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Joystick Control

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Comanche26	Posted - 2005.12.23 13:26:00 - [1] Id love to see manual control to a new level, say you press a key (defined by the player) and then it activated your joystick, so you can get more refined control over your ship and make navagation loads more easyier, and also whould improve combat consibably. Hope the devs see this and think about it -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Signature removed - File size too large.Laurelin Web Admin: http://stellanova.servegame.com/
Jack Amarr	Posted - 2005.12.23 19:05:00 - [2] you have no idea how many people say, this.....it happens about twice a month. the control system is perfectly suited for eve. you can'y fly dreadnoughts or other alrge ships with a joystick, it simply wouldn't work (as well as the current system) i though that joysticks would be cool when i first started playing as well, but i quickly realised it could get very impracticle. how would you lock onto something with a joystick? how would you warp to a certain deastination? leave the control system alone. its one of the things ccp have perfected -------------------------------------------------- Matt Bellamy is god. EVE is heaven. The algebraist is the bible.
Durnil	Posted - 2005.12.24 00:54:00 - [3] It would be nice to at least be able to bind keys to left/right/up/down, though. Agreeably useless for the larger ships, but for those of us that enjoy jumping in a fighter and tooling around in belts.
Nuri Aderynn	Posted - 2005.12.24 02:59:00 - [4] It's not technically possible. Joystick control requires instantaneous response = mega lag. The point-and-click interface EVE has at the moment could handle, say, a couple seconds of lag as opposed to milliseconds. You tell the server "orbit this," "attack this target," and the server can deal with it easily. Think about it and you'll see why EVE can handle 20,000 players while Doom 3 can handle four.
Sinari Galdrin	Posted - 2005.12.24 11:40:00 - [5] Originally by: Nuri Aderynn It's not technically possible. Joystick control requires instantaneous response = mega lag....Think about it and you'll see why EVE can handle 20,000 players while Doom 3 can handle four. Hmm, I spent a lot of time playing an online game called Air Warrior 10+ years ago, on a 2400 modem THAT could easily handle 20-30 players in a single combat area flying WW2 planes with joysticks. (OK, it got a bit laggy with 30 players, but it wasn't unplayable). (You don't actually need "instantaneous" response, just sub-second responses). Server & network performance has improved quite a bit since then.. (Based on 'Moores Law', probably by around 64 times, so that would be a 1000+ simultaneous player air battle if Air Warrior was still around - wow I want that..) Don't get me wrong, I like the Eve control system, and don't want joysticks - but people saying it's "not technically possible", aren't necessarily correct.
Alexis Ne	Posted - 2005.12.24 16:46:00 - [6] Agree. After I've played Ghost Recon (tactical FPS), I came to a definite conclusion every FPS requiring broadband has a poor network code. In Ghost Recon you could be competitive in 30 people games using a dialup connection. Sure the space sim is somewhat different, but I don't believe bandwidth is a huge limiting factor here. That said, I don't have problems with the current ship navigation system.
Comanche26	Posted - 2005.12.25 21:52:00 - [7] Originally by: Nuri Aderynn It's not technically possible. Joystick control requires instantaneous response = mega lag. The point-and-click interface EVE has at the moment could handle, say, a couple seconds of lag as opposed to milliseconds. You tell the server "orbit this," "attack this target," and the server can deal with it easily. Think about it and you'll see why EVE can handle 20,000 players while Doom 3 can handle four. Maybe so nuri, but consider Star Wars Galaxies, theres thousands of players fighting using star fighters, AND you can use a joystick, and the game is wayy not as popular as EVE. So chew that and swollow it.
Macro Slasher	Posted - 2005.12.25 22:22:00 - [8] Besides.. If joystick control gave even the slightest advantage over non-joystick users, people not wanting to use themselves a joystick wouldn't fight with the joystick users. And if it doesn't give any advantage, wtf? Anyways, you can do pretty nice moving even without joystick control.
smashsmash	Posted - 2005.12.25 22:35:00 - [9] i don't really like the current control setup very much but i can't offer a better alternative to it so i have to keep quiet on the whole issue. why did games abandon joysticks to begin with? the last joystick i owned i bought for my commodore 64. I <3 C=. ---- Would you like some cries with your whaaamburger?
Squall heart	Posted - 2005.12.25 22:38:00 - [10] I've always thought this would be pointless. EVE is mainly about ingame skills and tactical thinking, not twitch controls and reflexes (ok, there is locking...). EVE was never supposed to be a 'flight sim' or 'freelancer' type of game, and never will be.
Derek Degenerante	Posted - 2005.12.26 03:31:00 - [11] Edited by: Derek Degenerante on 26/12/2005 03:31:38 Joystick control is not feasible in a game like Eve.If you were in*****pit then maybe but you have to remember that you arent shooting guns that are foward firing from front of ship.As an example use a rifter.This is a ship the size of a 747 yet moves with a fighters agility that has 3 guns onboard.You would have to have a pilot and 3 gunners aboard as you orbit at high speeds.Even with 3 gunners aboard I would say they would not be in tune with the pilots split second manuevers. This is where the pod comes in..... I think that a good compromise would be to use the mouse wheel to control thrust.Set to orbit at 500M and if you want more or less you feed in more or less thrust by using the mouse wheel.Say your not hitting hard enuff and enemy is not touching you so you slowly add thrust and your orbit distance increases.
Nisse Owned	Posted - 2005.12.26 11:03:00 - [12] The control system we got is ok, but i always have a 2 second delay after double clicking in space, its pretty irritating. I would like to see a reduction of that delay. When im flying with mwd i have to try to double click 2 seconds before i get to the point where i want to turn, pretty irritating id say, i have never flown a inty but it seems i have to stick with orbit if i get one
Comanche26	Posted - 2005.12.26 21:07:00 - [13] well there is bad points and good points. its a thing for CCP to consider. i think there should be for combat navagation it should be the system used now, but for the normal navagation it could be stick controlled. Yes the lag does affect the responce time of the clicking method and that needs to be toned down a little to atleast 1 second if possible. it would be a good thing to test, but if it proves that theres a great disadvantage to the players without joysticks then it could be removed.
Nisse Owned	Posted - 2005.12.26 21:34:00 - [14] Well i hope ccp can at least give it a fair chance, and maybe disable it in battle to begin with, i think it will be a nice addon for a excellent game Note: If the any devs read this please give a opinion at least, else we wont know that youve read it
NattyDreadlock	Posted - 2005.12.27 08:28:00 - [15] i dont see why people cant be ok with joysticks being an optional mans of directional control. Its not like people want to use it to fly around WWII style pushing the trigger for bore-soght shots. I just want to make use of manuvers that are being wasted in game but NPCs use to evade shots. If these manuvers could be coded into the current control model with joysticks then I'd be fine. But if they cant bE coded, I'd like the option of taking more control of the ship with a joystick. I cant help but believe a pod pilot with the ship plugged into his brain spine would limit himself to 2D manuvers. _____________________________ You hit "insert pirate" with a frozen turd right in the eye from your 150mm railgun for 0.0 damage.
Anaela Celestial	Posted - 2005.12.27 13:45:00 - [16] I sure could use at least key control. Some people says "eve is a tactical game not a dogfight" and I reply "Isn¦t the positioning the very core of a tactical game?". I think my combats would much more tactical if I could change the ship direction at my will instead zooming out, repositioning the camera, spamming clicks on the screen, praying the ship turns on the right direction. The tactical overview layer would be much more useful as well.
M Mother	Posted - 2006.01.02 01:10:00 - [17] How about this then: flying bigger ship give no advance using joystick but being able to control the ship with the keyboard would be nice. Being able to roll and things like that would give bigger ships advance if like left shield went down. But flying frigates would give an extreme advance. Frigaves would aim all weapons forwards so you should only be able to fire when aiming at something. Like a ww2 flightsimulator. When fireing you would be able to give much higher damage then you would do if the guns was handleing it self, but you would be able to get the target in sight first. instead of dealing 20dmg every 5 second you could do 200-300 but only when you get a clear shot and how often that happens depends on how skilled you are with the stick. 1 burst on another frigate could take him out of it was a good shot. This would give EVE pure dogfighting between smaller ships and frigates would be able to deal higher damage on bigger ships also. Small frigates using missiles would be able to have locked missiles heading just forwards when fireing. Battleships should be able to be fitted with searchlight and AA cannons against small frigates!!!
nutbar	Posted - 2006.01.02 07:18:00 - [18] Regardless of whether joysticks are supported or not (with all the keys and mouse work, having to pick up my joystick to do a dogfight would kind of suck, plus I prefer mouse piloting), I think what a lot of people want is freedom of movement. Sure, you can double click a location in space to go there, but how many times has that not worked when an object was where you wanted to go. Allowing a manual control override setting would be very nice. Enable it and we can now move our ship around with our mouse or keyboard (up/down/left/right arrow keys aren't bound to anything... - though I would prefer a/w/s/d) and go anywhere in space freely and easily. Also, a key binding to allow us to click anywhere in space and not have object menu/icons pop up would be very nice. Right now I use ctrl (which will target something when you click on it) to prevent that, but the target locking downside kinda sucks. The best reason to have manual flight control - asteroid fields. I don't know if our ships navigation control has downs syndrome or what, but it's NOT skilled at dodging objects :P
Fallout2man	Posted - 2006.01.02 08:13:00 - [19] Originally by: Jack Amarr you have no idea how many people say, this.....it happens about twice a month. the control system is perfectly suited for eve. you can'y fly dreadnoughts or other alrge ships with a joystick, it simply wouldn't work (as well as the current system) i though that joysticks would be cool when i first started playing as well, but i quickly realised it could get very impracticle. how would you lock onto something with a joystick? how would you warp to a certain deastination? leave the control system alone. its one of the things ccp have perfected How would you lock on? the same way you do in space sims, you cycle targets or "objects" then hit the button you've mapped to lock target. Similarly as far as warping you could probably do the same thing except with objects you can warp to (or optionally binding a "Warp to bookmark X" to a button.) Really though, for us to have joystick-flight we'd need to overhaul fighters and interceptors. There are four kinds of strike craft, Fighters, Bombers, Interceptors and Corvettes. Perhaps you'd maybe be able to pilot a frigate with a joystick but after that it's not practical for efficiency's sake. anyway, they'd have to remove their little "I wanna do my own thing" interceptors and impliment real strike-craft sized interceptors, fighters, and also probably bombers and maybe corvettes if they were generous. Interceptors = anti-strike craft strike craft Fighters = multi-role (good somewhat versus strike craft and against more larger targets) strike craft Bombers = anti-capital ship strike craft (Technically frigates and above are capital ships) Corvettes = anti-strike craft gunboats or extra-powerful anti-capship craft.
M Mother	Posted - 2006.01.02 13:42:00 - [20] I belive people dislike joystick cause they don't have one, and they have no imagination and like the game as it is. I think joystick shouldn't be a must but for some ships an extreme advance. You should be able to have first person flying with joystick if you want; and with a simple buttonpress you get normal 3:rd person, still able to use joystick but unable to aim and therefore better use mouse. Bigger ships should also be able to have first person but no use of a joystik other but making smothe movements.
M Mother	Posted - 2006.01.02 13:45:00 - [21] How ablut small torpedo-launching-ships big as a frigate. able to launch 1 torpedo every 20 sec. the torp is lock farwards so when fireing it you must aim good.
Azzmet Shrapt	Posted - 2006.01.02 20:04:00 - [22] I can't believe this is still open. It doesn't work. You can't have joystick control because the server delay is too long for one, and for two it would generate far too much server traffic to be feaseable. The only games with joystick control are the ones that you host with 8 or so people per game, not 20k. It's not a matter of whether we want to or not, I'd like it, but it just doesn't work. Until we invent FTL com on earth it's just not gonna work.
BrerLapin	Posted - 2006.01.02 20:31:00 - [23] Sigh heids out of arse I think he means hed like to be able to change direction & speed with something other than the mouse The perversity of the Universe tends towards a maximum - O'Toole's Corollary of Finagle's Law
M Mother	Posted - 2006.01.02 23:06:00 - [24] why shouldn't it be possible. each solarsystem is like a diff server as I understand it, normaly flightsimulators can hold at least 32 players online and soon 128 with no problem. Getting simple joystick controls can not be too hard.
NattyDreadlock	Posted - 2006.01.03 01:32:00 - [25] WWIIonline has up to 10k people fighting with dog-fighters, FPS infantry, tanks, boats, etc. Its one presistant world with some where around 300 plus cities on a partial map of western Europe at 1/2 scale. It can handle complex control inputs...so could EVE. The delay in manuvering wouldnt be seen client side, it will be a slight delay for others looking at you manuver from their side, but since weapons accuracy and damage is a in-game spread sheet and roll of the dice any lose of accuracy for those shooting at me would be based on my manuver and its realtive rate of angular motion with respect to the shooter and his turrets ability to track me...not your personal abilty to aim and hit me. Thats also one of teh reason i dont think having frigate and smaller size ships using bore-sight weapons and requiring the player to aim and shoot himself. The joystick control just allows small ships to make use of their main means of survival and thats being highly mobile. Restricting their mobilty to point click and 2D manuvers is just shameful. Watch a old school fleet engagment a what you see are the fast small ships manuvering like crazy and limited to 2D only because their medium for locamotion is 2D. In a 3D medium like space it makes no sense that the evasive manuvers of these vessels arent 3D also. _____________________________ You hit "insert pirate" with a frozen turd right in the eye from your 150mm railgun for 0.0 damage.
Fallout2man	Posted - 2006.01.03 03:28:00 - [26] Originally by: Azzmet Shrapt I can't believe this is still open. It doesn't work. You can't have joystick control because the server delay is too long for one, and for two it would generate far too much server traffic to be feaseable. The only games with joystick control are the ones that you host with 8 or so people per game, not 20k. It's not a matter of whether we want to or not, I'd like it, but it just doesn't work. Until we invent FTL com on earth it's just not gonna work. Once the new cluster comes in and some more optimizations are made I doubt this'll be as much of an issue server side. Plus if you only allow it for small craft there'll probably not be that many. You could make it require a high level skill preventing newbies from using it and therefore keeping the lag down. The fact is this game lacks a critical component of space combat, real strike craft.
Comanche26	Posted - 2006.01.06 23:12:00 - [27] Edited by: Comanche26 on 06/01/2006 23:13:40 Originally by: NattyDreadlock WWIIonline has up to 10k people fighting with dog-fighters, FPS infantry, tanks, boats, etc. Its one presistant world with some where around 300 plus cities on a partial map of western Europe at 1/2 scale. It can handle complex control inputs...so could EVE. The delay in manuvering wouldnt be seen client side, it will be a slight delay for others looking at you manuver from their side, but since weapons accuracy and damage is a in-game spread sheet and roll of the dice any lose of accuracy for those shooting at me would be based on my manuver and its realtive rate of angular motion with respect to the shooter and his turrets ability to track me...not your personal abilty to aim and hit me. Thats also one of teh reason i dont think having frigate and smaller size ships using bore-sight weapons and requiring the player to aim and shoot himself. The joystick control just allows small ships to make use of their main means of survival and thats being highly mobile. Restricting their mobilty to point click and 2D manuvers is just shameful. Watch a old school fleet engagment a what you see are the fast small ships manuvering like crazy and limited to 2D only because their medium for locamotion is 2D. In a 3D medium like space it makes no sense that the evasive manuvers of these vessels arent 3D also. Yes definatly, the server since it is going to be upgraded to a really effective server (hardly any lag CCP says) and as each solar system is in different servers of it's own id immange that including joystick control, whould have little effect on the server overall. It is time to add control to frigates and smaller ships and give THEM the advantage. Whats the point in flying in a small ship that against even a cruiser would get blow up to bits in a matter of seconds? There is none. Including manual control will at least give Frig pod pilots a chance to fight back against larger foes using what the ships were designed for, speed and agility.
Marduk Starkiller	Posted - 2006.01.06 23:31:00 - [28] What if you're running from something and want to shoot the target behind you. How do you do that with the joystick? I think joysticks have no room in this game. The control is just fine as it is. There are a lot of things that need impoved and i don't see this one being one of them.
DarkAgent	Posted - 2006.01.06 23:55:00 - [29] I'd really like to be able to fly my ship with a joystick. But I think it would be best to also make it possible to use the current control. I mean flying a frig or an inty with joystick would be fun but flying a BS yawn. And i would imagine it like only controlling the manuevers of the ship but do the stuff like targetting and activating mods still with the mouse. So you got the joystick in your left and the mouse in your right hand. So make it possible but dont force people to.
Hiigara Soban	Posted - 2006.01.07 01:26:00 - [30] This gets mentioned all the time. Yea it would be cool, but you don't realize how much lag it would cause in a game like this. It wouldnt be possible.

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