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R&D petition this is the wrong way to hand out tech 2 BPOÆs.

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Leeach	Posted - 2005.12.25 17:58:00 - [1] There is nothing new under the R&D sun. I just hope that is we put a bit off pressure on CCP it will change the R&D crazy lottery before they hand out the tech 2 BS BPOÆes. I donÆt know what math they use to get the random numbers they use to determine who get the BPOÆs, I donÆt know if it works right or have a bug like some people talk about. To be honest I have given up on R&D a long time ago since it is properly the part of EVE that need to be fixed most. The numbers of BPOÆs they turn out right now it is destroying the eve economy in a crazy speed. We all hear numbers of 30-40 Bill sell prices on some BPOÆs and I guess that the BS tech 2 BPOÆs might go above 100bill when they turn out. You canÆt have such an important part of eve to be completely random, and turn out tech 2 BPOÆs in such small numbers that only the super rich mega corps have any chance off getting them on the open market. If I am not completely wrong the tech 2 BS can even end up becoming more expensive to start up production of then the new capital titan class. Hell I guess a command cruiser cost more right now then the large carrier. I hope more people agree with me.CPP need to speed up the work on a R&D fix.
Trelennen	Posted - 2005.12.25 18:13:00 - [2] /signed Originally by: DarK The cluetrain obviously doesn't stop at this station anymore...
Keven	Posted - 2005.12.25 18:40:00 - [3] /agrees to the "artifical BPO shortage raises prices to heights out of reach for many players" part.
Jubeli	Posted - 2005.12.25 19:05:00 - [4] I really doubt CCP will change anything in the T2 BPO lottery, but they will put in the T2 BPO auction (nice isk sink). Sure only rich corporations will be able to participate there, that is why the lottery is a pretty OK solution - all have the chance to win. They release 20 units of each BPO. How often and how many they send out at the time I'm not sure of, but they pool up all RP points and one is the winner. Now guess your chances on a Starship Engineering lottery - how many people do you think participate there compared to say Rocket Science.. the more people in the lottery the less chance you have to win.. It is all about patience.. get RPM skill and 6 x reseach agents. Then continue business as usual and one day you'll have the mail. Maybe not now after RMR and maybe not after Kali.. but sooner or later you will be a winner since you'll keep gaining RP while winners have to start all over. ..also regarding ship build cost of the T2 BS later on, I hardly think it will be more then a Titan.. The build of a Elite BC is not as high as a Carrier.. look up the BPO info and have a look.
Leeach	Posted - 2005.12.25 19:11:00 - [5] Edited by: Leeach on 25/12/2005 19:13:44 Edited by: Leeach on 25/12/2005 19:11:49 I where talking about the start up price. The command cruisers BPO sell for 35 bill right now. That is very close to the start up BPO price for a large carrier. And if you check the DEV page you will see that they are in the process of doing something about R&D all they need is to speed it up. And unless you are the only player in EVE doing research you are never sure og getting a tech 2 BPO. Right now i think the chance of getting a Tech 2 BPO is getting smaller with all the new players starting R&D research up.
Manwoman	Posted - 2005.12.25 19:23:00 - [6] Not signed, stop whining, getting a good T2 bpo usually requires a hell of a lot of work and dedication, or in some cases, a lot of luck, however the lucky ones often enough sell the bpos to those who put the effort in to earn the isk to buy it from them. You cant be bothered to put the effort in, you dont get a t2 bpo, simple as that, ccp wont change it because they are smart and dont listen to the clueless whiners that always ruin MMORPGS.
Manwoman	Posted - 2005.12.25 19:25:00 - [7] further more, what about all those people who paid 10s of billions for bpos, do you think they got that isk for free, what about all those people who may have spent months gathering the isk to buy the bpo, and now await a 1 year payback time if they produce 24/7, you want to destroy what they have worked for? your so selfish.
Leeach	Posted - 2005.12.25 19:28:00 - [8] We all know people that have put in the work and never get anything. And i am talking 2-4 hours of R&D mission running a day for 10+ month. Yes there are other way of getting rich in eve and i very far from poor but that dont change my point. The system is wrong. I would hate to be a newbie corp starting up just to see that a random event gives one player more isk that 30-40 people can make in months
Leeach	Posted - 2005.12.25 19:30:00 - [9] Most of the people that buy those BPO's do if for money they got selling tech 2 equipment from other BPO's they got early in the game. If we are not talking about mega corps have have 30-40 tech 2 BPO's.
Manwoman	Posted - 2005.12.25 19:33:00 - [10] Edited by: Manwoman on 25/12/2005 19:34:11 R&D does mean you get a bpo, it means you get a chance, understand? if they are running 2-4 hours worth of missions a day, they should have already accepted they by no means have a definite chance to win, theres a LOT of people and not everyone can win i know plenty of people who never won any bpos but have lots, because they bought there way in with isk they made doing other stuff, i dunno where u get this stuff from. anyone can have a t2 bpo, they just have to shell out the isk to pay for it, if they cant afford it, then they dont deserve the t2 bpo, thats a simple fact
Don Hicks	Posted - 2005.12.25 19:41:00 - [11] I think we should stick with the lottery. I am not sure if the random selection system works fine ( some ppl get 7+ offers while other none). There also things that could be improved - like increase chances of long term rd agent runners (multiply rp by time with an agent??). I think the last final thing - there should be more bpos ditributed - the prices would drop down. In general - the lottery idea is good, but need few tweaks imo.
Leeach	Posted - 2005.12.25 19:46:00 - [12] Edited by: Leeach on 25/12/2005 19:47:01 --------------------R&D does not mean you get a bpo, it means you get a chance, understand? if they are running 2-4 hours worth of missions a day, they should have already accepted they by no means have a definite chance to win, theres a LOT of people and not everyone can win i know plenty of people who never won any bpos but have lots, because they bought there way in with isk they made doing other stuff, i dunno where u get this stuff from. anyone can have a t2 bpo, they just have to shell out the isk to pay for it, if they cant afford it, then they dont deserve the t2 bpo, thats a simple fact --------------------------------------- I guess you did not notis the increase in prices on BPO's these day. There is no chance that any new corps can get on the tech 2 wave anymore. I did early in the game chose no to put my time into full time R&D running and cant complain about my outcome. But CCP know that something must be done with it, and if you did bother to read what they have on the drawingboard you would see it to.
Leeach	Posted - 2005.12.25 19:48:00 - [13] I agree they need to put more tech 2 BPO's in the game
Manwoman	Posted - 2005.12.25 19:50:00 - [14] ccp are adding an auction system in addition to the lottery, a few bpos will go through the auction system, but not many. they said they might allow blueprint copies to come from doing some kind of super research like going in 10/10 complexes, i cant see it happening tbh, this is going to help new players how?
Manwoman	Posted - 2005.12.25 19:56:00 - [15] the selfish whiners asking for a LOT more t2 bpos to be added or for the system to be changed "so all can get them" (they can now anyway) really get on my nerves, the lot of you are just jealous you see somebody who owns a zealot bpo profiting at about 400m-500m a week and all you get is jealous and come to cry and whine on the forums, what you dont see, is the 30 billion isk that guy invested 2 months ago as he struggles to make back the huge investment.
Leeach	Posted - 2005.12.25 19:58:00 - [16] Edited by: Leeach on 25/12/2005 19:58:25 CCP Next-Gen Research Involve the players more in what they research, enable limited rewards (Blueprint Copies) and require more interaction with either other players or complexes/environments to get the items needed to release the blueprint/limited blueprint. You might need to hack into a number of locations in 10/10 complexes, find some rare archeological artifacts etc. to allow finalize the breakthrough. Blueprint Originals would still be somewhat lottery based, but you can affect it more than today and you get more limited rewards in the meantime. -------------------------------------------------------------------- From what i read they will give out limited rewards to the agent runners and even BPC's rewards will lover the price off the original BPO's. If most off the agent runners get the limited rewards sometimes it may double the production capasity for some thing.
Leeach	Posted - 2005.12.25 20:02:00 - [17] I dont get your talk about the simple player who did work 10 hours a day for years to but that single tech 2 BPO that he did want bad. From my knowlage it is mostly mega corps that buy the BPO's today.
Manwoman	Posted - 2005.12.25 20:10:00 - [18] and the problem with a large group of people (a mega corp) owning t2 bpos is? they if anyone should own them.
Leeach	Posted - 2005.12.25 20:15:00 - [19] You where talking about the small mand fighting to get his investment back. Why limit this part of the game to 10-15 mega corps. But anyway you dont agree fime with me )
Manwoman	Posted - 2005.12.25 20:17:00 - [20] no im talking about anyone who bought a t2 bpo fighting to get their investment back, you simply wont be able to buy a t2 bpo without having to initially spend on the bpo what you will earn in the first 40-50 weeks
Leeach	Posted - 2005.12.25 20:21:00 - [21] Yes why do you think the prices on HAC's are way up right now. The good BPOs cost 30 bill now. The rich mega corps will spend a insane amount of isk getting the BPO's and who do you think will pay the price in the end ;). If you dont think the high prices on tech 2 ships will limit it to the very rich old elite of players you are wrong.
Manwoman	Posted - 2005.12.25 20:30:00 - [22] listen, thats exactly what the t2 ships are, toys for the rich, most of them arnt better than t1, sure an interceptor is better than a frig, but anyone can afford a interceptor. new players dont need T2 ships, battleships are far cheaper and far better, again as i said, t2 ships are just toys for the rich
Leeach	Posted - 2005.12.25 20:36:00 - [23] Ok i gues you dont do much pvp then since what you mostly meet is tech 2 frigates and Cruisers. They are a logic advancement from tech 1 ships and not a toy. The only toy ships in the game is the pirate and faction BS ) and even they pay back quick if you know what you do.
Don Hicks	Posted - 2005.12.25 20:39:00 - [24] Originally by: Manwoman the selfish whiners asking for a LOT more t2 bpos to be added or for the system to be changed "so all can get them" (they can now anyway) really get on my nerves, the lot of you are just jealous you see somebody who owns a zealot bpo profiting at about 400m-500m a week and all you get is jealous and come to cry and whine on the forums, what you dont see, is the 30 billion isk that guy invested 2 months ago as he struggles to make back the huge investment. dont you understand 1 simple thing - if you add more bpos the prices will go down?? so it will be more like 100-200 a week prolly, then we can talk about moderate prices. I do not know why you cant see there is something wrong with the system atm- ppl spend months on training skills for rd agents, then months running missions and then they get nothing. R
Ruffio Sepico	Posted - 2005.12.25 20:51:00 - [25] Originally by: Don Hicks Originally by: Manwoman the selfish whiners asking for a LOT more t2 bpos to be added or for the system to be changed "so all can get them" (they can now anyway) really get on my nerves, the lot of you are just jealous you see somebody who owns a zealot bpo profiting at about 400m-500m a week and all you get is jealous and come to cry and whine on the forums, what you dont see, is the 30 billion isk that guy invested 2 months ago as he struggles to make back the huge investment. dont you understand 1 simple thing - if you add more bpos the prices will go down?? so it will be more like 100-200 a week prolly, then we can talk about moderate prices. I do not know why you cant see there is something wrong with the system atm- ppl spend months on training skills for rd agents, then months running missions and then they get nothing. R Check the sell forum. People who get new t2 bpo's, what they do? they sell them, rather than utilize them. Doesnt really matter how many more bpo's they release, as people who get them tend to sell them. Many of those who buy already is established t2 builders. T2 will never be as common as t1, and t2 isnt a birth right, its a option. Go buy a t2 bpo if your agent doesnt give you one through r&d missions. Many of those who get a t2 bpo through r&d run multiple accounts with all characters possible on those accounts foused on r&d. Thats how someone get multiple bpo's, they dont tend to get that through just one character. There is to much isk invested in current t2 bpo's that players own for CCP to start swing the nerf bat around. It would create the worst havoc ever seen in any mmorpg if they did. There is to much ENVY in EVE, thats the cold hard truth. Home: http://www.hidden-agenda.co.uk
Don Hicks	Posted - 2005.12.25 21:04:00 - [26] Oh yea, I agree - there is a lot of envy. Regarding multiple bpo - there must be a lot of people running multiple accounts focused on RD (kinda Macromining), but i based my opinion on post from ppl getting multiple bpo offers on on 1 character. Unless they are talking a lot of crap ( some prolly do) there is something wrong with it.
Leeach	Posted - 2005.12.25 21:04:00 - [27] Originally by: Ruffio Sepico Originally by: Don Hicks Originally by: Manwoman the selfish whiners asking for a LOT more t2 bpos to be added or for the system to be changed "so all can get them" (they can now anyway) really get on my nerves, the lot of you are just jealous you see somebody who owns a zealot bpo profiting at about 400m-500m a week and all you get is jealous and come to cry and whine on the forums, what you dont see, is the 30 billion isk that guy invested 2 months ago as he struggles to make back the huge investment. dont you understand 1 simple thing - if you add more bpos the prices will go down?? so it will be more like 100-200 a week prolly, then we can talk about moderate prices. I do not know why you cant see there is something wrong with the system atm- ppl spend months on training skills for rd agents, then months running missions and then they get nothing. R Check the sell forum. People who get new t2 bpo's, what they do? they sell them, rather than utilize them. Doesnt really matter how many more bpo's they release, as people who get them tend to sell them. Many of those who buy already is established t2 builders. T2 will never be as common as t1, and t2 isnt a birth right, its a option. Go buy a t2 bpo if your agent doesnt give you one through r&d missions. Many of those who get a t2 bpo through r&d run multiple accounts with all characters possible on those accounts foused on r&d. Thats how someone get multiple bpo's, they dont tend to get that through just one character. There is to much isk invested in current t2 bpo's that players own for CCP to start swing the nerf bat around. It would create the worst havoc ever seen in any mmorpg if they did. There is to much ENVY in EVE, thats the cold hard truth. They sell them because they cant turn down the mega corp offers. Most of the BPO's end up in the same hands. That is why the tech 2 ships and components say this expensive.
Leeach	Posted - 2005.12.25 21:06:00 - [28] The point is CCP make the changes you propose quickly it will only make the game better.
Ruffio Sepico	Posted - 2005.12.25 21:25:00 - [29] Originally by: Leeach The point is CCP make the changes you propose quickly it will only make the game better. There is no need for any changes. The die hard players who focus on r&d put so much effort into it, if they recieve a couple bpo's I dont mind, good for them. I got multiple agents, my last offer was over a year ago. Which I declined, I been lucky before that. Sometimes you are lucky, sometimes you are not. Train up multiple characters on your account(s), to do r&d, get the science skills + the research manager skill to use multiple agents. Work your standings with the r&d corp's up so you can use their best agents (involves run an awfull amount of courrier missions). Do that with multiple and accounts and characters. After all its NO WORK right? you get them by a unfair system? Flood the system with to much t2 bpo's wont fix prices to be any lower. Higher preassure on the materials needed, will press material prices up, this will lead to more expensive components, which again will lead to higher production prices. As all should know build cost and increase of get moved onto the customer. Home: http://www.hidden-agenda.co.uk
Skarsnik	Posted - 2005.12.25 21:43:00 - [30] Originally by: Manwoman the selfish whiners asking for a LOT more t2 bpos to be added or for the system to be changed "so all can get them" (they can now anyway) really get on my nerves, the lot of you are just jealous you see somebody who owns a zealot bpo profiting at about 400m-500m a week and all you get is jealous and come to cry and whine on the forums, what you dont see, is the 30 billion isk that guy invested 2 months ago as he struggles to make back the huge investment. And the guy that got the zealot BPO thats producing that cost him nothing Perhap you are a multiple bpo winner who wants the cake and eat it at the same time. This game is risk vs. reward, tell me where in the R&D lottery is the risk ------------------------------------------------- Statement of the Obvious Contrary to Popular belief - it is NOT possible to walk on water.

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