval Raven. If you just can't wait/impatient then get a scorp instead.
Tobias Hareka Republic Military School Minmatar Republic 71	Posted - 2013.08.06 17:19:00 - [47] - Quote Myriad Blaze wrote: Atm I don't really get what you seem to be referring to. Try for example target painter. It does help your drones too.
Phaade Debitum Naturae WHY so Seri0Us 28	Posted - 2013.08.06 17:55:00 - [48] - Quote Paul Otichoda wrote: I've recently got a battleship with cruise missiles and tried out a level 4 mission. However I'm getting my arse kicked, they keep taking down my shields and I run out my capacitor. I also had to deal with some frigates but got a chunk of my drones shot up while trying to take them out. What am I doing wrong? Arbalest' Cruise Launcher x6 Large Shield Extender II x1 X-Large C5-L Emergency Shield Overload I x1 Kinetic Deflection Amplifier II x2 Shield Boost Amplifier I x2 Thermic Dissipation Amplifier II x1 Kinetic Deflection Amplifier II x 2 Ballistic Control System I x3 Capacitor Flux Coil I x2 Large Capacitor Control Circuit Ix3 Hobgoblin Ix 5 Hammerhead Ix4 Your Raven has 9 mid slots? In PvE, don't mix passive and active tanking. Mids: Kinetic Deflection x2 Thermic Disspation x-large shield booster Shield boost amp optional, you could even use a cap booster for tanking the heavy dps when you first arrive You won't be able to run lvl 4's efficiently until you can use tech 2 hardeners and boosters. Also, ffs don't ever leave a skill you use at level 1 (cruise missiles), at lest get everything to 3 FIRST, then focus on getting what you need to 4-5. I prefer power diagnostic systems to cap flux coils, but that's also optional
Morrigan LeSante The Lost and Forgotten Troopers 329	Posted - 2013.08.06 17:56:00 - [49] - Quote If you don't notice a 25% drop in effectiveness by using non-T2 drones you're not running the same missions I am. And seriously? Skimping on drone costs? What's a decent mission boat run to these days? 750m-1b is pretty conservative for many. Hell my /ammo/ costs per mission will be more than a T2 drone. Probably a flight of them on a long mission. Do I need this cost? No, but time is money and gank is tank. If you're missioning for funding other gameplay elements and doing it any other way you ARE doing it wrong.
Bugsy VanHalen Society of lost Souls 763	Posted - 2013.08.06 18:58:00 - [50] - Quote Paul Otichoda wrote: My skills for shields are: Energy Grid Upgrades 3 Energy Management 3 Energy Systems Operation 3 Shield Emission Systems 2 Shield Management 3 Shield Operation 4 Shield Upgrades 4 Tactical shield manipulation 3 missiles: Cruiser missiles: 1 Missile Bombardment 4 Missile Projection 4 Rapid Launch 3 Target Navigation Prediction 3 Warhead Upgrades 3 what should I try to improve? to run level 4 missions well you want all you fitting skills at 4, with rank 1 fitting skills at 5. You need cruise missiles and all the missile support skills to 4 You will be at at least 10 million total skill points before you can easily run level 4 missions. but with help, and careful planing to can run them slow, but safe, before that. Think of playing WOW,if that is where you came from, now go run a raid at level 50 with generic heavy armor. Did you win? no, you were not ready. You need more than the ability to sit in a ship to be able to fly it effectively. My advice is stay in a drake until you have all your fitting skills up, and all missile support skills to at least 4. Under skilled, a drake will have a higher survivability than a Raven in level 4 missions. You will just lack the DPS to finish them fast. A rule of thumb for mission running, do not mix active and passive tank modules, in fact, mission running is near impossible with a passive/buffer tank. You want to use active hardeners. these need to be turned on, and use cap, but trust me, the extra resists are worth it. Unless you have all shield compensation skills to 5, passive resist amps are useless. many would argue that even with skills to 5 they are useless. The extra large shield booster is good, but you want to only pulse this as needed, not leave it running. This is easier to do when you have higher resists. my mission raven runs with mission specific hardeners at over 80% resists. A damage controller in a low slot is good while you are learning. it will give a little boost to your shields, and allow your armor/hull to hold up long enough to warp out if your shields go down. Forget the CCC rigs, they do not do much for your cap, that extra large booster just burns cap to fast for them to make a difference. 2 rigor and 1 flare rigs will do you much better.These do not directly affect your DPS numbers in the fitting screen, but you will hit much harder, especially against small targets. I one volley destroyers and most cruisers. frigates are still hard to hit, but can be killed by cruise missiles with good skills and rigor rigs. bring some faction missiles for those hard to kill battleships, at least until you can use t2 missiles.And keep your range. Even a low skilled raven can target out over 90km, and cruise missiles can hit much farther than that. I find 60-70 km from the BS's is good, the added range really drops the incoming DPS, while you still hit for full damage. Your basic fitting skills seem to be your biggest hole, other than cruise missiles 1, WTF is that? 4 is bare minimum for the weapon system you use in missions, you should have it to 5, with advanced cruise missiles to 4 to hit hard with T2 missiles. my raven does over 1000DPS. But your core skills, Energy Management 3 Energy Systems Operation 3 Shield Emission Systems 2 Shield Management 3 Shield Operation 4 Electronics ? Engineering ? Mechanics ? should all be to 5 before running level 4 missions. This is one spot where certificates can help. get all your core certificates to at least standard. CCC rigs will not help much when your cap is gimped by your skills. energy grid upgrade will give you more power grid, as well you will want to train weapon upgrades and advanced weapon upgrades under the gunnery path. The affect missile systems as much as they do guns. these will make your cruise launchers use less power and CPU leaving more for your tank.
Tobias Hareka Republic Military School Minmatar Republic 71	Posted - 2013.08.06 19:09:00 - [51] - Quote Morrigan LeSante wrote: Hell my /ammo/ costs per mission will be more than a T2 drone. Probably a flight of them on a long mission. Nothing beats AC Mach in ammo costs.
Cameron Freerunner Long Jump. 18	Posted - 2013.08.06 19:17:00 - [52] - Quote Bugsy VanHalen wrote: A rule of thumb for mission running, do not mix active and passive tank modules, in fact, mission running is near impossible with a passive/buffer tank. You want to use active hardeners. these need to be turned on, and use cap, but trust me, the extra resists are worth it. Unless you have all shield compensation skills to 5, passive resist amps are useless. many would argue that even with skills to 5 they are useless. When I first started missioning I used a passive tank hurricane quite successfully in L3s. Skills were at 4 at the time. I don't know if canes are still like that these days, but I never once had any issues.
Morrigan LeSante The Lost and Forgotten Troopers 329	Posted - 2013.08.06 19:22:00 - [53] - Quote Tobias Hareka wrote: Morrigan LeSante wrote: Hell my /ammo/ costs per mission will be more than a T2 drone. Probably a flight of them on a long mission. Nothing beats AC Mach in ammo costs. I know, I run cruise birds but my point is STILL true!
Cage Man 247	Posted - 2013.08.06 19:25:00 - [54] - Quote Myriad Blaze wrote: Cage Man wrote: Myriad Blaze wrote: But there is one thing that was often mentioned in this thread that I disagree with. Several people suggested to train up drones asap. My advice is don't. You should be able to use Hobgoblin Is, but it's not neccessary to be able to use the T2 variant. It is much more important for you to train up your fitting, shield and missile skills. Besides, it's not very cost efficient to use Hobgoblin IIs (Jita price for Hobgoblin II is around 400k; for Hobgoblin I it's roughly 6k). You will lose some drones now and then (Damsel in Distress: be distracted at the wrong moment and poof .... 5 drones are gone). Even though Hobgoblin Is are slower than the T2 variant, they do the job and you won't notice the difference much. I wouldn't recommend using Hobgoblin IIs at all (for L4 PvE in a Raven or CNR). Clearly you should be asking for advice and not giving it. Like every other module in EVE the T2 version out classes the T1 version. In the case of the drones, better damage, better speed, better defense hit-points, better tracking, to name just a few. What this means they will hit harder and live longer. If you are loosing drones due to NPC aggro, you are also doing it wrong. I have done a lot of thing in eve, WH's, Incursions, etc and the ONLY time you loose your drones is if you use them wrong and don't pay attention. In anything PVE you should not be sending your light drones beyond 10km, well that's what I live by. The NPC will scram and web them and they will be dead. Your statement about not noticing the difference between T1 and T2 drones is absolutely crazy. There is a very noticeable difference. The difference will be enough and will have you warp out when you in trouble and are scrammed by NPC as apposed to becoming space dust. I have lost 1 warrior while running incursions and nothing else in my 4 years of eve, so to say you going to loose them so get cheap is just plain silly. I have lost other drones in PVP but that's normally when I blow up and sadly my pod can't carry my babies home. Oh please. Not sending drones beyond 10km? ThatGÇÖs your choice. But in the time you wait for your targets to get that close, my T1 drones usually have taken out all (small) targets (depends a bit on the mission, of course). I prefer to clear missions fast. And why should I care if I lose 1 or 2 drones that way? Actually, if I calculate ISK/hr, it would cost me more to take the time to recall/micromanage my drones in order to save them GÇô at 6k ISK per drone GÇª whohoo. And IGÇÖm silly for claiming that people will lose drones? Maybe you should check the markets. Drones are traded in thousands. This would be very strange, if you were right. And I didnGÇÖt claim that you donGÇÖt notice a difference between T1 and T2, I said you wonGÇÖt notice the difference much (in a typical L4 mission). Besides, if the difference is enough that you have to warp out when you are in trouble and are scrammed by NPC to avoid becoming space dust you are either doing something fundamentally wrong or you are flying a **** fit or both. So maybe you are the one who should ask for advice. LOL sure. You the expert then, but I still have my 4 year old tengu with a pithum a medium sb, caldari navy invuln's and CN BCS's and don't loose drones. The thick plottens...
Cipher Jones The Thomas Edwards Taco Tuesday All Stars 741	Posted - 2013.08.07 18:31:00 - [55] - Quote Tobias Hareka wrote: Morrigan LeSante wrote: Hell my /ammo/ costs per mission will be more than a T2 drone. Probably a flight of them on a long mission. Nothing beats AC Mach in ammo costs. Rattlesnake by a mile actually. Eve is Real
Morrigan LeSante The Lost and Forgotten Troopers 330	Posted - 2013.08.07 18:32:00 - [56] - Quote What? Eh? how?
Cipher Jones The Thomas Edwards Taco Tuesday All Stars 741	Posted - 2013.08.08 07:36:00 - [57] - Quote Only 4 launchers and most of the damage is from drones. Eve is Real
Morrigan LeSante The Lost and Forgotten Troopers 331	Posted - 2013.08.08 07:43:00 - [58] - Quote We were talking about boats with expensive ammo costs, hence the AC mach being the costliest
Paul Otichoda Electric Sun Associates 31	Posted - 2013.08.08 07:43:00 - [59] - Quote Klymer wrote: WHY U NO HAVE Weapon Upgrades IV? Seriously, T2 Ballistic Controls on a Raven are not an option they are MANDATORY Yes they are that important. Stop training whatever it is your training right now and add weapon upgrades IV to your queue, then come back and read the rest of this post. well I've got it trained now and it really does improve the output of my drake. So yes it does seem to be a good idea
Tobias Hareka Republic Military School Minmatar Republic 72	Posted - 2013.08.08 07:50:00 - [60] - Quote Cipher Jones wrote: Only 4 launchers and most of the damage is from drones. Maybe if you think it that way. Mach is by far the most expensive ship to use in level 4s. Faction ammo isn't cheap and Mach goes through piles of faction ammo so quickly it's not even funny.
Cipher Jones The Thomas Edwards Taco Tuesday All Stars 741	Posted - 2013.08.08 08:02:00 - [61] - Quote Tobias Hareka wrote: Cipher Jones wrote: Only 4 launchers and most of the damage is from drones. Maybe if you think it that way. Mach is by far the most expensive ship to use in level 4s. Faction ammo isn't cheap and Mach goes through piles of faction ammo so quickly it's not even funny. Unless people think that its a contest to spend the most money, we're in agreement. Eve is Real
Tobias Hareka Republic Military School Minmatar Republic 72	Posted - 2013.08.08 08:06:00 - [62] - Quote Cipher Jones wrote: Tobias Hareka wrote: Cipher Jones wrote: Only 4 launchers and most of the damage is from drones. Maybe if you think it that way. Mach is by far the most expensive ship to use in level 4s. Faction ammo isn't cheap and Mach goes through piles of faction ammo so quickly it's not even funny. Unless people think that its a contest to spend the most money, we're in agreement. Higher expenses = lower profit
Rivari Kyoshun Fist of Hungarians 0	Posted - 2013.08.08 14:05:00 - [63] - Quote Hey fellow Capsuleer! I started playing Eve about 10 months ago, and I-¦ve started running lvl4s for just the same reason. I needed to realize what others said before; shield defense skills, their support and cap management ones are the first to train for, along with missile skills and drone operators. I flew a Raven for 2 weeks till I understood that for a ship which defends itself thru firepower, one needs to be patient. Make sure to fit the proper resistance with eve-survival, don-¦t hesitate to THINK about how you will engage the enemy - if there is a frig that scrams, take it out - practically shove a flight of hobgoblin t2 drones at its face. As I see, your key aspect is the freedom to move. You may encounter NPCs that prevent you from being free to fly, or leave to a station - those should be your primary targets, if the survival log does not tell you otherwise. To do this, read through the topic - it has a LOT of tips, fits and advice to help you improve. Oh, and even if t2 hobs are costly, as a secondary weapon system they can help you maintain a clear overview with proper skills
Govind Parity Labs 18	Posted - 2013.08.08 17:33:00 - [64] - Quote This is a good way to help train your skills in a balanced way and to know if you are lacking in a particular area: http://www.eve-skilltracker.com/info Create an account and associate your desired character with it. Then open up the badge for the Caldari Raven and see where you fall skill-wise. Fill out all the Basic skills before moving to Medium etc. You'll be able to see at a glance where you are lacking. I've been using this site as a guide for leveling an alt and the process seems a lot less painful than the trial and error my main went through.
Paul Otichoda Electric Sun Associates 31	Posted - 2013.08.08 18:36:00 - [65] - Quote Govind wrote: This is a good way to help train your skills in a balanced way and to know if you are lacking in a particular area: http://www.eve-skilltracker.com/info Create an account and associate your desired character with it. Then open up the badge for the Caldari Raven and see where you fall skill-wise. Fill out all the Basic skills before moving to Medium etc. You'll be able to see at a glance where you are lacking. I've been using this site as a guide for leveling an alt and the process seems a lot less painful than the trial and error my main went through. this is actually a pretty good site Even without signing up I've identified some skills that I can train up for a frigate fit I've have trouble fitting.
Cipher Jones The Thomas Edwards Taco Tuesday All Stars 742	Posted - 2013.08.08 18:39:00 - [66] - Quote Tobias Hareka wrote: Cipher Jones wrote: Tobias Hareka wrote: Cipher Jones wrote: Only 4 launchers and most of the damage is from drones. Maybe if you think it that way. Mach is by far the most expensive ship to use in level 4s. Faction ammo isn't cheap and Mach goes through piles of faction ammo so quickly it's not even funny. Unless people think that its a contest to spend the most money, we're in agreement. Higher expenses = lower profit ROFL. Tell that to Intel when they spend 1000x what AMD spends on RnD but still makes wayyyyyyyyyyyyyyy more profit. Income over time minus expenses = profit over time. Eve is Real
Donbe Scurred University of Caille Gallente Federation 102	Posted - 2013.08.08 18:48:00 - [67] - Quote Why the rich get richer and the poor get poorer. Poor people thinking: Higher expenses = lower profit Rich people thinking: Income over time minus expenses = profit over time
Tobias Hareka Republic Military School Minmatar Republic 72	Posted - 2013.08.08 18:53:00 - [68] - Quote Cipher Jones wrote: Tobias Hareka wrote: Cipher Jones wrote: Tobias Hareka wrote: Cipher Jones wrote: Only 4 launchers and most of the damage is from drones. Maybe if you think it that way. Mach is by far the most expensive ship to use in level 4s. Faction ammo isn't cheap and Mach goes through piles of faction ammo so quickly it's not even funny. Unless people think that its a contest to spend the most money, we're in agreement. Higher expenses = lower profit ROFL. Tell that to Intel when they spend 1000x what AMD spends on RnD but still makes wayyyyyyyyyyyyyyy more profit. Income over time minus expenses = profit over time. Only if you get faction ammo for free. Scam?
Cipher Jones The Thomas Edwards Taco Tuesday All Stars 743	Posted - 2013.08.08 22:10:00 - [69] - Quote Tobias Hareka wrote: Only if you get faction ammo for free. Scam? Compare Vargur to Mach. Do you really think Vargur uses more ammo / mission than Mach? It causes me to accumulate money faster over time compared to most other ships. Maybe if your vargur is dropping 1400 DPS, but I doubt that. And compared to most Battleships, yes. Quote: It takes money to makes money. Eve is Real
Velarra 261	Posted - 2013.08.08 22:51:00 - [70] - Quote This thread reminds me of the following fit... HIGH 06 x Cruise Missile Launcher I 01 x SMALL TRACTOR BEAM 1 01 x SALVAGER I MEDIUM 04 x LARGE SHIELD EXTENDERS 01 x 'HYPHNOS' ECM 01 x MEDIUM SHIELD BOOSTER LOW 01 x EMERGENCY DAMAGE CONTROL 01 x ARMOR KINETIC HARDENER I 01 x ARMOR THREMIC HARDENER I 02 x WARP CORE STABILIZER I DRONES 02 x WARRIOR I DRONES 03 x HAMMERHEAD I DRONES UPGRADES 01 x ROCKET FUEL CACHE PARTINTION I 01 x BAY LOADING ACCELERATOR I
Paul Otichoda Electric Sun Associates 37	Posted - 2013.08.19 08:12:00 - [71] - Quote Time for an update I've trained up some more of my skills and changed around my fittings I am now using a tech 2 heavy caps boaster with 800 caps instead of the shield extender. However I'm still in a problem. I can do missions against waves of small groups (EoM) since I can stay away from them and grind them down. However so often I come up against enemies I either can't break their tank or have loads of frigates that swarm me and drain my shield faster than I can replace it so I get to armour and have to warp out with a 3m repair bill. Most of the time my drones (using 4 hobgoblins) can taken them out and often the frigates aggress them instead meaning they keep dying and I have to expend the rest of my stock. So I still can't really do level 4s
Archibald Thistlewaite III 172	Posted - 2013.08.19 08:41:00 - [72] - Quote Sounds like you should be doing level 3 missions in a drake. There is a good chance you would earn more isk quickly completing level 3 missions than slowly doing the level 4's. Quote: Most of the time my drones (using 4 hobgoblins) That suggests you only have drones trained to level 4. If thats the case you will struggle to kill the frigates in level 4 missions. Do you still use the 3 Cap. Control Circuit (CCC) rigs? If you do then you will struggle to kill anything smaller than a BS. Are you using Eve-Survival to identify the triggers so you don't get overwhelmed by spawns? I fit all my Pve battleships with a MJD (Micro Jump Drive) and use range as a tank, as well as to give me time to kill any annoying frigates.
Paul Otichoda Electric Sun Associates 37	Posted - 2013.08.19 08:45:00 - [73] - Quote Archibald Thistlewaite III wrote: Sounds like you should be doing level 3 missions in a drake. There is a good chance you would earn more isk quickly completing level 3 missions than slowly doing the level 4's. Quote: Most of the time my drones (using 4 hobgoblins) That suggests you only have drones trained to level 4. If thats the case you will struggle to kill the frigates in level 4 missions. Do you still use the 3 Cap. Control Circuit (CCC) rigs? If you do then you will struggle to kill anything smaller than a BS. Are you using Eve-Survival to identify the triggers so you don't get overwhelmed by spawns? I fit all my Pve battleships with a MJD (Micro Jump Drive) and use range as a tank, as well as to give me time to kill any annoying frigates. no I junked one of them for a warhead rigor seems to help a bit but not much and yes I only have drones to 4 but they take 5 days to get to level 5 and I'm at the moment training up to be able to overheat in pvp. And I can't use a MJD but since I can only target at about 80km its not that useful.
Archibald Thistlewaite III 172	Posted - 2013.08.19 08:58:00 - [74] - Quote The MJD only takes a few minutes to train, you only need it at level 1 and is very useful in reducing the damage you take from some NPC's. If the NPC's are 20km in front of you when you activate the MJD. They will be 80km behind you when you land. You won't lose lock on any ships still in range and the frigates will MWD towards you, making them a bigger target for your cruise missiles. Against rats that have a long range swap the MJD out for either more tank or a target painter to help apply damage better.
Paul Otichoda Electric Sun Associates 37	Posted - 2013.08.19 09:01:00 - [75] - Quote Archibald Thistlewaite III wrote: Against rats that have a long range swap the MJD out for either more tank or a target painter to help apply damage better. are target painters worth it? because on my raven I could only fit it my removing one of my shield boost ampliers
Archibald Thistlewaite III 172	Posted - 2013.08.19 09:09:00 - [76] - Quote Paul Otichoda wrote: Archibald Thistlewaite III wrote: Against rats that have a long range swap the MJD out for either more tank or a target painter to help apply damage better. are target painters worth it? I haven't trained for them because on my raven I could only fit it my removing one of my shield boost ampliers They increase the signature size of the target, so your cruise missiles will do more damage against smaller targets. I don't use them myself, but thats because I use 3 rigor rigs on my Raven. If you are having trouble killing the smaller ships (Cruiser/Frigate) size, then a TP will help you kill them. If you are having trouble killing the BS size rats then a TP won't make much difference. I personally wouldn't swap a Shield boost amp. for a target painter. A hardner yes, but it all depends on what your skills allow you to fit.
Paul Otichoda Electric Sun Associates 37	Posted - 2013.08.19 09:12:00 - [77] - Quote Archibald Thistlewaite III wrote: Paul Otichoda wrote: Archibald Thistlewaite III wrote: Against rats that have a long range swap the MJD out for either more tank or a target painter to help apply damage better. are target painters worth it? I haven't trained for them because on my raven I could only fit it my removing one of my shield boost ampliers They increase the signature size of the target, so your cruise missiles will do more damage against smaller targets. I don't use them myself, but thats because I use 3 rigor rigs on my Raven. If you are having trouble killing the smaller ships (Cruiser/Frigate) size, then a TP will help you kill them. If you are having trouble killing the BS size rats then a TP won't make much difference. I personally wouldn't swap a Shield boost amp. for a target painter. A hardner yes, but it all depends on what your skills allow you to fit. I can kill battlecruisers and battleships ok, cruisers are a bit of a pain but normally I can take them down.
Morrigan LeSante The Lost and Forgotten Troopers 343	Posted - 2013.08.19 11:30:00 - [78] - Quote If you cant break their tank in a raven, you're not skilled enough. Hell, you can (eventually) take down a million bounty battleship with approx 300dps so yours must be very low indeed. Furthermore I cannot emphasize enough get 5 drones now. T2 are the next step, the difference they make is huge. If you're losing them, you need to have them engage the enemy closer in so they can be recalled in seconds. I know your reaction will be to kill the frigs as far away as possible but that'll just cost you drones. Also a TP does help your drones a little on frigs. Usually it's a waste but every little will help you. I'd advise after that you make sure you can use T2 BCUs and T2 hardeners. The rest will keep for now, but those are (imho) non-negotiable. Also, just buy an armor repairer instead of paying for repair at your career stage.
Paul Otichoda Electric Sun Associates 37	Posted - 2013.08.19 12:02:00 - [79] - Quote Morrigan LeSante wrote: If you cant break their tank in a raven, you're not skilled enough. Hell, you can (eventually) take down a million bounty battleship with approx 300dps so yours must be very low indeed. Furthermore I cannot emphasize enough get 5 drones now. T2 are the next step, the difference they make is huge. If you're losing them, you need to have them engage the enemy closer in so they can be recalled in seconds. I know your reaction will be to kill the frigs as far away as possible but that'll just cost you drones. Also a TP does help your drones a little on frigs. Usually it's a waste but every little will help you. I'd advise after that you make sure you can use T2 BCUs and T2 hardeners. The rest will keep for now, but those are (imho) non-negotiable. Also, just buy an armor repairer instead of paying for repair at your career stage. I've got just under 400dps with cruise missiles, the mission where I couldn't break the tank of some cruisers was the one called Buzz kill but from reading up on it thats one that no-one likes. I intend to train up drones next but at the moment I'm training towards being able to overheat for pvp. I already have access to t2 BCU and hardeners. In truth most of my non weapon fittings are tech 2 now.
Morrigan LeSante The Lost and Forgotten Troopers 343	Posted - 2013.08.19 12:26:00 - [80] - Quote Ah, that's more far more understandable. And that mission is crappy alright . I'd seriously do drones first - drones are very important in PvP being used (somewhat ironically) to chase off frigs What's your current fit?
Bi-Mi Lansatha Tactical Universal Research and Development 184	Posted - 2013.08.19 15:47:00 - [81] - Quote Paul Otichoda wrote: ...are target painters worth it?... Rigors, Flairs, and Target Painters increase applied DPS against mid/small ships: Cruisers, Destroyers, and Frigates. If you are having trouble killing Cruisers, but not Battleships.... your problem is applied DPS.
Bi-Mi Lansatha Tactical Universal Research and Development 184	Posted - 2013.08.19 15:57:00 - [82] - Quote Paul Otichoda wrote: ....loads of frigates that swarm me and drain my shield faster than I can replace it so I get to armour and have to warp out with a 3m repair bill. Most of the time my drones (using 4 hobgoblins) can taken them out and often the frigates aggress them instead meaning they keep dying and I have to expend the rest of my stock. So I still can't really do level 4s It is probably just me, but I never found my Hobgoblin Is with low skills to be all that effective against Frigates. Sure they could eventually take one down, but it was far from quick. It wasn't until I had Hobgoblin IIs and good skills that Frigates began to melt away.
Dia Saol Ministry of War Amarr Empire 1	Posted - 2013.08.20 03:26:00 - [83] - Quote Drone skills really should be a priority for you. They are useful in both pve and pvp. As a low skill mission runner they are very important, as low skill means it's hard to kill small targets, which is where drones shine. With Drone 4 not only can you not even use the max amount of drones, you can't train drone interfacing. By spending the time for Drones 5 and opening up drone interfacing you can then spend roughly 1.5 hours training for a 40% damage boost (drone interfacing 2, 20% damage increase per level) to your drones, or in under a day you can have a 60% damage boost to 5 drones, instead of 0% to 4 drones. That is a pretty sizable difference for someone having trouble with frigates. T2 drones should be on your train very soon list as well, but just getting drones 5 and drone interfacing to 2-3 would be a big help for you.
Zaxix Long Jump. 209	Posted - 2013.08.20 18:52:00 - [84] - Quote Donbe Scurred wrote: Why the rich get richer and the poor get poorer. Poor people thinking: Higher expenses = lower profit Rich people thinking: Income over time minus expenses = profit over time lolwut? The person was speaking of ammunition. That's an ongoing expense, not an investment like the ship or mods. If the per mission profit is lower, the overall profit is lower, no matter how long a period of time you're talking about. Bokononist -á
Zaxix Long Jump. 209	Posted - 2013.08.20 19:25:00 - [85] - Quote OP it still sounds like you're not skilled up enough, but there may be some other mission tricks to think about. 1. Understand the mission space itself. Depending on the mission, you'll either start the mission by activating a gate or by warping straight to the mission space with no gates. Whenever possible, you want to warp at maximum range (warp within 100km option on the list). You might also consider going there in a shuttle or rookie ship first, warping in at max range, then turn and fly back in the direction you warped from, get the distance even greater from the mission sight, bookmark it, and then fly back in your raven and start the engagement outside of their aggro range. This will allow you to maneuver in close enought to pull aggro on some NPCs and then let them cover that vast distance while you plink away. If they actually close in you, you're already far enough away from the original mission 0km point to warp to it, leaving the NPCs at your bookmark and still very far away. Rinse, repeat. Note: I'm not sure if this is still the case, but it used to be that some missions only provided you with the "Warp to Mission" (warp to zero) option, with no other choices available. If that is the case, all you need to do is get into a fleet. You will always have the Warp Squad to Within 100km option in fleets. 2. If there's a gate, you still have similar options, but they're totally mission dependent. In some mission spaces, once you cross through the gate, you can't warp within the mission space. In some you can. In the ones you can, you can cross the gate in a cloaked ship, arrive on grid, then manuever to a point 150km or more from the warp in point. Then come back in your raven and as soon as you warp into the first pocket, you warp to the 150k+ bookmark. (I may have the specifics of warping in missions a little mixed up. I've never tested things in an orderly manner. I have had missions where I brought a salvager into the pocket, set it to MWD far away from teh action, then, once the NPCs were dead, turned right around and warped back to a fleet member. You may want to play with this a bit to get the hang of it.) 3. Get crafty! On occasion, I've put a cloaky ship or other ship to use. I get into position and grab aggro with it and then kite the NPCs away from the warp in point. When they're far enough away, I bring in the battleship to kill at range. 4. EVE survival. Use it. Breathe it. Live it. You should never be surprised by a mission if you're using it religiously. That said, it has a few flaws. Most notably, it tends to put tank/gank types into absolute terms and uses the best "average." For example, if a mission had 3 Minmatar BS in it, but also had 10 Caldari BCs, it might tell you to use the tank/gank for the Caldari. If the Minnie BS are the real problem in the mission (e.g., long range damage w/ MWD), tanking/ganking for a slow Caldari short range BC is just going to make the mission that much harder. I've run into this problem more often with teh epic arcs on eve survival, but it still happens with other missions. Particularly ones that use mixed race "mercenary" types. I always carry the 4 main damage types so that I can swap ammo to fit the target ship. 5. An alt is always good. Let's say you don't want to make bookmarks or any of that. If nothing else, start a trial alt, put him in a frigate with MWD, warp to mission with the alt. Set the alt to fly back the way you came in. You fly in the same direction and begin the engagment. By the time you get to the point where the NPCs have closed on you and it starts to get hairy, you can warp to the alt, who should be far enough away by now (the basic version of MJD, in a way). Just some thoughts. Bokononist -á
Chainsaw Plankton IDLE GUNS IDLE EMPIRE 327	Posted - 2013.08.20 23:54:00 - [86] - Quote Zaxix wrote: Donbe Scurred wrote: Why the rich get richer and the poor get poorer. Poor people thinking: Higher expenses = lower profit Rich people thinking: Income over time minus expenses = profit over time lolwut? The person was speaking of ammunition. That's an ongoing expense, not an investment like the ship or mods. If the per mission profit is lower, the overall profit is lower, no matter how long a period of time you're talking about. over time is a pretty key phrase. if I make 10m in 15 mins and use 200k in ammo works out to 39.2m/hour, or 10m in 10 mins but use 1mil in ammo that works out to 54m/hour. sure those are random ass examples off the top of my head, but they work to show the concept of "over time" it may or may not be profitable with various weapon systems and all the different missions. You can trust me, I have a monocole
Tauranon Weeesearch 231	Posted - 2013.08.21 00:34:00 - [87] - Quote Zaxix wrote: Donbe Scurred wrote: Why the rich get richer and the poor get poorer. Poor people thinking: Higher expenses = lower profit Rich people thinking: Income over time minus expenses = profit over time lolwut? The person was speaking of ammunition. That's an ongoing expense, not an investment like the ship or mods. If the per mission profit is lower, the overall profit is lower, no matter how long a period of time you're talking about. I can assure you that shooting 30 battleships an hour is more isk/hr net after expenses than shooting 27 in the same time with cheaper ammunition. Even if that wasn't the case, the act of handing in an extra mission per session can be worth 7k LP to me, or somewhere between 5 and 20 million isk to different people depending on how terrible they are at selling their LP, and for a 7k LP mission, I'd earn an extra 3mil in bonuses too.
Zaxix Long Jump. 209	Posted - 2013.08.21 00:52:00 - [88] - Quote Chainsaw Plankton wrote: Zaxix wrote: Donbe Scurred wrote: Why the rich get richer and the poor get poorer. Poor people thinking: Higher expenses = lower profit Rich people thinking: Income over time minus expenses = profit over time lolwut? The person was speaking of ammunition. That's an ongoing expense, not an investment like the ship or mods. If the per mission profit is lower, the overall profit is lower, no matter how long a period of time you're talking about. over time is a pretty key phrase. if I make 10m in 15 mins and use 200k in ammo works out to 39.2m/hour, or 10m in 10 mins but use 1mil in ammo that works out to 54m/hour. sure those are random ass examples off the top of my head, but they work to show the concept of "over time" it may or may not be profitable with various weapon systems and all the different missions. thread reading fail on my part. i didn't scroll back far enough in the conversation to see the point of contention was faster completion time based on ammo, i just saw ammo costs and that comment. Bokononist -á

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