| Pages: 1 2 :: [one page] |
| Author |
Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 0 post(s) |
Rantor
   |
Posted - 2005.12.24 15:59:00 -
[1]
Edited by: Rantor on 24/12/2005 16:14:00
NOTE: please, please, please!!! don't discuss the problem here (there are a plenty of other threads already) - either agree and sign or leave it as is.
I've just read a number of current and old posts about RP lottery and have found a number of facts that really make me feel uneasy. I would like to say the following:
1. We are all members of the EVE community.
2. And this community has a fair rule for T2 BPO handout.
3. The results of this lottery have a tremendous effect on EVE community - therefore everyone is an 'interested party'.
4. But we have no way to control/check the fairness and objectivity of the lottery...
I think this is just not right, we need some kind of information disclosure about the results of the lottery.
For example, every public company in RL has strict obligations to publish important information about it's financial condition. We could have a similar control mechanism in EVE too.
Let's demand from CPP to publish the results of each RP BPO lottery they make.
I think this is the only way we can protect our interests.
Please sign if you agree.
PS. Results publishing could be either in 'announcements'/'news' or in some forum channel - the mechanics of publishing doesn't really matter.
|
Felicity Glimmer
|
Posted - 2005.12.24 16:02:00 -
[2]
Most of what people say in these threads is either lies and or nobody is listening to the people who explain what really happend, people just cry and cry without seeing anything other than what they believe (they believe the lottery is a scam or bugged)
|
Hayzo
|
Posted - 2005.12.24 16:02:00 -
[3]
Edited by: Hayzo on 24/12/2005 16:02:08
 Quote:
Let's demand from CPP to publish the results of each RP BPO lottery they make.
I think this is the only way we can protect our interests.
It would probably lead to unwanted annoyance for the winners, and is probably not in their interests.
____________________
"Your safe Boundaries were once unknown frontiers"
Join channel: TKI-Net |
Rod Blaine
|
Posted - 2005.12.24 16:03:00 -
[4]
No, CCP has no right to possibly ruin the gameplay of anyone that got a tech2 bpo by naming them in public.
Stats ok, names, no way.
_______________________________________________
Power to the players !
|
Rantor
|
Posted - 2005.12.24 16:05:00 -
[5]
Originally by: Rod Blaine
No, CCP has no right to possibly ruin the gameplay of anyone that got a tech2 bpo by naming them in public.
Stats ok, names, no way.
OK, stats (with no names) should be sufficient. But no information at all - that's not quite right.
The problem we have is not with the lottery itself (I hope) - it's with the lack of objective information.
|
Joshua Foiritain
|
Posted - 2005.12.24 16:08:00 -
[6]
Edited by: Joshua Foiritain on 24/12/2005 16:08:50
Originally by: Felicity Glimmer
people just cry and cry without seeing anything other than what they believe (they believe the lottery is a scam or bugged)
I know several people who got 57 bpos from their agents. Call me crazy but that doesnt sound random 
Not to mention that everything thats supposed to be random is the exact opposite. Ours lovely mission selector for example.
Id like some info as to how the random winner selection actually works tbh, that or multiple t2 bpos 
------------------
|
betty spliter
|
Posted - 2005.12.24 16:09:00 -
[7]
Originally by: Sarkos
The problem is that the random numbers being generated are not random, but seem to follow a sequence. Just about everyone that has won a lottery has done so multiple times, yet most other people have won nothing.
from another post, but i think this is what your getting at. I have always thought bpos were given out in the manner as above, it aint random, computers just cant do that.
|
Arhab
|
Posted - 2005.12.24 16:12:00 -
[8]
The misunderstanding people had was when some said they received multiple T2 BPOs and forgot to mention they run 2-3 accounts with 2-3 R&D agent runner on each. It made others think that the lottery isnt random at all.
Good info would have to come from the people claiming to receive multiple BPOs from the SAME character. If many people receive multiple BPOs running the same character then it would indeed seem strange.
|
Pooka
|
Posted - 2005.12.24 16:15:00 -
[9]
Stats PLUS how many BPO said player X has won. I agree no names but wouly like to see what the "lucky" ones have recieved so far in the "lottery"
Corp info would be nice too but I'm sure they would want that.
Proud memmber of the 2
Word: p·ca (POO-kuh) [pu:k@] Meaning: p·ca = goblin, sprite, pooka
|
Ayla Vanir
|
Posted - 2005.12.24 17:03:00 -
[10]
Edited by: Ayla Vanir on 24/12/2005 17:03:25
Agree. If character names are a problem for some players, then report the data and associate it with anonymous alpha-numerical IDs:
Character #4RE383 on Account # 23XZ88 (just anonymous numbers) won such and Such BPO with X amount of RP etc.
This way we can see if the same characters and/or accounts are somehow beating the odds, without revealing either the character name or player information.
[edited: omgs typo]
|
Gamer4liff
|
Posted - 2005.12.24 17:08:00 -
[11]
The only # I'm interested in is total Caldari starship engineering RP.
|
Deja Thoris
|
Posted - 2005.12.24 17:10:00 -
[12]
I'd love to see this.
|
Had Matter
|
Posted - 2005.12.24 17:16:00 -
[13]
Originally by: Rantor
Let's demand from CPP to publish the results of each RP BPO lottery they make.
Let's not. Even if the lottery is skewed, it's their prerogative to do whatever the heck they want with their game.
Posts like these really makes me cringe - I'm not that eager to be a part of a community that behaves like this. Hopefully it's just a vocal minority who are going on like this.
|
Rantor
|
Posted - 2005.12.24 17:23:00 -
[14]
Originally by: Rantor
Originally by: Rod Blaine
No, CCP has no right to possibly ruin the gameplay of anyone that got a tech2 bpo by naming them in public.
Stats ok, names, no way.
OK, stats (with no names) should be sufficient. But no information at all - that's not quite right.
I've just gave a second thought to the "player names" and came to the following: what's good in publishing the anonymous (with no player/corp names) information, if we can't check it?
Hmm... Not as easy as I thought at the beginning.  There is a definitely a conflict of interests: those who won might not like the fact of their announcement...
Well, it's up to community to decide whether it's good or not.
|
Jowen Datloran
|
Posted - 2005.12.24 17:27:00 -
[15]
Originally by: Gamer4liff
The only # I'm interested in is total Caldari starship engineering RP.
And this number is insanly high. Not hard to understand why, right?
It's been clearly stated that the ammount of prints seeded in the starship engineering fields are far lower than the other fields, with the ammo prints being the highest. I'm talking about numbers of the same print and not different kinds.
As every body and their dog are doing some sort of starship engineering, do you still find it hard to understand why you don't get any prints?
----------------
Main as main can be |
Deja Thoris
|
Posted - 2005.12.24 17:31:00 -
[16]
Originally by: Jowen Datloran
Originally by: Gamer4liff
The only # I'm interested in is total Caldari starship engineering RP.
And this number is insanly high. Not hard to understand why, right?
It's been clearly stated that the ammount of prints seeded in the starship engineering fields are far lower than the other fields, with the ammo prints being the highest. I'm talking about numbers of the same print and not different kinds.
As every body and their dog are doing some sort of starship engineering, do you still find it hard to understand why you don't get any prints?
Sooooo some figures to prove this would not be amiss then would they?
|
Jowen Datloran
|
Posted - 2005.12.24 17:34:00 -
[17]
Ask Oveur to include this information in his "New Year EVE Statistics Package". 
----------------
Main as main can be |
Gamer4liff
|
Posted - 2005.12.24 17:36:00 -
[18]
Originally by: Jowen Datloran
Originally by: Gamer4liff
The only # I'm interested in is total Caldari starship engineering RP.
And this number is insanly high. Not hard to understand why, right?
It's been clearly stated that the ammount of prints seeded in the starship engineering fields are far lower than the other fields, with the ammo prints being the highest. I'm talking about numbers of the same print and not different kinds.
As every body and their dog are doing some sort of starship engineering, do you still find it hard to understand why you don't get any prints?
I know that my chances are astronomically low, I just want to know Exactly how astronomically low.
|
franny
|
Posted - 2005.12.24 17:42:00 -
[19]
yes please
|
Beerwinch
|
Posted - 2005.12.24 21:10:00 -
[20]
The solution to this is to release more BPO's.....I dont understand how continually supplying the agents with T2 BPO's is going to rashly disrupt the system before T3 Items come out (the maximum release of BPO needs to end).....Think about it... 1 BPO/agent released each week:
1st week: T2 equipment astronomically priced.
2nd week: T2 equipment prices slashed by 1/4-1/3rd
3rd week: another slash of 1/4-1/3rd
4th week: product probably rides at a lower price for a few weeks as T2 manufacturing materials becomes an issue.
2 months... Product becomes reasonably affordable riding profit margins still above T1 equipment---maintains this price for approx a month...More people searching for resources to build T2 equipment.
3-4 month: Kali release, T3 equipment, hypothesize T2 equipment price settled at affordable price higher than T1 equipment because of the price of T2 building materials....Then the cycle with T3 items begin.
|
Amaron Ghant
|
Posted - 2005.12.24 21:14:00 -
[21]
Originally by: Rod Blaine
No, CCP has no right to possibly ruin the gameplay of anyone that got a tech2 bpo by naming them in public.
Stats ok, names, no way.
Got to agree with Rod on this. I¦d just like to see which NPC corps awarded the BPO¦s....not which agent , just which NPC corp. IE Lai Dai, 2 ship, 20 ammo 1 drone. |
Warnasche Ulthor
|
Posted - 2006.01.11 19:21:00 -
[22]
I suppose the concern would be that the more information we have, the more likely we (meaning players in general) would be to figure out how to "game" the lottery. I certainly don't expect to see the exact formula they use to determine winners published, but I'm not sure at what level of detail the devs would worry about someone figuring out a way to stack it in their favor.
|
Ruby StarFire
|
Posted - 2006.01.11 19:27:00 -
[23]
Originally by: Rantor
Well, it's up to community to decide whether it's good or not.
If its going to be decided democratically, theres a HELLUVA lot more people without BPO's that there are with.... Prepare for names 
|
Pod Me
|
Posted - 2006.01.12 09:20:00 -
[24]
Originally by: Beerwinch
The solution to this is to release more BPO's.....I dont understand how continually supplying the agents with T2 BPO's is going to rashly disrupt the system before T3 Items come out (the maximum release of BPO needs to end).....Think about it... 1 BPO/agent released each week:
1st week: T2 equipment astronomically priced.
2nd week: T2 equipment prices slashed by 1/4-1/3rd
3rd week: another slash of 1/4-1/3rd
4th week: product probably rides at a lower price for a few weeks as T2 manufacturing materials becomes an issue.
2 months... Product becomes reasonably affordable riding profit margins still above T1 equipment---maintains this price for approx a month...More people searching for resources to build T2 equipment.
3-4 month: Kali release, T3 equipment, hypothesize T2 equipment price settled at affordable price higher than T1 equipment because of the price of T2 building materials....Then the cycle with T3 items begin.
And we'd *still* have people moaning that they got their BPO 2 months after the first one, after the pries had dropped, boohoo, etc.
Honestly some people need to get a grip on small-number statistics (if you want a clue, Google for "Poisson distribution").
|
Tharrn
|
Posted - 2006.01.12 09:38:00 -
[25]
Some statistics like
1.) average number of RP people had when they got a BPO for each field
2.) a graph that shows how many people got 1, 2, 3, 4... BPOs
would probably do to show whether or not it's random :P
------------------------------------------------------
|
Sessho Seki
|
Posted - 2006.01.12 10:24:00 -
[26]
How about no.
Not that the knowledge of seeing first hand how idiotically arranged this asinine excuse for a research ôsystemö wouldnÆt be interesting, but frankly it would accomplish a grand total of making concrete what we already know to be the case, that the research system in EVE is so far beyond stupid as to detract from the meaning of the word.
The real thing we should all be clamoring for is a straight forward research system that is actually a system, rather than a perpetual scam.
First, the upcoming plans for ôauctioningö BPOÆs is so impotent to even properly denigrate. Unless 10 of every BPO are put on the auction block each auction cycle, itÆs just another mile stone in the road of ôtoo little too lateö.
The research system needs to be an actual mechanic that the player has to actually contribute to with action and time to every get anything out of. (Shock! GASP!)
You donÆt see players go to a Caldari Navy Security agent, introduce themselves, and come back 2 months later with a zillion LP built up for doing NOTHING and then cash in on a Navy Raven or whatever the case may be. So why in the hell does research involve NO RESEARCH or anything even remotely reminiscent of it in any way?
even if it was something akin to a slow, boring, grinding sequence like mining ore/ice it would be one hell of a lot better than the current joke that basically says to players ôdonÆt worry about pesky things like interaction, research takes care of itself! (Actual odds of winning 1:No-way-in-hellö.
Earning RP should require input, and work should be rewarded not with this currently moronic lotto scam, everyone in the game in one way or another knows itÆs a complete joke either for or against the researchers. A form of ôRP marketö needs introduction post-haste! All BPOÆs of all sizes and shapes should be offered, and if someone works hard enough RESEARCHING (you know, the opposite of the current DO NOTHING, and wait and maybe the idiot lotto might draw your number) then they would have enough research built up to acquire the BPO from the NPC.
|
Jiggy
|
Posted - 2006.01.12 10:28:00 -
[27]
To all the people saying "The players who win multiple bpo's are running 3-4 chars with 5 agents each", I've won 3 bpo's and refused 1, with just one character doing research.
|
Gariuys
|
Posted - 2006.01.12 10:30:00 -
[28]
Originally by: Rantor
Well, it's up to community to decide whether it's good or not.
Thank god that is far far from the truth.
~{When evil and strange get together anything is possible}~
A tool is only useless when you don't know how to use it. - ActiveX
The grass is always greener on the other side. - JoCool |
sonofollo
|
Posted - 2006.01.12 11:28:00 -
[29]
Here goes my fun logic post that CCP dont seem to listen to
AGENTS RP LP AND STORYLINE AS WELL AS LP BONUSES AND MANUFACTURING AGENTS ONE IN 30 MISSIONS AS WELL AS COMMANDER NPC DROPS VERY RARLEY
TECH 2 1-5 RUN BLUEPRINT COPIES
TECH 2 BPCS
TECH 2 BPCS
TECH 2 BPCS
TECH 2 BPCS
TECH 2 BPCS
TECH 2 BPCS
TECH 2 BPCS
TECH 2 BPCS
TECH 2 BPCS
TECH 2 BPCS TECH 2 BPCS TECH 2 BPCS TECH 2 BPCS
HAVE I SAID IT ENOUGH TECH 2 BPCS WHERE ARE THEY PROMISED FOR A LONG TIME TECH 2 BPCS GET THEM INTO TQ NOW NOW NOW NOW HA
Im a happy little camper now - CCP 4tw. |
Morke
|
Posted - 2006.01.12 11:41:00 -
[30]
I doubt CCP with give out statistics about actual BPO's given out. However I have never seen clear information on how the lottery works, many statements contradict eachother and I have never seen a statement from CCP.
I'd like to know things like:
- In which intervals are BPO's given out, and how many? (For example, one of each type?)
- Is'nt it extremely unlikely that most win nothing and a few win a dozen BPO's or so? There are reports that people have done research on one character for months with huge ammounts accumulated rp's and got nothing, then started researching with another and rather soon got lucky with a rather low number of rp. This has seemed to happen more often then chance would seem to usually permit.
- What formula is used to calculate chance of a character/r&d agent and how is it used in the final random mechanism that chooses who gets a BPO?
If CCP chooses not to give out such information it would be nice to at least hear a reason for it. They seemed to have sealed lips when it comes to this topic till now.
If it comes to signing the request of this thread topic - I sign it if it stays anonymous.
Morke
|
sonofollo
|
Posted - 2006.01.12 11:45:00 -
[31]
well it also makes a mockery of the science skill tree i mean what 1000s of accounts doing advanced science skills and maybe 10% at best can use em
Bring in Blueprint copies limited run from agents and other sources - put more science skills to use from more players that bother to train them. Add soem competition ot the t2 pricing market (not much extra supply but adding more suppliers)
Also fro those that dont have skills but have some luck in getting the t2 BPcs they then create a viable price competitive escrow market as well as making more outlets esp in low sec for the new RAM - D.Db BPO production industry
Common CCP give us some balance through youre pathetic decisions beforehand time to right the wrongs.
Im a happy little camper now - CCP 4tw. |
Zolofine
|
Posted - 2006.01.12 11:49:00 -
[32]
Originally by: Tharrn
Some statistics like
1.) average number of RP people had when they got a BPO for each field
2.) a graph that shows how many people got 1, 2, 3, 4... BPOs
would probably do to show whether or not it's random :P
you need stats for that?!
10 guys with 20 rp in total won 30 starship bpo's in total
2guys with 2 trillion rp between the two of them won 2 starship bpo's
100 guys with 50-354373787 RP got various bpo's
40000 guys ranging from 1 rp to anything respectable got nihl 
you dont need any stats, it would just confirm you worst nightmare about the majority of the big ticket bpo's going to people who didn't earn them and loads of people who earned them got didly... |
sonofollo
|
Posted - 2006.01.12 11:53:00 -
[33]
for that last poster like the rest of the programming of late its rushed bugged and totally unbalanced - goes against CCPs approach but with 60-70% of the programming efforts going inot the china server chasing the big bucks at the end of the rainbow this type of shafting is to be expected
Im a happy little camper now - CCP 4tw. |
Rod Blaine
|
Posted - 2006.01.12 11:54:00 -
[34]
Edited by: Rod Blaine on 12/01/2006 11:57:19
Look, noone "earned" a 40 billion isk bpo. Unless he did research missions for over a year straight and little else.
What this is about is a goldrush, and those jealous of people that turned out to have staked the right piece of land are crying that they went to more trouble (=trained more skills at an earlier date), and got a big piece of land that only holds veldspar, no gold.
People question wether god put the gold into the ground evenly or not.
Well duh, he did not, that is the effect of randomness you know.
_______________________________________________
Power to the players !
|
Ebil Genius
|
Posted - 2006.01.12 12:57:00 -
[35]
Since this post has well and truly been derailed and rather than continue the argument which has been raging 2 years now when research agents were brought into the game, we should just conclude that this whole research system is utter bollox (apart from the lucky ones who got the good BPOs). Either that or my agent is a thick git who couldn't research his way out of a nut sack. |
Black Sabbath
|
Posted - 2006.01.24 01:59:00 -
[36]
Originally by: Rantor
Edited by: Rantor on 24/12/2005 17:24:02
Edited by: Rantor on 24/12/2005 17:13:21
Edited by: Rantor on 24/12/2005 16:14:00
NOTE: please, please, please!!! don't discuss the problem here (there are a plenty of other threads already - here, for example) - either agree and sign or leave it as is.
I've just read a number of current and old posts about RP lottery and have found a number of facts that really make me feel uneasy. I would like to say the following:
1. We are all members of the EVE community.
2. And this community has a fair rule for T2 BPO handout.
3. The results of this lottery have a tremendous effect on EVE community - therefore everyone is an 'interested party'.
4. But we have no way to control/check the fairness and objectivity of the lottery...
I think this is just not right, we need some kind of information disclosure about the results of the lottery.
For example, every public company in RL has strict obligations to publish important information about it's financial condition. We could have a similar control mechanism in EVE too.
Let's demand from CPP to publish the results of each RP BPO lottery they make.
I think this is the only way we can protect our interests.
Please sign if you agree.
PS. Results publishing could be either in 'announcements'/'news' or in some forum channel - the mechanics of publishing doesn't really matter.
Whiners 4TL !
|
Erik Pathfinder
|
Posted - 2006.01.24 03:55:00 -
[37]
Thread Necromancy FTL!!!
------------------------------------------------------------
|
Doc Brown
|
Posted - 2006.01.24 04:06:00 -
[38]
Thread necromancy or not...
I'd still love to see the statistical numbers of T2 BPO's relased and who got them (sanitized by replacing names w/numbers or other random ID's of course).
To be effective this would have to strech back to the first release and be continous as the game progresses. Only then can we see if it's truly random or if there is a pattern.
Doc Brown
_________________________________________________
There are no bad ideas, only bad implementations. |
Corp Scammer
|
Posted - 2006.01.24 04:36:00 -
[39]
hmmm would be interesting but isnt going to happen
|
Ebil Fred
|
Posted - 2006.01.24 08:18:00 -
[40]
unfortunately you have no "right" to demand such information
When are people going to get it into their heads that CCP are perfectly entitled to run the game anyway they choose.
It would pointless without the names and you cannot give out the names as that would stuff up their games for ever more.
(\ _ (O /) o) . <) (> I cut up teh bunneh too. |
Doc Brown
|
Posted - 2006.01.24 16:59:00 -
[41]
Edited by: Doc Brown on 24/01/2006 17:04:04
Originally by: Ebil Fred
unfortunately you have no "right" to demand such information
When are people going to get it into their heads that CCP are perfectly entitled to run the game anyway they choose.
It would pointless without the names and you cannot give out the names as that would stuff up their games for ever more.
I'm not demand, just asking... as for if I have a right or not, well I do contribute to their paycheck ;) Yes CCP can run the game how they want, but what's wrong with comparing the virtual economy in Eve to our real one?
It's very common these days to do analysis on data to determine if it's random or not. Take Enron for example, if their auditors actually did their job they would have noticed that some (most) of Enron's numbers were random (i.e: no patteren at all) which means they were artifical.
And no, it would be far from pointless with the names missing because the names don't serve any purpose in an anlysis. Randomized ID numbers would work just as well.
_________________________________________________
There are no bad ideas, only bad implementations. |
LWMaverick
|
Posted - 2006.01.24 18:07:00 -
[42]
Originally by: sonofollo
Here goes my fun logic post that CCP dont seem to listen to
AGENTS RP LP AND STORYLINE AS WELL AS LP BONUSES AND MANUFACTURING AGENTS ONE IN 30 MISSIONS AS WELL AS COMMANDER NPC DROPS VERY RARLEY
TECH 2 1-5 RUN BLUEPRINT COPIES
TECH 2 BPCS
TECH 2 BPCS
TECH 2 BPCS
TECH 2 BPCS
TECH 2 BPCS
TECH 2 BPCS
TECH 2 BPCS
TECH 2 BPCS
TECH 2 BPCS
TECH 2 BPCS TECH 2 BPCS TECH 2 BPCS TECH 2 BPCS
HAVE I SAID IT ENOUGH TECH 2 BPCS WHERE ARE THEY PROMISED FOR A LONG TIME TECH 2 BPCS GET THEM INTO TQ NOW NOW NOW NOW HA
/me Steals sonfollo's "Capslock"+"Shift key" and starts smashing them with a baseball bat.
*pheeww*
/me hands back the remaining pieces
Thx..
-Mav
With great power, comes great responsibility. |
| |
|
| Pages: 1 2 :: [one page] |