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Remiel Pollard
Layman's terms
TAXU
1618
   |
Posted - 2013.08.13 18:16:00 -
[1] - Quote
I laugh at this woman's loss. Why? Because it's people like this that ruin games like EVE Online that are not supposed to be pay-to-win by making it pay-to-win. Because the EVE Online EULA expressly forbids selling in-game items for real world money, and I hope whatever account(s) she's using in game to make the item transfers was one of the accounts in the recent wave of permabans.
I hope she loses the case, I applaud the thieves for delivering such poetic (however illegal) justice, I applaud AAMI for denying her claim, and I hope she cries a lot over it.
You don't scare me. I've been to Jita. |
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Chribba
Otherworld Enterprises
Otherworld Empire
9143
|
Posted - 2013.08.13 18:20:00 -
[2] - Quote
Gold... gold... gold.
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Remiel Pollard
Layman's terms
TAXU
1618
|
Posted - 2013.08.13 18:23:00 -
[3] - Quote
Chribba wrote:Gold... gold... gold.
Wow, and I didn't even have to mention your name. This is quite a surprise 
You don't scare me. I've been to Jita. |
Mercas Alderau
Wholesale Merchants
6
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Posted - 2013.08.13 18:27:00 -
[4] - Quote
To be honest, I'd have stuck with the virtual gold.
Actual gold is a real hassle - as proven here - and usually not worth it. Certainly not for storing most of your fortune in, way too risky. |
C DeLeon
Pangalactic Punks n' Playboys
HUN Reloaded
215
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Posted - 2013.08.13 18:38:00 -
[5] - Quote
I tried gold farming but it didn't worked. I planted a gold nugget in my garden and watered it every day but nothing grew out of it :( |
Lucas Kell
JSR1 AND GOLDEN GUARDIAN PRODUCTIONS
SpaceMonkey's Alliance
441
|
Posted - 2013.08.13 18:39:00 -
[6] - Quote
Yeah, they are discussing it like a legal matter, but it already is. By paying to play the game you agree to the EULA. That's a contract, so breaching that contract is a breach of a contract. Earning money through a breach of contract is essentially fraud.
The Indecisive Noob - A new EVE Fan Blog for news and stuff. |
Malcolm Shinhwa
bad touches
158
|
Posted - 2013.08.13 18:42:00 -
[7] - Quote
I'm unclear how CCP corporate policy should keep an insurance company from paying out on property covered by a policy.
I have 5 different chars that I play. This may be my main, or maybe not. I have no idea. |
Lucas Kell
JSR1 AND GOLDEN GUARDIAN PRODUCTIONS
SpaceMonkey's Alliance
441
|
Posted - 2013.08.13 18:44:00 -
[8] - Quote
Malcolm Shinhwa wrote:I'm unclear how CCP corporate policy should keep an insurance company from paying out on property covered by a policy.
Oh absolutely. They are denying the claim because they believe she has stolen her own goods to file a fraudulent claim. The discussion about the legality of her income is separate.
The Indecisive Noob - A new EVE Fan Blog for news and stuff. |
Remiel Pollard
Layman's terms
TAXU
1618
|
Posted - 2013.08.13 18:49:00 -
[9] - Quote
Lucas Kell wrote:Malcolm Shinhwa wrote:I'm unclear how CCP corporate policy should keep an insurance company from paying out on property covered by a policy. Oh absolutely. They are denying the claim because they believe she has stolen her own goods to file a fraudulent claim. The discussion about the legality of her income is separate.
If AAMI have reason to suspect the claim is fraudulent, based on their reputation, there's a good chance her claim is fraudulent. They wouldn't reject it on these grounds without an investigation that finds these grounds factual. Unless they've gone totally darkside, which would suck for Australia's reputation for having some of the most trustworthy banks and insurance companies in the world.
But, that's what the trial is for, and I may have just tipped off a legal contact of mine at AAMI, anonymously of course, regarding the matter of a legally binding contract with CCP, ie the EULA, that forbids this action in the first place. As a journalist, I have a few friends in low places that might mean your contribution, Mr Kell, may not go completely unheard.
You don't scare me. I've been to Jita. |
Taiwanistan
301
|
Posted - 2013.08.13 18:58:00 -
[10] - Quote
it's more about insurance fraud via faked robbery, than gold farming.
TA on wis: "when we have a feature that is its own functional ecosystem of gameplay then hooks into the greater ecosystem of EVE as a whole, and it provides good replayability."
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Pew Terror
Tribal Liberation Force
Minmatar Republic
3
|
Posted - 2013.08.13 19:06:00 -
[11] - Quote
People are stupidly overrating real money...
I mean that stuff cant even buy proper spaceships. |
Remiel Pollard
Layman's terms
TAXU
1618
|
Posted - 2013.08.13 19:06:00 -
[12] - Quote
Taiwanistan wrote:it's more about insurance fraud via faked robbery, than gold farming.
The judge has directly addressed the legality of gold farming, which makes it part and parcel of the case.
You don't scare me. I've been to Jita. |
S Byerley
The Manhattan Engineer District
111
|
Posted - 2013.08.13 19:22:00 -
[13] - Quote
Remiel Pollard wrote:But, that's what the trial is for, and I may have just tipped off a legal contact of mine at AAMI, anonymously of course, regarding the matter of a legally binding contract with CCP, ie the EULA, that forbids this action in the first place. As a journalist, I have a few friends in low places that might mean your contribution, Mr Kell, may not go completely unheard.
**** journalists for perpetuating this EULA nonsense.
I'm obviously no lawyer, but I know damn well that unless Australia rules the activity illegal (rather than just in breach of contract - and it seems like they'd rather just tax it normally) it has no bearing on a separate insurance claim. |
Kaarous Aldurald
ROC Academy
The ROC
741
|
Posted - 2013.08.13 19:24:00 -
[14] - Quote
...be trippin'.
Not posting on my main, and loving it.-á Because free speech.-á |
Kaarous Aldurald
ROC Academy
The ROC
741
|
Posted - 2013.08.13 19:26:00 -
[15] - Quote
S Byerley wrote:Remiel Pollard wrote:But, that's what the trial is for, and I may have just tipped off a legal contact of mine at AAMI, anonymously of course, regarding the matter of a legally binding contract with CCP, ie the EULA, that forbids this action in the first place. As a journalist, I have a few friends in low places that might mean your contribution, Mr Kell, may not go completely unheard. **** journalists for perpetuating this EULA nonsense. I'm obviously no lawyer, but I know damn well that unless Australia rules the activity illegal (rather than just in breach of contract - and it seems like they'd rather just tax it normally) it has no bearing on a separate insurance claim.
Bull. It was already mentioned that it was income earned through breach of a EULA, which is a legal contract. Earnings made expressly through breach of a legal contract are forfeit at best, felony fraud at worst, in just about every western nation. (which is why most RMT is through China)
Not posting on my main, and loving it.-á Because free speech.-á |
Dalmont Delantee
DucKtape Unlimited
SpaceMonkey's Alliance
157
|
Posted - 2013.08.13 19:32:00 -
[16] - Quote
TBH she I hope she dies in a fraudulent insurance con fire. Gold farmers and gold buyers are the scum of the earth when we have a perfectly acceptable plex system.
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Remiel Pollard
Layman's terms
TAXU
1621
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Posted - 2013.08.13 19:33:00 -
[17] - Quote
S Byerley wrote:Remiel Pollard wrote:But, that's what the trial is for, and I may have just tipped off a legal contact of mine at AAMI, anonymously of course, regarding the matter of a legally binding contract with CCP, ie the EULA, that forbids this action in the first place. As a journalist, I have a few friends in low places that might mean your contribution, Mr Kell, may not go completely unheard. **** journalists for perpetuating this EULA nonsense. It doesn't take a lawyer to know that unless Australia rules the activity illegal (rather than just in breach of contract - and it seems like they'd rather just tax it normally) it has no bearing on a separate insurance claim.
In Australia, a breach of contract IS illegal, the EULA being the contract. Don't get mad just because you've got some personal problem with journalists, this is a perfectly sound legal argument.
You don't scare me. I've been to Jita. |
Malcolm Shinhwa
bad touches
160
|
Posted - 2013.08.13 19:46:00 -
[18] - Quote
I generally don't turn to internet forums for legal advise, but its my birthday so I'm going to treat myself. In what country and under what law would violating a EULA, by itself, be a criminal act resulting in state forfeiture of assets and felony charges?
I have 5 different chars that I play. This may be my main, or maybe not. I have no idea. |
Dalmont Delantee
DucKtape Unlimited
SpaceMonkey's Alliance
158
|
Posted - 2013.08.13 19:50:00 -
[19] - Quote
United States of Delantee. Please pass me all your assets and isk. Via contract please :P
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Lucas Kell
JSR1 AND GOLDEN GUARDIAN PRODUCTIONS
SpaceMonkey's Alliance
441
|
Posted - 2013.08.13 19:54:00 -
[20] - Quote
Malcolm Shinhwa wrote:I generally don't turn to internet forums for legal advise, but its my birthday so I'm going to treat myself. In what country and under what law would violating a EULA, by itself, be a criminal act resulting in state forfeiture of assets and felony charges?
Anyone breaching a contract would be liable to pay damages to the party on the other side of the contract. While not directly a criminal matter, intentionally breaching a contract to earn money would not leave you in a healthy legal situation as it could be seen as illegal earnings. Any money you do earn from it would belong to the company owning the game anyway, as they own the "property" you are selling unless they state otherwise. In the case of EVE, seeing as you can buy plex and GTCs legally, and convert them to cash, the breach of contract would be direct loss of earnings for CCP so you'd be liable for that too.
The Indecisive Noob - A new EVE Fan Blog for news and stuff. |
Murk Paradox
Red Tsunami
The Cursed Few
447
|
Posted - 2013.08.13 20:00:00 -
[21] - Quote
Remiel Pollard wrote:I laugh at this woman's loss. Why? Because it's people like this that ruin games like EVE Online that are not supposed to be pay-to-win by making it pay-to-win. Because the EVE Online EULA expressly forbids selling in-game items for real world money, and I hope whatever account(s) she's using in game to make the item transfers was one of the accounts in the recent wave of permabans. I hope she loses the case, I applaud the thieves for delivering such poetic (however illegal) justice, I applaud AAMI for denying her claim, and I hope she cries a lot over it.
There is nothing funny about the loss of anyone for any reason. She was very thorough and within the confines of the law on how she made a living and invested. Even as far as notating everything and reporting the items with receipts, to the insurance company.
The lawyers are trying to use the source of income as a way to criminalize the loss, which is unrelated.
Funnily enough, the country's law on the matter justifies the job.
You should laugh at phone sex operators who get raped too.
"But my favourite visual experience in Eve was a pipebombing run on a digital projector. Sure, the aliasing can never match the perfection of a 2160p image - but you can't beat a five metre space volcano on your wall." - Lord Maldoror(RnK)
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Lucas Kell
JSR1 AND GOLDEN GUARDIAN PRODUCTIONS
SpaceMonkey's Alliance
441
|
Posted - 2013.08.13 20:03:00 -
[22] - Quote
Murk Paradox wrote:Remiel Pollard wrote:I laugh at this woman's loss. Why? Because it's people like this that ruin games like EVE Online that are not supposed to be pay-to-win by making it pay-to-win. Because the EVE Online EULA expressly forbids selling in-game items for real world money, and I hope whatever account(s) she's using in game to make the item transfers was one of the accounts in the recent wave of permabans. I hope she loses the case, I applaud the thieves for delivering such poetic (however illegal) justice, I applaud AAMI for denying her claim, and I hope she cries a lot over it. There is nothing funny about the loss of anyone for any reason. She was very thorough and within the confines of the law on how she made a living and invested. Even as far as notating everything and reporting the items with receipts, to the insurance company. The lawyers are trying to use the source of income as a way to criminalize the loss, which is unrelated. Funnily enough, the country's law on the matter justifies the job. You should laugh at phone sex operators who get raped too.
So intentionally breaching a contract then fraudulently claiming theft is OK with you? As that's what this is saying is happening. Then to top it off, she can't prove anything because "all of my email accounts have been hacked, I swear!"
The Indecisive Noob - A new EVE Fan Blog for news and stuff. |
Heywood Djiblomi
Stay Frosty.
1
|
Posted - 2013.08.13 20:04:00 -
[23] - Quote
Remiel Pollard wrote:...most trustworthy banks and insurance companies in the world.
Trustworthy banks and insurance companies? That... is comedy gold. |
Murk Paradox
Red Tsunami
The Cursed Few
447
|
Posted - 2013.08.13 20:04:00 -
[24] - Quote
Kaarous Aldurald wrote:S Byerley wrote:Remiel Pollard wrote:But, that's what the trial is for, and I may have just tipped off a legal contact of mine at AAMI, anonymously of course, regarding the matter of a legally binding contract with CCP, ie the EULA, that forbids this action in the first place. As a journalist, I have a few friends in low places that might mean your contribution, Mr Kell, may not go completely unheard. **** journalists for perpetuating this EULA nonsense. I'm obviously no lawyer, but I know damn well that unless Australia rules the activity illegal (rather than just in breach of contract - and it seems like they'd rather just tax it normally) it has no bearing on a separate insurance claim. Bull. It was already mentioned that it was income earned through breach of a EULA, which is a legal contract. Earnings made expressly through breach of a legal contract are forfeit at best, felony fraud at worst, in just about every western nation. (which is why most RMT is through China)
Strangely enough, the game's dev/GM staff is not a part of those aforementioned legal preceedings.
The EULA is a witchunt at best, as it is between an insurance company and it's client.
"But my favourite visual experience in Eve was a pipebombing run on a digital projector. Sure, the aliasing can never match the perfection of a 2160p image - but you can't beat a five metre space volcano on your wall." - Lord Maldoror(RnK)
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Heywood Djiblomi
Stay Frosty.
1
|
Posted - 2013.08.13 20:05:00 -
[25] - Quote
Lucas Kell wrote:...fraudulently claiming theft is OK with you?
Evidence? |
Heywood Djiblomi
Stay Frosty.
1
|
Posted - 2013.08.13 20:09:00 -
[26] - Quote
Remiel Pollard wrote:As a journalist, I have a few friends in low places...
That sounds very familiar... like carebears who rage after being ganked and claim to have powerful friends in nullsec. |
Remiel Pollard
Layman's terms
TAXU
1622
|
Posted - 2013.08.13 20:18:00 -
[27] - Quote
Heywood Djiblomi wrote:Remiel Pollard wrote:...most trustworthy banks and insurance companies in the world. Trustworthy banks and insurance companies? That... is comedy gold.
Quote mining is fun and all, but that statement should begin with "Some of..." as in "some of the most trusted...." etc.
You might find it amusing, but it's a statistically supported fact. Australia's Commonwealth Bank and NAB tie for the 12th safest banks in the entire world..
You don't scare me. I've been to Jita. |
Heywood Djiblomi
Stay Frosty.
1
|
Posted - 2013.08.13 20:21:00 -
[28] - Quote
I believe you misinterpreted my message, so let me bring some clarity:
Trustworthy banks and insurance companies are like unicorns - they do not exist. |
Remiel Pollard
Layman's terms
TAXU
1622
|
Posted - 2013.08.13 20:22:00 -
[29] - Quote
Heywood Djiblomi wrote:Remiel Pollard wrote:As a journalist, I have a few friends in low places... That sounds very familiar... like carebears who rage after being ganked and claim to have powerful friends in nullsec.
I was only indicating that I've passed on the information. What it sounds like to you is irrelevant. Additionally, the difference is, carebears make such statements in order to save face and attempt to intimidate their aggressors. In other words, they do it as a threat. I'm not making a threat, I was addressing the fact that I have contacts, and have already used them. But because you'll probably never be aware of the result, and probably don't really care to begin with, you can brush it off as nothing and use it to get your rocks off by trolling me.
You don't scare me. I've been to Jita. |
Murk Paradox
Red Tsunami
The Cursed Few
447
|
Posted - 2013.08.13 20:22:00 -
[30] - Quote
Lucas Kell wrote:Murk Paradox wrote:Remiel Pollard wrote:I laugh at this woman's loss. Why? Because it's people like this that ruin games like EVE Online that are not supposed to be pay-to-win by making it pay-to-win. Because the EVE Online EULA expressly forbids selling in-game items for real world money, and I hope whatever account(s) she's using in game to make the item transfers was one of the accounts in the recent wave of permabans. I hope she loses the case, I applaud the thieves for delivering such poetic (however illegal) justice, I applaud AAMI for denying her claim, and I hope she cries a lot over it. There is nothing funny about the loss of anyone for any reason. She was very thorough and within the confines of the law on how she made a living and invested. Even as far as notating everything and reporting the items with receipts, to the insurance company. The lawyers are trying to use the source of income as a way to criminalize the loss, which is unrelated. Funnily enough, the country's law on the matter justifies the job. You should laugh at phone sex operators who get raped too. So intentionally breaching a contract then fraudulently claiming theft is OK with you? As that's what this is saying is happening. Then to top it off, she can't prove anything because "all of my email accounts have been hacked, I swear!"
You do not know that she fraudulently claimed theft. The case is not over as far as I've read . I*n fact, I'll quote it!
"In 2006, the Australian Taxation Office recognised gold farming as a taxable income source.
AAMI has counter-sued, accusing Ms Fincham of staging the theft in order to fraudulently claim on her policy."
So I guess it's up to the lawyer's to do god's work eh?
But laughing at theft and livelihood is bad.
If she is guilty, it still doesn't serve her right, as she will be sentenced or otherwise punished. If she is not guilty, it still isn't funny.
"But my favourite visual experience in Eve was a pipebombing run on a digital projector. Sure, the aliasing can never match the perfection of a 2160p image - but you can't beat a five metre space volcano on your wall." - Lord Maldoror(RnK)
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