| Pages: 1 2 3 :: [one page] |
| Author |
Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 0 post(s) |
Tomus
   |
Posted - 2003.08.18 13:26:00 -
[1]
Is one of the rudest things I have ever read. Considering we are paying customers of this game to be "spoken" to like nothing but a mere bunch of school children is coarse and patronising.
I have been playing the game and enjoying it immenseley for a couple of weeks now but I find that beyond the pale and am seriously reconsidering whether to renew my account. Even though I was no where near what actually happened to speak to your customers in this way is shocking. An explanation and POLITE request would have sufficed.
|
Alexia Te'Len
|
Posted - 2003.08.18 13:27:00 -
[2]
So what about the "paying customers" who talk to CCP, and the Polaris team, in a rude, uncouth and offensive manner? oO
|
Othnark
|
Posted - 2003.08.18 13:28:00 -
[3]
Well damnit man. Do you stop your car, get out, and stomp up and down on roadkill on the side of the road too?
Its done, over, dead, finished. Leave it alone already.
-Othnark
|
NTRabbit
|
Posted - 2003.08.18 13:30:00 -
[4]
[chuckles as he watches Tomus flogging a dead horse]
--------
#eve-online irc.stratics.com - Former official IRC channel (Legacy)
#eve-online irc.coldfront.net - Official Unofficial IRC channel
WE R 4TW! |
Tomus
|
Posted - 2003.08.18 13:31:00 -
[5]
It was the wording and tone of the sticky. Rudeness is uncalled for from whatever angle.
|
cball
|
Posted - 2003.08.18 13:38:00 -
[6]
  Quote:
Is one of the rudest things I have ever read. Considering we are paying customers of this game to be "spoken" to like nothing but a mere bunch of school children is coarse and patronising.
I have been playing the game and enjoying it immenseley for a couple of weeks now but I find that beyond the pale and am seriously reconsidering whether to renew my account. Even though I was no where near what actually happened to speak to your customers in this way is shocking. An explanation and POLITE request would have sufficed.
Well by you posting this message, you fall into that catagory.
The GM's are forced to be BLUNT when dealing with 'children' that can't seem to follow the rules, or listen to the 'polite' chats while in the game..
Now go cry to your mommy and stop whining in here.
...fear the evil monkey in your hanger...
|
Luther Pendragon
|
Posted - 2003.08.18 13:38:00 -
[7]
You are misinterpreting rudeness for firmness.
____________________________________
Taggart wants YOU. Join TTi!
*waves his hand in your face in the jedi way* |
slacker
|
Posted - 2003.08.18 13:39:00 -
[8]
Edited by: slacker on 18/08/2003 13:39:59
Got to say I agree.
They RP everything - so when you read the news you often cannot understand exactly what the real technical problem is through all the RP spin.
Then a female GM gets wasted in game (fair game when GMs have tried to attack paying players before).
The response from the other GMs is to try and show off by hauling Ywev to Polaris.
I don't agree with piracy, but the GMs should be more responsible and RP a situation properly and not behave as they have in this instance.
CCP need to introduce a court and appeal system.
--
slacker |
Gonada
|
Posted - 2003.08.18 13:40:00 -
[9]
Dear GM's.
If you are going to present yourself in the game, have GOD MODE turned on.
If you are too stoopid to do this , well if you get killed podded you are only to blame yourself.
If you think that all the people playing online games are going to heed a threat, then you are sadly mistaken.
Every online game has gm's, and all have god mode. do yourself a favor and turn it on.
|
Quantum Gopher
|
Posted - 2003.08.18 13:50:00 -
[10]
Edited by: Quantum Gopher on 18/08/2003 13:57:29
The way I read the "Attacking GMs Message":
They are there to do a job, not play the game. If you interfere with them, you risk repercussions. In short, don't attack them. It would also probably be a good idea not to attack others around them as they may be trying to solve a problem that requires the GM's presence in the game. Some problems need to be solved from a player's point of view.
I believe a temp-ban would be justified for the duration of the situation for players that interfere. Be happy that the GMs don't disable all offensive/defensive modules while they're in the sector (assuming that isn't too difficult to implement).
Edit: I refer to official on duty GMs, with the GM title in their name. Characters played by the GMs (Concord Special Forces etc) are an entirely different subject and not related to this situation.
Q. Gopher
__________
I know...it's only ROCK and roll, but I like it!! |
Ubiq
|
Posted - 2003.08.18 13:51:00 -
[11]
Edited by: Ubiq on 18/08/2003 13:52:09
Quote:
Dear GM's.
If you are going to present yourself in the game, have GOD MODE turned on.
If you are too stoopid to do this , well if you get killed podded you are only to blame yourself.
....
I didn't find it rude. I found the above rude and ingnorant.
|
Tomus
|
Posted - 2003.08.18 13:52:00 -
[12]
Quote:
Now go cry to your mommy and stop whining in here.
Nice.
|
slacker
|
Posted - 2003.08.18 13:55:00 -
[13]
Edited by: slacker on 18/08/2003 13:55:18
Quote:
They are there to do a job, not play the game. If you interfere with them, you risk repercussions. In short, don't attack them. It
It was only 3 weeks ago that a couple of GMs warped into a blockade and if I remember correctly PvP'd a BS.
You can't have it both ways.
--
slacker |
Alexia Te'Len
|
Posted - 2003.08.18 13:56:00 -
[14]
Quote:
Dear GM's.
If you are going to present yourself in the game, have GOD MODE turned on.
If you are too stoopid to do this , well if you get killed podded you are only to blame yourself.
If you think that all the people playing online games are going to heed a threat, then you are sadly mistaken.
Every online game has gm's, and all have god mode. do yourself a favor and turn it on.
If they had God mode on, people (Especially those that see fit to interfere with the help system by attacking GMs) would just complain and shout about how "unfair" things were.
|
Ertai Vodalion
|
Posted - 2003.08.18 14:01:00 -
[15]
I hate to say it this way - but if you approach the situation from Moo¦s point of view:
some time ago a few GM¦s in Battleships warped to their Gate-Blokade and tried to shoot the hell out of them (they killed and podded 1 of them) - the rest got away
now yesterday a GM in a non Polaris ship approaches Moo Blockade - and they are not allowed to fire ?? Hmm - strange bending of "Rules" isn¦t it ?
Me in Ywev¦s Position I would have Podkilled the GM same as he did - although i¦m not a Moo-Luver)
How could Ywev know the difference ? The GM could have been on a roleplaying event again and as soon as being in optimal range open fire on Ywev ..... (as has been done by GM¦s before)
|
Quantum Gopher
|
Posted - 2003.08.18 14:02:00 -
[16]
Edited by: Quantum Gopher on 18/08/2003 14:09:02
Quote:
Edited by: slacker on 18/08/2003 13:55:18
Quote:
They are there to do a job, not play the game. If you interfere with them, you risk repercussions. In short, don't attack them. It
It was only 3 weeks ago that a couple of GMs warped into a blockade and if I remember correctly PvP'd a BS.
You can't have it both ways.
I believe they were there to serve as a game function...that being serving as security forces. They weren't there as GMs but as Concord Special Forces...and hence attackable (as if anyone actually had a chance against them in those ships at the time  ) since they were role playing those forces. It's a different situation.
Logging on with a GM in their title is an indication they are there in an official capacity and not role playing.
Edit: Bad...bad grammar. Bad spelling too. Bad Gopher.
Q. Gopher
__________
I know...it's only ROCK and roll, but I like it!! |
slacker
|
Posted - 2003.08.18 14:09:00 -
[17]
Some clarification needs to be made.
1) When GMs are in a killing / role playing or moderating capacity.
2) Stop non GMs from apparently being able to call a charater "GM Name"
3) If GMs are moderating - they use invincible ships.
--
slacker |
Quantum Gopher
|
Posted - 2003.08.18 14:29:00 -
[18]
I don't think ANY player should be able to create a name with GM as the first two letters.
I think any player that isn't a GM that has GM in the front of their name should be banned as they are obviously trying to impersonate a Game Master.
I've seen a corporation with the ticker name of GM, but that's a different story as it's not permanent part of the character's name.
Q. Gopher
__________
I know...it's only ROCK and roll, but I like it!! |
Indigo Seqi
|
Posted - 2003.08.18 14:42:00 -
[19]
Edited by: Indigo Seqi on 18/08/2003 14:43:06
I love it when people go over the top when they react to silly stuff. Quitting your own fun because a GM says something "rude"? That's like saying "This new BMW commercial is so offensive, I'm going to the nearest cliff and push my Z3 over the edge out of spite".
kekeke
|
Klydor
|
Posted - 2003.08.18 14:48:00 -
[20]
Call me stupid but why arn't GM ships just made invulnerable? Give them 1 billion armour, sheild and hull points. Make them indestructable.
Every mud I've ever played on that had in game GM's to help out newbies all had immortal characters.
This allows the GM to sort problems safely. It also means that GM's would not be attacked as the outcome would be very one sided.
Why not do that rather than tell players not to attack an in game ship??
|
Ywev
|
Posted - 2003.08.18 14:55:00 -
[21]
Yes, i remember the bships they sent in after us, they pod'd a member of m0o. Oh, but now, we can't shoot them, does this sound like double standards? I think so.
Link to private GM conversation removed, c.f. Forum Rule #7. -- Mandos
Pod ya later..
Ywev
|
Tigersbane
|
Posted - 2003.08.18 14:56:00 -
[22]
I gotta say that before this incident there were no official announcements about GMs not being "fair game"
I seem to remember a m0o had GM Ravenwing's corpse and no one ever said "oi you cant do that"
Seems line one rule for one group and another for everyone else
The playing field keeps changing as do the rules for the game.
|
Singular
|
Posted - 2003.08.18 15:01:00 -
[23]
Jesus, they are turning this game into a joke...
Im Yo Huckleberreh |
Ywev
|
Posted - 2003.08.18 15:04:00 -
[24]
Link to private GM conversation removed, c.f. Forum Rule #7. -- Mandos
seems my post get deleted right away, there is the storry unedited
Pod ya later..
Ywev
|
Turrak
|
Posted - 2003.08.18 15:05:00 -
[25]
Link to private GM conversation removed, c.f. Forum Rule #7. -- Mandos
seems my post get deleted right away, there is the storry unedited
Ore Inspection Team 1
Surveyor of fine ores.
|
Jojin
|
Posted - 2003.08.18 15:06:00 -
[26]
GMs shouldnÆt been seen at all by the general public; a true godlike state. I cannot think of many situations where they are involved which would require a physical presence in the game.
It makes it hard for players, who want to live the fantasy and to enjoy the game to see individuals named GM xxxx flying around in ships. Knowing the whole time these arenÆt players and there are special people who you cannot attack and have super powers. It would be like driving along and seeing Supreme Being fly by you in a Ferrari, with a bumper sticker saying, ôItÆs hip to be almighty.ö Most people just couldnÆt cope and chaos would ensue.
GMs, if required to interact within the game, should use alter egos so the general population is oblivious to their presence.
Yeah, I know it is just a game, but half of the fun is to be able to get away.
|
StoreSlem
|
Posted - 2003.08.18 15:06:00 -
[27]
GM's have earlier demonstrated how they are "in-game" and therefore should be considered fair game to anyone up for the hunt.
However the GM's sticky have changed this, but as Ywev podded the GM before this was posted, I think he's entitled to have the corpse back, a little gift for his wasted time in polaris + a personal apology from the GM's.
|
Ywev
|
Posted - 2003.08.18 15:07:00 -
[28]
Link to private GM conversation removed, c.f. Forum Rule #7. -- Mandos
the link
Pod ya later..
Ywev
|
StoreSlem
|
Posted - 2003.08.18 15:08:00 -
[29]
Quote:
seems my post get deleted right away, there is the storry unedited
Hahaha, we have your alt now :)
|
Luc Boye
|
Posted - 2003.08.18 15:10:00 -
[30]
Edited by: Luc Boye on 18/08/2003 15:10:58
Edited by: Luc Boye on 18/08/2003 15:10:27
This is all funny, looks to me like there is 2 major groups of players in Eve:
1.) People (myself included) that grew up on starcraft, warcraft, quake or any other game where PvP was the point of the game. Mining, trading, gatecamping, convoyraiding, farming, etc. are just means to obtaing the gear for PvP, exploration or whatever.
2.) People that grew up on SIMS and are now happy that their Ken and Barbie can fly spaceships. They just wanna warp all day and pop some roids. They hate those nasty people firing at them.
When I read the description on the box I thought the game was made for the 1st group, since Sims Online was well and alive
Too bad GM's are becoming Ken and Barbies themselves.
--
2004.12.29 23:33:40combatMining Pollution Cloud hits you, doing 140.0 damage. |
Tomus
|
Posted - 2003.08.18 15:13:00 -
[31]
Quote:
Edited by: Indigo Seqi on 18/08/2003 14:43:06
I love it when people go over the top when they react to silly stuff. Quitting your own fun because a GM says something "rude"? That's like saying "This new BMW commercial is so offensive, I'm going to the nearest cliff and push my Z3 over the edge out of spite".
kekeke
If I didn't like the company ethos then I probably wouldn't have bought a Z3 in the first place. And if their customer service was as rude as this lot then I probably wouldn't buy another.
|
DATEK
|
Posted - 2003.08.18 15:17:00 -
[32]
Edited by: DATEK on 18/08/2003 15:17:40
The GMs are in the game to help make it a more enjoyable experience for all of us. They deserve our thanks and respect. It is just plain common decency to not attack GMs, pod kill them, and then play childish 'haha I've got your corpse, what are ya gonna give me for it' games. Perhaps more aggressive use of bans and other penalties with obnoxious and disruptive players in the future would reduce incidents of this nature and make EVE a more enjoyable experience for all.
DATEK
CEO, Frog Morton Industries |
Paddyman
|
Posted - 2003.08.18 15:30:00 -
[33]
Quote:
Edited by: DATEK on 18/08/2003 15:17:40
It is just plain common decency to not attack GMs, pod kill them, and then play childish 'haha I've got your corpse, what are ya gonna give me for it' games.
DATEK, u can argue this point in reverse aswell, how come the gms were allowed to attack m0o b4, if sum1 attacks you once its perfectly reasonable and plain common sense to assume they will do it again sumtime, they cant wait to be fired upon to then wait 5 seconds to lock then start returning fire, corpse are made as biomass for tech lvl 4 or 5, and as trophies to the ppl u kill, its not fair that a GM can tell u that he doesnt like his trophy been displayed around so he wants it back, and the fact that banning was implied is a complete abuse of power for a player defending himself against possible(and past proven) attack.
|
Ywev
|
Posted - 2003.08.18 15:31:00 -
[34]
Quote:
Edited by: DATEK on 18/08/2003 15:17:40
The GMs are in the game to help make it a more enjoyable experience for all of us. They deserve our thanks and respect. It is just plain common decency to not attack GMs, pod kill them, and then play childish 'haha I've got your corpse, what are ya gonna give me for it' games. Perhaps more aggressive use of bans and other penalties with obnoxious and disruptive players in the future would reduce incidents of this nature and make EVE a more enjoyable experience for all.
So when they pop'd out several bs's to move m0o out of mara that was making the game fun? So when they pod'd the reverend, that was fun? Why have double standards now? They used thier concord ships on us, concord is concord, and attackable element in the game.
Pod ya later..
Ywev
|
Ctaesis
|
Posted - 2003.08.18 15:38:00 -
[35]
Mandos, is this the correct @#$% thread to post in ffs? You've deleted my post about 3 times today. So bugger off.. because I'm going to post it again.
Quote:
You've got to be kidding me.
If you want to not be shot at, ask the devs to make it not possible to lock GM ships.
Don't come to the forum and post some plea for not being shot at, it won't be effective at all. This is a problem that should be resolved from a design perspective not a customer perspective. So go talk to Hellmar.
________________
"Warp to Desktop" -- American PCGamer
|
Jash Illian
|
Posted - 2003.08.18 15:38:00 -
[36]
Pretty soon a break will form between CCP and the disgruntled players. What's occured so far is pretty mild compared to what goes on when that happens.
I mean its like you want corporations to oblige each other like its sex or something. Pffft I would rather **** my enemy.- Rohann
Be careful out there. That other guy waiting in the queue for the gate MIGHT be a baby-munching frock-burner, YOU JUST DON'T KNOW!- Lallante |
StealthNet
|
Posted - 2003.08.18 15:45:00 -
[37]
Quote:
Is one of the rudest things I have ever read. Considering we are paying customers of this game to be "spoken" to like nothing but a mere bunch of school children is coarse and patronising.
I have been playing the game and enjoying it immenseley for a couple of weeks now but I find that beyond the pale and am seriously reconsidering whether to renew my account. Even though I was no where near what actually happened to speak to your customers in this way is shocking. An explanation and POLITE request would have sufficed.
People are not being paid to listen to BS. I wonder why lots of people think that, because they pay for a service, they have the right to insult the guys who deliver the service, or do anything they might think of, no matter if it will harm the right of another player.
If you really think that because you are paying for this service, you may do whatever you want, please, leave.
_______________________________________________
|
Tomus
|
Posted - 2003.08.18 15:56:00 -
[38]
Edited by: Tomus on 18/08/2003 15:58:56
Quote:
People are not being paid to listen to BS. I wonder why lots of people think that, because they pay for a service, they have the right to insult the guys who deliver the service, or do anything they might think of, no matter if it will harm the right of another player.
If you really think that because you are paying for this service, you may do whatever you want, please, leave.
I've never been rude to them. So should every player on here be spoken to in the same way because of a few people?
I don't think so. Buh Bye.
|
Kiran Kidashuen
|
Posted - 2003.08.18 16:02:00 -
[39]
ok in response to "We pay so we can do and act as we please" Attitudes hear this
In NYC there is public transportation that costs 1.50 per fare.
Now when you pay that 1.50 and get on the "PUBLIC TRANSPORTATION" You are NOT allowed to yell and scream like a lunatic. You are NOT allowed to throw whatever propaganda all over the subways.
"But we paid" Yes we paid for the service provided. Not to bicker and complain and deface CCP. The situiation has gone from critisim to all out anti CCPism (If there is such a thing)
Just because we pay for the service doesn't mean we can do whatever we want with it.
|
StealthNet
|
Posted - 2003.08.18 16:02:00 -
[40]
Quote:
Edited by: Tomus on 18/08/2003 15:58:56
Quote:
People are not being paid to listen to BS. I wonder why lots of people think that, because they pay for a service, they have the right to insult the guys who deliver the service, or do anything they might think of, no matter if it will harm the right of another player.
If you really think that because you are paying for this service, you may do whatever you want, please, leave.
I've never been rude to them. So should every player on here be spoken to in the same way because of a few people?
I don't think so. Buh Bye.
The hat fits pretty well on your head !
I was not talking about any1 specifically. But feel free to express yourself. What I had to say is up there. BTW, I actually read the forum rules too.
_______________________________________________
|
Guardian334
|
Posted - 2003.08.18 16:05:00 -
[41]
If GMs, wearing their GM tags, using GM ships, really did attack a group of players (even pirates, sigh, bastard pirates are players too I suppose); then LAYING DOWN THE LAW on players attacking GMs is a really sad powergamer fit.
IMO, obviously. Can't have it both ways. Either this attack that supposedly happened against M00 occurred and that means GMs are in-game, or it didn't and players attacking GMs is equally as bad as a player punching a referee in football (either kind).
And on another note, the static between Devs/GMs and Players is starting to get as bad as it was in Everquest years 2 and 3, and that's really really bad. Players should not be ****s, and that goes as well for everyone else involved in the game. Cut it out.
|
Alexia Te'Len
|
Posted - 2003.08.18 16:07:00 -
[42]
It would seem people have forgotten just _why_ the GMs broke Moo's "blockade". 
|
Guardian334
|
Posted - 2003.08.18 16:14:00 -
[43]
If action needs to be taken use the GM god powers to do so, or change persona (tag and ship) if an in-game method of taking action is preferred. Taking in-game action wearing UNTOUCHABLE gm tags is A Bad Idea, speaking as a long time gamer.
I don't support Pirates nor do I support prima donna crap like I'm reading on the boards today; but as a player, if I'm going to be attacked by GM ships sometimes, I have to know WITHOUT A DOUBT when it occurs what I'm allowed to do. Nothing is not a valid action if I'm playing and suddenly am attacked in-game.
My objection is utterly about the tag issue; if acting as a rpg element, change tags. If acting as a game authority, use gm. In-game attacking of players by game-authorities is something I've seen many times in live action rpgs (look it up if you only understand computer games) and is the fastest way possible to destroy a game. Corrective actions designed to fix or solve problems with players should not occur in-game (i.e., on camera), but out-of-game.
|
Tomus
|
Posted - 2003.08.18 16:22:00 -
[44]
Quote:
ok in response to "We pay so we can do and act as we please" Attitudes hear this
In NYC there is public transportation that costs 1.50 per fare.
Now when you pay that 1.50 and get on the "PUBLIC TRANSPORTATION" You are NOT allowed to yell and scream like a lunatic. You are NOT allowed to throw whatever propaganda all over the subways.
"But we paid" Yes we paid for the service provided. Not to bicker and complain and deface CCP. The situiation has gone from critisim to all out anti CCPism (If there is such a thing)
Just because we pay for the service doesn't mean we can do whatever we want with it.
Would you expect then because a few people had been rude to subway staff that they could speak to you as they so desired?
|
Jash Illian
|
Posted - 2003.08.18 16:33:00 -
[45]
Quote:
It would seem people have forgotten just _why_ the GMs broke Moo's "blockade".
Because they had established a blockade in .4 space and were killing anything in sight. The GMs broke the blockade because people complained vicously about it. This was before the big can debate btw.
I mean its like you want corporations to oblige each other like its sex or something. Pffft I would rather **** my enemy.- Rohann
Be careful out there. That other guy waiting in the queue for the gate MIGHT be a baby-munching frock-burner, YOU JUST DON'T KNOW!- Lallante |
undercover
|
Posted - 2003.08.18 16:55:00 -
[46]
Talk about been OTT. A GM asks for his corpse back and Ywev says no.
A GM out ranks Ywev in my opinion and Ywev takes it too far.
Then nearly everyone jumps on the band wagon complaining about how harsh the GMs are, double standards by CCP etc.
Live with it.
|
drunkenmaster
|
Posted - 2003.08.18 16:57:00 -
[47]
Quote:
Quote:
It would seem people have forgotten just _why_ the GMs broke Moo's "blockade".
Because they had established a blockade in .4 space and were killing anything in sight. The GMs broke the blockade because people complained vicously about it. This was before the big can debate btw.
Unless I'm mistaken*, this was around the time when there were no clones, and people were getting their skills rolled back a week by m0o.
I can't remember if the GM's used their 'GM <name>' accounts though. I thought they went in as 'the four'.
.
|
Kiran Kidashuen
|
Posted - 2003.08.18 16:59:00 -
[48]
My dear Tomas
Have you ever been to NYC?? If you are rude to one of the station conductors for instance they will simply close their little station door and ignore you.
If you are rude to them what makes you think they will bow down to you??
Like I said before they offer a service. If you are rude to a cop you either get a summons or jail for really bad offences.
I don't exactly agree that it is right but this is the real world we all live in.
Deal with it!!
|
Alexia Te'Len
|
Posted - 2003.08.18 17:13:00 -
[49]
Quote:
Because they had established a blockade in .4 space and were killing anything in sight. The GMs broke the blockade because people complained vicously about it. This was before the big can debate btw.
Precisely.
Moo did something that disrupted the enjoyment of a large amount of people, the GMs, not using their "GM (Name)" accounts sorted the problem out within a Roleplay context.
You cannot compare that to what V is doing.
V attacked and destroyed a GM _while that GM was on the way to help someone_, he was not Roleplaying, he has not justified why he did this and, above all, he came running to the forums to brag about the kill while complaining about having the "corpse" stripped off of him.
|
calliope
|
Posted - 2003.08.18 17:17:00 -
[50]
Edited by: calliope on 18/08/2003 17:18:26
I've been playing for about a month (not much by eve standards, but I'm not a complete noob).
I play the game, I join in I read the forums.
I have, until this post not seen anything anywhere that indicated that someone with a name that started with the letters "GM" was a GM and not simply a player character with an interesting nomenclature.
If it is to be made a punishable 'offence' to attack a GM, it should be blatantly obvious that it is not permitted. Posting on the forums doesn't count - I know many players who don't regularly read them.
If a GM is roleplaying it should be clear that they are and they should be targetable.
If a GM is trying to reproduce a bug and perhaps god-mode is not an option (as they are trying to replicate a player experience and god-mode would contaminate the result) they should have a dirty great big tag saying "GM bug hunting, pod me and get banned".
If the GMs want us to obey these rules (something I have absolutely nothing against) then it must be easy for us to do so.
What is permissible must be clear and unambiguous. Make it hard for people and they'll get confused and they'll shoot first, ask questions later.
|
NeoMorph
|
Posted - 2003.08.18 17:22:00 -
[51]
LOL - this all reminds me of when something similar happened in UO and someone got hold of a GM robe and tried to sell it on Ebay.
Whoever said the thing about having invincible ships is totally correct. All GMs responding to a petition type call should be in one and also have something like "GM Thingy (invincible)" as their names to show they are not part of the action.
As for when they ARE part of the action then they should use names that DONT have GM in front and not fly the invincible ships.... simple as that.
You will never stop everyone shooting at what people think is a possible target and not everyone reads these boards. When I was a counsellor for UO I got attacked by reds (think player pirates) during calls on more than one occasion. I just laughed and vanished.
I'm not blaming CCP (it's their first MMOG) but I really think they need to get in touch with a team of experienced MMOG runners who have done this sort of thing for a few years. A lot of these whoopsies just sound like inexperience to me.
-------------------------------------------
<Stavros> the first motor bike i ever rode
<Stavros> was a honda gold wing
<Ak-Gara> hah
<Stavros> |
Zell
|
Posted - 2003.08.18 17:45:00 -
[52]
Priceless!!!
Moo camps gates, because they "can", tells all to get tactics/equipment/allies blah blah blah, and to suck it up.
GM's pwnd Mookidd, because they "can", mookidd jumps up and down and crys foul..
Suck it up boyeeeeeeee'
Reap what you sow..
ROFLMFAO
"A coward dies a thousand times, the brave die just once.." |
Daan
|
Posted - 2003.08.18 17:51:00 -
[53]
Quote:
Priceless!!!
Moo camps gates, because they "can", tells all to get tactics/equipment/allies blah blah blah, and to suck it up.
GM's pwnd Mookidd, because they "can", mookidd jumps up and down and crys foul..
Suck it up boyeeeeeeee'
Reap what you sow..
ROFLMFAO
euh? who pwns who? afaik its the corpse of a gm, I must be going blind 
|
Da5id
|
Posted - 2003.08.18 17:53:00 -
[54]
Edited by: Da5id on 18/08/2003 17:54:00
Tomus there is a difference between someone being rude and someone speaking clearly and decisively.
|
Zell
|
Posted - 2003.08.18 17:56:00 -
[55]
Who has the corpse, mookidds?
eh?
eh?
thought so..
"A coward dies a thousand times, the brave die just once.." |
plur
|
Posted - 2003.08.18 18:06:00 -
[56]
Basically, what the GM's did, is get their ego bruised the ABUSE their powers to BULLY a player.
Shame on you Grimmi and Xhadren. i hope you are reprimanded or even loose your jobs.
you are in your role to PREVENT people exploiting and bullying, NOT to do it yourselves. you disgust me.
if i had been at a gate and GM's came to attack me, not once... but TWICe (second time using concord battleships) then another GM came to a gate i was at... to right id bloody shoot him.
are we supposed to right click and wait 2 days for the player info to show up, because of your uber laggy servers, just to make sure they arent in polaris or a GM every time we shoot someone from now on?
BITE ME.
why couldnt you go to the gate in a polaris frigate? you can spawn anything in the game or use god mode!
i bet it was deliberate, you knew you would be shot at. anyone who had been attacked twice before by GM's would do the same. you knew full well you would be fired on (you could have always run off!) but no.. you sat there and allowed yourself to be pod killed then bullied a player.
its not like you have worked a month for the ship, then lost it to a bug or unstable server, then get told "sorry aint replacing it" even when your buddy has had the same thing happen to them and got their replaced.
inconsistent, bullying, self important, pretentious GM's
i WILL shoot at you if i see you, because your actions have deserved it, dont like it? use god mode then. 
|
Graffix
|
Posted - 2003.08.18 18:12:00 -
[57]
I think if the GM's are going to be in game doing whatever it they have to do, they should have special GM tags and are invinceable, but at the same time, have no guns. therefore they cant attack and are of no threat to any pirates who might be on edge when they see GM's in the system. If GM's are going to roleplay, they should do it in the form of Concord or the Jovians so that there is no confusion as to whether they are fair game or not. And if they are in the form of Concord or the Jovians they deserve any treatment given to them. If the GM's that play concord or the jovians have next to godly skills etc. the comunity has the right to call foul or bloody murder, if they can shoot and not be fired apon while roleplaying, or take next to nothing in damage, theres a problem.
|
Zell
|
Posted - 2003.08.18 18:13:00 -
[58]
Ready kidds??
Sing it with me..
"I fought the law, and the, law won.."
Don't like it, don't play, don't make excuses...
Ive never been attacked by a GM, but hey, im not a grief---, er pirate.
"A coward dies a thousand times, the brave die just once.." |
plur
|
Posted - 2003.08.18 18:15:00 -
[59]
Zell, what they are saying is this:
If the GM's decide to get out their ubder concord ships and go attakc players again they can, AND the players arent allowed to fire back or they get banned.
zell, go back to your veldspar and be quiet.
|
Kimi
|
Posted - 2003.08.18 18:16:00 -
[60]
"I have, until this post not seen anything anywhere that indicated that someone with a name that started with the letters "GM" was a GM and not simply a player character with an interesting nomenclature.."
Regardless of any other considerations, that is NOT well known. And despite the post, I was not aware that it was an offense to attack a GM - and I have played since beta 6 and follow the boards here quite often.
If there are any more rules that we should know about, perhaps they also should be posted.
|
Ubiq
|
Posted - 2003.08.18 18:19:00 -
[61]
They put a sticky on this board about GM names. The guy was only asking for his corpse back, rightfully so.
Quote:
[ 2003.08.16 20:29:48 ] Ywev > we have always shot at gm;s he was already pod'd by time he asked to not be shot
|
Colibri
|
Posted - 2003.08.18 18:21:00 -
[62]
Tomus, if that is the rudest thing you have ever read, then you lead an extremely sheltered life and have fortunately never interacted with many paying customers (i.e. fellow players) who sometimes seem to enjoy elevating rudeness to an artform.
The post by the GM on this forum was not rude but clearly explained the position by the GMs on this issue in a manner that tried to prevent misunderstandings or people trying to use a "legal loophole".
It should be common sense to not attack a GM in any game but, unfortunately, common sense is very rare these days.
|
Jash Illian
|
Posted - 2003.08.18 18:21:00 -
[63]
Quote:
ok in response to "We pay so we can do and act as we please" Attitudes hear this
In NYC there is public transportation that costs 1.50 per fare.
Now when you pay that 1.50 and get on the "PUBLIC TRANSPORTATION" You are NOT allowed to yell and scream like a lunatic. You are NOT allowed to throw whatever propaganda all over the subways.
"But we paid" Yes we paid for the service provided. Not to bicker and complain and deface CCP. The situiation has gone from critisim to all out anti CCPism (If there is such a thing)
Just because we pay for the service doesn't mean we can do whatever we want with it.
And in NYC, your taxes pay to fund the police department. The people responsible for enforcing the laws that govern the city. If you have a complaint you can file that complaint at any police station, speaking with an officer and not an email box. You can also participate in public forums where such concerns are addressed without censorship of the content of the complaint. Only the manner in which it's issued.
So what's your point and which analogy fits better?
I mean its like you want corporations to oblige each other like its sex or something. Pffft I would rather **** my enemy.- Rohann
Be careful out there. That other guy waiting in the queue for the gate MIGHT be a baby-munching frock-burner, YOU JUST DON'T KNOW!- Lallante |
Indesin
|
Posted - 2003.08.18 18:24:00 -
[64]
I'm not really that surprised. The level of customer service needs to improve.
|
Jash Illian
|
Posted - 2003.08.18 18:24:00 -
[65]
Quote:
They put a sticky on this board about GM names. The guy was only asking for his corpse back, rightfully so.
Quote:
[ 2003.08.16 20:29:48 ] Ywev > we have always shot at gm;s he was already pod'd by time he asked to not be shot
No, the guy that was killed wasn't the one 'asking' for anything. It was another GM. And the GM doing the 'asking' started with an implied threat of banning. That doesn't make it a question. That makes it a demand. Ywev didn't have a chance to be a pita before being threatened.
Given that situation, I find it reasonable that any further discussion to head downhill from that point. Threats are the last resort, not the first one.
I mean its like you want corporations to oblige each other like its sex or something. Pffft I would rather **** my enemy.- Rohann
Be careful out there. That other guy waiting in the queue for the gate MIGHT be a baby-munching frock-burner, YOU JUST DON'T KNOW!- Lallante |
Zell
|
Posted - 2003.08.18 18:27:00 -
[66]
Quote:
Zell, what they are saying is this:
If the GM's decide to get out their ubder concord ships and go attakc players again they can, AND the players arent allowed to fire back or they get banned
=========
Oh, so what you are saying is you have no recourse, should events unfold contray to your liking, and you feel you should have had "some kinda chance" to effect the outcome..
Kinda like 20 BB's ganking ibis's in Aunenen?
See a pattern developing Scully?
Its ok for others to do things, because they "can" without considering if they "should" And now that the roles are reversed, its unacceptable?
Why because they have a GM tag?
Or
Because they don't have a pirate tag...
zell, go back to your veldspar and be quiet.
ooooooh the pain of such a rapier sharp..whatever it was.
"A coward dies a thousand times, the brave die just once.." |
DrGonzo
|
Posted - 2003.08.18 18:43:00 -
[67]
Uh GM's...is this one really all that tough? When playing as a GM...become indestructable.
After all...you are a GM, you should have that power.
Done...fixed....now carry on, there's nothing to see here.
|
Ubiq
|
Posted - 2003.08.18 18:46:00 -
[68]
Quote:
No, the guy that was killed wasn't the one 'asking' for anything. It was another GM. And the GM doing the 'asking' started with an implied threat of banning. That doesn't make it a question. That makes it a demand. Ywev didn't have a chance to be a pita before being threatened.
Given that situation, I find it reasonable that any further discussion to head downhill from that point. Threats are the last resort, not the first one.
Please, the GM was polite. How many times does he have to ask for the corpse back. Talking to yuen is like talking to a brick wall.
|
var'ulfur
|
Posted - 2003.08.18 18:52:00 -
[69]
 omg somone was talked to rudly who cares if you cant take a ruse word from somone you better go back and live with your mom you want rude come whining to me in the game ill show you rude
talk is cheap the cost of action is enormus
|
StealthNet
|
Posted - 2003.08.18 19:01:00 -
[70]
Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
It would seem people have forgotten just _why_ the GMs broke Moo's "blockade".
Because they had established a blockade in .4 space and were killing anything in sight. The GMs broke the blockade because people complained vicously about it. This was before the big can debate btw.
Unless I'm mistaken*, this was around the time when there were no clones, and people were getting their skills rolled back a week by m0o.
I can't remember if the GM's used their 'GM <name>' accounts though. I thought they went in as 'the four'.
They didn't. They roleplayed as CONCORD pilots.
_______________________________________________
|
drunkenmaster
|
Posted - 2003.08.18 19:09:00 -
[71]
Edited by: drunkenmaster on 18/08/2003 19:09:15
thanks for that stealth. my memory ain't what it used to be. |
StealthNet
|
Posted - 2003.08.18 19:11:00 -
[72]
Quote:
Quote:
They put a sticky on this board about GM names. The guy was only asking for his corpse back, rightfully so.
Quote:
[ 2003.08.16 20:29:48 ] Ywev > we have always shot at gm;s he was already pod'd by time he asked to not be shot
No, the guy that was killed wasn't the one 'asking' for anything. It was another GM. And the GM doing the 'asking' started with an implied threat of banning. That doesn't make it a question. That makes it a demand. Ywev didn't have a chance to be a pita before being threatened.
Given that situation, I find it reasonable that any further discussion to head downhill from that point. Threats are the last resort, not the first one.
I think that what you are failing to understand is the fact that if a GM asks for something, you MUST give it no matter what. Threat to ban ? Do you think that the "entity" that demanded that corpse is another player ? Does the player in question (asked about the item) had ANY doubt about the GM procedence (did he really think that the GM was a player) ?
Worse, did the aforementioned player had ANY doubts about the procedence of the GM he podded (did he REALLY think it was a player instead of a GM) ?
In face of these FACTS, if a GM demands for an item and the player does not give it to him, the GM has the right to ban as he see fit. Take the Tank CEO issue as an example. If the GM banned the player WITHOUT ANY warnings, I would not be here writing this. But this is a complete different issue, the player has been warned about it, and refused to give the item. That's not a case for a possible ban, it's a case for a ban period.
I wonder if these guys are sick of griefing players, and are now trying to grief the staff.
_______________________________________________
|
Jash Illian
|
Posted - 2003.08.18 19:15:00 -
[73]
Quote:
Quote:
No, the guy that was killed wasn't the one 'asking' for anything. It was another GM. And the GM doing the 'asking' started with an implied threat of banning. That doesn't make it a question. That makes it a demand. Ywev didn't have a chance to be a pita before being threatened.
Given that situation, I find it reasonable that any further discussion to head downhill from that point. Threats are the last resort, not the first one.
Please, the GM was polite. How many times does he have to ask for the corpse back. Talking to yuen is like talking to a brick wall.
Politely threatening. You summon a player and the first thing you say isn't a question but a demand. Ywev wasn't asked for anything. An implied threat followed immediately.
What happened is among one of the least diplomatic ways of handling the situation. Threats are the last resort, not the first. Quite simply if the situation had been approached from a diplomatic angle, Ywev wouldn't have had a leg to stand on for refusing.
But I, and a lot of the people I know, respond very poorly to threats whether they are explicit or implicit. So I see no reason to expect the situation to have gone smoothly when the conversation started with a demand and a threat.
I mean its like you want corporations to oblige each other like its sex or something. Pffft I would rather **** my enemy.- Rohann
Be careful out there. That other guy waiting in the queue for the gate MIGHT be a baby-munching frock-burner, YOU JUST DON'T KNOW!- Lallante |
Kristopher Michael
|
Posted - 2003.08.18 19:22:00 -
[74]
Alright, were as I do agree that the sticky note was a bit unpolitical at best, the GM's have every right to be as gruff as they want to be, they are the one's who are setting the flavor of the game for us. However, I do also feel that for all fairness and for role playing sake, the GM's shouldn't enter space without expecting to get shot, it ruins the Role playing.
Instead of playing as your charcter, you have to be a player, and go, "That's the gm's ship, i can't shoot it, even though my charcter would totally do it as per his background story!"
I'm not trying to be arguementative by any means to either the GM's or the players, but I do have a suggestion as a storytller for a game I run.
Game Masters, if you enter space to help fix a players problem, play a ship that will intimidate anyone, that way they wont attack it. -or- appear in a station and have the player coem tot he station, (I do relaize that not all problems can be fixed this way, so refer to step one)
Do you attack a player, but expect them not to attack you? That's just plain cruel. There are no double standards when you gm, ever. True you can have a ship that can blow anyoen apart no problem, and thats acceptable, but allowing them not to attack you. Thats unfair. This does not apply when you are trying to help someone though.
Players: Respect the GM's. There not their to **** your world up, they are ther to make your gaming expierence fun, if they ask you to not shoot them when they are helping a player wiht a problem. respect that, they are tryign to make the game bug free. How woudl you feel if a gm was helping you recover some lost ship because of a bug then someone coems along and blows the gm up?
If a GM is in capacity to fight you, fire back at them. They deserve it and shouldn't expect any less, when I play my characters in a agame, peopel attack them, and they usually die. Such is the way of any game where a character has a capacity to attack.
I have one last statemnt/question.
GM's can't you log on without logging in as a ship? Woudln't it be more feasible to the storyline/continuity or roleplaying if your ships were not even there? I'm sure there is some way to make your ships invisible...
Just my thoughts.
Sincerly,
=Kristopher Michael=
-Merlin Pilot Extrodinaire-
"I wish we had a snapshot of Kristopher Michael shooting Shollos in the back of his Scorpion with a merlin, i think he did nearly Six Hundred Damage to him" -Rabid Kristopher Michael Fan- |
Tomus
|
Posted - 2003.08.18 19:58:00 -
[75]
Edited by: Tomus on 18/08/2003 19:59:41
Quote:
My dear Tomas
Have you ever been to NYC?? If you are rude to one of the station conductors for instance they will simply close their little station door and ignore you.
If you are rude to them what makes you think they will bow down to you??
Like I said before they offer a service. If you are rude to a cop you either get a summons or jail for really bad offences.
I don't exactly agree that it is right but this is the real world we all live in.
Deal with it!!
Would you pay $60 for a meal and expect the waiter to talk to you like a piece of crap because someone was once impolite to him. You would accept that as a fact of life?
I don't think so.
All I did was express an opinion on the post. If they can talk to paying customers in that way then I assume they are utterly contemptous of most of us and so I was questioning whether or not to renew my subscription.
|
Tomus
|
Posted - 2003.08.18 20:02:00 -
[76]
Quote:
omg somone was talked to rudly who cares if you cant take a ruse word from somone you better go back and live with your mom you want rude come whining to me in the game ill show you rude
|
Ehxo
|
Posted - 2003.08.18 20:19:00 -
[77]
Quote:
It was the wording and tone of the sticky. Rudeness is uncalled for from whatever angle.
I think someone needs not to take everything so damn personal. Chill out man, maybe they wrote that to the attention of the players who were rude to GM's, and they actually were quite polite in my opinion. They could have given out names, examples and point specific players, but didn't. This is a serious warning coming from a figure of authority that should be respected. It's the police after all. They don't have to put white gloves to talk to us when they have such a message to pass on, and they probably did it that way because they had to.
But anyhow, I think you're overly sensitive, because it didn't seem rude at all to me.
|
Ehxo
|
Posted - 2003.08.18 20:23:00 -
[78]
Quote:
Dear GM's.
If you are going to present yourself in the game, have GOD MODE turned on.
If you are too stoopid to do this , well if you get killed podded you are only to blame yourself.
If you think that all the people playing online games are going to heed a threat, then you are sadly mistaken.
Every online game has gm's, and all have god mode. do yourself a favor and turn it on.
This is the dumbest thing I've read in a while. In order to kill a GM you need a LOT of force. So if you ever do it you organised it, or at least planned it with other people. If so, it's a clear act of aggression, and you're only looking for trouble.
This like saying unless the cops walk in the street in full body-armor suit with the helmet and everything, that it's their fault if they are getting ganged by a street gang that happened to pass by, and that's it's not the fault of the gang itself? yeah... right...
|
Fusco T
|
Posted - 2003.08.18 20:35:00 -
[79]
The GMs are the refs of the game.
Arguing with them should constitute temp ban.
Same goes for most games why not Eve?
Fact of the matter Ywev has had a serious ego problem. This is MORE than evident from his posts and actions in game.
The GM should have approached him diplomaticaly? BS!
It should have been: GM> Hand over the corpse now or else.
Ywev> well what if i don't
GM> <click> 24 hour ban, <removes corpse from vault>.
Sorry but Ywev and people like him have gone far passed being courteous to.
|
Ywev
|
Posted - 2003.08.18 20:52:00 -
[80]
http://www.eve-online.com
Pod ya later..
Ywev
|
Kynoch
|
Posted - 2003.08.18 20:53:00 -
[81]
As a person that supports web and wan based applications I can see the reason why GMs would be "participating" in the game. They would need to reproduce a bug or investigate an exploit, test a patch, change etc. It makes total sense. All you *butt* Pie-Rats whining about this and that not being fair should just shut up and play the game. If you do something that is a no-no and get spanked for it then you know not to do that again comprende? If you dont like Eve then please leave because your are a waste of skin in the first place.
|
Ayanie
|
Posted - 2003.08.18 20:58:00 -
[82]
Kinda sounds to me like the GM is being a so called "Care bear".
That whole conversation sounds like it shouldnt have happend. Ywev didnt know not to attack a GM, the GM being shot didnt say anything fast enough, and the GM could have easily just came back with a new ship and an instant jump.
You could have told Ywev, "Yeah your not supposed to attack GM's." and he could have said, "Ok sorry I didnt know." |
Kynoch
|
Posted - 2003.08.18 21:00:00 -
[83]
...yeah like he would have just stopped shooting.....hmmm thats likely..
Well we all know now...think it will stop?
|
plur
|
Posted - 2003.08.18 21:13:00 -
[84]
Ubiq, WHY did they want the corpse back?
is it an uber corpse that can be fired at battleships brining them down in one shot?
no
is it infected with a rare contageus strain of the jovian disease?
no
is it a tech 5 corpse?
no
SO WHY THE HELL SHOULD IT MATTER.
it was just all a deliberate setup to bully a player in my opinion. if they didnt want blowing up (and its not the first corpse of a GM M0o have claimed) they would have been in a polaris frigate, invincible.
Ywev.. how often do you check peoples idents before shooting them at gates? 50% of the time? less?
if i was a pirate i wouldnt ID everyone. why? BECAUSE THEN THEY WOULD GET AWAY!!!
man some people would buy **** parcels and be satisfied if you put ribbons on them. Some retailers see those kinds of people coming, they have "Guilible muppet" superimposed over their foreheads in the retailers vision.
|
Caius Cassius
|
Posted - 2003.08.18 21:22:00 -
[85]
My opinion: if it's targetable, it's a target.
Wait, I have more opinions. Why stop with one?
If GM ships aren't invulnerable, that's their problem, not ours. Feature request to CCP, and suck it up until it's addressed... just like WE have to every time we have to endure a bug that affects US. Gee, GMs, doesn't feel so good to be helpless in the face of a bug, does it?
Seriously. Why are GM's even damagable? Don't tell me nobody thought of it. How about the GM in question goes and threatens CCP with a ban unless they provide the GMs with an invulnerable ship (an apparently required tool)? This actualy has nothing to do with players targeting GMs. This is basic to the whole game... in a live even, you're going to need GMs on site. Hellloooo.... splash damage! Smart bombs!
If the GM is such an ego-driven wimp that he has to threaten to ban a player if a DB item isn't "returned", fire him. He's unfit for his job. There are certain temperamental characteristics required for a position like this, and someone who is the kind of person to resort to abusing their authority has no business being allowed to pay their rent. (Guess what. I'm not temperamentally suited to be a GM either. There are supposed to be practices to keep people like me, and the GM in question, the hell out of jobs like that.)
If CCP doesn't have the ability to remove an item from the database (i.e. just delete the stupid corpse and shut the hell up) then they need to hire someone who understands SQL. Are you seriously trying to tell me that CCP exerts no control or ability to edit the game database? If an item doesn't belong in the game, ZAP. It's gone. (Works for Miner V's too...)
NOWHERE in the manual... the EULA... the tutorials... NOWHERE does it say that "GM at the beginning of a name guarantees they ARE in fact a GM".
This whole thing is so lame. If there's a Code of Conduct for the GMs at all (hey, for all I know, there is none), he's certainly violating it.
Next time I see a GM in the game, I think I'll shoot him. If he wants me to stop, he can pay me a million Isk ransom... or limp back to Polaris in an egg.
|
Jojin
|
Posted - 2003.08.18 21:25:00 -
[86]
Edited by: Jojin on 18/08/2003 21:28:50
Plur does bring up a valid point. Why must the player give the item back. Just remove the item from the player. Demanding the player give them item offers no particular benefit. It insults the player and leaves room for a situation to turn into to this uproar of opinions.
I may pay to play, not own anything and can be banned for particular actions, but when you threaten to ban me for not performing actions it is a whole different concept.
On a Side note: Let us not anger the service personnel at EVE. I would hate to see them go ôPostalö on us, or in this case ôEvelö!
|
Jash Illian
|
Posted - 2003.08.18 21:43:00 -
[87]
Quote:
The GMs are the refs of the game.
Arguing with them should constitute temp ban.
Same goes for most games why not Eve?
Fact of the matter Ywev has had a serious ego problem. This is MORE than evident from his posts and actions in game.
The GM should have approached him diplomaticaly? BS!
It should have been: GM> Hand over the corpse now or else.
Ywev> well what if i don't
GM> <click> 24 hour ban, <removes corpse from vault>.
Sorry but Ywev and people like him have gone far passed being courteous to.
If CCP or any other company in the business listened to your advice, they'd be dead within months.
It's customary to inform the player that they are violating a rule THEN ASK that the person conforms to the rules. Especially if the player has not violated that particular rule previously as, like this situation, the rule may not be known. After that, if the player refuses, more stern actions are acceptable.
Arguing with a GM may lead to actions taken against the person's account, that's after they've exhausted any diplomatic solutions. Not the first thing they say. Why you're saying something that is blatantly wrong, I have no clue. But I have suspiciouns.
I mean its like you want corporations to oblige each other like its sex or something. Pffft I would rather **** my enemy.- Rohann
Be careful out there. That other guy waiting in the queue for the gate MIGHT be a baby-munching frock-burner, YOU JUST DON'T KNOW!- Lallante |
Kynoch
|
Posted - 2003.08.18 21:57:00 -
[88]
I have only beta tested one MMORPG (not this one) and have played in a total of 4. I have to say that the last MMORPG that I beta-ed and eventually bought was full of more bugs than this one and was more of a pain in the ass than this one but the players complained, *****ed and threatened far less. Im trying to figure out what makes this game so succeptable to this kind of crap. Ist it because its more global than the others? Do other countries just **** and moan more than others? Id really like to know.
|
| |
|
| Pages: 1 2 3 :: [one page] |