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Alan Dari
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Posted - 2005.12.21 11:29:00 -
[1]
IÆm a noob miner just filling a c.c. misc ore on a asteroids belt in 0.7 space.
I see a elite frigate approachingà
The  pilot of the elite frigate flag himself by opening the c.c.
IÆm happy  , I read my lessons. IÆm not so noob to open fire on Mr. Instant Death.
Seeing that the above trick doesnÆt work, Mr. Instant Death drops a container and transfers the ore from my container to his... (WTF???) 
IÆm now in a difficult position. I donÆt have the option to take the ore back, without flagging my self and get killed. 
Mr. Instant Death gives me an offer to give him ISK, so he leaves me alone...
I donÆt give him anything, and IÆm glad that I dinÆt because 2-3 min later a Iteron 5, empty the Mr. Instant Death can. Probably an alt.
The above is just a warning to the new miners in the game. Have always a friend (or an alt) near by, to transfer the ore back to station, because empire mining is not safe any more.
Have fun, and try not to loose your temper 
PS:
 Empire Space my @ss !!! |
ToxicFire
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Posted - 2005.12.21 11:31:00 -
[2]
Better yet get everyone to switch over to secure containers which i think will start to happen now which means we need larger secure containers
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Deamos
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Posted - 2005.12.21 11:33:00 -
[3]
I agree that it isnt right. Many people are using this tactic to end Macro Mining operations. I can't think of a solution to it other than say that no space is seriosuly safe, make friends and bring protection.
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Rells
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Posted - 2005.12.21 11:34:00 -
[4]
This doesnt change anything you had before except now oyu have the CHANCE to defend yourself if need by. I suggest you mine with someone hauling instead to recuce the chance of loosing money.
◄ I must not fear.
◄ Fear is the mind-killer.
◄ Fear is the little death that brings total obliteration.
◄ -- Paul Atreides
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sonofollo
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Posted - 2005.12.21 11:34:00 -
[5]
sec containers cant be used in 0.8 and up but .... joining a player corp that mines co op is an option ie u mine they haul or vise versa - its higher risk now which is quite ok tbh - blows up stoopid macro miners and carebear afk miners also now have to be less afk and more into the game good all round i think
Dont use a jet can to full simply jettison one have another person pulling the ore out of the can and haul to station problem solved if they steal a small amount its no great loss.
Im a happy little camper now - CCP 4tw. |
sonofollo
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Posted - 2005.12.21 11:35:00 -
[6]
yes u might have to do more teamwork and join a corp (nothing wrong with that though) its the whole idea of the game.
Im a happy little camper now - CCP 4tw. |
FireFoxx80
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Posted - 2005.12.21 11:36:00 -
[7]
Well, people predicted this would happen, and as always the little man gets it in the ass.
23? # Missile Tool # ex: P-TMC : USAC |
Alan Dari
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Posted - 2005.12.21 11:43:00 -
[8]
 Originally by: Rells
This doesnt change anything you had before except now oyu have the CHANCE to defend yourself if need by. I suggest you mine with someone hauling instead to recuce the chance of loosing money.
You have it wrong i think.
Before you have a simple Ore Thieve, that the only think he can do is stealing your ore. Now you have, a scammer who tries to destroy your ship in secure area using a method that for some is an exploit. You have also an exacter, trying to get your ISK (and your ore).
Using one name, you have a ôpirateö that using secure space to do his business.
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Mrs Meikel
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Posted - 2005.12.21 11:50:00 -
[9]
Edited by: Mrs Meikel on 21/12/2005 11:50:18
the pirate steals from you, he is now flagged to you - this also means any cans he owns (even ones jetisoned before he became flagged) can be opened by you (until the 15 min is up ofc)
I am almost 100% sure this is correct, and if it is not, then it needs implementing pronto!
edit: by "opened" i mean you are freely allowed to take stuff from them
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Mallikanth
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Posted - 2005.12.21 11:52:00 -
[10]
Originally by: Alan Dari
Originally by: Rells
This doesnt change anything you had before except now oyu have the CHANCE to defend yourself if need by. I suggest you mine with someone hauling instead to recuce the chance of loosing money.
You have it wrong i think.
Before you have a simple Ore Thieve, that the only think he can do is stealing your ore. Now you have, a scammer who tries to destroy your ship in secure area using a method that for some is an exploit. You have also an exacter, trying to get your ISK (and your ore).
Using one name, you have a ôpirateö that using secure space to do his business.
No. You have it wrong I'm afraid.
Before:
Ore Thief takes ore
Your options are:
1) You or a corp mate Shoot and concord kills the attacker
2) Ignore him and carry on
After:
Ore Thief takes ore
Your options are:
1) You or a corp mate Shoot and possibly kill him
2) You or a corp mate Shoot and he kills you
3) Ignore him and carry on
I would suggest always choose "Ignore him and carry on" Unless you have a cloaked corp buddy nearby whos tooled up 
In the beginning the Universe was created. This has made a lot of people very angry and has been widely regarded as a bad move.
- Douglas Adams
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Jennai
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Posted - 2005.12.21 11:54:00 -
[11]
wait until he goes to get his hauler, make a new can, move the ore to it, blow it up, dock or safespot for 15 minutes.
-------
macro hunters - join channel MacroIntel |
Rooman Black
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Posted - 2005.12.21 12:00:00 -
[12]
I really can't understand what everyone is on about?
Seriosly what is the problem?
Before the patch you sat there and let them steal your ore because there wasn't a thing you could do.
Now you sit there and let him steal your ore.
No difference.
The only difference now is *IF* you want to you can take action against them. If there is a chance they will kill you then don't do anything.
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Promon Delnai
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Posted - 2005.12.21 12:06:00 -
[13]
The whole kill-rights system and theft avenging system is flawed. I had an iteron steal 70k units of ore out of my jetcan yesterday, so I fit for combat and went out to chase him. Then once i finally have the little bastard scrambled and am feeding him heavy missles, CONCORD shows up and toasts me anyway! I lose the ore, my ship, and the thief gets the rest of my loot! I think if CCP is going to advertise this great new feature, they ought to make sure it actually works and doesnt result in the victim getting CONCORDed.
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Jennai
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Posted - 2005.12.21 12:07:00 -
[14]
Edited by: Jennai on 21/12/2005 12:08:01
Originally by: Promon Delnai
The whole kill-rights system and theft avenging system is flawed. I had an iteron steal 70k units of ore out of my jetcan yesterday, so I fit for combat and went out to chase him. Then once i finally have the little bastard scrambled and am feeding him heavy missles, CONCORD shows up and toasts me anyway! I lose the ore, my ship, and the thief gets the rest of my loot! I think if CCP is going to advertise this great new feature, they ought to make sure it actually works and doesnt result in the victim getting CONCORDed.
bug, petition it. if he takes from your can, you should have 15 minutes of free fire.
I have not had this problem with any of my macro kills, but I've heard a few reports of others losing ships to concord when they shouldn't have.
-------
macro hunters - join channel MacroIntel |
Alan Dari
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Posted - 2005.12.21 12:15:00 -
[15]
Originally by: Rooman Black
I really can't understand what everyone is on about?
Seriosly what is the problem?
Before the patch you sat there and let them steal your ore because there wasn't a thing you could do.
Now you sit there and let him steal your ore.
No difference.
The only difference now is *IF* you want to you can take action against them. If there is a chance they will kill you then don't do anything.
The problem is that with the new can flag, a new category of players is created. Pirates that operates in secure space, and try not only to steel from you, but to destroy you if you give them the chance.
IÆm playing the game 3 months now, before patch I only have one instance that an ore thieve take 10m3 ore from me and 8-10 times that noob players with small ships bite some small amount but stoping after I ôspeakö with them.
After the patch I see 2 times in 5 days ôoldö players (2 years or more in game) with PvP ready ships to change the cargo, and they are not ômacroö hunters because I speak to them.
A new category of players is born. I donÆt know if is good or bad, or if it is how the cargo flag suppose to work. I just tell my experience so all players that read the forum know about this.
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Macro Slasher
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Posted - 2005.12.21 12:23:00 -
[16]
Originally by: Alan Dari
The problem is that with the new can flag, a new category of players is created. Pirates that operates in secure space, and try not only to steel from you, but to destroy you if you give them the chance.
It's good. He should mine with friends (hauler at least), move into at least 0.7 (or where ever the secure containers start working) or just fly to a station occasional. It's all completely his own fault, he deserves to get spanked actually for acting that retarded. 
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Ion Shape
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Posted - 2005.12.21 12:36:00 -
[17]
Edited by: Ion Shape on 21/12/2005 12:43:48
Edited by: Ion Shape on 21/12/2005 12:38:12
Originally by: ToxicFire
Better yet get everyone to switch over to secure containers which i think will start to happen now which means we need larger secure containers
God damn u right m8, head on
Okay û I have now given my future in EVE some hard thinking in what way I might be able to adapt to this new jet can flag rule.
IÆm a miner who likes to play mostly by my self. Some day I might join a corp. or make one ones again. but for now I just donÆt have the desirer for doing so. Anyway if you in corp. miners mine alone in secured space about 90% of the time. You have the option to work alone in eve or you could join a corp. both ways are legal so there is no û this is the right way to do it way.
Situation secure space pre patch:
You have to deal width ore thieves and NPCÆs
Situation secured space after patch:
You have to deal width ore thieves and NPCÆs AND Pirates. 
Now also pirates think it fun. They just come up in their BS and takes from your jet can and put it back. Now I canÆt take from this can if I do then he has the right to shoot at me. Of cause he also has been flagged because he took from the can first so I can also shoot at him - Oh right . . . IÆm in a barge then back to base after a bigger ship and he is just over the ôhillö. You have just wasted a lot of time for nothing!!
We miners could of cause now use a giant secured can û but hey . . . as it is now they can only take 3900m3 and as a real miner I fill this in 3 minutes. I could use a second account and use this for hauling I know that but this I cant effort. So what can I do then! If I again should work in a fairly orderly manner without too mush waste time I have to plaster every ore belt width about 20 giant cans and this cant - I guess - be good for anything but lag. But this is what I will do to adapt. It will take some time but I have to do it û we talking about my home system so itÆs a must for me to work efficiently there.
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Kaill
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Posted - 2005.12.21 12:50:00 -
[18]
Edited by: Kaill on 21/12/2005 12:52:51
Or,
You could consider giving it some time to die down.
Theres allways another griefer, and these guys definently fall in that category. However since these "would be"-pirates are mostly kids, they will eventually get bored of it, and move on.
My guess is it won't be more than a few weeks before it becomes old news, and some new exploit comes along.
Besides, they only do this as long as it's fun, and right now, with all the complaining going on on the forums, it is exactly that.
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Wrayeth
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Posted - 2005.12.21 12:54:00 -
[19]
Personally, I see this as yet another positive change to the game - CCP wants more players out in 0.0, and if high-sec space isn't fully safe anymore, the higher reward rate for 0.0 should be a no-brainer.
-Wrayeth
Go away. |
Ion Shape
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Posted - 2005.12.21 12:59:00 -
[20]
Originally by: Kaill
Or,
You could consider giving it some time to die down.
Theres allways another griefer, and these guys definently fall in that category. However since these "would be"-pirates are mostly kids, they will eventually get bored of it, and move on.
My guess is it won't be more than a few weeks before it becomes old news, and some new exploit comes along.
You properly right m8!
Okay maybe not ALL belts (many belts here)  IÆm thinking of about 3-4 belts width 20 cans each. Then I just move to these belts when needed.
Always better to overdue it when you try to explain û then ppl better getting the big picture
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Arkanis
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Posted - 2005.12.21 13:02:00 -
[21]
I believe this is called Fishing.
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000Hunter000
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Posted - 2005.12.21 13:07:00 -
[22]
people that use the ore transfer method to trick people into getting flagged so they can shoot em arn't pirates at all, there just griefers.
Its a bit sad, i think ccp missed an opportunity here, u can't transfer stuff to a can if it's not in your corp/gang, so why not just do the same for taking, if the can is not from your gang/corp u can't take from it either.
Set a timer on it so lootcans can still be emptied if say the owner or owners gang/corp isn't around for say 15 minutes or so.
sadly the above won't probably happen anymore so another solution is larger sec cans. sadly this doesn't help the newb player thats trying to make a living in 1.0 - 0.9 
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AlleyKat
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Posted - 2005.12.21 13:07:00 -
[23]
Originally by: Alan Dari
Seeing that the above trick doesnÆt work, Mr. Instant Death drops a container and transfers the ore from my container to his... (WTF???)
PS:
Empire Space my @ss !!!
Knew this would happen :)
Regards,
AK.
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Ion Shape
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Posted - 2005.12.21 13:10:00 -
[24]
Originally by: Arkanis
I believe this is called Fishing.
LOL
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Xen0phobiak
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Posted - 2005.12.21 13:13:00 -
[25]
Use secure cans, or out your can at a SS and ninja mine.
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Bacchuss
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Posted - 2005.12.21 14:13:00 -
[26]
im sorry but this is the funniest thing ive ever heard and perty damn smart on the pirates part lol
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Jenny Spitfire
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Posted - 2005.12.21 14:15:00 -
[27]
I have seen newer tactics though, ore thieves are now more sophisticated. They no longer use haulers, they come in BS with loads of cargo expanders and guns.
----------------
RecruitMe@NOINT! |
Velsharoon
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Posted - 2005.12.21 14:18:00 -
[28]
Originally by: Jenny Spitfire
I have seen newer tactics though, ore thieves are now more sophisticated. They no longer use haulers, they come in BS with loads of cargo expanders and guns.
So whats the problem, people always complained the ore thieves were alts and unnacountable , now you have people flying BS to hate
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Zag Stormchild
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Posted - 2005.12.21 14:19:00 -
[29]
See it this way...
a new type of player is born, a new type of danger is born. A new type of pirates and a new danger in space. What is not to like about that ?
more player content :)
((well ok, i'm just trying to cheer you guys up lol))
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Daald
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Posted - 2005.12.21 14:27:00 -
[30]
I really don't see the problem.
Old way:
Hauling alt, came and took your ore.
New way:
Their fighter has to come and bully you so their hauling alt can come and take your ore.
More work for them and much higher risk for them since you could have someone in your corp come and blow them to hell.
Also another plus. You now have 2 people to add to your "friends" list. Pay them back in the future as I'm sure the fighter alt will not stay in a noob corp forever or make a trap for them.
So in conclusion you have more options to deal with them now instead of screaming in local and being laughted at.
P.S.
The people that get ganked when they take their ore back will take a while to get the hang of things. Just as long as it took people to realize that you get concordonken when you fire at that thief's hauling alt.
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