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Damious broke my heart today.

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Jane Vladmir	Posted - 2005.12.27 05:40:00 - [1] After being stuck in a system for 3 hours I decide on trying to get the single camper holding me back to allow me through via toll. I decide to convo him and here's the rest: Damious > yes? Jane Vladmir > Hi Jane Vladmir > You offering a toll? Damious > what you have in mind? Jane Vladmir > 3m to pass through in my pod. Damious > you must hav more implants than that cinse you're offering toll Damious > yes? Jane Vladmir > Nope, just if I get podded I'll get sent to the other side of EVE, and I'm an outlaw so it takes time to move around, you see. Jane Vladmir > My clone costs 4m, I'm offering you 3m to pass through. Damious > well, why are you guys hanging around here anyway? Jane Vladmir > Nice 0.0 traffic and goot low sec systems. Jane Vladmir > good* Damious > lolz, so is down south :) Damious > anyway, 3m sounds good Jane Vladmir > Allright, sending. Damious > got it Damious > bye After that I warped to the gate at 15km and he still popped me. I had implants worth around 200m. I re-convo him and here's what I got. Jane Vladmir > What the f***? Damious > you killed my coert costing me 40mil few days ago, this is a small token of apprecaition thanks Jane Vladmir > I sent you the toll? Damious > sent back, I am not th epirate Damious > happy travelling and hope to pod you gain I have never in my whole 2 years ransomed someone and still popped him. That's low. I hope he gets kicked out of his corp, I mean that's not good christmas spirit.
Grankor	Posted - 2005.12.27 05:45:00 - [2]
Leno	Posted - 2005.12.27 05:46:00 - [3] yeah he should of just sent it back and said no, i mean sure he gave the isk back but not b/c it was an accident but b/c he fully intended to anyway. tho even understanding the guys feelings id say he really shouldnt have done that. --------------- RIP - Smoske, My Friend
Drunkeh	Posted - 2005.12.27 05:48:00 - [4]
Vanecrox	Posted - 2005.12.27 05:50:00 - [5] Originally by: Jane Vladmir I mean that's not good christmas spirit. Santa stays in Empire
Rasitiln	Posted - 2005.12.27 05:53:00 - [6] Its getting to where you cant trust anyone any more
Tyrrax Thorrk	Posted - 2005.12.27 05:54:00 - [7] I'm no fan of Warmongers, but if someone in my corp did that to anyone I'd pod my corp member for defecating on my corp's reputation. http://eve.klaki.net/
Mira deVorsha	Posted - 2005.12.27 05:55:00 - [8] Seriously what did you expect? Unless you know the person personally I wouldn't expect any kind of "Rules" to be held (even if I have my own).
Zavernus Hamarabi	Posted - 2005.12.27 05:59:00 - [9] The guy's a ****hole, i would also pod him if he was in my corp.
Damious	Posted - 2005.12.27 06:01:00 - [10] Edited by: Damious on 27/12/2005 06:03:05 I rerely visit this forum (last was good 8 months ago) since all posts are mostly 'yarr','baaaaa' etc. But here it goes since you announced about your upcoming whine in our private convo. Seriously, being in F-E/PA/NBSI space and HAVING killed some of my alliance mates you expected to pass thru? I am fairly sure everyone will bakc me on this one and too bad I broke you heart, ms. multi ships/pods killer. Personally you never asked for ransom even though you had multiple pods webbed/scrambled so why would you be granted this priviledge? You are not welcomed in this region of space unless you clear your act (doubtfully). Thank you. http://shinra.sgnonline.com/sigs/damious.jpg

Rasitiln	Posted - 2005.12.27 06:06:00 - [11] Originally by: Damious Edited by: Damious on 27/12/2005 06:03:05 I rerely visit this forum (last was good 8 months ago) since all posts are mostly 'yarr','baaaaa' etc. But here it goes since you announced about your upcoming whine in our private convo. Seriously, being in F-E/PA/NBSI space and HAVING killed some of my alliance mates you expected to pass thru? I am fairly sure everyone will bakc me on this one and too bad I broke you heart, ms. multi ships/pods killer. Personally you never asked for ransom even though you had multiple pods webbed/scrambled so why would you be granted this priviledge? You are not welcomed in this region of space unless you clear your act (doubtfully). Thank you. IT still doesnt make what you did any less wrong.
Damious	Posted - 2005.12.27 06:12:00 - [12] Edited by: Damious on 27/12/2005 06:12:11 I am leaving this forum for your exclusive enjoyment as it seems it is a confined place for piraets and likes to whine and pamper each other. For the closing words, yes, please come, and yes, buy gate pass from me I was born this way.
Rasitiln	Posted - 2005.12.27 06:20:00 - [13] People like you are why I dont accept 1 Vs 1 etc.
Josarian Lysandor	Posted - 2005.12.27 06:25:00 - [14] People like him are why the PA is laughed at. I'm embarassed to have been in it. ~Victory is the weakness of the enemy. I began as ActiveX, I am no longer. I became Sobeseki Pawi, I will be no longer.
Agricola Augusta	Posted - 2005.12.27 06:28:00 - [15] Despite being an Amarr slime, I agree with him. The cost of being a warmonger seems to be your enemies hatred, disdain and vengance. I don't think he needs to justify what he did as right or wrong, he wanted revenge and got it. Besides would you trust a strange Amarr in 0.0? 3mil is small change, especially compared to the satisfaction of podding an enemy. And considering you'd wasted him before without any mercy or pity you'd be rather naive to expect some now! Athene say "What goes around, comes around"
Mira deVorsha	Posted - 2005.12.27 06:29:00 - [16] This thread is funny. Player A kills others, Player B kills Player A, Player A comes on looking for some hugs and then Player B gets berated for it. did it not occur to the OP to take stock of who they were killing and to expect a doublecross? I mean its like someone crying because they got podded for looting cans.
Josarian Lysandor	Posted - 2005.12.27 06:38:00 - [17] Originally by: Mira deVorsha This thread is funny. Player A kills others, Player B kills Player A, Player A comes on looking for some hugs and then Player B gets berated for it. did it not occur to the OP to take stock of who they were killing and to expect a doublecross? I mean its like someone crying because they got podded for looting cans. More like Player A is playing the game which includes killing lots of Player Bs. Player A reaches an agreement with a random Player B. Player B breaches the agreement. Don't know about you, but if you don't hold up your end of an agreement...says alot about you. Don't make a deal with the Devil if you don't have the integrity to keep it. ~Victory is the weakness of the enemy. I began as ActiveX, I am no longer. I became Sobeseki Pawi, I will be no longer.
Sleyha	Posted - 2005.12.27 06:39:00 - [18] Awwww... here let me lend you a hanky.
Jane Vladmir	Posted - 2005.12.27 06:47:00 - [19] Originally by: Sleyha Awwww... here let me lend you a hanky. Thanks random victim.
Kerosene	Posted - 2005.12.27 06:49:00 - [20] Fair play to him imo. You got him previously, he got his revenge. He returned the isk. You should always remember who you've killed in the past and NEVER trust them. __ No corp - Taking it easy for a bit

Mira deVorsha	Posted - 2005.12.27 06:53:00 - [21] Originally by: Josarian Lysandor More like Player A is playing the game which includes killing lots of Player Bs. Player A reaches an agreement with a random Player B. Player B breaches the agreement. Except that Player B isn't random at all. They were intentionally there to kill player A. If player A had any cop they would say "Hmmm do I know this guy or his corp?". The agreement to toll was just a ruse to get the person into podding position. It was about as fair as someone calling out free cans where they are camping.
Agricola Augusta	Posted - 2005.12.27 07:01:00 - [22] Edited by: Agricola Augusta on 27/12/2005 07:01:49 Originally by: Jane Vladmir I hope he gets kicked out of his corp, I mean that's not good christmas spirit. Surely Christmass is the time to forgive others for thier sins? ;) Besides I think you're far more upset about losing 200mil in implants, than being lied to and tricked.
Famine Aligher'ri	Posted - 2005.12.27 07:06:00 - [23] Laugh, he podded you for being that dumb. It's your fault and I'm sorry to say it. I mean if you can't get out the system someone has got you camped in. Then DON'T ASK FOR A TOLL. It's the same thing with these other idiots who accept 1 on 1 fights with people they don't know. It's obvious you're going to get gangraped. I mean come on now, use some common sense. As to wither the PA sheep was wrong or not? Who cares, it was his space and his kill. If PA and any alliance was about honor then half there members would be kicked out of all alliances. It's not about honor, it's about winning. I podded you, you're stupid enough to actually believe me, so it's your fault you lost that 200million for being that much of a noob to believe your enemy.
BlackHawk177	Posted - 2005.12.27 07:07:00 - [24] No I'd be far more upset about being lied to and tricked... It's not about what I lost it's about the way it was lost. Can we shoot them yet?
Jane Vladmir	Posted - 2005.12.27 07:13:00 - [25] Originally by: BlackHawk177 No I'd be far more upset about being lied to and tricked... It's not about what I lost it's about the way it was lost. Exactly, if it had been my own fault I'd not been so angry with this. Ofcourse a nice little ingame ransoming program would've been nice here. This is a bad day for eve players all over.
j0sephine	Posted - 2005.12.27 07:15:00 - [26] "Jane Vladmir > 3m to pass through in my pod. Damious > you must hav more implants than that cinse you're offering toll Damious > yes? Jane Vladmir > Nope, just if I get podded I'll get sent to the other side of EVE, and I'm an outlaw so it takes time to move around, you see. Jane Vladmir > My clone costs 4m, I'm offering you 3m to pass through. (..) After that I warped to the gate at 15km and he still popped me. I had implants worth around 200m. I re-convo him and here's what I got. Jane Vladmir > What the f***? Damious > you killed my coert costing me 40mil few days ago, this is a small token of apprecaition thanks Jane Vladmir > I sent you the toll? Damious > sent back, I am not th epirate Damious > happy travelling and hope to pod you gain I have never in my whole 2 years ransomed someone and still popped him. That's low. I hope he gets kicked out of his corp, I mean that's not good christmas spirit. " Well, you lied to him and he lied to you. Who knows, maybe if you didn't try to be tricky about it and paid more than those 3 measly mil, you'd still have the implants intact... 50 mil of ransom would more than cover those 40 you costed him just few days earlier, and it's still way below 200 mil your implants were worth. Just something to ponder... ;s
BlackHawk177	Posted - 2005.12.27 07:18:00 - [27] Well... if he felt so distraught about the 40mil he lost, he could have told her 3mil wasn't good enough, and wanted 40mil or more for the losses she had caused. I personally would have said some not so nice things if offered that... but Still atleast I wouldn't have been lied to. Can we shoot them yet?
Jane Vladmir	Posted - 2005.12.27 07:25:00 - [28] Originally by: j0sephine Well, you lied to him and he lied to you. Who knows, maybe if you didn't try to be tricky about it and paid more than those 3 measly mil, you'd still have the implants intact... 50 mil of ransom would more than cover those 40 you costed him just few days earlier, and it's still way below 200 mil your implants were worth. Just something to ponder... ;s He should've said 3mills wasn't enough then.
Agricola Augusta	Posted - 2005.12.27 07:35:00 - [29] Originally by: Jane Vladmir Originally by: j0sephine Well, you lied to him and he lied to you. Who knows, maybe if you didn't try to be tricky about it and paid more than those 3 measly mil, you'd still have the implants intact... 50 mil of ransom would more than cover those 40 you costed him just few days earlier, and it's still way below 200 mil your implants were worth. Just something to ponder... ;s He should've said 3mills wasn't enough then. Seems he was more interested in revenge than money. Out of interest did you ransom him before killing him? And did you pod him as well as destroying his ship?
j0sephine	Posted - 2005.12.27 07:43:00 - [30] "He should've said 3mills wasn't enough then." Unless he believed your lie about having no implants and 4 mil clone, and decided between 3 mil and revenge the 3 millions was worth less...

Jane Vladmir	Posted - 2005.12.27 07:58:00 - [31] Originally by: j0sephine "He should've said 3mills wasn't enough then." Unless he believed your lie about having no implants and 4 mil clone, and decided between 3 mil and revenge the 3 millions was worth less... "He should've said 3mills wasn't enough then." Same thing with 1 vs 1's, you don't offer someone a 1 vs 1 to warp scramble him and get your friends to gank him.
Famine Aligher'ri	Posted - 2005.12.27 08:07:00 - [32] Originally by: Jane Vladmir Originally by: j0sephine "He should've said 3mills wasn't enough then." Unless he believed your lie about having no implants and 4 mil clone, and decided between 3 mil and revenge the 3 millions was worth less... "He should've said 3mills wasn't enough then." Same thing with 1 vs 1's, you don't offer someone a 1 vs 1 to warp scramble him and get your friends to gank him. Says who you? Learn to adapt and use common sense already. Why are you still going on about your own stupidity. It sucks it happen and I wish more people were honorable too but that isn't very realistic now is it? My god how cool would it be if terrorist wouldn't chop off the heads of innocent people in the real world. Learn to use that brain of yours and quit posting up whine threads of pointless arguements that's your own damn fault. He is not wrong, you were wrong. Wrong in thinking you could trust someone in EVE. First thing you should learn in EVE is to TRUST NOONE. I say it's green, you say it's BLUE!
Jane Vladmir	Posted - 2005.12.27 08:40:00 - [33] Originally by: Famine Aligher'ri Originally by: Jane Vladmir Originally by: j0sephine "He should've said 3mills wasn't enough then." Unless he believed your lie about having no implants and 4 mil clone, and decided between 3 mil and revenge the 3 millions was worth less... "He should've said 3mills wasn't enough then." Same thing with 1 vs 1's, you don't offer someone a 1 vs 1 to warp scramble him and get your friends to gank him. Says who you? Learn to adapt and use common sense already. Why are you still going on about your own stupidity. It sucks it happen and I wish more people were honorable too but that isn't very realistic now is it? My god how cool would it be if terrorist wouldn't chop off the heads of innocent people in the real world. Learn to use that brain of yours and quit posting up whine threads of pointless arguements that's your own damn fault. He is not wrong, you were wrong. Wrong in thinking you could trust someone in EVE. First thing you should learn in EVE is to TRUST NOONE. I say it's green, you say it's BLUE! You're stupid. And that was a terrible comparison.
Tyrrax Thorrk	Posted - 2005.12.27 09:08:00 - [34] I'm not a pirate. And yes Famine is stupid and apparently a stranger to the concept of honoring deals/contracts/promises. http://eve.klaki.net/
Famine Aligher'ri	Posted - 2005.12.27 09:13:00 - [35] Originally by: Tyrrax Thorrk I'm not a pirate. And yes Famine is stupid and apparently a stranger to the concept of honoring deals/contracts/promises. I'm sorry what? I'm stupid for not trusting anyone and if I was in her situtation I would of maybe had a better chance of saving my implants by NOT trusting him when he said I could pass. So again why is it i'm the stupid one for using more common sense then saying "Ok he will honor my 2 million isk and let me go". So maybe I would of lived and where she died I would of maybe gained much more? Like um keeping my 200million isk worth of implants. Do you people seriously think like this? Especialy you Tyrrax? God man i'm in the wrong buisness that's for sure. I need to start conning people instead of trying to be a pirate. Maybe I can get more people to hand over millions of isk based on this so called "Trust" we have in EVE now.
Christopher Multsanti	Posted - 2005.12.27 09:19:00 - [36] I agree with honourable ransoms and pirates, I also agree with honouring 1v1's. But for me what this guy did seems actually quite clever and sneaky. He had no intention of taking your isk, his only intention was to kill you...and he did it. I mean its not as if he took your isk podded you and then said in the convo.... haha you sux, i took your isk and podded you cos you are piwate. I don't know exactly why, but this doesn't feel like a dishounarble thing, just a very cheeky tactic. Death and Glory in H-PA
Mira deVorsha	Posted - 2005.12.27 09:24:00 - [37] Originally by: Tyrrax Thorrk I'm not a pirate. And yes Famine is stupid and apparently a stranger to the concept of honoring deals/contracts/promises. the only stupid person is one who thinks after ganking a corp and a member of that corp that the said person would allow them to leave a system for measly 3 million isk.
Famine Aligher'ri	Posted - 2005.12.27 09:29:00 - [38] Originally by: Mira deVorsha Originally by: Tyrrax Thorrk I'm not a pirate. And yes Famine is stupid and apparently a stranger to the concept of honoring deals/contracts/promises. the only stupid person is one who thinks after ganking a corp and a member of that corp that the said person would allow them to leave a system for measly 3 million isk. Shhh everyone in EVE is honorable. You're stupid for thinking otherwise. Don't be stupid, believe everything your enemy tells you... Otherwise you're stupid ok?
Meryl Stryfe	Posted - 2005.12.27 09:34:00 - [39] Edited by: Meryl Stryfe on 27/12/2005 09:36:18 Originally by: Mira deVorsha the only stupid person is one who thinks after ganking a corp and a member of that corp that the said person would allow them to leave a system for measly 3 million isk. Bingo! We have a winner. The whole truth never comes out in the first post. I kind of think keeping the isk would've added some extra cheek to this whole situation. This was not an example of a belt pirate not keeping his word, and shouldn't be treated as such. Insult + Injury = Teh Win But also props to Jane for not logging and taking the risk. PS: Famine, I have a bridge in escrow for you, claim it quick, it's a once-in-a-lifetime deal! -- AO refugee? pst!
Ralitge boyter	Posted - 2005.12.27 09:38:00 - [40] I would say you are right it is low of him to say ok and still kill you. On the other hand if he has to choose between revenge and 3M I cannot blame him for having his revenge. But as said he should not have said ok to the 3M if he wanted his revenge. Personaly I would kick him from my corp should a he be a member. I seriously do not like people who do not make good on their word. Since I also really dislike people whining about getting podded (no mater what the situation is) I hope next time you get podded you will not bother the rest of the EVE world with your dead. ------------------------------------------- Should you disagree with me, well I guess that is because I disagree with you. If you have a problem with that please feel free not to tell me.

sully lang	Posted - 2005.12.27 09:53:00 - [41] @ jane vladmir hahahahahahhahah what goes around comes around you deserve all you get . you podded me in vecamia while i was still relativley young you didnt even ransome me you popped my cyclone and called me a scum bag my char name was " lazlow lang" so boo hoo da poor pirate got podded TUFF cu out there i hope
Christopher Multsanti	Posted - 2005.12.27 09:56:00 - [42] Originally by: sully lang @ jane vladmir hahahahahahhahah what goes around comes around you deserve all you get . you podded me in vecamia while i was still relativley young you didnt even ransome me you popped my cyclone and called me a scum bag my char name was " lazlow lang" so boo hoo da poor pirate got podded TUFF cu out there i hope now Jane, like i said if the guy podded you and said that ^^. Then I would be totally on your side. Death and Glory in H-PA
Jane Vladmir	Posted - 2005.12.27 09:57:00 - [43] Originally by: Ralitge boyter I would say you are right it is low of him to say ok and still kill you. On the other hand if he has to choose between revenge and 3M I cannot blame him for having his revenge. But as said he should not have said ok to the 3M if he wanted his revenge. Personaly I would kick him from my corp should a he be a member. I seriously do not like people who do not make good on their word. Since I also really dislike people whining about getting podded (no mater what the situation is) I hope next time you get podded you will not bother the rest of the EVE world with your dead. I did not make this post to bother people with whinage and neither to try to get people¦s sympathy. I made this post to point out a pathetic player and to make that player pay for his low blow against me.
Jane Vladmir	Posted - 2005.12.27 10:00:00 - [44] Originally by: sully lang Edited by: sully lang on 27/12/2005 09:55:00 @ jane vladmir hahahahahahhahah what goes around comes around you deserve all you get . you popped me in vecamia while i was still relativley young you didnt even ransome me you popped my cyclone and called me a scum bag my char name was " lazlow lang" so boo hoo da poor pirate got podded TUFF cu out there i hope I sincerely doubt I called you a 'scum bag' random victim.
ddss	Posted - 2005.12.27 10:08:00 - [45] never ceases to amaze me ... pirates moaning about low blow ..imean come on , it comes with the territory ..he gave you your 3 mill back you lied about your impys .. i really cant see your complaint . duplicity seems to be a pirate way of life . the guy wanted his revenge so he changed his mind and podded you . dont tell me you havent done some really nasty stuff in your illustrious career
sully lang	Posted - 2005.12.27 10:12:00 - [46] i believe your exact words were "stayout of MY system scumbag"
sully lang	Posted - 2005.12.27 10:13:00 - [47] wow me n dd look like twins
sully lang	Posted - 2005.12.27 10:14:00 - [48] btw i like the tag " random victim " class jane... class
Jane Vladmir	Posted - 2005.12.27 10:27:00 - [49] Please don't try to change the conversation or get this post locked by flooding, I didn't make this post to argue with you what's morally right. Read my previous post about why I made it if you're still unclear on that.
Xendie	Posted - 2005.12.27 10:38:00 - [50] PA used to be nice ppl, now i see that they are lying cheating scum. i forsee many PA being screwed over on ransoms in the future though, and given Damious name to complain to. -------- Originally by: F'nog This would be great, because lag is not at all a problem currently.

sully lang	Posted - 2005.12.27 10:40:00 - [51] please explain why the guy was pathetic ?? just because he didnt follow your idea of how the game should be played was that it?. if so should we all conform and do what you want? i dont think so~! .. and is replying to a post called flooding now?
Jane Vladmir	Posted - 2005.12.27 10:48:00 - [52] Originally by: sully lang and is replying to a post called flooding now? Replying 4 times within 6 minutes is flooding afaik.
yard dog	Posted - 2005.12.27 10:57:00 - [53] ho ok im done
Josarian Lysandor	Posted - 2005.12.27 11:00:00 - [54] Damious knew Jane was in a pod...otherwise I doubt he would have even tried to interdict. But shooting defenseless persons isn't the topic. Anyhow an agreement was reached between two parties, but one party didn't uphold their end. This is what we who are in business call, bad. I can't say I would do business with Mr Damious now, and anyone associated with him at all would get a careful examination. Honor is so very rare in Eve...I doubt he knows what he should have done instead. ~Victory is the weakness of the enemy. I began as ActiveX, I am no longer. I became Sobeseki Pawi, I will be no longer.
Tyrrax Thorrk	Posted - 2005.12.27 11:02:00 - [55] I'm not saying Jane was smart to expect to be let by after paying 3 mil. Whether it was stupid or not is entirely beside the point, the guy made a deal and then betrayed his word, Famine seems to think it's entirely okay and perfectly normal behavior, that's what I find to be stupid. I dunno what jane was thinking believing someone from PA who he had recently pirated... I mean honestly, PA honoring a deal ? About as likely as PA honoring a 1vs1. Not gonna happen. http://eve.klaki.net/
Neon Genesis	Posted - 2005.12.27 11:17:00 - [56] Edited by: Neon Genesis on 27/12/2005 11:18:45 Jane convo'd you politely and asked you for a toll, you accepted, yet you still popped him... You are a snake sir. There, i just contributed nothing to your thread
Absolute Evil	Posted - 2005.12.27 11:45:00 - [57] I personally thinks its lame, another person with no honour so im gunna send ya some isk. And this guy will go on my to do list. Removed signature image, reduce filesize below 24000 bytes - Daigon UPC - PVP'ers Good and Bad, How Do You Want Peace? Through Talk Or In A Casket? We Decide! Peace My Brothers...
Ioudas Iskariotes	Posted - 2005.12.27 11:47:00 - [58] I actually find it kind of amusing that certain amounts of dishonesty are acceptable while others are not. Someone wormed there way into your trust and robbed your corp? Tough, stealing is a part of the game, don't trust anyone. Someone baited a can and when you took the loot flew in with a raven and fragged you? Tough you shoulda known the consequences and if you didn't chalk it up to a lesson learned. Someone invites you on a complex run and when you show up you find yourself face to face with 3 bruisers and lose your ship? Tough pirating is a legitimate part of the game and you should have known not to trust anyone. Someone comes along your miner in low sec space and frags your ship as well as your pod without offering ransom? Tough, low sec space is rough and if you can't handle the risks you shouldn't be there. You offer a ransom and someone blows you up anyways? HOLY MOLY! Which hunt! That person is dishonerable! I can't believe they had the nevrve to go there! . . . It's pathetic really. And I'll tell you why. 1)It's a video game and hence nothing done in the game can be immoral, except for playing in a way not designed by the game mechanics and hence ruining the game itself. If it is not limited by game mechanics it isn't immoral. We ar enot killing real people or stealing real stuff. No such thing as immorality. 2)The real reason people get all crazy about not honoring a ransom is because it makes it that much harder for other pirates to get their ransoms. Tough, if that's they way someone wants to play their game, then that's how it is. He will pay the consequences for his actions and guess what other people may too. But then that could be said of anyone in the game. 3)Someone said that it was "Bad business". Well not everyone plays the game to be businessmen/women. And if killing someone is a lot more important to the guy than the money, who are you to argue with that? There are a lot of motivations in the world. Money is one...Revenge is another. 4)Everyone gets the idea that pirates(or anyone who plays) have to all be out there acting like Errol Flynn in Captain Blood... But pirates weren't like that. What about Edward Teach, what about William Kidd or Calico Jack? What about the murdering, pillaging true villians of history? I'm not saying that everyone should act like that. What I'm saying is that if someone wishes to, who are you to say they are wrong? Don't kill people if you don't want people mad at you. Blah
FoRGyL	Posted - 2005.12.27 11:52:00 - [59] Edited by: FoRGyL on 27/12/2005 11:54:16 Originally by: j0sephine "Jane Vladmir > 3m to pass through in my pod. Damious > you must hav more implants than that cinse you're offering toll Damious > yes? Jane Vladmir > Nope, just if I get podded I'll get sent to the other side of EVE, and I'm an outlaw so it takes time to move around, you see. Jane Vladmir > My clone costs 4m, I'm offering you 3m to pass through. (..) After that I warped to the gate at 15km and he still popped me. I had implants worth around 200m. I re-convo him and here's what I got. Jane Vladmir > What the f*? Damious > you killed my coert costing me 40mil few days ago, this is a small token of apprecaition thanks Jane Vladmir > I sent you the toll? Damious > sent back, I am not th epirate Damious > happy travelling and hope to pod you gain I have never in my whole 2 years ransomed someone and still popped him. That's low. I hope he gets kicked out of his corp, I mean that's not good christmas spirit. " Well, you lied to him and he lied to you. Who knows, maybe if you didn't try to be tricky about it and paid more than those 3 measly mil, you'd still have the implants intact... 50 mil of ransom would more than cover those 40 you costed him just few days earlier, and it's still way below 200 mil your implants were worth. Just something to ponder... ;s Up to the other guy that isen't to bright to say in that case this is just wrong and u seem clever so think about it. If he was/is t he should have keept up camping not taken toll. Somethings is a nogo imho. -out- ******************************************************* Pay or don't!
ParMizaN	Posted - 2005.12.27 11:52:00 - [60] Yeah thats low ... kill him repeatedly if you ever see him Phenomena of ironies, cast the litany aside How intelligible, blessed be the forgetful

Josarian Lysandor	Posted - 2005.12.27 12:37:00 - [61] Originally by: Ioudas Iskariotes I actually find it kind of amusing that certain amounts of dishonesty are acceptable while others are not. There is dishonesty and there is dishonor. Quote: Someone wormed there way into your trust and robbed your corp? Tough, stealing is a part of the game, don't trust anyone. Stealing is part of the game, so is dishonor. They both have consequences, both player powered. Quote: Someone baited a can and when you took the loot flew in with a raven and fragged you? Tough you shoulda known the consequences and if you didn't chalk it up to a lesson learned. Ignorance is never an excuse. Quote: Someone invites you on a complex run and when you show up you find yourself face to face with 3 bruisers and lose your ship? Tough pirating is a legitimate part of the game and you should have known not to trust anyone. They never mentioned it being anything but a gank. Granted they never mentioned it being a gank either. But nowhere did they say they wouldn't. Quote: Someone comes along your miner in low sec space and frags your ship as well as your pod without offering ransom? Tough, low sec space is rough and if you can't handle the risks you shouldn't be there. It happens. Quote: You offer a ransom and someone blows you up anyways? HOLY MOLY! Which hunt! That person is dishonerable! I can't believe they had the nevrve to go there! . . . It's pathetic really. You are incorrect. Quote: And I'll tell you why. Me too, Player A offers to pay a toll. Player B accepts it. Player B breaks the toll agreement. Could you point me to the part where Player B denied the toll? Quote: 1)It's a video game and hence nothing done in the game can be immoral, except for playing in a way not designed by the game mechanics and hence ruining the game itself. If it is not limited by game mechanics it isn't immoral. We ar enot killing real people or stealing real stuff. No such thing as immorality. Immorality is decided by society. Eve has a society. Quote: 2)The real reason people get all crazy about not honoring a ransom is because it makes it that much harder for other pirates to get their ransoms. Tough, if that's they way someone wants to play their game, then that's how it is. He will pay the consequences for his actions and guess what other people may too. But then that could be said of anyone in the game. Honor is good for more than killing someone you dislike. Honor is easily hurt, and hard to heal. Eve is not a game where you can ** up and go on as if things are the same. Quote: 3)Someone said that it was "Bad business". Well not everyone plays the game to be businessmen/women. And if killing someone is a lot more important to the guy than the money, who are you to argue with that? There are a lot of motivations in the world. Money is one...Revenge is another. You are absolutely right of course. He has every right to play the way he wants. But he still has to deal with the consequences of it. Whether they matter to him or not makes no difference. Someday something similar might happen to him...but then it would be karma. Quote: 4)Everyone gets the idea that pirates(or anyone who plays) have to all be out there acting like Errol Flynn in Captain Blood... But pirates weren't like that. What about Edward Teach, what about William Kidd or Calico Jack? What about the murdering, pillaging true villians of history? I'm not saying that everyone should act like that. What I'm saying is that if someone wishes to, who are you to say they are wrong? Nowhere is it said he was wrong. It was said he is weak, cowardly, dishonorable, and lacking integrity. Quote: Don't kill people if you don't want people mad at you. Nothing wrong with that advice. In summary: Quote:** Blah ~Victory is the weakness of the enemy. I began as ActiveX, I am no longer. I became Sobeseki Pawi, I will be no longer.
Jane Vladmir	Posted - 2005.12.27 13:34:00 - [62] Josarian Lysandor summed it up.
Velsharoon	Posted - 2005.12.27 13:40:00 - [63] You dont take the **** with tolls etc, offering 3m was a slap in the face to all ready bruised ego. You should have offered what he lost plus a bit extra to leave, and have him say "yes I will let you leave without attacking you and none of my friends will", as thats what a pirate does. Having made that point you DO NOT break your word once given, as this person had. So PA for the lose.
Zarithas	Posted - 2005.12.27 13:44:00 - [64] Originally by: Jane Vladmir After being stuck in a system for 3 hours I decide on trying to get the single camper holding me back to allow me through via toll. I decide to convo him and here's the rest: Damious > yes? Jane Vladmir > Hi Jane Vladmir > You offering a toll? Damious > what you have in mind? Jane Vladmir > 3m to pass through in my pod. Damious > you must hav more implants than that cinse you're offering toll Damious > yes? Jane Vladmir > Nope, just if I get podded I'll get sent to the other side of EVE, and I'm an outlaw so it takes time to move around, you see. Jane Vladmir > My clone costs 4m, I'm offering you 3m to pass through. Damious > well, why are you guys hanging around here anyway? Jane Vladmir > Nice 0.0 traffic and goot low sec systems. Jane Vladmir > good* Damious > lolz, so is down south :) Damious > anyway, 3m sounds good Jane Vladmir > Allright, sending. Damious > got it Damious > bye After that I warped to the gate at 15km and he still popped me. I had implants worth around 200m. I re-convo him and here's what I got. Jane Vladmir > What the f*? Damious > you killed my coert costing me 40mil few days ago, this is a small token of apprecaition thanks Jane Vladmir > I sent you the toll? Damious > sent back, I am not th epirate Damious > happy travelling and hope to pod you gain I have never in my whole 2 years ransomed someone and still popped him. That's low. I hope he gets kicked out of his corp, I mean that's not good christmas spirit. Er. If you had implants worth around 200m; then why the hell** were you travelling through low sec (or was it 0.0?) and then convo-ing the gate camper. I also hope he gets kicked out of his corp, he's complete scum, but I also think that you shouldn't exactly stick expensive implants in your head if you're an outlaw.
wtfbbq	Posted - 2005.12.27 14:20:00 - [65] Originally by: Damious Edited by: Damious on 27/12/2005 06:03:05 I rerely visit this forum (last was good 8 months ago) since all posts are mostly 'yarr','baaaaa' etc. But here it goes since you announced about your upcoming whine in our private convo. Seriously, being in F-E/PA/NBSI space and HAVING killed some of my alliance mates you expected to pass thru? I am fairly sure everyone will bakc me on this one and too bad I broke you heart, ms. multi ships/pods killer. Personally you never asked for ransom even though you had multiple pods webbed/scrambled so why would you be granted this priviledge? You are not welcomed in this region of space unless you clear your act (doubtfully). Thank you. Then just say no to the toll stinking carebear.
Mira deVorsha	Posted - 2005.12.27 14:50:00 - [66] Originally by: Tyrrax Thorrk Whether it was stupid or not is entirely beside the point, the guy made a deal and then betrayed his word, Famine seems to think it's entirely okay and perfectly normal behavior, that's what I find to be stupid. Karma tbh. We already know that Jane didn't offer the chance she wanted from him (or any of his corp for that matter), so why should he return the favour? She got what she pretty much dished out to others. The 3 million was a joke amount and I am surprised that even Jane would offer that amount knowing that others would know her loadout. It was about as honourable as leaving cans for people to steal or camping a gate, but it is not like Jane is somehow the victim here. Prehaps if she practised what she is preaching then people might not trick her into getting podded.
Mira deVorsha	Posted - 2005.12.27 14:53:00 - [67] Originally by: Ioudas Iskariotes Wrote some stuff Perfect description. Btw everyone going on about him taking the toll, he didn't. He gave it back.
FoRGyL	Posted - 2005.12.27 14:54:00 - [68] Originally by: Mira deVorsha Originally by: Tyrrax Thorrk Whether it was stupid or not is entirely beside the point, the guy made a deal and then betrayed his word, Famine seems to think it's entirely okay and perfectly normal behavior, that's what I find to be stupid. Karma tbh. We already know that Jane didn't offer the chance she wanted from him (or any of his corp for that matter), so why should he return the favour? She got what she pretty much dished out to others. The 3 million was a joke amount and I am surprised that even Jane would offer that amount knowing that others would know her loadout. It was about as honourable as leaving cans for people to steal or camping a gate, but it is not like Jane is somehow the victim here. Prehaps if she practised what she is preaching then people might not trick her into getting podded. During this time did Jane ever broke her word? I think I can surley say no, thing is no wrong with podding if he haden't taken the toll period!! Lowlife carebears!(same ** with 1 vs1 with a ) -out- ******************************************************* Pay or don't!
Mira deVorsha	Posted - 2005.12.27 15:01:00 - [69] Edited by: Mira deVorsha on 27/12/2005 15:02:05 Originally by: FoRGyL During this time did Jane ever broke her word? Do you have an instance of where Jane showed mercy to that Corp or to that guy. Put it another way, you cost a guy 40 million in damages earlier and now hes camping a gate in a system where you are in a pod. What do you personally think your chances are of getting out of that system if you (a) point out to the camper that you are in the system and (b) you only offer 3 million. It has less to do with dishonour and more to do with stupidity.
Zoea	Posted - 2005.12.27 15:05:00 - [70] You're not allowed to be dishonest to a person who is your enemy and killed you and your friends recently? You PVPed with implants, and tried to get past a camp with them, even though we have clone transfer now? Duh! Ps stopped reading somewhere in Page 2, nm hey :) -=-=-=-==-=--=-=-=--=-=--==-=--¼=-==--=-=-=--==-=--=-=-=-=-=-==-=-

Jane Vladmir	Posted - 2005.12.27 15:13:00 - [71] Originally by: Mira deVorsha Edited by: Mira deVorsha on 27/12/2005 15:02:05 Originally by: FoRGyL During this time did Jane ever broke her word? Do you have an instance of where Jane showed mercy to that Corp or to that guy. Put it another way, you cost a guy 40 million in damages earlier and now hes camping a gate in a system where you are in a pod. What do you personally think your chances are of getting out of that system if you (a) point out to the camper that you are in the system and (b) you only offer 3 million. It has less to do with dishonour and more to do with stupidity. You just don't get it do you. We're not talking about the risk of having implants, not my budget nor the offer I made. We're talking about tricking someone into paying a toll and still killing him. Stop this idioticy, you just don't get away with offering a toll and breaking the terms.
Mira deVorsha	Posted - 2005.12.27 15:18:00 - [72] Originally by: Jane Vladmir You just don't get it do you. We're not talking about the risk of having implants, not my budget nor the offer I made. We're talking about tricking someone into paying a toll and still killing him. Stop this idioticy, you just don't get away with offering a toll and breaking the terms. I get it fine. You got tricked because 3 million wouldn't pay off someone you killed before. Clearly they had a better memory then you. Seriously, 3 million toll? What were you thinking? If I was you I would take it as a 200 million lesson in to remember who you killed before and judge how much your worth before putting yourself into a position where your chances of getting killed are high.
Jane Vladmir	Posted - 2005.12.27 15:25:00 - [73] Edited by: Jane Vladmir on 27/12/2005 15:26:02 Originally by: Mira deVorsha ..before putting yourself into a position where your chances of getting killed are high. Chances are high? This has never happent before and I've payed dozens of tolls, and since that player could fly a Zealot I thought he had atleast some good game experience. EDIT: And yeah, since he believed I didn't have any implants and that my clone was 4m the 3m was a good offer, if I'd go alot higher he'd likely call the bluff and make the toll alot higher, and probably still kill me when he'd see me.
Mira deVorsha	Posted - 2005.12.27 15:28:00 - [74] Originally by: Jane Vladmir Chances are high? This has never happent before and I've payed dozens of tolls, and since that player could fly a Zealot I thought he had atleast some good game experience. Yes he was experienced enough to remember who you were and what you did. I doubt very much if the situation was reversed you would be on here bragging about how you killed someone who cost you so much money.. actually I can make a good bet you will in the future.
Jane Vladmir	Posted - 2005.12.27 15:30:00 - [75] Edited by: Jane Vladmir on 27/12/2005 15:32:05 Originally by: Mira deVorsha Originally by: Jane Vladmir Chances are high? This has never happent before and I've payed dozens of tolls, and since that player could fly a Zealot I thought he had atleast some good game experience. Yes he was experienced enough to remember who you were and what you did. I doubt very much if the situation was reversed you would be on here bragging about how you killed someone who cost you so much money.. actually I can make a good bet you will in the future. And on what grounds do you assume this? I've never broken my word on a toll, and I don't brag about my kills on the forums. And 40m is not alot of money. EDIT: And by looking at your ingame character you're very likely an alt, if not fairly new to the game.
Mira deVorsha	Posted - 2005.12.27 15:38:00 - [76] Originally by: Jane Vladmir And 40m is not alot of money. So why didn't you offer that instead of 3million to protect your Imps? Quote: EDIT: And by looking at your ingame character you're very likely an alt, if not fairly new to the game. Assumptions assumptions. :p
ZzeusS	Posted - 2005.12.27 15:39:00 - [77] Originally by: Jane Vladmir Stop this idioticy, you just don't get away with offering a toll and breaking the terms. You don't? :) How long have you been playing Eve? They've been doing this since a couple weeks or so after release when the first cruiser hit 0.0.
Jane Vladmir	Posted - 2005.12.27 15:43:00 - [78] Originally by: ZzeusS Originally by: Jane Vladmir Stop this idioticy, you just don't get away with offering a toll and breaking the terms. You don't? :) How long have you been playing Eve? They've been doing this since a couple weeks or so after release when the first cruiser hit 0.0. They've not been getting away with it seeing they get reported and thus don't get to ransom people and often get kicked out of their corps etc.
Masta Killa	Posted - 2005.12.27 15:44:00 - [79] PA never change tbfh. -------------------------------------- Hail Stian Allaince and the emperor who can't spell. ;]
FoRGyL	Posted - 2005.12.27 15:47:00 - [80] Originally by: Mira deVorsha Originally by: Jane Vladmir And 40m is not alot of money. So why didn't you offer that instead of 3million to protect your Imps? Quote: EDIT: And by looking at your ingame character you're very likely an alt, if not fairly new to the game. Assumptions assumptions. :p Dosen't matter if it was 1 isk, your a talking about another thing really you don't seem to get it and are most likly Dent's alt viewing your posts in here!(yes, assumption) Enough about this what she did before crap or how much she offered. Could have offerd an exotic dancer still upp to the man without a word to accept it or not and now he did and here we are. PLz say u get it? -out- ********************************************************* Pay or don't!

Mira deVorsha	Posted - 2005.12.27 15:56:00 - [81] I am not dents alt. I am just finding the thread hilarious. You have someone who got smacked in revenge thinking they were in fact being smart and getting away with a pittance. Then coming on here demanding they were the victim. Its like a carebear coming on saying its unfair that someone attacked them without thier permission first. I'm done.. but keep posting about how he dun you wrong.
bsspewer	Posted - 2005.12.27 16:01:00 - [82] Edited by: bsspewer on 27/12/2005 16:03:19 Ok, here's my fifteen cents worth. Firstly, you lieing to him about how much your clone costs and how many implants you have was an insult to his intelligence. Anyone who can fly a zealot knows how to look up a characters employment history and note how long they have been playing, and therefore can make a reasonable assumption on how many skillpoints you have. Based on this assumption they can set a price on your head. It would have been differant if you offered 30m, because that sounds like a reasonable toll. Yet you decided to imply that he was an idiot and wouldn't be able to tell you were worth more then 3m. Yay on him. While I don't condone killing after ransoming, there are always justifications for peoples actions. You were an idiot, he was tactful, you loose. You also claim your post on this forum was not to whine and receive sympothy, but to humiliate him for his actions. You lie a second time. Your quick, constant, and defending replies show that you are feeling like a battered dog in a corner. When he podded you he knew, as anyone would, that you would try tricks to "smear" his name. He was prepared by not caring. How do you smear a pirate's name anyways? The worse you talk of someone the more they become a pirate. For those of you asking he be kicked from the corp, I hope he won't be, and will be sending the directors emails praising them for his actions. An obvious habitual liar does not deserve the right to be trusted, nor should he expect trust from anyone in return. Those others that claim you will not be doing business with him again, I have a question for you. When have you dealt business with him in the past? Any pirate knows about alt characters for this very reason. You don't conduct business with obvious bad business reps. You always have someone who appears innocent and trusting to do that. It's all about being evil. If anything, Jane was the idiot here. And for every dollar sent to Jane for her loss, I will send a dollar to Damious.
Tariq Steel	Posted - 2005.12.27 16:08:00 - [83] That's the way it goes these glorious days in the Eve universe. That's why I changed my bio explaining my view on ransoming: I DON'T PAY THEM. Paid one once and still got my ship destroyed and podded. So now I'm an industrialist with an itchy trigger finger. Heck, I even send my Beserkers IIs at 'roids if they glance at me wrong.
Jane Vladmir	Posted - 2005.12.27 16:10:00 - [84] Originally by: Mira deVorsha I am not dents alt. I am just finding the thread hilarious. You have someone who got smacked in revenge thinking they were in fact being smart and getting away with a pittance. Then coming on here demanding they were the victim. Its like a carebear coming on saying its unfair that someone attacked them without thier permission first. I'm done.. but keep posting about how he dun you wrong. That post shows about about as much intellect you have.
Xendie	Posted - 2005.12.27 16:12:00 - [85] he agreed to a toll to let jane pass. he didnt honor his word. =he is scum. i hear all day how pirates are scum and yap-yap-yap and so one. yet it is always alliance members and certain merc corps with inflated airfilled ego brains the size of jupiter who cannot keep one single word. the only ones who actually are capable of keeping their words about such a matter if agreed upon is -V- alliance when LD is in charge. the rest of the alliance gutter is filled with lots of crap mental persons like Damious. and they are the same people who are crying and sending the pirates hatemail everyday. a man/woman/trans is only as good as his word is worth. the circumstances doesnt matter, if you cant keep the word dont give the word either. -------- Originally by: F'nog This would be great, because lag is not at all a problem currently.
Goberth Ludwig	Posted - 2005.12.27 16:16:00 - [86] Jane since your not a noob, I am sure u know how fast anyone thats in an alliance can make 3 mil (about 120 seconds of ratting?) and how good he would look to his mates bringing your corpse back. So yeh, what the PA dude did was lame but unless u sold ur account I cant believe u didnt see this one coming :s - Gob (also known as Admiral Goberius)
sully lang	Posted - 2005.12.27 16:28:00 - [87] wasnt the toll returned to you?
Ardvaark Ratnik	Posted - 2005.12.27 16:35:00 - [88] Heh, this has nothing to do with lying or distrust. What this has to do with is the fact that Jane had killed him a few days earlier and this is RETRIBUTION. If Jane cannot remember who she killed, that is her fault. If I had the chance to do the same, I would. Revenge by hook or crook. Jane, you obviously forgot who you were dealing with, or didn't care who you were killing earlier in the week. People who die and get podded have very long memories. People who do the killing obviously have short memories and this time it cost. Such is life.
Jenny Spitfire	Posted - 2005.12.27 16:45:00 - [89] Originally by: Ardvaark Ratnik Jane, you obviously forgot who you were dealing with, or didn't care who you were killing earlier in the week. People who die and get podded have very long memories. People who do the killing obviously have short memories and this time it cost. Such is life. Hmmm, this reminds me of a RL saying, "When you win a fight, you will be victorious and will never remember about the victory but the person who loses the fight will always remember about the victory until he/she goes into the grave." ---------------- RecruitMe@NOINT!
sully lang	Posted - 2005.12.27 16:47:00 - [90] me thinks its possibly a case of sour grapes a pirate was out pirated by a law biding citizen .beaten at their own dubious profession.

FoRGyL	Posted - 2005.12.27 17:04:00 - [91] Edited by: FoRGyL on 27/12/2005 17:04:49 Originally by: bsspewer Edited by: bsspewer on 27/12/2005 16:08:50 Edited by: bsspewer on 27/12/2005 16:03:19 Ok, here's my fifteen cents worth. Firstly, you lieing to him about how much your clone costs and how many implants you have was an insult to his intelligence. Anyone who can fly a zealot knows how to look up a characters employment history and note how long they have been playing, and therefore can make a reasonable assumption on how many skillpoints you have. Based on this assumption they can set a price on your head. It would have been differant if you offered 30m, because that sounds like a reasonable toll. Yet you decided to imply that he was an idiot and wouldn't be able to tell you were worth more then 3m. Yay on him. While I don't condone killing after ransoming, there are always justifications for peoples actions. You were an idiot, he was tactful, you loose. You also claim your post on this forum was not to whine and receive sympothy, but to humiliate him for his actions. You lie a second time. Your quick, constant, and defending replies show that you are feeling like a battered dog in a corner. When he podded you he knew, as anyone would, that you would try tricks to "smear" his name. He was prepared by not caring. How do you smear a pirate's name anyways? The worse you talk of someone the more they become a pirate. For those of you asking he be kicked from the corp, I hope he won't be, and will be sending the directors emails praising them for his actions. An obvious habitual liar such as Jane does not deserve the right to be trusted, nor should he expect trust from anyone in return. Those others that claim you will not be doing business with him again, I have a question for you. When have you dealt business with him in the past? Any pirate knows about alt characters for this very reason. You don't conduct business with obvious bad business reps. You always have someone who appears innocent and trusting to do that. It's all about being evil. If anything, Jane was the idiot here. And for every dollar sent to Jane for her loss, I will send a dollar to Damious. a trs post this is!! My memory is getting more blurry eatch day but werent TRS acctually pirates once? I honestly don't think you where anymore. -out- ********************************************************* Pay or don't!
Josarian Lysandor	Posted - 2005.12.27 17:18:00 - [92] I'm beginning to think some people hate pirates so much that they simply cannot see this as wrong. I think next time anyone tolls them, they should take the money, agree to the toll, then kill them, and give the money back. He made a binding agreement and broke it. Simple as that. ~Victory is the weakness of the enemy. I began as ActiveX, I am no longer. I became Sobeseki Pawi, I will be no longer.
Famine Aligher'ri	Posted - 2005.12.27 17:29:00 - [93] Beginning to think you are Janes alt. Who cares, Janes stupidity. She did it to herself for being a complete utter "Newbie".
Josarian Lysandor	Posted - 2005.12.27 17:31:00 - [94] I'm not an alt noobtard. ~Victory is the weakness of the enemy. I began as ActiveX, I am no longer. I became Sobeseki Pawi, I will be no longer.
Jane Vladmir	Posted - 2005.12.27 18:06:00 - [95] Edited by: Jane Vladmir on 27/12/2005 18:09:51 What's stupid about paying 3m if he accepted it? It would've been stupid to pay more. I shouldn't have paid him at all by the way he acted. And yes, most of the people here arguing against me are very likely just on his side because they just don't like pirates. EDIT: Originally by: Famine Aligh'eri Beginning to think you are Janes alt. Who cares, Janes stupidity. She did it to herself for being a complete utter "Newbie". On what grounds do you assume she/he's my alt, why are you posting here if you don't care, why do you assume I'm stupid and how do you find me "New" to this game?
bsspewer	Posted - 2005.12.27 18:11:00 - [96] Originally by: Jane Vladmir What's stupid about paying 3m if he accepted it? It would've been stupid to pay more. I shouldn't have paid him at all by the way he acted. And yes, most of the people here arguing against me are very likely just on his side because they just don't like pirates. right. It appears as if he didn't care about the 3m isk only because 3m is chump change. Had you offered an amount that was much closer to or greater then his previous loss, I'm sure he would have reconsidered the idea of podding you. I take his side because I am a pirate, and my philosophy is "I don't give a F***". Stop whining, you are now free of the restriants your implants held on you. Go forth and pirate some more and maybe now you won't have to deal with this issue, as you don't have the implants to worry about.
FoRGyL	Posted - 2005.12.27 18:19:00 - [97] Edited by: FoRGyL on 27/12/2005 18:19:32 Edited by: FoRGyL on 27/12/2005 18:19:06 Originally by: bsspewer Originally by: Jane Vladmir What's stupid about paying 3m if he accepted it? It would've been stupid to pay more. I shouldn't have paid him at all by the way he acted. And yes, most of the people here arguing against me are very likely just on his side because they just don't like pirates. right. It appears as if he didn't care about the 3m isk only because 3m is chump change. Had you offered an amount that was much closer to or greater then his previous loss, I'm sure he would have reconsidered the idea of podding you. I take his side because I am a pirate, and my philosophy is "I don't give a F*". Stop whining, you are now free of the restriants your implants held on you. Go forth and pirate some more and maybe now you won't have to deal with this issue, as you don't have the implants to worry about. U claim yourself as a Pirate is a sad thing(even if u once where) in with your view thats for sure. Btw aren't you still police for bob not pirates? or doing something new now? To show u Mr Pirate! ex A)Hi can I give u 3 mil to pass? B)No give me 40 and u pass! ok or no! get it? Your word is the only thing you got, be as ebil as u want but keep your word if given. -out- Edit : u get it as mu7ch as I can spell! ******************************************************* Pay or don't!
Jane Vladmir	Posted - 2005.12.27 18:22:00 - [98] Edited by: Jane Vladmir on 27/12/2005 18:22:40 Originally by: bsspewer Originally by: Jane Vladmir What's stupid about paying 3m if he accepted it? It would've been stupid to pay more. I shouldn't have paid him at all by the way he acted. And yes, most of the people here arguing against me are very likely just on his side because they just don't like pirates. right. It appears as if he didn't care about the 3m isk only because 3m is chump change. Had you offered an amount that was much closer to or greater then his previous loss, I'm sure he would have reconsidered the idea of podding you. I take his side because I am a pirate, and my philosophy is "I don't give a F***". Stop whining, you are now free of the restriants your implants held on you. Go forth and pirate some more and maybe now you won't have to deal with this issue, as you don't have the implants to worry about. If so he should've said 3m wasn't enough, not fool me and get me to warp to him so he can pod me and send the money back. That's lower than rasoming someone and still popping them.
Goberth Ludwig	Posted - 2005.12.27 18:30:00 - [99] Jane, u'v just been redicoulusly greedy, check previous reply :\ - Gob (also known as Admiral Goberius)
j0sephine	Posted - 2005.12.27 18:31:00 - [100] "I'm beginning to think some people hate pirates so much that they simply cannot see this as wrong. I think next time anyone tolls them, they should take the money, agree to the toll, then kill them, and give the money back. He made a binding agreement and broke it. Simple as that." Well, i like pirates if anything. In this particular case? can't see much wrong with how things went. Jane crying about it for 3 pages straight only makes it more funny. As for the "biding agreement"..? Will Turner: Barbossa, you lying bastard! You swore she'd go free! Barbossa: Don't dare impugn my honor boy! I agreed she go free, but it was you who failed to specify when or where. check the log in opening post. There's never an actual agreement made there. All the guy ever said regarding the offer was "3 mil sounds good". Jane was so eager to save her implants as cheaply as possible, she took it for granted they had the deal... didn't want to risk the guy could change the mind, perhaps? being cheapskate costed her more in the long run. Oh well.

Rasta Rocketman	Posted - 2005.12.27 18:31:00 - [101] As much as it makes me smile to see Jane get podded, it was pretty weak how it was done and I'd be upset too. Not keeping your word after a deal was struck is pretty weak, I don't care how upset you are. _______________________________________________
Famine Aligher'ri	Posted - 2005.12.27 18:44:00 - [102] Originally by: Jane Vladmir Edited by: Jane Vladmir on 27/12/2005 18:09:51 What's stupid about paying 3m if he accepted it? It would've been stupid to pay more. I shouldn't have paid him at all by the way he acted. And yes, most of the people here arguing against me are very likely just on his side because they just don't like pirates. EDIT: Originally by: Famine Aligh'eri Beginning to think you are Janes alt. Who cares, Janes stupidity. She did it to herself for being a complete utter "Newbie". On what grounds do you assume she/he's my alt, why are you posting here if you don't care, why do you assume I'm stupid and how do you find me "New" to this game? PA are not pirates to me. I hate PA just the same. Not on anyones side. Why are you stupid? For assuming he would let you live for ISK. Even if you paid him 200million isk. I think he would of still podded you just the same. Just to say he killed some carebear with 200million worth of implants obviously. IS it his fault for not honoring his word? Well maybe... But who really cares. It's your stupidity in thinking you could trust someone who is HOSTILE to you. Im sorry but that's like rolling into the HOOD and asking some crips to let you keep on walking threw there hood. Then get upset with the crips when they cap you in the legs. Like it MEANS ANYTHING to them in the first place. You're in there hood. Honor among thieves not among strangers who are to weak to begin with. Trust noone.
Maud Dib	Posted - 2005.12.27 18:53:00 - [103] That was pretty lame. Still trusting anybody in EVE is a losing game. Just assume everybody is going to pod you now matter what you give them.
Buraken v2	Posted - 2005.12.27 19:03:00 - [104] Sux 2 be U You lied first, Karma is a beyatch
j0sephine	Posted - 2005.12.27 20:00:00 - [105] "Still trusting anybody in EVE is a losing game. Just assume everybody is going to pod you now matter what you give them." Awww. could never pod you, Maud :< ... well, maybe for really lot of isk ... or something shiny >>;;
Jayd Pike	Posted - 2005.12.27 20:11:00 - [106] @ Jane... Can I have ur stuff
Jane Vladmir	Posted - 2005.12.27 21:22:00 - [107] Originally by: Famine Aligher'ri Originally by: Jane Vladmir Edited by: Jane Vladmir on 27/12/2005 18:09:51 What's stupid about paying 3m if he accepted it? It would've been stupid to pay more. I shouldn't have paid him at all by the way he acted. And yes, most of the people here arguing against me are very likely just on his side because they just don't like pirates. EDIT: Originally by: Famine Aligh'eri Beginning to think you are Janes alt. Who cares, Janes stupidity. She did it to herself for being a complete utter "Newbie". On what grounds do you assume she/he's my alt, why are you posting here if you don't care, why do you assume I'm stupid and how do you find me "New" to this game? PA are not pirates to me. I hate PA just the same. Not on anyones side. Why are you stupid? For assuming he would let you live for ISK. Even if you paid him 200million isk. I think he would of still podded you just the same. Just to say he killed some carebear with 200million worth of implants obviously. IS it his fault for not honoring his word? Well maybe... But who really cares. It's your stupidity in thinking you could trust someone who is HOSTILE to you. Im sorry but that's like rolling into the HOOD and asking some crips to let you keep on walking threw there hood. Then get upset with the crips when they cap you in the legs. Like it MEANS ANYTHING to them in the first place. You're in there hood. Honor among thieves not among strangers who are to weak to begin with. Trust noone. Wrong answer, you're still stupid.
Sheila Vix	Posted - 2005.12.27 21:29:00 - [108] Something I hear often from the 'lawless' people in Eve community, adapt or leave , cry me a river, build a bridge and get over it! You cost him 40mil You lied about your implants You insulted him by only offering 3mil as a 'toll' ...and lastly... At least he gave you your 3mil back I know someone who, in his first few month's, in low sec between high sec, lost his new bc ship to you, you did not even bother to ransom, and you certainly did not get any decent mods from the kill. Just a plain grief kill, theres no honour in that, and theres no honour in your whining.
Caithdien	Posted - 2005.12.27 23:23:00 - [109] Most pathetic thing in existance is a PvPer who wants to be treated as a carebear when things don't go their way. All the dissembling about it is pretty transparant, learn your lesson, don't trust him next time, and stop whining about how he damaged your poor little psyche. A liar crying about being lied too, sheesh, kids these days.
Lord Spidey	Posted - 2005.12.27 23:33:00 - [110] It's wrong to accept a toll then pod. The price is not the issue. Jane's comments about having no implants is not the issue. The fact that someone double crossed Jane is the issue. I hope this cleared it up for some of you who seem to be having confusion with this very simple thread

Caithdien	Posted - 2005.12.27 23:39:00 - [111] Originally by: Lord Spidey It's wrong to accept a toll then pod. The price is not the issue. Jane's comments about having no implants is not the issue. The fact that someone double crossed Jane is the issue. I hope this cleared it up for some of you who seem to be having confusion with this very simple thread Lets put it in a real life scenario for a moment, when the cops set up a sting organization, are they wrong to have tricked the criminals? From the sounds of it, Jane deserves to be double crossed. Jesus, for people who use the excuse that PvP is part of the game as a defense for their actions, you all seem rather whiny about people using their own version of a trap, which is also part of the game by the way, to catch you. Live by the sword, die by the sword. -Caithdien
Marie Sklodowska	Posted - 2005.12.27 23:42:00 - [112] Originally by: Jane Vladmir Wrong answer, you're still stupid. Wow, that is such an intelligent and well thought out response. How can anyone argue someone who has a clear grasp of the english language. www.eve-search.com \| www.eve-files.com
Vicious Ellipse	Posted - 2005.12.28 00:59:00 - [113] lolz... I love carebear pirates
HUGO DRAX	Posted - 2005.12.28 01:01:00 - [114] Who the hell ransoms a pod of a vet for 3million lol, you should have sensed a disturbance in the force when he agreed. Dont just complain, do something. Channel macrointel meet with likeminded folks, spottings,intel
Icee Cold	Posted - 2005.12.28 01:09:00 - [115] jane, not only did you get wtf pwned here, but you did it to yourself. that makes it like 100x better. lol at all the tears you have cryed over this. your spider sense should of been tipped off that he would accept your 3mil. come on 3 mil? i can get that in one BS spawn. you got beat by your own game here...little something called Texas law. lol
Skyscorcher	Posted - 2005.12.28 01:12:00 - [116] I might have been at least like "oh that is too bad," if you hadn't added in the part where you lied about the implants. If you lie and then someone else lies back to you, you probably shouldn't act surprised about it. ______________________________ PLAY LIKE YA GOT A PAIR!
Blind Man	Posted - 2005.12.28 01:20:00 - [117] Edited by: Blind Man on 28/12/2005 01:20:58 I scroll down and see, Damious: "Pheonix Alliance" , sorry, no surprise here. Thats really low. Killing people after they pay is pointless and dishonurable
Voltron	Posted - 2005.12.28 01:47:00 - [118] Pretty *** if you ask me Volt
Copine Callmeknau	Posted - 2005.12.28 06:47:00 - [119] Originally by: Jane Vladmir Jane Vladmir > You offering a toll? Damious > what you have in mind? Jane Vladmir > 3m to pass through in my pod. Arrogant insult to Damious' intelligence. Originally by: Jane Vladmir Damious > you must hav more implants than that cinse you're offering toll Damious > yes? Jane Vladmir > Nope, just if I get podded I'll get sent to the other side of EVE, and I'm an outlaw so it takes time to move around, you see. Massive lie. Originally by: Jane Vladmir Jane Vladmir > My clone costs 4m, I'm offering you 3m to pass through. Likely lie. You send pathetic amount of money, and get killed by someone you podded a while ago. He lied about letting you pass, you lied on multiple occasions about your circumstances. You are twice the scumbag he is, and that's not taking into account that he refunded the money you lost (You didn't lose any implants, you said you don't have any, remember?). Glad to see you brought a big enough bottle of whine to share with the waaahmbulance crew that are on the way to pick you up. ------- With five million sheep in this army I seem to be the only one fit to command
BlackDog Rackh'am	Posted - 2005.12.28 07:38:00 - [120] If anything,this is THE forum for recognizing that EvE is a PvP game,a game about obtaining an advantage and killing the enemy. People have massive respect for organisations who pull off undercover jobs all the time,like GHSC and BoB,and i must say i have to admire the way it's done as well. If i want to kill someone,i try doing it in a way that will minimise my risks,by striking a crippling initial blow,outnumbering the enemy,or lying,simply because: a)it's the smart thing to do and b)anything goes unless it's against the EULA. It's a game about lawless space and not some chivalrous folks riding on horses,so honor doesn't cut it here. Pirates tend to honour ransoms because of roleplay or simply because it's bad for their business not to,they are needed in this game and well done to them. However,if player A does't care about the ingame moral aspect that player B has formulated in his head,then tough luck. Once again,adapt and move on. I have assisted in a ransom once and we kept our word,i have never interfered in 1vs1's,and i doubt that makes me a better player,it's just my personal preference to play this way. However,i don't trust anyone who's not blue,green,or purple on my overview and i never take up 1vs1's myself. Just because i play this way doesn't make it mandatory for the rest of EvE to follow. Much in the same way,your moral code means something to some people in this thread and nothing to others. There's no wrong or right here,there's only personal choice. Originally by: Caithdien a PvPer who wants to be treated as a carebear when things don't go their way And that line above sums it all up pretty nicely.

Ricdic	Posted - 2005.12.28 07:45:00 - [121] Jane I have to ask. When you killed Damious a few days earlier, did you bother trying to ransom him at all? I imagine, if you had ransomed his pod, and upheld the deal, that he would have returned the favour to you in this instant. You both lied, so calling him dishonest is beside the point. As a full-time pirate, I find it amazing that you dont have insta's for your hangouts... I find the only way to have a ransom work these days, is for the trust to be both on pirate and carebear. If you know the pirate is at your gate, and you know you are going to be forced to fight, you need a compromise. I have found that a 50% now / 50% later policy works well. Pirate charges 30 mil to spare your life, and you pay 15mil before arriving at his location. Pay remaining 15mil upon jumping out of the system. Under this guideline, both pirate and carebear have to put trust on each other. Has worked fine for me in all of my encounters. In this situation, it isnt that simple. Carebear (generalised non-pirate) got revenge on pirate. An Eye for an Eye per se. Normally pirates use deceit to snare carebears, and this has been happening for years. Finally, a carebear uses the same tactic to snag a pirate (who screwed him over previously no-less), and the pirate complains.... Now you know how the carebears feel from the upteen times it has been done to us. I think not bothering to ransom your target is just as bad as ransoming and then shooting. One of my accounts was podded in low-sec a couple of months ago, holding 800 mil worth of implants. Because the pirate had conversation auto decline, I could not convo to tell him I would pay 100 million isk to let my iteron (filled with torps) pass through. ------------------------------------------ Dreadnought Production INC is recruiting Join DPI Channel Or Visit (IGB) http://www.mmorpg-online.net/intro.html
Xendie	Posted - 2005.12.28 07:55:00 - [122] real men are man enough to keep their word nomatter how insignificant the amount of isk that was involved. point is that damious agreed and then broke it=he is scum. and pirates in this game got more "honor" in their words then any other ppl as it seems. -------- Originally by: F'nog This would be great, because lag is not at all a problem currently.
FoRGyL	Posted - 2005.12.28 08:04:00 - [123] Originally by: Xendie real men are man enough to keep their word nomatter how insignificant the amount of isk that was involved. point is that damious agreed and then broke it=he is scum. and pirates in this game got more "honor" in their words then any other ppl as it seems. Word! Will never listen to that guy if he broke his word once. Reqruiting/selling/trading no matter what it is and espacially not in any kind of agreements and that is what he has sent out with his behavior and obviously want to be treated the same. -out- ********************************************************* Pay or don't!
Guntaro	Posted - 2005.12.28 08:08:00 - [124] Jane, I don't like to think that you now feel you have to play this game by not trusting anyone ever again because of this experience. You can trust, but it must be "Trust but verify " Next time ask the player to leave the gate area after reaching an agreement to let you pass.
Kinsy	Posted - 2005.12.28 08:43:00 - [125] I and my old alliance mates sparred with Jane and co. quite a lot a while back. Theyre not a bunch of noob pirates - they might snipe off the gate, but get a covert on them and they'll warp out, refit, and come straight back guns blazin'. I'm glad someone's got your corpse, but it sucks you died after an 'agreement' was reached, no matter how lame it was.
Jane Vladmir	Posted - 2005.12.28 09:31:00 - [126] I thank Kinsy for the kind words and everyone who's contributed to this thread with their own outthought points of views. To answer an earlier thread, no I did not offer his covert op nor his former pod a ransom. Nor did I remember I had killed him earlier as, not trying to be egoistic, I kill and get killed alot every day. I'm the third most podded player in eve with Mishima, another member of my corporation on the top just because we actually try to fight at every given chance. I've come up with my own way to deal with this, which should prove fun if successfully done, if his CEO or the PA CEO won't deal with this situation. Thanks again for posting those who put some good thought before they posted.
Ras Blumin	Posted - 2005.12.28 09:45:00 - [127] Both of you lied. Lying is bad. p - l - u - r
Jane Vladmir	Posted - 2005.12.28 10:28:00 - [128] Originally by: Ras Blumin Both of you lied. Lying is bad. My lies didn't affect him.
Avon	Posted - 2005.12.28 10:45:00 - [129] My word is my reputation. You can take my ships. You can take my isk. You can take my clone. You can never take my honor, only I can surrender that. If you make a deal, stick to it. If you can't, don't make the deal. ______________________________________________ The Battleships is not and should not be a solo pwnmobile - Oveur
Christopher Multsanti	Posted - 2005.12.28 11:54:00 - [130] Yet when we see a deal broken here we are ok with it. All I say is that I would'nt have done what this guy has done, but each to their own as they say, everyone has a different set of rules when it comes to eve. Death and Glory in H-PA

Mira deVorsha	Posted - 2005.12.28 12:40:00 - [131] Originally by: Christopher Multsanti Yet when we see a deal broken here we are ok with it. All I say is that I would'nt have done what this guy has done, but each to their own as they say, everyone has a different set of rules when it comes to eve. Whats even funnier is Jane claiming that she would keep the money if it was her that scammed it.
Black Lotus	Posted - 2005.12.28 16:37:00 - [132] Originally by: Xendie and pirates in this game got more "honor" in their words then any other ppl as it seems. Aint that the truth. Ive never once broken my word in this game, and i take pride in that. Honesty is priceless. Also, even tho it is just a "game", i think honor still reflects peoples personalities in RL. I accept the fact that there isnt alot of people to trust in this game, but i dont let that dictate my own actions, EVER. Alot of times we've had several indies camped, waiting to pass a gate. Sometimes upto 2 hours. Ussually at this point, i tell them to go thro. 2 reasons: 1) they arnt warping into our bubble while its up. 2) why hinder someones gameplay, when u arnt gonna get to kill them anyways. Ive never had an indy turn down my offer, and ive never broken my offer. Building a reputation with as many people as possible does go alot farther then alot of people think in this game.
Shyalud	Posted - 2005.12.28 16:42:00 - [133] Were you in PA space when this happened? If you were you should have been killed regardless of the tactic. If you are in their space and not blue, you're goo. Being a known pirate in my territory would make you KOS without exception and I would have dismissed any pilot who let you go for any reason. What I am most surprised about is that you expected anyone you pirated to honor anything with you. The "oh, he lied to me" argument is foolish. Regardless of the fact that you also lied to him, you killed him in the very recent past, what do you expect? What in the world would you think he was thinking when he accepted a pitiful 3mil ransome in 0.0 (I assume) from an enemy, and pirate who had just killed him. Honor argument aside, that's just dumb. I give Damious props for giving your money back. I'm not sure I would have, if only to rub some salt in the wound. Here's a joke for ya: Joey is in the sandbox and Johny comes up and says "hey Joey, I know I just punched you in the mouth but If I give you this lolipop can I play in your sandbox?" Joey says "Sure", takes the loli, kicks Johny's a**, and says, "Gee Johny, you ain't too bright, are ya?"
Black Lotus	Posted - 2005.12.28 16:57:00 - [134] Originally by: Shyalud Were you in PA space when this happened? How does that matter? When we camp eidi, or any system we choose to camp. Thats OUR gate, until we log, or OUR gate gets taken over. It means nothing to me that the alliance map in corp forums says its f-e space. It's my space while i control it. Just because i control the space, does not give me a free dishonor card. If im dishonorable, then i will have to live with my actions, and the reputation that comes with it. It doesnt suprise me one little bit that u or any f-e would support being dishonorable. I think the honorable people from f-e have long since left. Robotek Hybrid. We hate eachother, pure enemies, and we will smack the hell out of eachother in local. I dont like him, he doesnt like me. BUT he still honored our 1v1, and he couldve had people come help him at anytime throughout the fight. But he didnt, and he lost. But he gained my corp's respect. Which is worth more then any ISK. (still hate him tho :P). Its to bad guys like this wernt still in ur alliance. But its also no wonder that they left.
Josarian Lysandor	Posted - 2005.12.28 17:42:00 - [135] Originally by: Shyalud I give Damious props for giving your money back. I'm not sure I would have, if only to rub some salt in the wound. Well you are Celestine Prophecy after all. Same corp who kills random people for no good reason...yet calls itself anti pirate. ~Victory is the weakness of the enemy. I began as ActiveX, I am no longer. I became Sobeseki Pawi, I will be no longer.
Trey Azagthoth	Posted - 2005.12.28 17:55:00 - [136] Normally I would be disgusted at what happened, but since its Jane, I think a big ROFL is in order....
Shyalud	Posted - 2005.12.28 18:01:00 - [137] Edited by: Shyalud on 28/12/2005 18:05:18 Originally by: Black Lotus Originally by: Shyalud Were you in PA space when this happened? How does that matter? When we camp eidi, or any system we choose to camp. Thats OUR gate, until we log, or OUR gate gets taken over. It means nothing to me that the alliance map in corp forums says its f-e space. It's my space while i control it. Just because i control the space, does not give me a free dishonor card. If im dishonorable, then i will have to live with my actions, and the reputation that comes with it. It doesnt suprise me one little bit that u or any f-e would support being dishonorable. I think the honorable people from f-e have long since left. Robotek Hybrid. We hate eachother, pure enemies, and we will smack the hell out of eachother in local. I dont like him, he doesnt like me. BUT he still honored our 1v1, and he couldve had people come help him at anytime throughout the fight. But he didnt, and he lost. But he gained my corp's respect. Which is worth more then any ISK. (still hate him tho :P). Its to bad guys like this wernt still in ur alliance. But its also no wonder that they left. Very simplistic view. Of course it matters. PA claims their space, any non PA or non PA sanctioned pilot in their territory is a threat to their sovereignity. Pirates camping gates whithin claimed space is a very real threat that must be countered. If you don't like it, don't go there. Any known pirate operating in the Alliance territory is understandably KOS and would be daft to assume any of the residents wouldn't place them KOS. Your honor argument is moot, you attack me and my integrity as a means to argue your point rather then addressing the point. The claimant of this wrong has endorsed the same activity on a different thread when it didn't happen to her. Honor is universal, not applied when and where you like. Your lack of understanding of honor is evident. An eye for an eye, I say. Another person brought RL into it earlier. Well, in rl, there are often "muggers" in low security parts of cities. The lack of police around doesn't make it right for these "muggers" to steal from people just becouse they should know it's a dangerous area. Jane says she doesn't ransome, she just kills, the only point of that is to take their goodies. That's mugging, rolling, or more simply put, theft. Inherintly dishonorable. Dishonorable people deserve to be treated in kind. If you want to pirate, fine, do it. But don't cry when things don't go your way. As for Sobaseki Pawi, you went afk while in a noob corp sitting in the middle of war. You were shot as a spy, after several convo's, by my pilot, to establish your identity went unanswered. Get over it, you lost a frig.
Shyalud	Posted - 2005.12.28 18:43:00 - [138] Originally by: Josarian Lysandor Originally by: Ioudas Iskariotes I actually find it kind of amusing that certain amounts of dishonesty are acceptable while others are not. There is dishonesty and there is dishonor. dishonorable adj 1: lacking honor or integrity; deserving dishonor; "dishonorable in thought and deed"; "a dishonorable discharge" [syn: dishonourable] [ant: honorable] 2: deceptive or fraudulent; disposed to cheat or defraud or deceive [syn: dishonest] [ant: honest] 3: not bringing honor and glory; "some mute inglorious Milton here may rest" [syn: inglorious] [ant: glorious] 4: not adhering to ethical or moral principles; "base and unpatriotic motives"; "a base, degrading way of life"; "cheating is dishonorable"; "they considered colonialism immoral"; "unethical practices in handling public funds" [syn: base, dishonourable, immoral, unethical] 5: morally unacceptable; "the dishonorable conduct of trusted men" [syn: dishonourable]
Josarian Lysandor	Posted - 2005.12.28 21:11:00 - [139] Originally by: Shyalud Edited by: Shyalud on 28/12/2005 18:54:16 Edited by: Shyalud on 28/12/2005 18:49:14 Originally by: Josarian Lysandor Originally by: Ioudas Iskariotes I actually find it kind of amusing that certain amounts of dishonesty are acceptable while others are not. There is dishonesty and there is dishonor. dishonorable adj 1: lacking honor or integrity; deserving dishonor; "dishonorable in thought and deed"; "a dishonorable discharge" [syn: dishonourable] [ant: honorable] 2: deceptive or fraudulent; disposed to cheat or defraud or deceive [syn: dishonest] [ant: honest] 3: not bringing honor and glory; "some mute inglorious Milton here may rest" [syn: inglorious] [ant: glorious] 4: not adhering to ethical or moral principles; "base and unpatriotic motives"; "a base, degrading way of life"; "cheating is dishonorable"; "they considered colonialism immoral"; "unethical practices in handling public funds" [syn: base, dishonourable, immoral, unethical] 5: morally unacceptable; "the dishonorable conduct of trusted men" [syn: dishonourable] Many out there consider pirateing a legitimate career. I don't. I feel it's dishonorable and desrving of dishonor. That being said, this is a game, where you get to do such things as you see fit. You get to play as you like, but, having chosen a dishonorable profession, don't try to take the high road when it doesn't work for you. If you are willing to endure the hatred of other players who become victims of your pleasure, then by all means, have a blast. But saying that it's ok for me to do as I like as long as I keep my word is rediculous. I think you and your corp are dishonorable. All I have to base it on is my limited experience with you, but that's all I need. ~Victory is the weakness of the enemy. I began as ActiveX, I am no longer. I became Sobeseki Pawi, I will be no longer.
Shyalud	Posted - 2005.12.28 21:18:00 - [140] Beleive whatever you like, my pilots made every attempt to identify what appeared to be a noob spy and you didn't respond. This doesn't win an argument and your thoughts about my corp are inconsequential to the topic and to me.

Josarian Lysandor	Posted - 2005.12.28 21:21:00 - [141] Originally by: Shyalud Beleive whatever you like, my pilots made every attempt to identify what appeared to be a noob spy and you didn't respond. This doesn't win an argument and your thoughts about my corp are inconsequential to the topic and to me. I hate liars, and the more you do it, the worse I think about y'all. You were either lied to about the situation or it was a lie from the start. In any case, what is done is done, but I think it's funny you can talk about dishonor. ~Victory is the weakness of the enemy. I began as ActiveX, I am no longer. I became Sobeseki Pawi, I will be no longer.
Rugli	Posted - 2005.12.28 22:07:00 - [142] Edited by: Rugli on 28/12/2005 22:12:56 Damious, I go sen yur shib flying yes and I go kilen it. you go in a Ruglis GOS lisd and I go kilen jor pod end a shib alatim
Damious	Posted - 2005.12.29 04:34:00 - [143] Originally by: Rugli Edited by: Rugli on 28/12/2005 22:12:56 Damious, I go sen yur shib flying yes and I go kilen it. you go in a Ruglis GOS lisd and I go kilen jor pod end a shib alatim I am immensely glad for you telling me this incomprehensible blabber Anyway, I thank you all for dragging this subject for n-1 amount of posts it really needed (I appreciate all posters and respect them minus the very first one nand other bearing same name, vary nice and educative reading). The matter of fact is Jane is pretending or trying to impose on me some honor rules I don't adhere to as far as enemies of my corp or alliance go. If you are my enemy, expect worst treatment and most tricky stuff pulled on you as possible. After all, all wars in RL have no real rules, Geneva convention being universally ignored 'behind the scenes'. Seriously who would trust my face???: My latest Pic So, it all was fun and let me comment on factual events that took that night: (Jane was logging in and off for about 8h now, hello!, she must have lots to lose for peeking into system to make sure she is not nailed. Perfect situation she thinks once only one dude in system finally after hours of 20+ plus there plus bubbles) Jane Vladmir > 3m to pass through in my pod. (hmm, 8h of logging in and out, must be probly pretty valuable... What were you doing meantime? Hauling on other char for you alt account?) Damious > you must hav more implants than that cinse you're offering toll Damious > yes? Jane Vladmir > My clone costs 4m, I'm offering you 3m to pass through. (I think she forgot to apply x5 multiplier here if I was a pirate. Char born on 12/2003 with 4mil clone, hahaha. I would not let her by no matter what ISK anyway, 3mil just made sure I would not think about it twice granted my recent loses. Revenge has its price, but it is waaaaay higher than that) Damious > anyway, 3m sounds good Jane Vladmir > Allright, sending. Damious > got it Damious > bye (I honestly think Jane is not original Jane. I mean who would trust your enemy in this respect?. I would request enemy logging off and paying him another such amount as I just did after I pas). Anyway, the moment this pirate falls for trap, no idea why... when I am camping anywhere I make sure to have +198au SSs (I know it is currently limited to +- 5au out of plane but you never know when CCP changes that) and multiple insta warp in BMs) After that I warped to the gate at 15km and he still popped me. I had implants worth around 200m. I re-convo him and here's what I got. (man, omfg, bigo!) I paid you back your toll, the AMOUNT YOU ESTIMATED WOULD PAY OFF YOUR SUFFERING IN CASE OF PODDING = buy them back for that. enough said on this subject. The only person you outtricked is you. Cheers and please try to get me, I will enjoy another podding of yours. I was born this way.
Tide Runner	Posted - 2005.12.29 05:03:00 - [144] Edited by: Tide Runner on 29/12/2005 05:04:17 Just want to say one thing: Jane......... you were in a system, safe, probably in a safespot, and other people were camping it.. umm riight, anndd... YOU COULDN'T ESCAPE??? ahaha man that is the lamest story ever.. i mean i'm not a game fanatic, i play eve to a moderate extent and still i made my way through blocades, bubbles, camps and even freaking hundreds of battleships blowing the s**t out of each other. If u cannot outrun a single ennemy even if he has friends then no pitty for u love... In the future 1: Use your imagination, not a textbook scam like tolls 2: Do not trust anyone in 0.0. REMEMBER: I would pod you for NO REASON just because I simply cannot be certain that you wouldn' do it either. THAT IS THE ESSENCE OF EVE I'm sorry
Trey Azagthoth	Posted - 2005.12.29 05:40:00 - [145] Damious, can I have Jane's corpse please?
Jane Vladmir	Posted - 2005.12.29 07:32:00 - [146] Originally by: Tide Runner Edited by: Tide Runner on 29/12/2005 05:04:17 Just want to say one thing: Jane......... you were in a system, safe, probably in a safespot, and other people were camping it.. umm riight, anndd... YOU COULDN'T ESCAPE??? ahaha man that is the lamest story ever.. i mean i'm not a game fanatic, i play eve to a moderate extent and still i made my way through blocades, bubbles, camps and even freaking hundreds of battleships blowing the s**t out of each other. If u cannot outrun a single ennemy even if he has friends then no pitty for u love... In the future 1: Use your imagination, not a textbook scam like tolls 2: Do not trust anyone in 0.0. REMEMBER: I would pod you for NO REASON just because I simply cannot be certain that you wouldn' do it either. THAT IS THE ESSENCE OF EVE I'm sorry This is just pathetic. I didn't know people like you knew how to the forums work.
Jane Vladmir	Posted - 2005.12.29 07:44:00 - [147] This is my closing statement on this post. If I were in his shoes and would've breached the toll terms and he'd be the one sh***ing over my name on the forums all of the ones on his side now would be on his side on that particular post, even though we were talking about the same case. The single reason they're posting here in his favor is the fact that they don't like me, or that they don't like player pirates in particular. Some of them I've personally hurt by either killing them, or as in Trey's situation, shown my superiority. What Damious did was wrong and should be frowned upon, if everyone did business like he did ransoms wouldn't be part of the game and less people would play the game. Now if there's a Forum Operator reading this you can lock this thread as I didn't create it to start flame wars between pirates and carebears.
Agricola Augusta	Posted - 2005.12.29 07:53:00 - [148] Originally by: Jane Vladmir This is my closing statement on this post. If I were in his shoes and would've breached the toll terms and he'd be the one sh***ing over my name on the forums all of the ones on his side now would be on his side on that particular post, even though we were talking about the same case. The single reason they're posting here in his favor is the fact that they don't like me, or that they don't like player pirates in particular. Some of them I've personally hurt by either killing them, or as in Trey's situation, shown my superiority. What Damious did was wrong and should be frowned upon, if everyone did business like he did ransoms wouldn't be part of the game and less people would play the game. Now if there's a Forum Operator reading this you can lock this thread as I didn't create it to start flame wars between pirates and carebears. I get it, you're Ginger Magician's ALT?
Jane Vladmir	Posted - 2005.12.29 07:56:00 - [149] Originally by: Agricola Augusta I get it, you're Ginger Magician's ALT? Stop smacktalking and spamming.
Copine Callmeknau	Posted - 2005.12.29 08:11:00 - [150] Originally by: Jane Vladmir This is my closing statement on this post. If I were in his shoes and would've breached the toll terms and he'd be the one sh***ing over my name on the forums all of the ones on his side now would be on his side on that particular post, even though we were talking about the same case. The single reason they're posting here in his favor is the fact that they don't like me, or that they don't like player pirates in particular. Some of them I've personally hurt by either killing them, or as in Trey's situation, shown my superiority. You are even more ignorant than I had given you credit for. I haven't been playing long enough to know either him or you. So that's your first theory gone. I'm a pirate, sometimes I ransom, sometimes I blow them up and swipe the loot, sometimes I get blown up or ransomed. I like pirates. I also honour my ransoms unless there is smacktalk. Your behaviour is the equivalant of smacktalk, just because you don't use direct insults doesn't mean you aren't gonna get blown out of space for it. I am on his side because I looked at the facts, the facts are that you blew him up, insulted him and lied twice. You got lied to and podded in return. ------- With five million sheep in this army I seem to be the only one fit to command

bsspewer	Posted - 2005.12.29 08:54:00 - [151] Edited by: bsspewer on 29/12/2005 08:57:37 I vote this thread to be #1 of the funniest threads of 2005! This is such a great read..it has everything. Deals and backstabbing, lies and trickery, whine and cheese. I just looked up the definition of whining, "To utter a plaintive, high-pitched, protracted sound, as in pain, fear, supplication, or complaint." Now it's even funnier imagining jane letting a "high-pitched, protracted sound" when she was podded. haha.. EDIT: I wish my victims would go to the forums and alert me on what i griefed them out of.
Agricola Augusta	Posted - 2005.12.29 09:06:00 - [152] Fan mail 4TW!
Verone	Posted - 2005.12.29 11:37:00 - [153] Well, it shouldn't have happened to be honest. The pilot from PA had no excuse to kill the Warmongers pilot after the conversation that went on in local. It was wrong. Jane offered a toll for her safe passage, something that most gate camping pirates offer their victims before they warp in, when the tables are the other way. The PA pilot accepted, and notified her she was safe to pass. Strange how she was killed after negotiating safe passage, in my opinion, and the opinion of a lot of people I've spoken to regarding the matter, this makes the alliance in question look like no more than a pack of spoiled, vengeful children. It's ironic to see an alliance member, doing exactly what the organisation complains about so much when it happens to their members. It's almost every other day I visit this forum and see allegations of people whom come to the Crime and Punishment forum starting "OMG! insert pirate name here* is dishonorable!!!1 He Killed me after I paid a toll!!11"* type threads. For one thing, If I was running an alliance, and someone behaved in this manner, dishonoring their word, they would be removed from the ranks. There is no excuse for it, regardless of whom is in the crosshair. If Phoenix Alliance members keep this up, politically, and morally it could be very damaging to their organsations future efforts. Who would want to do business with an entity one cannot trust? Think about it PA, and sort the attitudes of your pilots out, before they damage your organisation's credibilty. Bad form on your part.
Ras Blumin	Posted - 2005.12.29 13:15:00 - [154] Originally by: Verone The PA pilot accepted, and notified her she was safe to pass. That never happened imo; Quote: Damious > anyway, 3m sounds good Jane Vladmir > Allright, sending. Damious > got it Damious > bye p - l - u - r
Captin ShadowHawk	Posted - 2005.12.29 14:23:00 - [155] Your a pirate ffs pirates are criminals blowing people ships up and taking their loot. You want honour from people you kill??? Get over yourself and take your losses. Stop crying ffs I for one think Damious is a hero!! Honour, deals to let you through you must be joking right.. you choose to be a pirate now live with it.
Mishima	Posted - 2005.12.29 14:24:00 - [156] Damious is sneaky ever go hev is rele funne :D So not hev maybi hev gotten isk from the Jan Vlodmar he not hev sayan he ken go so he just poddan for he shooten hes shep somtim in ther vas covart-ap! he hef bin foolan en went revange for it LAL! I love x-mas :D
Tophereon	Posted - 2005.12.29 14:46:00 - [157] lol someone suggests kicking Damious of our corp for tricking an enemy??? Damious isn't a pirate, you ransomed yourself!! lol Now accepting ISK to let an enemy out of friendly space....... that would have been dishonest!! Toph.
sully lang	Posted - 2005.12.29 15:06:00 - [158] if what the o/p did was so bad was this action pettitioned by jane? and if so id like to see ccps response .if there was one .ta
Xeios	Posted - 2005.12.29 15:37:00 - [159] How is it that 50% of the replies here cannot understand that this was quite simply NEVER about the money? He wanted you dead, plain and simple the easiest way to get you? To make you think youd be safe passing by, then killing you. He even gave you the fricken money back to show you he wasnt interested in it. I for one think it was an excellent ruse on his part. As many other people have said also, if you are going to make enemies youd better learn to keep notes of them because one day they will come back to pop your pod. Time to wake up an smell the coffee you have alot of enemies out there (random victim comments?) i think perhaps you needed to learn they want some revenge. maybe next time you'll be a little more cautious and if not maybe you'll lose more implants?
Shyalud	Posted - 2005.12.29 15:39:00 - [160] Originally by: Tophereon lol someone suggests kicking Damious of our corp for tricking an enemy??? Damious isn't a pirate, you ransomed yourself!! lol Now accepting ISK to let an enemy out of friendly space....... that would have been dishonest!! Toph. Exaclty. You're pirate code applies to pirates, not to soldiers defending their space. Maybe criminals should readress your code and call it the code of Pirates and their Victims....get some carebear input on it so it's not too one sided. Any pilot that decides they want to wander through alliance controlled territory needs to think about the alliance code of the space your in, "The Pirate's Code" doesn't apply in any alliance controlled space that I am aware of. If you are there, and you're not blue, you're goo. Think about that as part of your decision making process when you head into someone else's territory. The simple action of piracy is wrong, holding someone at gun point and telling them 3m or I kill you is wrong, and it doesn't matter if you honor your word or not, you are still in the wrong. Dishonorable from the start, keeping your word doesn't change that. Damious didn't ask for a ransom, you offered it. He didn't agree to anything, he acknowledged what you said. Then he gave your money back after he popped you. You are wrong Jane, not him. If you want to live the life of piracy, accept the ramifications. Because you have a code, doesn't mean your victim agrees with it.

Tophereon	Posted - 2005.12.29 15:44:00 - [161] Originally by: Shyalud Originally by: Tophereon lol someone suggests kicking Damious of our corp for tricking an enemy??? Damious isn't a pirate, you ransomed yourself!! lol Now accepting ISK to let an enemy out of friendly space....... that would have been dishonest!! Toph. Exaclty. You're pirate code applies to pirates, not to soldiers defending their space. Maybe criminals should readress your code and call it the code of Pirates and their Victims....get some carebear input on it so it's not too one sided. Any pilot that decides they want to wander through alliance controlled territory needs to think about the alliance code of the space your in, "The Pirate's Code" doesn't apply in any alliance controlled space that I am aware of. If you are there, and you're not blue, you're goo. Think about that as part of your decision making process when you head into someone else's territory. The simple action of piracy is wrong, holding someone at gun point and telling them 3m or I kill you is wrong, and it doesn't matter if you honor your word or not, you are still in the wrong. Dishonorable from the start, keeping your word doesn't change that. Damious didn't ask for a ransom, you offered it. He didn't agree to anything, he acknowledged what you said. Then he gave your money back after he popped you. You are wrong Jane, not him. If you want to live the life of piracy, accept the ramifications. Because you have a code, doesn't mean your victim agrees with it. QFT
Kartis Was	Posted - 2005.12.29 15:49:00 - [162] ...I am truly amazed at the endless stupidity of people in this world, in this case, the people who support Jane here. Lemme try an make an analogy (ignore the political overtones, they're strictly unintentional). Let's say there's this KNOWN Palestinian terrorist who's driving an ambulance and he comes to an Israeli checkpoint. He radios one of the guards from a safe distance and says, look, I have an ambulance here and I need to get past as quickly as possible. If I pay you, say, 10,000 dollars cause that's basically what it would cost me to replace the ambulance, will you let me go past? The Israeli checkpoint soldier says, well, that sounds kind of low, you sure you don't have a butt-load of weapons stashed in that ambulance? The terrorist replies, HELL NO! SCOUTS HONOR, NO WEAPONS OF ANY KIND ONBOARD, I SWEAR ON MY MOTHER'S GRAVE! The Israeli says, well, ok, if it's scouts honor and all. The Palestinian drives up to the checkpoint and, yes, you guessed it, gets utterly blasted to charred metal. And sure enough, it turns out that the explosion was about 20 times bigger than it should have been because his ambulance was butt-full of weapons and ammo. Now ask yourself, who, in the ENTIRE world, is going to cry foul? No one. Except maybe in this glorious world of Eve.
Chinsor	Posted - 2005.12.29 15:55:00 - [163] Originally by: Kartis Was Now ask yourself, who, in the ENTIRE world, is going to cry foul? No one. Except maybe in this glorious world of Eve. lol... yea but thats cuz the guy in the ambulence didn't recover from his injuries, and the 10,000 dollar guy is happy ---------------------------------------------
Mishima	Posted - 2005.12.29 15:57:00 - [164] Kartis Was... Agreed. I once ransomed a guy with 30m skillpoints and no clone for 4mil. I asked for the fee. He said yes and that he had 30m sp and no clone, he sent the isk. I said "Darn" and let him go. Why oh why? because i have the decency and it will insure that i can ransom again. I love x-mas :D
Mishima	Posted - 2005.12.29 15:58:00 - [165] oh yeah and americans are stupid, I bet they are the ones on this forum posting the stupid replies, STUPID AMERICANS I love x-mas :D
Nidda Coldone	Posted - 2005.12.29 16:17:00 - [166] There's nothing complicated about this. I don't care if the guy is a pirate, a soldier, a merchant, or a griefer. It doesn't matter, he's shown that his word means nothing. His actions reflect poorly on his corp and PA in my book. I know not to trust them now, and therefore not even bother trying to negotiate or trade with them. Thanks to the OP for the heads up.
Judas Jones	Posted - 2005.12.29 16:19:00 - [167] Edited by: Judas Jones on 29/12/2005 16:21:21 Originally by: Shyalud Originally by: Tophereon lol someone suggests kicking Damious of our corp for tricking an enemy??? Damious isn't a pirate, you ransomed yourself!! lol Now accepting ISK to let an enemy out of friendly space....... that would have been dishonest!! Toph. Exaclty. You're pirate code applies to pirates, not to soldiers defending their space. Maybe criminals should readress your code and call it the code of Pirates and their Victims....get some carebear input on it so it's not too one sided. Any pilot that decides they want to wander through alliance controlled territory needs to think about the alliance code of the space your in, "The Pirate's Code" doesn't apply in any alliance controlled space that I am aware of. If you are there, and you're not blue, you're goo. Think about that as part of your decision making process when you head into someone else's territory. The simple action of piracy is wrong, holding someone at gun point and telling them 3m or I kill you is wrong, and it doesn't matter if you honor your word or not, you are still in the wrong. Dishonorable from the start, keeping your word doesn't change that. Damious didn't ask for a ransom, you offered it. He didn't agree to anything, he acknowledged what you said. Then he gave your money back after he popped you. You are wrong Jane, not him. If you want to live the life of piracy, accept the ramifications. Because you have a code, doesn't mean your victim agrees with it. Truth is told!!! Pirate code donÆt mean squat when you're travelling thro Alliance territory, in Alliance territory, alliance code you live by, and you die by! Besides, thereÆs no honour in most of pirate actions, no matter how much you try and make it, err, more 'romantic' :) ----------------------------------------------- Expect Typo's
Judas Jones	Posted - 2005.12.29 16:25:00 - [168] Originally by: Nidda Coldone There's nothing complicated about this. I don't care if the guy is a pirate, a soldier, a merchant, or a griefer. It doesn't matter, he's shown that his word means nothing. His actions reflect poorly on his corp and PA in my book. I know not to trust them now, and therefore not even bother trying to negotiate or trade with them. Thanks to the OP for the heads up. Are we playing the same version of Eve? Seriously, word means something between friends, between allies and hell even mortal enemies, but where in that entire convo log did he say Jane has safe passage? In fact, in that log it shows Jane lying, both about clone and implant's...so please... stop with this dishonour crap, you would not know honour if it came up and smacked ur main in the face!!! ----------------------------------------------- Expect Typo's
Tophereon	Posted - 2005.12.29 16:39:00 - [169] Originally by: Judas Jones you would not know honour if it came up and smacked ur main in the face!!! LMAO
Nidda Coldone	Posted - 2005.12.29 16:41:00 - [170] Originally by: Judas Jones Originally by: Nidda Coldone There's nothing complicated about this. I don't care if the guy is a pirate, a soldier, a merchant, or a griefer. It doesn't matter, he's shown that his word means nothing. His actions reflect poorly on his corp and PA in my book. I know not to trust them now, and therefore not even bother trying to negotiate or trade with them. Thanks to the OP for the heads up. Are we playing the same version of Eve? Seriously, word means something between friends, between allies and hell even mortal enemies, but where in that entire convo log did he say Jane has safe passage? In fact, in that log it shows Jane lying, both about clone and implant's...so please... stop with this dishonour crap, you would not know honour if it came up and smacked ur main in the face!!! Let me spell this out in short simple points so that you might be able to follow it: 1) I never used the word "honor" or "dishonor" in my post. 2) I could care less what was said or happened prior to the deal being struck. 3) Once a deal had been made (safe passage for a fee) both sides had struck a bargain - a contract. 4) He broke the contract by podding him. I for one am not calling for his corp or PA to to toss him out of the corp. I just like to know whose word I can trust when making a deal, and whose I can't. Frankly I hope they restrict new members of to their corp of only other people whose word means nothing (pirates that break ransom agreements, campers that break passage for fee agreements, traders that break production contracts, etc). Makes it easier to keep track of who not to deal with if they're all in the same basket.

Xendie	Posted - 2005.12.29 16:47:00 - [171] he accepted the money being offered for safe passage=he made a verbal contract. he then broke that verbal contract by podding Jane=untrustworthy. the actions of a member of a corp/alliance does indeed reflect on that corp/alliance as long as that person is in that corp/alliance. so the sum of it all is that if his corp does not want to be known as a trustworthy corp that you can do business with then Phoenix Alliance should ask themselves if they want to be known as a Alliance that you can do business with and trust that they will keep up their end of the bargains they make. in the end this all comes down to trust in peoples words. if one can not trust the word of one member of said alliance then said alliance should take steps to enforce the value of their word. imagine if every pirate in eve now would start ransoming PA pilots and take the money and then pod them and say "suck it up, you got Damious to blame for your podding, go cry for new implants to him" how many cry threads from PA pilots do you think that we would have on these forums claiming dishonorable pirats and such. yet when a pirate post about a dishonorable Alliance pilot and his alliance mates come and helps him spam the thread it is ok? the ransoming and safe passage for isk has worked for a long time pretty well. pirates who has ransomed and then podded has been named and shamed and often kicked from their respective corps for being just "dishonorable". yet when a alliance member does the same "it is ok" ?? this doesnt add up as i personally always have honored the ransoms i have made on PA, infact i would shoot my own corpmates if they dishonored a deal i just made. and the alliance in question has always had free passage when toll has been paid to me. maybe its time to start reevaluate that for all pirates. -------- Originally by: F'nog This would be great, because lag is not at all a problem currently.
Captin ShadowHawk	Posted - 2005.12.29 16:55:00 - [172] FFS he's a pirate in PA space killed his friend. Who cares about the 'bullsht contract' thats got nothing to do with it if he's no buisness being there. Pirates are criminals and they know this therefore if they are in alliance space expect to die at somepoint what ever your circumstances contract honour whatever means fck all. the contract aint worth the paper its written on
Shamis Orzoz	Posted - 2005.12.29 17:07:00 - [173] If you're not a pirate, then I suppose there is no real obligation to hold true to a ransom agreement. But if it makes the victim feel any better, I blew up Damious's Zealot yesterday (or was it sac?) and took all his t2 gear. Shamis
Nidda Coldone	Posted - 2005.12.29 17:12:00 - [174] Originally by: Captin ShadowHawk .... the contract aint worth the paper its written on Exactly our point. Matter of fact you phrased it so nicely that perhaps your alliance, corp, and personal descriptions should be changed to "contracts we make ain't worth the paper its written on". Has a nice ring to it.
Xendie	Posted - 2005.12.29 17:23:00 - [175] Originally by: Captin ShadowHawk Edited by: Captin ShadowHawk on 29/12/2005 17:00:54 FFS she's a pirate in PA space killed his friend. Who cares about the 'bullsht contract' thats got nothing to do with it if he's know buisness being there apart from the activity of pirating. Pirates are criminals and they know this therefore if they are in alliance space expect to die at somepoint whatever your circumstances contract honour whatever means fck all. the contract aint worth the paper its written on good of you to inform the whole eve community that the word of Phoenix alliance isnt worth the paper it is written on. -------- Originally by: F'nog This would be great, because lag is not at all a problem currently.
Rugli	Posted - 2005.12.29 18:01:00 - [176] enyon go smaktelk me CEO end hes shib go dedd!
Jane Vladmir	Posted - 2005.12.29 18:15:00 - [177] Originally by: Shamis Orzoz But if it makes the victim feel any better, I blew up Damious's Zealot yesterday (or was it sac?) and took all his t2 gear. This time it actually does.
Sheila Vix	Posted - 2005.12.29 18:29:00 - [178] The irony of a pirate/griefer being the victim...it makes the mind boogle, almost as badly as when I spell check my posts or lack there off....
Josarian Lysandor	Posted - 2005.12.29 18:45:00 - [179] What everyone defending Damious seems to be Failing utterly to realize is that he NEVER should have agreed in the first place. Yet he did, and then he broke the agreement. All defending him does is let everyone know just how many other people out there will do the exact same thing. ~Victory is the weakness of the enemy. I began as ActiveX, I am no longer. I became Sobeseki Pawi, I will be no longer.
Jacque Matte	Posted - 2005.12.29 19:01:00 - [180] maybe its time to start reevaluate that for all pirates. LOL... Ok, this "ransom" that you make out to be some kind of honorable "business" deal is known as EXTORTION. And there's nothing honorable about it, no matter how some of you try to paint it. And now you threaten people by stating you "may just stop asking for ransom" and just blast away, as some kind of lost privilege? Oh nos! Pirates will now stop handing out vaseline!!! Oh my, what do I do now

Caithdien	Posted - 2005.12.29 20:12:00 - [181] Edited by: Caithdien on 29/12/2005 20:14:30 Originally by: Josarian Lysandor What everyone defending Damious seems to be Failing utterly to realize is that he NEVER should have agreed in the first place. Yet he did, and then he broke the agreement. All defending him does is let everyone know just how many other people out there will do the exact same thing. I don't fail to realize a dang thing, what he did allowed him to accomplish his goal, that of podding his target and getting his revenge. Funny to even see this as such a hot topic in a game where a majority of the players feel it's ok to join a corp just to betray them, steal all their stuff, and then crow about the accomplishment. Stop using honor as a crutch only in situations where it's an asset, and honor could actually mean something. Until then, get over it, there isn't anything more pathetic (I think I've said this before) then a victimizer playing the victim, which is the only thing that the OP was doing here. She felt the need to be comforted about how horrible she was treated, and you felt the need to respond to her in that way. Sad. Edit: typo -Caithdien
Josarian Lysandor	Posted - 2005.12.29 21:41:00 - [182] I did the same thing to KIA when they broke a Duel. Honor is honor is honor. Doesn't matter **** all who you are. You and he may not care, but some people do. And they aren't always going to be blue. Jane may be playing the card simply because it happened and he didn't like it. But you know what they say about that...there are 51 more cards. And one day you might have someone ruin your day after it was arranged that they wouldn't, and on that day your tune will change. Damious proved his word worthless, that is all he did and that is all anyone said he did. Pity he thinks so little of it. And all those corp thieves you seem to think I glorify, get a clue. ~Victory is the weakness of the enemy. I began as ActiveX, I am no longer. I became Sobeseki Pawi, I will be no longer.
j0sephine	Posted - 2005.12.29 23:04:00 - [183] "What everyone defending Damious seems to be Failing utterly to realize is that he NEVER should have agreed in the first place. Yet he did, and then he broke the agreement." Thing is, i don't see him actually agreeing anywhere, there. He tricked Jane into believing there was contract, with well formed response to her offer. Jane was too eager to get away to enforce him actually spell out anything to the effect "yes, we have a deal, you are free to pass and i won't pod you" Has she done it and then got podded? You'd have clear case of broken deal that'd be quite nasty indeed. But she didn't, and all you have at your hand is one player outsmarting the other. Anyone still whining about broken honour, i refer you to the quoted earlier words of professional pirate on the subject ;s
Nee'kita Frist	Posted - 2005.12.29 23:18:00 - [184] Scan the gate next time.
Deja Thoris	Posted - 2005.12.30 01:08:00 - [185] Originally by: Famine Aligher'ri .. Please hush, you proved yourself to be nothing more than a bottom feeder when you started putting up escrow scams. Noone cares about the opinions of a (talentless / tactless) scammer. In this game, your word / reputation is all you have. Yours is now one of a scammer and a person who prolly wouldnt honour a 1v1. I'd biomass such a character tbh.
Jane Vladmir	Posted - 2005.12.30 02:24:00 - [186] Originally by: Nee'kita Frist Scan the gate next time. I did. He was still there but I trusted he'd upfill the contract as I have amongst hundreds of others for 2 years. I didn't seriously expect someone, nor anyone to betray someone like this. I can tolerate corp theft, I can tolerate friendly fire, I can easily tolerate scamming but this is something that not even children do.
Shyalud	Posted - 2005.12.30 03:16:00 - [187] Originally by: Jane Vladmir Originally by: Nee'kita Frist Scan the gate next time. I did. He was still there but I trusted he'd upfill the contract as I have amongst hundreds of others for 2 years. I didn't seriously expect someone, nor anyone to betray someone like this. I can tolerate corp theft, I can tolerate friendly fire, I can easily tolerate scamming but this is something that not even children do. So, aparently the only thing you can't tolerate is getting outsmarted. All the other dasterdly deeds most people hate in this game are ok by you.
Jane Vladmir	Posted - 2005.12.30 03:22:00 - [188] Originally by: Shyalud Originally by: Jane Vladmir Originally by: Nee'kita Frist Scan the gate next time. I did. He was still there but I trusted he'd upfill the contract as I have amongst hundreds of others for 2 years. I didn't seriously expect someone, nor anyone to betray someone like this. I can tolerate corp theft, I can tolerate friendly fire, I can easily tolerate scamming but this is something that not even children do. So, aparently the only thing you can't tolerate is getting outsmarted. All the other dasterdly deeds most people hate in this game are ok by you. Outsmarted is a bad word here, I knew he could betray his word but I sincerely doubted he'd be so stupid as to doing such a bad thing to his name. Since corp thieves are named on the forums, why shouldn't I name his shame?
Agricola Augusta	Posted - 2005.12.30 03:44:00 - [189] Originally by: Jane Vladmir Originally by: Nee'kita Frist Scan the gate next time. I did. He was still there but I trusted he'd upfill the contract as I have amongst hundreds of others for 2 years. I didn't seriously expect someone, nor anyone to betray someone like this. I can tolerate corp theft, I can tolerate friendly fire, I can easily tolerate scamming but this is something that not even children do. Time for someone to subscribe to SWG me thinks!
Hubris	Posted - 2005.12.30 04:50:00 - [190] We would have kicked this guy in a second for doing such a thing. There is no way Shamis or any of the current SNIGG members would stand for a member doing such a thing. Tell you the truth we would probobly pod them into oblivion if they refused to understand what they did was wrong. Word bond honor is really all you have in eve, when you break it down to its most primative social interaction. I guess what i am really missing from all of this, is where does this double standard comes in.?.?.? When pirates don't keep their word the forums turn into a massive flame the pirates fest. But when an alliance member breaks his word its just ok because the other guy was a pirate....... Actions may speak louder than words. But in this case I guess inaction speaks volumes. oh and by the way. Yarrrr.

Icee Cold	Posted - 2005.12.30 05:07:00 - [191] I AM HOLYER THAN THOU!! O RLY? YA RLY! OMG U LIED TO ME LOL! yah i did SORRY!! OMG NOT NICE IM TELLING!! KEKEKE OMG YOU HAVE NO HONOR!
yard dog	Posted - 2005.12.30 05:16:00 - [192] justify his action?? you justify yours . man this ranks as sheer hypocracy .he broke no word made no bond and did not at anypoint state clearly that he wouldent kill you .let it go man let it go . this is after all a fantasy computer game ! and did you pettition this if what he did was so terrible? and if so , what did ccp say , if anything "justifiable tactics" me thinks .
Judas Jones	Posted - 2005.12.30 05:41:00 - [193] Edited by: Judas Jones on 30/12/2005 05:41:27 Originally by: Jane Vladmir This is my closing statement on this post. snip Yes you continue to post, you sir, or mam have no honour!!! Look, you was in there space as I understand it, in there alliance territory, if he had accepted your toll and let you leave un challenged, then not only is he betraying his fellow corpies but his entire alliance, now that WOULD be this honourable. Besides, lets face it, nowehere does he confirm the contract, gurantee ur safety etc...you just assumed, theres an old saying, assumption the the mother of all **** ups! Word integrity etc all mean something in Eve, but like real life, there are levels, for instance my honour means more to me viewed by family and friends than my enemies whom I loate, just as an example. Bahh... tis to early in the AM... ----------------------------------------------- Expect Typo's
Dak Hakin	Posted - 2005.12.30 06:23:00 - [194] Wow... lot of crap to wade through.. I remember seeing posts by carebears and miners "omg I got podded by a piwate and I paid ransom and he still podded me" Ebil piwates response? "Welcome to Eve noob""lol carebears" Suddenly, when one of your own gets podded, its "omgwtf you have no honor u r teh suk" Lets see here... Lemme see if I can find that little shred of sympathy I thought I had for Jane.. Sorry, blew out with the wind, or perhaps washed away with the tears. For the record, I would have podded you just for the insult of a 3 million isk toll. _______________________________________________ If you fear the thorn, do not crave the rose Mr. Grumpy-sour-pus
Icee Cold	Posted - 2005.12.30 07:03:00 - [195] Edited by: Icee Cold on 30/12/2005 07:03:34 Originally by: Dak Hakin For the record, I would have podded you just for the insult of a 3 million isk toll. QFT
Mishima	Posted - 2005.12.30 07:29:00 - [196] Today i tried to ransom a guy and he said 1 sec and surprise surprise he got backup, i podded the guy and warped. because he did this he has insured that EVERYONE in his stupid alliance will be podded and never ransomed, that should be a few bil down the drain. keep it up and get ransoms out of the game. F-E alliance, they have too much honor and too much isk to accept ransoms btw I love x-mas :D
FoRGyL	Posted - 2005.12.30 08:14:00 - [197] Originally by: Dak Hakin Wow... lot of crap to wade through.. I remember seeing posts by carebears and miners "omg I got podded by a piwate and I paid ransom and he still podded me" Ebil piwates response? "Welcome to Eve noob""lol carebears" Suddenly, when one of your own gets podded, its "omgwtf you have no honor u r teh suk" Lets see here... Lemme see if I can find that little shred of sympathy I thought I had for Jane.. S. plz show me ANY of theese threads!¿ No0bs have done that for sure but that the community say it's ok, oh no. but apperantly time changes and peps memory comes from vishes. -out- ********************************************************* Pay or don't!
Sphalerite	Posted - 2005.12.30 08:14:00 - [198] Originally by: Dak Hakin Wow... lot of crap to wade through.. I remember seeing posts by carebears and miners "omg I got podded by a piwate and I paid ransom and he still podded me" Ebil piwates response? "Welcome to Eve noob""lol carebears" Suddenly, when one of your own gets podded, its "omgwtf you have no honor u r teh suk" No respectable pirate would ever say that. Anyone who kills someone after they pay makes it less likely that the next person will pay when I say I won't kill him. As to this thread, PA have once again proven themselves to be untrustable and classless, but Jane was asking for it by offering 3m. "Some rise by sin, and some by virtue fall"
LUKEC	Posted - 2005.12.30 10:33:00 - [199] Man this was twisted. I don't like it TBH, but why do you complain about lying when you lied in first place. HatePeace LoveWar[ATUK] > they ebayed the bs for grain
Stretcher	Posted - 2005.12.30 10:44:00 - [200] Edited by: Stretcher on 30/12/2005 10:45:20 Edited by: Stretcher on 30/12/2005 10:44:38 You guys talk about honour, but it would appear to me that you don't have a clue what it even is. Would it be honourable to allow someone who had been killing your corpmates to pass you by and take money for it? Is that being honourable? Instead, you can get them to come to you, unarmed, willing to give you money and podding them re inflicting some of the loss that they've caused. Plus, how can you be hounerable to someone you don't respect? Someone so stupid as to fly up to a corp they've been killing and expect to pass in a pod. You talk about honour as if it's a one sided thing, that if money changes hands then 'honour' is involved. I don't think many of you have a clue!

Kay Brack	Posted - 2005.12.30 14:50:00 - [201] Iv'e only been playing this game for a month and have been podded once by a pirate asking me for 5 mil extortion. I guess safe passage costs go down as your character ages huh ? My one month in game experience is that you don't use ships and implants you can't afford to loose. Players of this game have the most twisted ideas of honor so never expect that your ideas will be the same as another players. Demanding honor among thieves is pretty funny though imo.
Jane Vladmir	Posted - 2005.12.30 15:27:00 - [202] I'm just going to grief him, f**k what you people think this guy's annoying. He's still sending me eve-mails on how his PA comrats are congratulating him and saying I deserved it.
Shyalud	Posted - 2005.12.30 15:31:00 - [203] Once a pilot agresses me, you are my enemy and you deserve no quarter. I have never agressed anyone for the purpose of extorting money or looting his ship. I feel this is the most dishonorable act in eve. It's not only theft but extortion, too. I have been ransomed, and have never paid. No pirate deserves the isk I earn. If you think you can take me, then try it, but I'll go down fighting. Pirates, get over yourselves. You deserve no honorable treatment.
Shyalud	Posted - 2005.12.30 15:32:00 - [204] Originally by: Jane Vladmir I'm just going to grief him, f**k what you people think this guy's annoying. He's still sending me eve-mails on how his PA comrats are congratulating him and saying I deserved it. You did.
Kartis Was	Posted - 2005.12.30 16:57:00 - [205] àummm, for all of you who have no background in law and who insist that this is a matter of æhonorÆ and that æo myÆ he broke a contract with her, let me explain a few things to you. For a contract to be legal, three things are required: 1.Competency -- Both parties need to have the capacity to enter into a contract, i.e., if youÆre a minor, you canÆt enter into some contracts. Outcome: condition met. 2.Consideration û To be held liable for a contract, one party gives something of value, the other accepts. Outcome: condition met. 3.Mutual Meeting of the Minds û Both parties have to agree on the essentials of the contract including goods offered and obligations required. There is no agreement if one side is, say, joking, or if the object of the contract differs from the understanding of the goods in question, or if there are material mistakes. Outcome: condition NOT met. Let me put it in a nutshell. For all intents and purposes, Jane was scamming Damious and Damious caught her in it. She lied about the parameters of the contract (no implants) and then expected the contract to survive scrutiny. In fact, she was trying to defraud Damious out of a rightful 40 million minimum. ItÆs no different that if Jane were pulling a price sticker swap scam. She brings an I-Pod (pun intended) up to a cash register with a $3.95 sticker on it. The clerk looks at the I-Pod and asks, I donÆt think this the right price. Jane says, sure it is. The clerk says ok and rings her through. Then, when sheÆs arrested outside the door by security, she tries to argue that she had a verbal agreement from the clerk to buy the stated goods at the agreed upon price. PUHLEEEEEEEEEEEEEEES!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! SheÆs nothing but a scam artist whining that her scam didnÆt work. And while IÆm on the topic, let me talk about this æhonorÆ that pirates seem to love to discuss. ItÆs real simple people. Pirates have NO honor at all, itÆs a stupid concept from the get-go. ItÆs like saying rapists have honor. æOh, no, we have honor, we wonÆt *****anyone over 74Æ. But, duh! YouÆre still a rapist you fricking idiot. The only reason pirates worry about this æhonorÆ thing is that they worry people will stop paying ransoms. ThatÆs the way they make isk. If Eve didnÆt allow in-game transfer of isk, pirates would kill every ship, every time, this discussion about honor would never take place. There is NO honor among pirates, they are just afraid of having their isk stream dry up. A discussion about honor by pirates, for GodÆs sake, itÆs the most laughable thing IÆve ever heard. Not to mention a pirate actually having the balls (er, ovaries) to come on these boards and whine publicly about a podding.
Xendie	Posted - 2005.12.30 17:18:00 - [206] Originally by: Kartis Was And while IÆm on the topic, let me talk about this æhonorÆ that pirates seem to love to discuss. ItÆs real simple people. Pirates have NO honor at all, itÆs a stupid concept from the get-go. ItÆs like saying rapists have honor. æOh, no, we have honor, we wonÆt ***anyone over 74Æ. But, duh! YouÆre still a rapist you fricking idiot. The only reason pirates worry about this æhonorÆ thing is that they worry people will stop paying ransoms. ThatÆs the way they make isk. If Eve didnÆt allow in-game transfer of isk, pirates would kill every ship, every time, this discussion about honor would never take place. There is NO honor among pirates, they are just afraid of having their isk stream dry up. A discussion about honor by pirates, for GodÆs sake, itÆs the most laughable thing IÆve ever heard. Not to mention a pirate actually having the balls (er, ovaries) to come on these boards and whine publicly about a podding. you seriously do not have a single clue mr.alt of course it is because of continued business that we pirates keep our deals. if i said to someone i was ransoming who offered me 3mill "3mill seems ok", that would mean that i accepted 3mill as a payment for letting him go. and of course i would keep my word as a man is only as good as his word. you make a deal you stick by it. Damious made a deal and broke it. he is a lamer who are now known to not being able to keep his word. his corp is now known for not rectyfying and enforcing the truthfulness of that corps word. his alliance is now known for not enforcing the truthfulness of his corp and its members. personally i dont care who got podded or for what, the principal is still the same, you make a deal and you stick to the deal. i dunno what kind of planet you think you are on if you think that people will keep trusting him/his corp/his alliance when he cannot keep his word and neither his corp nor his alliance slaps him for it. everything you do in this game reflects on your corp and alliance and it doesnt matter if you dont want it to be like that, it still does. if his corp or alliance wants to be known as deal breakers then good for them. but dont come to these forums crying when some one laughs at you and pods you after he extorted those hard earned iskies from you. you forfeited that right by backing damious and his corp and alliance in thinking that only pirates should keep their words. -------- Originally by:** F'nog This would be great, because lag is not at all a problem currently.
Agricola Augusta	Posted - 2005.12.30 17:35:00 - [207] Originally by: Jane Vladmir I'm just going to grief him, f**k what you people think this guy's annoying. He's still sending me eve-mails on how his PA comrats are congratulating him and saying I deserved it. Now I'm starting to like this girl, this is the exact attitude you should've had after being podded. Afterall it's the exact attitude he had and it brought in results. I say good for you, forget the complaining lock and load find the git and tear him a new exhaust port. I kill for my own twisted pleasure, or because Athene tells me to. So try and make him regret podding you! And if you do waste him please make sure it's a nice slow agonising death, and please post here again telling us. Ahhh I love EVE, revenge really does work and it's so much more fun than turning the other cheek
Exlegion	Posted - 2005.12.30 18:11:00 - [208] Just an honest question to the pirates complaining: Is ransoming, extortioning, podding noobs honorable?

Imaran	Posted - 2005.12.30 18:14:00 - [209] I believe this thread has run it's course, and has simply degenrated into another flame fuelled argument. Please be more constructive, and post in a more mature manner in future. Locked for flaming and trolling. click ~~Property Of Eris~~ ~~Property Of Uly~~ ~~Property Of Kaemonn~~ Property Of Someone...

Shyalud	Posted - 2005.12.30 18:17:00 - [210] Originally by: Xendie Originally by: Kartis Was And while IÆm on the topic, let me talk about this æhonorÆ that pirates seem to love to discuss. ItÆs real simple people. Pirates have NO honor at all, itÆs a stupid concept from the get-go. ItÆs like saying rapists have honor. æOh, no, we have honor, we wonÆt *****anyone over 74Æ. But, duh! YouÆre still a rapist you fricking idiot. The only reason pirates worry about this æhonorÆ thing is that they worry people will stop paying ransoms. ThatÆs the way they make isk. If Eve didnÆt allow in-game transfer of isk, pirates would kill every ship, every time, this discussion about honor would never take place. There is NO honor among pirates, they are just afraid of having their isk stream dry up. A discussion about honor by pirates, for GodÆs sake, itÆs the most laughable thing IÆve ever heard. Not to mention a pirate actually having the balls (er, ovaries) to come on these boards and whine publicly about a podding. you seriously do not have a single clue mr.alt of course it is because of continued business that we pirates keep our deals. if i said to someone i was ransoming who offered me 3mill "3mill seems ok", that would mean that i accepted 3mill as a payment for letting him go. and of course i would keep my word as a man is only as good as his word. you make a deal you stick by it. Damious made a deal and broke it. he is a lamer who are now known to not being able to keep his word. his corp is now known for not rectyfying and enforcing the truthfulness of that corps word. his alliance is now known for not enforcing the truthfulness of his corp and its members. personally i dont care who got podded or for what, the principal is still the same, you make a deal and you stick to the deal. i dunno what kind of planet you think you are on if you think that people will keep trusting him/his corp/his alliance when he cannot keep his word and neither his corp nor his alliance slaps him for it. everything you do in this game reflects on your corp and alliance and it doesnt matter if you dont want it to be like that, it still does. if his corp or alliance wants to be known as deal breakers then good for them. but dont come to these forums crying when some one laughs at you and pods you after he extorted those hard earned iskies from you. you forfeited that right by backing damious and his corp and alliance in thinking that only pirates should keep their words. No, sir, you have no clue. When you commence a dishonorable act (i.e. piracy) you forfeit your honor and are to be treated as dishonorable. Even if he did make a hard and fast deal with the pirate, which he didn't, then he was still within rights by protecting his territory. Once you have pirated a person, you are stupid to think that person will do anything but kill you given the chance. In any great good guy, bad guy movie the antogonist(bad guy) will do anything to get out of dieng, the protagonist(good guy) will do anything to kill him. That's just how it goes. The basic flaw of the argument you pirates make is you fail to realize the inherant dishonor of your actions. I'll repeat, holding someone at gunpoint to extort money is wrong, in game or out. Game mechanics support piracy, as it should, but that doesn't mean the pirates are conducting an honorable act. So, be the bad (evil) guys, but expect to be treated as evil!!



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