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Why is CCP not commenting on 'corp thievery' ?

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Avon	Posted - 2005.12.22 15:03:00 - [31] Originally by: Rod Blaine Originally by: Carcharoth Nope.. not acusing BoB of cheating... I'm acusing BoB of lowering their corporate standards more and more (who teh feck let 40oz members in?! LoL ) 40oz ? Don't have any clue who that are... Then again, does it matter ? Our "corporate standards" got lowered ? First I hear of it tbh. As far as I know neither our recruitment nor our behavioural policies have changed. On the other hand, that may not be always be a good thing to others either. However, If at some point BoB has started the slide down into the abyss, blame however recruited Avon ! ______________________________________________ The Battleships is not and should not be a solo pwnmobile - Oveur
Mr Dogg	Posted - 2005.12.22 15:07:00 - [32] As the reply above clearly shows CCP had every intention to allow this sort of stuff to happen. Seems to me like you are seeking some sort of restitution for your inability to run a corp. Trust no one and use secure cans in corp hangars, a nice little feature of these is the ability to log everything that comes and goes. Also, allowing anyone in the corp POS access is beyond idiotic in every respect. You were asking for this. Good job to the guy who noticed your erronueos ways. --------------- I'm A MOGG Half MAN Half DOGG IM MY OWN BEST FRIEND!
Carcharoth	Posted - 2005.12.22 15:16:00 - [33] Plz refrain from making your assumptions MoGG... Or Ill beat u down with meh mighty SwartZ!!11 I'm not looking for compensation/restitution... I haven't lost anything ( yet ;) ) apart from a couple ships in combat. All I'm saying is that CCP is sending out contradicting messages: - FAQ says corp thievery is ok - EULA says abusing game features to gain advantage isn't ok Hope this cleared things up forya...
Avon	Posted - 2005.12.22 15:17:00 - [34] Originally by: Carcharoth Plz refrain from making your assumptions MoGG... Or Ill beat u down with meh mighty SwartZ!!11 I'm not looking for compensation/restitution... I haven't lost anything ( yet ;) ) apart from a couple ships in combat. All I'm saying is that CCP is sending out contradicting messages: - FAQ says corp thievery is ok - EULA says abusing game features to gain advantage isn't ok Hope this cleared things up forya... Which game feature do you feel was abused? ______________________________________________ The Battleships is not and should not be a solo pwnmobile - Oveur
Desverger	Posted - 2005.12.22 15:17:00 - [35] Originally by: AlexK100 Originally by: TalMahar Originally by: Foxstein Here is an Idea -- I remeber when I applied to a corp a while back I was required to send the CEO a screenshot of my character login page before they would consider admission. This way They knew all the character on my account -- I imagine this would cut down on the amount of unknow alts within a corp Photoshop? I will prefer TS interview for that case. PS This topic could be considered closed after Avon`s FAQ answer. Just out of curiosity, aren't TS / email / photoshop out of game tools? Wouldn't that mean you gain trust with out of game tools when lieing or faking screenshots?
Ethidium Bromide	Posted - 2005.12.22 15:29:00 - [36] 2 accounts 2 characters.... you know that's where the role was put into role playing game.... _________________________________ just because you are not paranoid doesn't mean i'm not following!
Winterblink	Posted - 2005.12.22 15:33:00 - [37] Originally by: Ethidium Bromide 2 accounts 2 characters.... you know that's where the role was put into role playing game.... EVE isn't a role playing game. Techncially, it's a MMOG, not a MMORPG. winterblink warp drive active.http://winterblink.com/wda nature vraie.http://winterblink.com/env
Rod Blaine	Posted - 2005.12.22 15:34:00 - [38] Edited by: Rod Blaine on 22/12/2005 15:35:10 Originally by: Avon Originally by: Carcharoth Plz refrain from making your assumptions MoGG... Or Ill beat u down with meh mighty SwartZ!!11 I'm not looking for compensation/restitution... I haven't lost anything ( yet ;) ) apart from a couple ships in combat. All I'm saying is that CCP is sending out contradicting messages: - FAQ says corp thievery is ok - EULA says abusing game features to gain advantage isn't ok Hope this cleared things up forya... Which game feature do you feel was abused? No, the correct quesiton to ask is: What advantage did he gain ? After all, what did he do that you cannot do just as easily. Did he get an unfair advantage ? Does he mine faster ? Get more isk for his npc kills ? Does he get less lag ? More agility ? He doesn't does he ? In fact, he does nothing that not everyone else can. Hell, and waht Avon says is true as well: he doesn't evne use or abuse any game mehcanics or out-of-game things for it does he ? So, that leads to one conlcusion only: the only difference between him and you is that he made a different choice. He has the same options, all the options are admittable and quite within the eula. All he does is do something you don't agree is something one should do. But, eve has no morals. Eve just has power, and ways to use it to your advantage. _______________________________________________ Power to the players !
Nyphur	Posted - 2005.12.22 15:36:00 - [39] Because corp thievery is cool.
Avon	Posted - 2005.12.22 15:38:00 - [40] I took 400 cruise missiles from a BNC hangar without asking. I'm afraid that Santa won't bring me any gifts now, I'm probably on the naughty list. Hang on. I have access to that hangar, and we are allowed to grab stuff. If I left BNC right now with the missiles would that make me a corp thief? Where do you draw the line? ______________________________________________ The Battleships is not and should not be a solo pwnmobile - Oveur
Ethidium Bromide	Posted - 2005.12.22 15:39:00 - [41] Originally by: Winterblink Originally by: Ethidium Bromide 2 accounts 2 characters.... you know that's where the role was put into role playing game.... EVE isn't a role playing game. Techncially, it's a MMOG, not a MMORPG. would you care to enlighten me what exactly the difference is? and i am sincere, i'd really like to know if it is just a line you draw or if it has to fulfill some criteria to fit either of the categories.. _________________________________ just because you are not paranoid doesn't mean i'm not following!
Avon	Posted - 2005.12.22 15:42:00 - [42] Originally by: Ethidium Bromide Originally by: Winterblink Originally by: Ethidium Bromide 2 accounts 2 characters.... you know that's where the role was put into role playing game.... EVE isn't a role playing game. Techncially, it's a MMOG, not a MMORPG. would you care to enlighten me what exactly the difference is? and i am sincere, i'd really like to know if it is just a line you draw or if it has to fulfill some criteria to fit either of the categories.. Scrabble is a game, dungeons and dragons is a RPG. Think of Eve as a huge game of scrabble. ______________________________________________ The Battleships is not and should not be a solo pwnmobile - Oveur
Ethidium Bromide	Posted - 2005.12.22 15:44:00 - [43] Originally by: Avon Originally by: Ethidium Bromide Originally by: Winterblink Originally by: Ethidium Bromide 2 accounts 2 characters.... you know that's where the role was put into role playing game.... EVE isn't a role playing game. Techncially, it's a MMOG, not a MMORPG. would you care to enlighten me what exactly the difference is? and i am sincere, i'd really like to know if it is just a line you draw or if it has to fulfill some criteria to fit either of the categories.. Scrabble is a game, dungeons and dragons is a RPG. Think of Eve as a huge game of scrabble. and i'm of the few idiots roleplaying their pieces then? _________________________________ just because you are not paranoid doesn't mean i'm not following!
Avon	Posted - 2005.12.22 15:45:00 - [44] ZomgquickloadXrays ... and on a tripple word score! I win. ______________________________________________ The Battleships is not and should not be a solo pwnmobile - Oveur
Winterblink	Posted - 2005.12.22 15:51:00 - [45] Originally by: Ethidium Bromide would you care to enlighten me what exactly the difference is? and i am sincere, i'd really like to know if it is just a line you draw or if it has to fulfill some criteria to fit either of the categories.. I actually had something else written up for this response, but something just popped into my head at the last minute that seemed pertinent. So I deleted the rest and thought I'd go with this. If you play a game like Everquest, you choose a role for your character and once that's done you're set. You're a wizard, fighter, healer, whatever, for the duration. You play the role. With EVE, that role is flexible. You don't have to skill your character to be a combat pilot, or a miner. In fact, most of the players of this game have a large variety of skills. You don't play a role per se, rather you just play. That's me being clever, but there are other classical definitions of the two which are easily found out there in the ether. winterblink warp drive active.http://winterblink.com/wda nature vraie.http://winterblink.com/env
bumcheekcity	Posted - 2005.12.22 16:22:00 - [46] So wait a minuite here. If someone coems into our corp and we trust him, and he nicks some corp ships or BPOs or whatever, and leaves, there's NO WAY we can get back at him? Or can we get back at people who steal our own, personal assets? Or neither? -- bumcheekcity
Azuriel Talloth	Posted - 2005.12.22 16:33:00 - [47] Edited by: Azuriel Talloth on 22/12/2005 16:34:44 Originally by: Winterblink If you play a game like Everquest, you choose a role for your character and once that's done you're set. You're a wizard, fighter, healer, whatever, for the duration. You play the role. With EVE, that role is flexible. You don't have to skill your character to be a combat pilot, or a miner. In fact, most of the players of this game have a large variety of skills. You don't play a role per se, rather you just play. That's me being clever, but there are other classical definitions of the two which are easily found out there in the ether. I think it's the opposite. Games that fix your role for you like Everquest and WoW are weak for roleplaying. You can be anything in those games... as long as you roleplay as an aventurer. You're choices are "hmm should I be a magic using adventurer or a sword using adventurer? Or maybe a dagger using adventurer..." In Eve there are so many more roles you can choose. And you're never confined to one path, you can branch out as much or as little as you like, and switch from one path to another whenever you want. It makes for a much richer world than walking around Orgimmar as Orcish Hero #254,691. Anyway sorry for off topic, don't have much to add to the main topic that hasn't already been said. CCP knows about it, it's part of the game, and the fact this kind of subterfuge is allowed to exist is a big part of Eve's success.
TFer Atvar	Posted - 2005.12.22 16:49:00 - [48] Originally by: bumcheekcity So wait a minuite here. If someone coems into our corp and we trust him, and he nicks some corp ships or BPOs or whatever, and leaves, there's NO WAY we can get back at him? Or can we get back at people who steal our own, personal assets? Or neither? Of course you can get back at him. Harass him, kill him, pod him. If he joins another corp, wardec them--some corps would be happy to force out a player who caused a war. (Some, not all). Force him to give up what he stole (or monetary compensation otherwise) through your incessant attacks on him.
Riggwelter	Posted - 2005.12.22 16:50:00 - [49] Edited by: Riggwelter on 22/12/2005 16:51:44 Well if its the same ploy BOB have used before where they use a charater that has been given access to the fitting array at a POS to offline and steal the whole POS. Then i think it verges very close to being an exploit if it isnt. CCP have not given the corporations or alliances the tools they need to enable them to protect the corp assets properly. Having to give someone this sort of privalege in order to use a fitting array is madness at the extreme. Seriously thought that this would have been changed as theres not much point having a fitting array at a POS if only your senior directors can use it and you be happy its secure. If this isnt what happened or its been fixed so it cant be done id be pleased. BTW Corp thievery might be regarded as OK but using a feature in an unintended manner to gain advantage (Corp Theivery) sounds very much like an exploit.
Avon	Posted - 2005.12.22 17:05:00 - [50] Originally by: Riggwelter Edited by: Riggwelter on 22/12/2005 16:51:44 Well if its the same ploy BOB have used before where they use a charater that has been given access to the fitting array at a POS to offline and steal the whole POS. Then i think it verges very close to being an exploit if it isnt. CCP have not given the corporations or alliances the tools they need to enable them to protect the corp assets properly. Having to give someone this sort of privalege in order to use a fitting array is madness at the extreme. Seriously thought that this would have been changed as theres not much point having a fitting array at a POS if only your senior directors can use it and you be happy its secure. If this isnt what happened or its been fixed so it cant be done id be pleased. BTW Corp thievery might be regarded as OK but using a feature in an unintended manner to gain advantage (Corp Theivery) sounds very much like an exploit. It's fixed anyway. Characters have to be in an NPC corp to be transfered. ______________________________________________ The Battleships is not and should not be a solo pwnmobile - Oveur
bumcheekcity	Posted - 2005.12.22 17:19:00 - [51] Originally by: TFer Atvar Originally by: bumcheekcity So wait a minuite here. If someone coems into our corp and we trust him, and he nicks some corp ships or BPOs or whatever, and leaves, there's NO WAY we can get back at him? Or can we get back at people who steal our own, personal assets? Or neither? Of course you can get back at him. Harass him, kill him, pod him. If he joins another corp, wardec them--some corps would be happy to force out a player who caused a war. (Some, not all). Force him to give up what he stole (or monetary compensation otherwise) through your incessant attacks on him. But CCP woudln't take action, and the Devs woudln't return any of the stolen stuff like they do for normal scams? -- bumcheekcity
Arcticblue2	Posted - 2005.12.22 17:20:00 - [52] Well being a CEO of a corp I do not require screenshots to see who their alts are, if they have alts they can use them as they please! it is none of my business. I give accessrights (I created titles) to easy give what rights people can have... my directors are people I know from real life and all but one are living in same town as me. In planning I am going to create a role (title) that is simular to directors but where they can't access all hangars. In the end... our most valuble blueprints (3 of them I paid for myself) I keep in MY hangar, only coping them from time to time and put copies in the blueprint hangar. Everybody got rights to see them but only directors can actually take them. in the end ... only "theft" we have had in the corp was by a friend who just could not set his priorities straight... WoW or EVE... it ended on WoW after a "loan" from corp funds. We got his bpo's and he got the isk, the bpo's are worth more. ---------------------------------------------- "When I was a child, I spoke as a child, I felt as a child, I thought as a child: now that I am become a man, I have put away childish things." 1 cor.
Ominus Decre	Posted - 2005.12.22 17:28:00 - [53] Originally by: Carcharoth Why doesnt CCP do anything about all these corps claiming that it's okay to use an out-of-game way of "infiltrating" another corp/alliance by using an untraceable alt on another account?! Ow... And please refrain from posting any replies saying "players are responsible for their own assets". Everyone that has ever run a corp knows that sooner or later you're going to have to trust one or more corp members to handle something for you. And that's usually the time at wich these cowards strike because up untill that time the spy didnt have a chance to rob-u-blind(tm) because you were protecting your assets. Duh! Sounds like some players lack the foresight in sa***aurding their "corporate" wares. Maybe if you attempted to build a corporation which strives to support the community and not the asset there will be little to less attention placed towards your assets. It's your decision to place those in command who are worthy of trust to facilitate and maintain the integrity of your corporate wares. These actions are not isolated to EVE, they are found within most MMO's which have tangible ingame assets to be housed and delivered upon request. This game is based upon the possibility of a hostile takeover in a unfriendly environment. I find this atractive while concerncing. I will formulate a method to build a community while ensuring that out efforts and wares are returned to those who provide an equal effort in producing. My last guild in "the-game-that-shall-not-be-named" had succeeded through many attempts of others to capatalize upon our good nature. We were a complete success and I am proud of the community which we developed before the game took a downturn. It's up to the leaders of your corp to ensure the integrity of your facilities.
Riggwelter	Posted - 2005.12.22 17:52:00 - [54] Edited by: Riggwelter on 22/12/2005 17:52:22 Originally by: Avon Originally by: Riggwelter Edited by: Riggwelter on 22/12/2005 16:51:44 Well if its the same ploy BOB have used before where they use a charater that has been given access to the fitting array at a POS to offline and steal the whole POS. Then i think it verges very close to being an exploit if it isnt. CCP have not given the corporations or alliances the tools they need to enable them to protect the corp assets properly. Having to give someone this sort of privalege in order to use a fitting array is madness at the extreme. Seriously thought that this would have been changed as theres not much point having a fitting array at a POS if only your senior directors can use it and you be happy its secure. If this isnt what happened or its been fixed so it cant be done id be pleased. BTW Corp thievery might be regarded as OK but using a feature in an unintended manner to gain advantage (Corp Theivery) sounds very much like an exploit. It's fixed anyway. Characters have to be in an NPC corp to be transfered. Whats fixed the tfr of characters or the having to give starbase access to use parts of a POS ordinary members should be able to. The latter ill think you find isnt as fixed as you think if thats what you thought.
Rod Blaine	Posted - 2005.12.22 17:54:00 - [55] Originally by: bumcheekcity Originally by: TFer Atvar Originally by: bumcheekcity So wait a minuite here. If someone coems into our corp and we trust him, and he nicks some corp ships or BPOs or whatever, and leaves, there's NO WAY we can get back at him? Or can we get back at people who steal our own, personal assets? Or neither? Of course you can get back at him. Harass him, kill him, pod him. If he joins another corp, wardec them--some corps would be happy to force out a player who caused a war. (Some, not all). Force him to give up what he stole (or monetary compensation otherwise) through your incessant attacks on him. But CCP woudln't take action, and the Devs woudln't return any of the stolen stuff like they do for normal scams? Nope, but neither will they for normal scams btw. The only scams that CCP will act upon by punishing the scammer and returning the scamemd goods/isk/character to the victim is with scams involving character transfers and gametimecaode sales. This because CCP has provided website support for these trades and as such cannot allow scamming using that support. Within the game however, those rules do not apply, since scam prevention ingame is something you have control over. _______________________________________________ Power to the players !
AlexK100	Posted - 2005.12.22 18:05:00 - [56] Quote: Corp thievery might be regarded as OK but using a feature in an unintended manner to gain advantage (Corp Theivery) sounds very much like an exploit. And here is CCP voice: Quote: 6.7 Can I be a corporate spy? Spying, scheming, double-dealing and espionage are devilishly delicious features of EVE for those who relish walking on the dark side. Corporation leaders are urged to exercise extreme caution when accepting new members, particularly when granting access to their private communications and corporate holdings. There are criminal elements in EVE who can, and will, take advantage of unsuspecting marks. Dont you think that it is the right of CCP to decide on exploits ? They stated explicitly that corp theivery IS NOT an exploit and it is valid profession. End of story imao.
Raem Civrie	Posted - 2005.12.22 18:05:00 - [57] Oh deary me, I laughed so hard my spleen almost imploded. The Ubiqua Seraph Heist was carried out by Arenis Xemdal, who became director in UQS despite having GHSC on his past employer list. There was little or no out-of-game activity here; he was hired in-game, he joined them in-game, he earned their trust in-game, he stole everything he could get his hands on in-game, he killed and podded Mirial in-game. It was done within game mechanics. And CCP (or rather the game masters) did comment on it. They said they were not going to get involved, and that no rules had been broken to their knowledge. Deal with it. Corp thievery is PART of this game, just as shared resources are. Infiltration is part of the game. If you feel you are vulnerable, beef up your security. Spies slip through the most vulnerable *****s, so just get patchin'. As for BoB, their reputation has never been "honorable". They have also never tried to cultivate such a reputation. What they HAVE spent effort on is the illusion of invulnerability, which has helped them alot in the past. They do that partly by using spies. I'm not going to call it a network, simply because I don't know how expansive it is. Then again, if I did know, it probably would be by some colossal mistake on behalf of BoB and said network would be compromised. Your post was a rant, a whine. It had no research behind it, and made statements that were just plain wrong. Get-A-Clue --- God-King of Genitalia
Berrik Radhok	Posted - 2005.12.22 18:18:00 - [58] If you don't want to be scammed, don't run your corp like a tard.
Blacklight	Posted - 2005.12.22 18:33:00 - [59] P.S. Avon have you got the keys for that POS we're ripping off later? Eve Blacklight Style
Avon	Posted - 2005.12.22 18:40:00 - [60] Originally by: Blacklight P.S. Avon have you got the keys for that POS we're ripping off later? Might not be there, so the normal plan applies: 1x Key under gnome 1x Key under flower pot 1x Key under welcome mat 1x Key stuck behind the cat-flap. The key entry code is 1337 and the alarm reset is 55378008 ______________________________________________ The Battleships is not and should not be a solo pwnmobile - Oveur

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