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Josarian Lysandor
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Posted - 2005.12.27 12:37:00 -
[61]
 Originally by: Ioudas Iskariotes
I actually find it kind of amusing that certain amounts of dishonesty are acceptable while others are not.
There is dishonesty and there is dishonor.
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Someone wormed there way into your trust and robbed your corp? Tough, stealing is a part of the game, don't trust anyone.
Stealing is part of the game, so is dishonor. They both have consequences, both player powered.
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Someone baited a can and when you took the loot flew in with a raven and fragged you? Tough you shoulda known the consequences and if you didn't chalk it up to a lesson learned.
Ignorance is never an excuse.
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Someone invites you on a complex run and when you show up you find yourself face to face with 3 bruisers and lose your ship? Tough pirating is a legitimate part of the game and you should have known not to trust anyone.
They never mentioned it being anything but a gank. Granted they never mentioned it being a gank either. But nowhere did they say they wouldn't.
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Someone comes along your miner in low sec space and frags your ship as well as your pod without offering ransom? Tough, low sec space is rough and if you can't handle the risks you shouldn't be there.
It happens.
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You offer a ransom and someone blows you up anyways? HOLY MOLY! Which hunt! That person is dishonerable! I can't believe they had the nevrve to go there!
.
.
.
It's pathetic really.
You are incorrect.
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And I'll tell you why.
Me too, Player A offers to pay a toll. Player B accepts it. Player B breaks the toll agreement.
Could you point me to the part where Player B denied the toll?
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1)It's a video game and hence nothing done in the game can be immoral, except for playing in a way not designed by the game mechanics and hence ruining the game itself. If it is not limited by game mechanics it isn't immoral. We ar enot killing real people or stealing real stuff. No such thing as immorality.
Immorality is decided by society. Eve has a society.
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2)The real reason people get all crazy about not honoring a ransom is because it makes it that much harder for other pirates to get their ransoms. Tough, if that's they way someone wants to play their game, then that's how it is. He will pay the consequences for his actions and guess what other people may too. But then that could be said of anyone in the game.
Honor is good for more than killing someone you dislike. Honor is easily hurt, and hard to heal. Eve is not a game where you can **** up and go on as if things are the same.
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3)Someone said that it was "Bad business". Well not everyone plays the game to be businessmen/women. And if killing someone is a lot more important to the guy than the money, who are you to argue with that? There are a lot of motivations in the world. Money is one...Revenge is another.
You are absolutely right of course. He has every right to play the way he wants. But he still has to deal with the consequences of it. Whether they matter to him or not makes no difference. Someday something similar might happen to him...but then it would be karma.
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4)Everyone gets the idea that pirates(or anyone who plays) have to all be out there acting like Errol Flynn in Captain Blood... But pirates weren't like that. What about Edward Teach, what about William Kidd or Calico Jack? What about the murdering, pillaging true villians of history? I'm not saying that everyone should act like that. What I'm saying is that if someone wishes to, who are you to say they are wrong?
Nowhere is it said he was wrong. It was said he is weak, cowardly, dishonorable, and lacking integrity.
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Don't kill people if you don't want people mad at you.
Nothing wrong with that advice.
In summary:
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Blah
~Victory is the weakness of the enemy.
I began as ActiveX, I am no longer. I became Sobeseki Pawi, I will be no longer. |
Jane Vladmir
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Posted - 2005.12.27 13:34:00 -
[62]
Josarian Lysandor summed it up.
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Velsharoon
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Posted - 2005.12.27 13:40:00 -
[63]
You dont take the **** with tolls etc, offering 3m was a slap in the face to all ready bruised ego. You should have offered what he lost plus a bit extra to leave, and have him say "yes I will let you leave without attacking you and none of my friends will", as thats what a pirate does.
Having made that point you DO NOT break your word once given, as this person had. So PA for the lose.
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Zarithas
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Posted - 2005.12.27 13:44:00 -
[64]
Originally by: Jane Vladmir
After being stuck in a system for 3 hours I decide on trying to get the single camper holding me back to allow me through via toll.
I decide to convo him and here's the rest:
Damious > yes?
Jane Vladmir > Hi
Jane Vladmir > You offering a toll?
Damious > what you have in mind?
Jane Vladmir > 3m to pass through in my pod.
Damious > you must hav more implants than that cinse you're offering toll
Damious > yes?
Jane Vladmir > Nope, just if I get podded I'll get sent to the other side of EVE, and
I'm an outlaw so it takes time to move around, you see.
Jane Vladmir > My clone costs 4m, I'm offering you 3m to pass through.
Damious > well, why are you guys hanging around here anyway?
Jane Vladmir > Nice 0.0 traffic and goot low sec systems.
Jane Vladmir > good*
Damious > lolz, so is down south :)
Damious > anyway, 3m sounds good
Jane Vladmir > Allright, sending.
Damious > got it
Damious > bye
After that I warped to the gate at 15km and he still popped me.
I had implants worth around 200m.
I re-convo him and here's what I got.
Jane Vladmir > What the f***?
Damious > you killed my coert costing me 40mil few days ago, this is a small token
of apprecaition thanks
Jane Vladmir > I sent you the toll?
Damious > sent back, I am not th epirate
Damious > happy travelling and hope to pod you gain
I have never in my whole 2 years ransomed someone and still popped him.
That's low.
I hope he gets kicked out of his corp, I mean that's not good christmas spirit. 
Er. If you had implants worth around 200m; then why the hell were you travelling through low sec (or was it 0.0?) and then convo-ing the gate camper. I also hope he gets kicked out of his corp, he's complete scum, but I also think that you shouldn't exactly stick expensive implants in your head if you're an outlaw.
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wtfbbq
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Posted - 2005.12.27 14:20:00 -
[65]
Originally by: Damious
Edited by: Damious on 27/12/2005 06:03:05
I rerely visit this forum (last was good 8 months ago) since all posts are mostly 'yarr','baaaaa' etc. But here it goes since you announced about your upcoming whine in our private convo.
Seriously, being in F-E/PA/NBSI space and HAVING killed some of my alliance mates you expected to pass thru? I am fairly sure everyone will bakc me on this one and too bad I broke you heart, ms. multi ships/pods killer. Personally you never asked for ransom even though you had multiple pods webbed/scrambled so why would you be granted this priviledge?
You are not welcomed in this region of space unless you clear your act (doubtfully).
Thank you.
Then just say no to the toll stinking carebear.
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Mira deVorsha
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Posted - 2005.12.27 14:50:00 -
[66]
Originally by: Tyrrax Thorrk
Whether it was stupid or not is entirely beside the point, the guy made a deal and then betrayed his word, Famine seems to think it's entirely okay and perfectly normal behavior, that's what I find to be stupid.
Karma tbh. We already know that Jane didn't offer the chance she wanted from him (or any of his corp for that matter), so why should he return the favour?
She got what she pretty much dished out to others. The 3 million was a joke amount and I am surprised that even Jane would offer that amount knowing that others would know her loadout.
It was about as honourable as leaving cans for people to steal or camping a gate, but it is not like Jane is somehow the victim here.
Prehaps if she practised what she is preaching then people might not trick her into getting podded.
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Mira deVorsha
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Posted - 2005.12.27 14:53:00 -
[67]
Originally by: Ioudas Iskariotes
Wrote some stuff
Perfect description.
Btw everyone going on about him taking the toll, he didn't. He gave it back.
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FoRGyL
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Posted - 2005.12.27 14:54:00 -
[68]
Originally by: Mira deVorsha
Originally by: Tyrrax Thorrk
Whether it was stupid or not is entirely beside the point, the guy made a deal and then betrayed his word, Famine seems to think it's entirely okay and perfectly normal behavior, that's what I find to be stupid.
Karma tbh. We already know that Jane didn't offer the chance she wanted from him (or any of his corp for that matter), so why should he return the favour?
She got what she pretty much dished out to others. The 3 million was a joke amount and I am surprised that even Jane would offer that amount knowing that others would know her loadout.
It was about as honourable as leaving cans for people to steal or camping a gate, but it is not like Jane is somehow the victim here.
Prehaps if she practised what she is preaching then people might not trick her into getting podded.
During this time did Jane ever broke her word?
I think I can surley say no, thing is no wrong with podding if he haden't taken the toll period!!
Lowlife carebears!(same **** with 1 vs1 with a  )
-out-
*********************************************************
Pay or don't!
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Mira deVorsha
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Posted - 2005.12.27 15:01:00 -
[69]
Edited by: Mira deVorsha on 27/12/2005 15:02:05
Originally by: FoRGyL
During this time did Jane ever broke her word?
Do you have an instance of where Jane showed mercy to that Corp or to that guy.
Put it another way, you cost a guy 40 million in damages earlier and now hes camping a gate in a system where you are in a pod. What do you personally think your chances are of getting out of that system if you (a) point out to the camper that you are in the system and (b) you only offer 3 million.
It has less to do with dishonour and more to do with stupidity.
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Zoea
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Posted - 2005.12.27 15:05:00 -
[70]
You're not allowed to be dishonest to a person who is your enemy and killed you and your friends recently?
You PVPed with implants, and tried to get past a camp with them, even though we have clone transfer now?
Duh!
Ps stopped reading somewhere in Page 2, nm hey :)
-=-=-=-==-=--=-=-=--=-=--==-=--¼=-==--=-=-=--==-=--=-=-=-=-=-==-=-
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Jane Vladmir
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Posted - 2005.12.27 15:13:00 -
[71]
Originally by: Mira deVorsha
Edited by: Mira deVorsha on 27/12/2005 15:02:05
Originally by: FoRGyL
During this time did Jane ever broke her word?
Do you have an instance of where Jane showed mercy to that Corp or to that guy.
Put it another way, you cost a guy 40 million in damages earlier and now hes camping a gate in a system where you are in a pod. What do you personally think your chances are of getting out of that system if you (a) point out to the camper that you are in the system and (b) you only offer 3 million.
It has less to do with dishonour and more to do with stupidity.
You just don't get it do you. We're not talking about the risk of having implants, not my budget nor the offer I made. We're talking about tricking someone into paying a toll and still killing him. 
Stop this idioticy, you just don't get away with offering a toll and breaking the terms.
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Mira deVorsha
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Posted - 2005.12.27 15:18:00 -
[72]
Originally by: Jane Vladmir
You just don't get it do you. We're not talking about the risk of having implants, not my budget nor the offer I made. We're talking about tricking someone into paying a toll and still killing him.
Stop this idioticy, you just don't get away with offering a toll and breaking the terms.
I get it fine. You got tricked because 3 million wouldn't pay off someone you killed before. Clearly they had a better memory then you.
Seriously, 3 million toll? What were you thinking? If I was you I would take it as a 200 million lesson in to remember who you killed before and judge how much your worth before putting yourself into a position where your chances of getting killed are high.
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Jane Vladmir
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Posted - 2005.12.27 15:25:00 -
[73]
Edited by: Jane Vladmir on 27/12/2005 15:26:02
Originally by: Mira deVorsha
..before putting yourself into a position where your chances of getting killed are high.
Chances are high? This has never happent before and I've payed dozens of tolls, and since that player could fly a Zealot I thought he had atleast some good game experience.
EDIT: And yeah, since he believed I didn't have any implants and that my clone was 4m the 3m was a good offer, if I'd go alot higher he'd likely call the bluff and make the toll alot higher, and probably still kill me when he'd see me.
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Mira deVorsha
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Posted - 2005.12.27 15:28:00 -
[74]
Originally by: Jane Vladmir
Chances are high? This has never happent before and I've payed dozens of tolls, and since that player could fly a Zealot I thought he had atleast some good game experience.
Yes he was experienced enough to remember who you were and what you did.
I doubt very much if the situation was reversed you would be on here bragging about how you killed someone who cost you so much money.. actually I can make a good bet you will in the future.
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Jane Vladmir
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Posted - 2005.12.27 15:30:00 -
[75]
Edited by: Jane Vladmir on 27/12/2005 15:32:05
Originally by: Mira deVorsha
Originally by: Jane Vladmir
Chances are high? This has never happent before and I've payed dozens of tolls, and since that player could fly a Zealot I thought he had atleast some good game experience.
Yes he was experienced enough to remember who you were and what you did.
I doubt very much if the situation was reversed you would be on here bragging about how you killed someone who cost you so much money.. actually I can make a good bet you will in the future.
And on what grounds do you assume this?
I've never broken my word on a toll, and I don't brag about my kills on the forums. And 40m is not alot of money.
EDIT: And by looking at your ingame character you're very likely an alt, if not fairly new to the game.
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Mira deVorsha
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Posted - 2005.12.27 15:38:00 -
[76]
Originally by: Jane Vladmir
And 40m is not alot of money.
So why didn't you offer that instead of 3million to protect your Imps?
Quote:
EDIT: And by looking at your ingame character you're very likely an alt, if not fairly new to the game.
Assumptions assumptions. :p
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ZzeusS
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Posted - 2005.12.27 15:39:00 -
[77]
Originally by: Jane Vladmir
Stop this idioticy, you just don't get away with offering a toll and breaking the terms.
You don't? :)
How long have you been playing Eve?
They've been doing this since a couple weeks or so after release when the first cruiser hit 0.0.
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Jane Vladmir
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Posted - 2005.12.27 15:43:00 -
[78]
Originally by: ZzeusS
Originally by: Jane Vladmir
Stop this idioticy, you just don't get away with offering a toll and breaking the terms.
You don't? :)
How long have you been playing Eve?
They've been doing this since a couple weeks or so after release when the first cruiser hit 0.0.
They've not been getting away with it seeing they get reported and thus don't get to ransom people and often get kicked out of their corps etc.
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Masta Killa
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Posted - 2005.12.27 15:44:00 -
[79]
PA never change tbfh.
--------------------------------------
Hail Stian Allaince and the emperor who can't spell. ;]
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FoRGyL
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Posted - 2005.12.27 15:47:00 -
[80]
Originally by: Mira deVorsha
Originally by: Jane Vladmir
And 40m is not alot of money.
So why didn't you offer that instead of 3million to protect your Imps?
Quote:
EDIT: And by looking at your ingame character you're very likely an alt, if not fairly new to the game.
Assumptions assumptions. :p
Dosen't matter if it was 1 isk, your a talking about another thing really you don't seem to get it and are most likly Dent's alt viewing your posts in here!(yes, assumption)
Enough about this what she did before crap or how much she offered.
Could have offerd an exotic dancer still upp to the man without a word to accept it or not and now he did and here we are.
PLz say u get it?
-out-
*********************************************************
Pay or don't!
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Mira deVorsha
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Posted - 2005.12.27 15:56:00 -
[81]
I am not dents alt.
I am just finding the thread hilarious. You have someone who got smacked in revenge thinking they were in fact being smart and getting away with a pittance. Then coming on here demanding they were the victim.
 Its like a carebear coming on saying its unfair that someone attacked them without thier permission first.
I'm done.. but keep posting about how he dun you wrong.
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bsspewer
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Posted - 2005.12.27 16:01:00 -
[82]
Edited by: bsspewer on 27/12/2005 16:03:19
Ok, here's my fifteen cents worth.
Firstly, you lieing to him about how much your clone costs and how many implants you have was an insult to his intelligence. Anyone who can fly a zealot knows how to look up a characters employment history and note how long they have been playing, and therefore can make a reasonable assumption on how many skillpoints you have. Based on this assumption they can set a price on your head. It would have been differant if you offered 30m, because that sounds like a reasonable toll. Yet you decided to imply that he was an idiot and wouldn't be able to tell you were worth more then 3m. Yay on him.
While I don't condone killing after ransoming, there are always justifications for peoples actions. You were an idiot, he was tactful, you loose.
You also claim your post on this forum was not to whine and receive sympothy, but to humiliate him for his actions. You lie a second time. Your quick, constant, and defending replies show that you are feeling like a battered dog in a corner. When he podded you he knew, as anyone would, that you would try tricks to "smear" his name. He was prepared by not caring. How do you smear a pirate's name anyways? The worse you talk of someone the more they become a pirate.
For those of you asking he be kicked from the corp, I hope he won't be, and will be sending the directors emails praising them for his actions. An obvious habitual liar does not deserve the right to be trusted, nor should he expect trust from anyone in return.
Those others that claim you will not be doing business with him again, I have a question for you. When have you dealt business with him in the past? Any pirate knows about alt characters for this very reason. You don't conduct business with obvious bad business reps. You always have someone who appears innocent and trusting to do that. It's all about being evil.
If anything, Jane was the idiot here. And for every dollar sent to Jane for her loss, I will send a dollar to Damious.
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Tariq Steel
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Posted - 2005.12.27 16:08:00 -
[83]
That's the way it goes these glorious days in the Eve universe. That's why I changed my bio explaining my view on ransoming: I DON'T PAY THEM. Paid one once and still got my ship destroyed and podded. So now I'm an industrialist with an itchy trigger finger. Heck, I even send my Beserkers IIs at 'roids if they glance at me wrong. |
Jane Vladmir
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Posted - 2005.12.27 16:10:00 -
[84]
Originally by: Mira deVorsha
I am not dents alt.
I am just finding the thread hilarious. You have someone who got smacked in revenge thinking they were in fact being smart and getting away with a pittance. Then coming on here demanding they were the victim.
Its like a carebear coming on saying its unfair that someone attacked them without thier permission first.
I'm done.. but keep posting about how he dun you wrong.
That post shows about about as much intellect you have.
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Xendie
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Posted - 2005.12.27 16:12:00 -
[85]
he agreed to a toll to let jane pass.
he didnt honor his word.
=he is scum.
i hear all day how pirates are scum and yap-yap-yap and so one.
yet it is always alliance members and certain merc corps with inflated airfilled ego brains the size of jupiter who cannot keep one single word.
the only ones who actually are capable of keeping their words about such a matter if agreed upon is -V- alliance when LD is in charge.
the rest of the alliance gutter is filled with lots of crap mental persons like Damious.
and they are the same people who are crying and sending the pirates hatemail everyday.
a man/woman/trans is only as good as his word is worth.
the circumstances doesnt matter, if you cant keep the word dont give the word either.
--------
Originally by: F'nog
This would be great, because lag is not at all a problem currently.
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Goberth Ludwig
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Posted - 2005.12.27 16:16:00 -
[86]
Jane since your not a noob, I am sure u know how fast anyone thats in an alliance can make 3 mil (about 120 seconds of ratting?) and how good he would look to his mates bringing your corpse back.
So yeh, what the PA dude did was lame but unless u sold ur account I cant believe u didnt see this one coming :s
- Gob (also known as Admiral Goberius) |
sully lang
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Posted - 2005.12.27 16:28:00 -
[87]
wasnt the toll returned to you?
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Ardvaark Ratnik
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Posted - 2005.12.27 16:35:00 -
[88]
Heh, this has nothing to do with lying or distrust. What this has to do with is the fact that Jane had killed him a few days earlier and this is RETRIBUTION. If Jane cannot remember who she killed, that is her fault. If I had the chance to do the same, I would. Revenge by hook or crook.
Jane, you obviously forgot who you were dealing with, or didn't care who you were killing earlier in the week. People who die and get podded have very long memories. People who do the killing obviously have short memories and this time it cost.
Such is life.
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Jenny Spitfire
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Posted - 2005.12.27 16:45:00 -
[89]
Originally by: Ardvaark Ratnik
Jane, you obviously forgot who you were dealing with, or didn't care who you were killing earlier in the week. People who die and get podded have very long memories. People who do the killing obviously have short memories and this time it cost.
Such is life.
Hmmm, this reminds me of a RL saying, "When you win a fight, you will be victorious and will never remember about the victory but the person who loses the fight will always remember about the victory until he/she goes into the grave."
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RecruitMe@NOINT! |
sully lang
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Posted - 2005.12.27 16:47:00 -
[90]
me thinks its possibly a case of sour grapes a pirate was out pirated by a law biding citizen .beaten at their own dubious profession.
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